#narinder hate

HAVING A HANDMADE ANTI-NARINDER POSTER ON YOUR WALL IS KING SHIT

( btw whos ur fave woolhaven lamb? mine is Temi )

temi scares me a little lol but I’m fascinated by her story, especially given her relationship to the games weapon masters (one that, if I recall correctly) leads back to Chemach- a very odd character to place in a mentor role.

I find myself the most interested in Zawa, which is a little bit hard considering we know so little about “The Pretender”. They seem to have a habit of compulsive or reflexive lying- or at least, that’s how I read some of their lines. In my head they weren’t born a lamb but were welcomed into Woolhaven, despite the dangers that becoming a lamb would (eventually?) present. After all, some of the ghosts in Woolhaven resemble creatures that aren’t sheep. Koka has all kinds of crazy horns that resemble those of a four-horned antelope.

Therefore, I like to believe that the “lambs” of Woolhaven are more just a collection of cervids and other herd animals. It wouldn’t be totally out of their character to welcome in something else. Perhaps Zawa is a moth by birth and the mask represents something of an internal crisis?

My interpretation of Zawa’s fate is that they were very loyal to Yngya in life (they were, after all, buried as a disciple and one of the participants in her ritual) but, at the last second, tried to plead to the bishops for their life by arguing that they were not a lamb. It would be a fair reaction in the face of certain death and maybe they thought it would be for the best but the guilt made them a self-defacing compulsive liar in the afterlife. That gives a whole new meaning to the epitaph over their grave: forgiveness and acceptance in spite of (what Zawa thinks of as) a moment of cowardice. Hence, the mask of another animal; it’s an attempt to distance themselves and even punish themselves by rejecting that compassion.

Like I said before I just think the shipping crowd can’t have much to say about Woolhaven- it’s not really the kind of fuel that shipping content can run on given its heavy emphasis on world-building, internal conflicts, generational trauma, and healing. It’s great stuff but just not the kind that lends itself to shipping content.

I mean the Narilamb crowd alone has a huge new obstacle to overcome if they want to make Narilamb content set during or after the update. When I put myself in their shoes I have to deal with the fact that I want to ship these characters together but the events of Woolhaven would do more to drive them apart than anything. If Narinder wants to provide comfort to the Lamb, I would have to deal with the fact that this whole thing makes him look even guiltier, if I want him to be helpful to the Lamb during this ordeal then I have to get around the fact that Woolhaven’s story is about the Lamb’s internal journey to heal and discover their heritage. It’s like how in Frozen 2 Kristoph is like… there… but the story has so little to do with him that his role is laughably small. I wouldn’t know what to do with him- especially with the extra blow to his dignity: not even knowing that Yngya had a trap lying in wait for him. Lollllll

Narinder and the Bishops are irrelevant to this whole arc and I found it a refreshing break. No hate to the other bishops but it’s good to see something totally brand new.

It’s a shame that so much fandom content is based on shipping but I think that the new update has drawn in fanwork of other kinds- explorations of character and themes, writings on how the story develops the game’s world, interpretations on how the Lamb will choose to deal with this new information, etc. Marchosias’ presence alone raises really cool issues and his role as a deuteragonist who challenges us only for him to fall into the same hypocrisy as he fights against- but ultimately takes on- the role of godhood that he hated so much!! So awesome. These feel exactly like the kinds of conflicts the game has always loved asking and playing with.

First, I have NOTHING against what people do in a fandom. I do NOT care if you ship narilamb or whatever the fuck you do with your blorbos. I do not ship it and I don't engage with that content but I'm not here to mock creators' hard work or demand they make me understand why they make it.

I don't like Narinder because of things I felt the game and the canonical material didn't do (or didn't do very well).

Make no fucking mistake tho. I am a hater. I am here to be a hater on the hater website. HOWEVER!! I'm not gonna reblog anyone's posts to bitch about why i don't like it or talk smack about any specific person. I have no intention of targeting anyone in specific or harassing creators. I might complain about what I see as generally held ideas in fandom but none of it is meant to be personal or even a criticism of anything's quality.

For context:

I didn't hate him at first but I was super disappointed that he wasn't, y'know, a wolf. But what the fuck do I know.

I have only briefly played the game on single-player mode. For the most part, my partner and I play a co-op file together (on the Nintendo switch).

I understand that the game started as a very humble project and that there might still be added content in the future. Any criticisms I have of the story so far are just that, criticism of the story so far.

I like the other bishops!! I think they're awesome and they have great characters, flaws and all. I think Narinder is the outlier in terms of writing quality.

Some of my dislike is petty and doesn't stem from anything. Some of it I can support with an actual argument. Again I'm a hater.

Most of my complaints come down to the way he's portrayed in-game. I don't consider headcanons/fanon/fan content to be evidence of his canon personality. (Listen!! I like fanfic and I support artists' license to reinterpret things, but that's not rly what I'm here to bitch and moan about)

I understand that characters have flaws. I'm not an idiot, I promise. But I'm also not required to find characters endearing.

I am willing to hear people out!! But don't hold your breath. I am, after all, a hater.

Why I think he sucks:

The way he attacks his siblings didn't feel like a "crime of passion", so to speak. It feels deliberate, cruel, and calculated- more in line with the image of a cold-blooded sadist than someone who has been deeply hurt and betrayed and is lashing out. He finds amusement in what he's done to them and the game never indicates that he has any regrets about it. (Or, at least, I can't find any textual evidence suggesting that ever did)

When he becomes a follower with higher loyalty, the little things he says to Lamb don't come off as cute to me, they come off as creepy. The devs seemed to have removed special follower missions from Narinder and replaced them with generic dialogue instead. For... whatever reason, some of the things Narinder says include things along the lines of "I love you" or "How's your day going?" It doesn't come off as cute to me and it only succeeds in making him seem creepy and bland. I would really really like special follower quests to be put back so that he doesn't wander around confessing his feelings for me several times a week like a sad old creep with memory problems.

AFTER YOU DO FINISH RESTORING THE BISHOP'S SEVERED BODY PARTS (THAT HE TORE OFF HIMSELF) HE STILL OFFERS VERY LITTLE. This is what sent me over the fucking edge. The other bishops give you rich, emotionally textured dialogue that really makes you understand why they all did what they did and act how they do. It's great writing!! Narinder's own monologue consists of: a reminder of how he was hurt (AGAIN), deflecting blame/explaining why he won't explain himself (THE ONLY THING I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HEAR), a vague sentiment about how times goes on (sure man), concluded by: 'here's this relic'. The relic is admittedly pretty cool but its a total failure to characterize him when the game had a chance.

Speaking of failing to characterize him!!! I have no idea what motivates him. What does he want?? Why did he start resurrecting people?? Was he aware that he was threatening his siblings' authority?? Did he care about that?? He never offers his own side of the story and I, for one, refuse to fill in the gaps for him.

He could be really cool????!!!! But he's so boring???!! Again I think this could be slightly improved by putting his follower quests back and making him a more interactive character. As it is now he's a dull follower who does very little.

He is a lot cooler if you do choose to kill him instead of sparing him and making him a follower. At least then he seems to have a complete narrative arc. I don't consider his character on the other story path to be nearly as complete considering he seems to be floating in an uncomfortable space between redemption (something that would require that he apologize even once) and antagonism (something that requires that he be an active presence in his own story which he isn't once he is indoctrinated).

I'm not gonna cinemasins ding Narinder for all the dramatic things that the narrative asks him to do even if it makes him look really bad or stupid. (i.e: why did wait this long to make the last sacrificed lamb into his vessel when he could've started right away, why didn't he just resurrect those lambs considering he can resurrect the player character? why didn't he just amass a huge army of vessels to lead his cult all at once if he needs believers that bad?) At the end of the day, I can overlook it.... BUT the absence of these answers is really felt the more you think about it. As far as the writing on the wall is he is selfish at heart and if he isn't stupid then I guess I have to assume that he's way weaker than he says. laaaammee!!

Small gripe but the game developers seem to really really want the player to spare Narinder and it annoys me. If players do kill Narinder then they get a second chance to spare him from the mystic seller, something that no one else gets afaik. It makes the decision feel much cheaper and less dramatic, as if it didn't really matter the first time and he could have been revived on a whim.

Also speaking of that, the devs really seem to push the idea that Narinder has some kind of feelings for Lamb. It's funny at first but then it just annoys me because it makes me feel like I'm forced to deal with something I didn't ask for. Like I said before, the combination of him thinking mushy thoughts about Lamb and giving generic follower lines like "I love you leader" make him come off as kinda pathetic if you don't choose to pursue him as a spouse. Like man... I'm just not into you like that.

I'm sorry but he really did need to be a wolf. Am I the only one thinking this?? C'mon.

That's probably not the extent of it but this is what comes to mind. Sorry for the long ass post but no one else seems to share my opinion. That's a big reason why I made this blog, just to see if anyone else agrees or if there's something I have just SEVERELY misunderstood. If you wanna dog on me or explain then feel free to send an ask.

I find it kind of funny that I actually used to ship narilamb but then I got into some more unpopular Lamb ships and went actually no I think this is better. Guy who has only ever eaten white bread realises there is other food out there /j

Idk I don’t really have any particular gripes with nrlmb or anything, it’s just so prevalent (and most content of it kind of features the same dynamic between the two) that it got boring for me eventually. There’re other characters and potential ship dynamics that are more under-explored (and to me more interesting than default narilamb) and I enjoy thinking about those more. Everything about nrlmb has already been considered but I am out here pioneering new ground with my rarepairs /j

Hell, there is potential for other non-romantic dynamics between the Lamb and Nari that are under-explored!! I want to see more of that too!! Here I was gonna share my own version of their dynamic but the ask got way too long so I think I’ll just end it here

It’s always good to hear from someone who used to ship them! I genuinely appreciate the perspective they can bring to me so I loved reading this! I’m always gonna be a huge goatlamb fan bc I’ve never not played this game on co-op mode with my partner (soon to be fiancé ♡) and now it just feels so unnatural to play it alone.

(I like to imagine that’s how Goat would feel about the whole thing. What’s the point of having power and leading my own cult alone when my divine counterpart isn’t even there??)

I also liked Narinder as he was, before he was a follower, in the same way that I enjoy a good Disney villain and I love to hate him so I just can’t really ship him with anyone except like the concept of villainy lol.

On the other hand, I totally see where Narilamb holds a kind of general appeal to people and, therefore, why the devs push it the front of their marketing. It’s annoying but when you’re a small game dev company you have to capitalize on your strongest betting horse.

My issue is that it’s too general- the exact kind of Trojan horse that makes money and gets attention. Their marketing strategy has consistently leaned on cheekily using his image and- while I’ve seen it work and can’t blame them- it’s so obviously a play for online attention and it gets old.

I also tire easily of the “sunshine x grumpy” dynamic. While I think it can be charming in theory, in execution it often doesn’t let characters grow out of the neat boxes it places them into. The “sunshine” character is doomed to be reduced down to a useless ditz (notice how often this role is filled by a woman and you’ll have all new reasons to be annoyed) and the grumpy character’s ability to be autonomous and draw boundaries is deliberately withheld from them in the name of “taming the shrew”- so to speak (god forbid the grumpy character be a man of color, a demographic that already has to be constantly aware of how ‘approachable’ they must appear to others for fear of punishment).

Putting the Lamb and Narinder into these roles is tantamount to completely defanging them:

The Lamb can no longer be a deceptively cute warlord and iron-fisted cult leader with vengeance in their heart who must choose between completely destroying their followers’ sense of individuality and independence the way the other gods seem to be driven to do at some point or another or obeying some moral principles no matter what- even if that means creating a mere illusion of freedom that gives both the Lamb and the followers a sort of tenuous peace.

Narinder can no longer be a person forever marked with the selfishness and evil he fell into- even if he once had selfless reasons. He was a god of death driven insane by an isolating and cruel imprisonment. Treating him as someone who’s bad attitude simply needs to be curbed misses the point: that he had been broken into a self-serving and violent coward by the treacherous designs set against him- that he is the exact person the Lamb risks becoming for every selfish choice they make in running their cult. Even if he had been kind in the past, he grew to fully believe that the mortals under his control were tools for his use and that their purpose was to act as such.

The Lamb and Narinder are foils, yes, but not in a kind or redemptive way in which they might learn how to be better from the other. Narinders existence serves as a warning to the player of what can happen if we treat the position of power over others as the natural state of things.

And I, for one, find it a little annoying when that dire warning is constantly being dressed up in a maid outfit and his dick and balls are used to sell game copies and merch.

Also we need more explorations of the other characters in the game!!! I think the devs did a great job with the other bishops and with purgatory and Woolhaven is another sign that they know what they’re doing with their story so I’m hoping we will see more relationship dynamics being explored and I for one would love to see more texture to Lamb’s relationship to Narinder. Even if they want to keep pushing Narilamb I’d honestly rather they use that opportunity to make him a character worth caring about!! I’d eat (some of) my words if they would just give me a good reason to like him. That apology he gave was written like shit and was all over the place in terms of characterization so he’s falling way behind the rest of the cast in terms of strong character writing!!! Pleeeeease pray we get something good in the future that makes him less of a useless dish rag.

The One Who Whines

The One Who Wastes My Time

The One Who Will Never Take Accountability For Any Wrongdoing

ANYWAY I HAD A NAME IDEA FOR IF MARMAR WAS TOWW… The One Who Wails, like some fucked up siren song that makes people want to jump off their boats and drown.

THE ONE WHO WAILS LMAOOO

that girl does indeed have pipes, every time I see her in the cult she’s always startling me with her weird talking sound effect. I’m always like “who is window washing??” And then it’ll be her

The hot, 5’5” gender-fluid lamb I pulled by being their mirror counterpart and protector: we can get started on the sinning part ourselves since we’re already so close to the mating tent ;)))

The Mystic Seller: Virtue and Sin are not truths of the universe- merely the petty biases and preferences of temporary Gods. Soon, infant God, your time will end and the godly tears you are so fond of gathering will spill from your swollen eyes and soak the land like rain.