#mesosex

Can anyone with PCOS consider themselves intersex, or are there certain requirements to call yourself intersex as a PCOS individual? For example: If you have testosterone levels that are only a little higher than normal, so therefore you have little to no excessive body hair growth, then could you still call yourself intersex? Or would that be too little to consider yourself intersex?

I suspect I have PCOS. I only have a little bit of excess hair growth on my face, but not a full beard (basically enough to get others to mention it to me), and my blood tests showed that I have high testosterone levels, but I'm not sure how high it is yet. I feel abnormal because of this, like I feel like I'm too perisex to be intersex, but too intersex to be perisex. I genuinely envy PCOS individuals who have more body hair than me </3

disclaimer: i am not intersex and do not have pcos, however, my brother has pcos, so i will speak on what he has said in past conversations with me.

in general, intersex organizations recognize pcos as an intersex condition, but the medical sphere doesn't (largely because of a desire to minimize who is considered intersex due to intersexism). pcos with hyperandrogenism does, factually, affect sex traits, and intersex conditions are those which result in sex traits outside of the typical male-female sex binary, which is why intersex activists typically recognize pcos with hyperandrogenism as an intersex condition.

my brother also has mild hyperandrogenism; his hormonal variation affected his build, giving him a body shape more similar to our dad than our mom, and resulted in some bottom growth (enlarged clitoris). he does not grow facial hair or excess body hair, which makes him, like you, envious of hairier folks with pcos.

my brother does consider himself intersex, which he wasn't confident about at first due to the division of opinions. especially because he doesn't have super 'visible' hyperandrogenism and his testosterone levels aren't highly elevated, he felt like he might not be 'intersex enough'.

when i get my cramps i know when they're gonna happen because i get that twinge, but when they kick in full force by god am i not able to do anything.

but also i feel like i'm not allowed to say mine are bad because other people have it worse. i've known people that have had to be bed-bound or even tub-bound because their pain is so horrific that no medication can stop it.

and meds are able to stop mine. usually i have to take 1000+ mg of advil (or tylenol, but i have to also consume something high in vitamin c along the way otherwise the pain won't actually stop. it's because vitamin c has anti-inflammatory properties) and put pressure between my stomach and crotch, usually by laying down and having a plushie underneath.

i know this is all tmi but i legitimately think my periods are abnormal because of my cramps. and also a heavy flow. i have to wear not one but two overnight pads (i am NOT wearing a fucking tampon. Go fuck yourself) at once. during the day.

i think this is part of why i'm questioning myself as intersex. i usually use the labels extersex and mesosex because when i was born, i was not only absolutely MASSIVE (i dwarfed all the other newborns to the point where i was easily distinguished), but i was labelled as having excess levels of estrogen in my body and i went through puberty earlier than expected, just like my mom. but doctors didn't test either of us for shit because they simply cared not LOLLL

i don't know what condition i could have that could cause me to have/develop hyperestrogenism but i would Looove to find out... problem is we don't have a car. it burst into flames like a week ago

(no "show results" option here. what if that gets the vast majority of the results? it will be difficult to see the differences in amount of votes between the other responses).

Background:

You see, I have pcos. I am female. Many people argue other whether pcos is intersex or not. One of the main sticking points is whether people who have pcos are female or not.

To me, it doesn't make any sense to say I'm not female just because I have pcos. I have an entire female reproductive system, and no male reproductive organs to my knowledge. Regardles of my chromosomes (I haven't had them checked), my body clearly developed as female. Yes, I also have hyperandrogenism and some male secondary sex characteristics. However, I am still technically female, regardless of how I look or how my body developed at puberty.

However, it also makes sense to me to consider pcos an intersex condition. I generally avoid taking a stance on this nowadays, because it is a controversial topic. However, I clearly have a mix of sex characteristics that is different from the average female person. I can relate to many intersex people's experiences of being outcast as a weirdo or freak for having mixed secondary sex characteristics. Besides, some definitions of intersex specifically include hormonal differences (such as pcos?).

However, it seems a lot of people believe that pcos has to be a female thing or an intersex thing, but not both. That makes no sense to me. To me, it is clearly both. However, I don't want to argue all the time, so I usually just say I'm female or that I have pcos (whichever is more relevant to the conversation). Although, I do want to see what the wider community thinks.

I find out a hell ton of things about myself since I found out I'm intersex. And here I thought I was just severely traumatised and mentally ill

It's moreso considered a mesosex variation and not officially Intersex by the community (however I've seen sentiment accepting mesosexuality under the intersex umbrella as a whole which, yeah me too. idc, why not?)... but like. If you find support through the intersex community because of an innate variation in your sexual characteristics, of which PMDD SEEMS to be caused by wackshit sex hormones + I've heard of others with it finding said support through the intersex community? Irregardless that's amazing I'm happy you can find community here come join the cookout cousin we have vegetarian options and shit

Honestly I'd love to see intersexuality and the intersex liberation movement get some more mainstream traction? Yes there's the Issues more visibility often has to offer as opposed to being under the radar however like. Some shed light on the movement would be nice to be able to develop more solidly what May or May Not be under the umbrella of inter-/meso-sexuality, strengthen what community we have. Among other things but that's relevant right now since it can be a bit nerve-wracking trying to figure that out as-is with the lines so blurry, so?

But I think this would be good for people who DO have vaginismus and question if that makes them intersex

mesosex is a term for intersex people who have variations not commonly seen as intersex by perisex society, and is a term that can be used to put a spotlight on people who experience invisibility and erasure within discussions of intersexuality, it does NOT mean people who are "almost intersex."

yeah a lot of shit does fall within "completely perisex" range but that's so absurdly difficult to figure out on your own because of systemic misogyny that these people ARE NOT GUILTY OF that questioning if you're intersex is a valid way to trial and error your way into understanding your body better. there is no harm in questioning.

systemic interphobia ALSO makes it more difficult to figure this shit out to a point where people can be intersex and have records of this, but can go their entire lives not actually realizing they're intersex. and shit like "nono you're normal, this is a completely normal thing to experience which means you can't be intersex because intersex people have to be some out of nowhere anomaly" makes this even worse. and I feel like this mentality is connected to the one I'm talking about right now, to be honest.

a lot of these "typical perisex traits" are ALSO things that can be a result of different intersex variations, and anyone can decide for THEMSELVES what is enough to make them want to look into things.

curious how I keep on seeing people who are only making this judgement towards people who they view as Müllerian.

maybe I just don't know better, but I think the concept of being intersex being so wildly hidden away and gatekept by perisex society that someone being intersex and not being able to find out because of these standards is a MUCH LARGER ISSUE than someone thinking they might be intersex, going through the process, and ending up wrong. I rather people jump the gun over even the most unassuming of things and come out understanding their body more through being wrong than have to see mountains and mountains of people deny themselves the right to question or the right to identify with the intersex community despite it being so justified that it's sickening.

you can say you want resources on Müllerian bodies to be more accessible and more accounting for a range of differences that may occur without implying that people are doing something morally wrong or are Afflicted By Internalized Misogyny for feeling like their body comes with some unanswered questions. even if the absence of resources is connected to misogyny it's not their fault and the continued obsession with telling people who could be intersex that they're "overreacting" or aren't capable of advocating for their own body because they're too misogyny-headed is so dismissive and horrible. you don't know their body, and you can't decide things for them.