#odgers

MR ODGERS: Of course, your Honour. I am just attempting to respond to the proposition that because you know there is something in the suitcase, the element of intention is met. I just – you can see I am struggling with this. I am saying that cannot be enough.

KIEFEL CJ: We know you are struggling, Mr Odgers.

MR ODGERS: I will cease to struggle. I have attempted, manfully, to respond to that.

NETTLE J: That is gender normative, Mr Odgers.

MR ODGERS: Yes. Gender – I have struggled personally – whatever the word is – “person-fully”.

Chinese lanterns and shops straight out of the gold rush years.

Your Honours, a recurring difficulty for criminal defence lawyers in particular is a client who is undoubtedly guilty of something but stubbornly refuses – even in the face of compelling evidence – to admit doing anything wrong.

KIEFEL J: I am just having difficulty understanding why you would say that in the context of negotiations about plea that the prosecutor is talking about a range which would otherwise indicate appealable error. They are not talking to the court, they are talking to the person who is about to plead, for goodness sake.

MR ODGERS: Perhaps the question is better directed to Mr Bromwich, but my understanding - - -

KIEFEL J: No, it is directed to you.

HAYNE J: Either there is a point there or there is not a point, but can we come and grapple with that point?

MR ODGERS: Yes, your Honour. In the light of what your Honours are saying to me - - -

HAYNE J: Just me.

MR ODGERS: I know that, your Honour, but I am sensing a general view.

HAYNE J: Do not do that.

FRENCH CJ: Do not try and guess the vibe. It is terribly misleading.

HAYNE J: Take a simple example. Simplify the numbers. The numbers are 1 in 2000. Assume the relevant population to consider is the population of Sydney. Let us round it out at, what, five million, say?

MR ODGERS: Yes, your Honour.

HAYNE J: Round it out at that. One in 2000 of five million equals what? This is what we are asking the jury to do, Mr Odgers, your are familiar with this, what is the answer?

MR ODGERS: Your Honour, I have not got my calculator with me and - - -

HAYNE J: Never give a lawyer a calculator. That just shows they know where to turn it on.