#inspirationalinterview

When I interviewed Namita, she was the director and head curator of the Museum of Contemporary Craft. I’m impressed by her willingness to give to the community; she leads Critical Craft Forum, was a fantastic Creative Mornings speaker, and participates in the planning and execution of Design Week Portland (she killed as the moderator for the Designing Women panel!). She shared her thoughts with me one afternoon over tea and pastries.

What did you think you were going to be when you were ten years old?

A writer.

What about 25?

Professor of art history, and a writer.

Tell me about your educational background.

I did my undergraduate in art history and English at Rice in Houston. Then I took four years and worked a museum educator – one year at the Children’s Museum of Houston and three years at Blaffer Gallery. Then I went back to graduate school and finished my coursework and dissertation at University of Chicago. And then I left. That's what when I went to work for a design firm, and I used my bonus to take metalsmithing classes at Lill Street in Chicago.

Can you tell me about how and why you made the transition back into arts administration when you were working as a jeweler?

In 2004, my kids were back in school, and I had been working sporadically while I was at home with them when they were little. I was asked to apply for the position of curator at Contemporary Crafts Gallery. I put in my application and then I called to say "No, I don't think I'm the person you want. I'm going to want more out of this then you're going to be able to do." Because at the time, they had only about 12,000 visitors a year, and I knew I would want more. I talked to the director and he said actually “We're looking for someone to develop a new kind of museum focused on craft.”

At this point, I had just resuscitated my business, I was in seven galleries across the country and gilt.com and had gotten into Art in the Pearl, so I was doing really well, but the problem for me was that what was going on up here (motions towards head), wasn't coming out in my hand. What I was making was pretty, and there are a lot of people out there are making very pretty jewelry. What I was making wasn't distinctive enough, I wasn’t satisfied with it.

The opportunity to have job interaction with visitors, visitor engagement, and to really rethink what a museum focused on craft would look like, that really excited me. I didn't think I was a great jeweler, I think I'm a better curator, and writer.

Can you tell me about your curatorial process?

There's no linear trajectory as to how an exhibition happens. It's something that keeps percolating, and you see different parts in different places and you start to pull all these disparate things together. For me, an exhibition is about asking a question, and addressing that question through the form of the exhibition. That includes the objects, the programming, the wall texts, everything about the whole package, everything that goes into examining the question.

It just isn't a linear process! There are some exhibitions that I know we've wanted to do for years, there are some that come out of nowhere, and there are some that start as one thing and then morph into something different. I have to have an open mind, but also clarity about what i'm trying to examine and share with people. it's not just enough for me to have my own research questions, it has to be something that can be communicated that lots of different people can enter into the conversation. It's about creating a scene that opens a space for engagement.

What do you have to say to women making their way in the creative field?

I think you need to be strong, and that doesn't mean aggressive, but you need to be clear. You cannot be wishy washy about what you want or don't want. You have to understand that where you are at any given moment isn't where you're going to be in two years or five years or ten years. You have to figure out how to be where you are and be clear. Don't be afraid to speak up for yourself. Learn to speak in public. Learn to express your ideas, both written and verbally. Be aware of the strengths you bring to the work flow that might be different than what might be expected. Be prepared to work in what is still largely a male-dominated world, despite how many women run arts organizations. A lot of it is still dominated by men.

I often experience male designers approaching things with more confidence than their female counterparts. Where do you think that split comes from?

Men are taught that they have the right to take space. They're not afraid to take space and take room and women are taught to hold back, to support, to open up space and encourage dialogue. that's great, but it also teaches us that we have to couch what we say in a questions, or a "right?". We need agreement, consensus. We're still unfortunately in that situation, a lot – much more than I would like us to be. It should be better than it is and it's not, and that bothers me. Sometimes I feel like it's gotten worse.

I come from generations that have worked. My aunts, they all had graduate degrees in India, several of them studied in England in the 20th century. I don't come from a family of women who sit back quietly. My great-grandmother barely had a fourth grade education and my great-grandfather had enough education that he could teach drafting in schools, but they had eight children and raised all their children to have college degrees, and all but one attended graduate programs.

Did your mom work?

Oh yeah. She has a Masters in microbiology. She stayed home with us for parts, here and there. There are times, when kids are little, they need you home, but for the most part she worked.

And the same for you?

From 1999 to 2004, I mostly stayed at home, only doing jewelry sporadically, wrote a few articles, and I had a really killer garden, because I was at home.

And now, you work so much!

For a while, I was working 60-80 hours – don't do it. It was compensating for what happened to us in 2008, when we almost closed. I was working those hours to stay at a really high standard and actually implement this vision of creating a new museum. I didn't want to let that go. the pejorative term would be "ambitious". Or “powerhouse”. I hate being called a powerhouse.

Oh no! I recently called Tsilli a powerhouse.

But coming from you, it’s different. When a man calls you a powerhouse, it doesn't feel the same way. I don't think a man in his fifties wouldn't call another man a powerhouse. I'm 46. I think I've proven that I'm not a powerhouse, I just get stuff done. But for someone your age, that's okay, that's different.

(And then there was a brief tangent regarding that kind of gendered language, in which Namita described the awesomeness of this clip from Scandal.)

http://jezebel.com/scandal-lisa-kudrow-goes-ham-in-an-epic-speech-on-sexi-1460876002

You do a fair amount of unpaid work, in addition to your work at the museum. How do you balance that, why is it important?

It's important to work where my feet hit the ground, as well as where I'm connecting what happens here more broadly. I serve on the board of the American Craft Council, that's a volunteer position. I think it's really important to understand that your work is not just your nine to five, it's living where you are and connecting and I feel a responsibility to give back, and to collaborate and participate with projects that are going on all over the place.

A lot of the work I do is outside of my job; lectures, writing, essays, reviews. I run something called Critical Craft Forum. It's all part of these pieces that fit into a broad spectrum of things I need to do to feel satisfied in myself, for my own work. It's not an easy balance. It means late nights, it means travel, time that i'm not spending with my family, but on the other hand when i am with my family, I try to be very present where I am. And my kids are older now! They're starting to do their own stuff, and they're also really good about letting us know if they need more of our time.

Why Portland?

In ‘94 I got a research grant to come and work on my Masters thesis. I landed in California, in San Francisco and went straight to Berkeley, and on the first day I was there, three people asked me for directions, and i thought "I've landed!" People thought I belonged there! And I hadn't had that experience in a long time. I was blown away by the west coast. we had some incredible experiences with the color, the beta color shift. The food was insane. The sun and the light and the smells, everything. We were trying to move to San Francisco, and we had some good friends who were moving to Portland. They said to come check it out. So we came up for a weekend and realized that we could buy a house, fly to San Francisco once a month and stay in a bed and breakfast, and it was still cheaper than living there! So we ended up here.

You're pretty active on Twitter, Instagram etc...

I love them! But I see them as a medium, and I use them as a medium. I'm not making anymore in the same way. Writing is wonderful, but it's different than making. For me, Twitter and Facebook become this creative outlet. Instagram too, I love Instagram. I love Pinterest. I'm completely addicted. I have to only allow myself to check it twice a day.

I find social media interesting. If it wasn't for the internet, the museum would not have the reputation it has. I've used the internet to get ideas out there and make connections.

What have you been working on recently that you’re excited about?

This jewelry book I just worked on recently was just astonishing, a lot of it was the personalities of the people who were involved. I have to give credit to Damion Skinner, who edited the book and brought us all in. It was this moment where everybody brought writing, and we all felt together, and we were all doing something new, we wanted to do something new. we spent a week picking everything apart and creating a whole new structure. It's really exciting to have those people in your life, with whom you can do things better than what you could by yourself. I find myself really craving more of that, rather than just executing projects.

The thing to do, too, is figuring out what you want from those different phases in your life. You're in a searching phase, so gather and figure out when you're going to start gather and analyze. I think you're doing the right thing, talking to people, that's really smart. That was some of the best advice someone gave me when I was your age. They said “You need to do start doing informational interviews. Where do you fit in? Where do you want to be?” She also told me, “if you find someone that you really like working with, say ‘I want to work with you, for free, for half an hour a week’. Use that as an opportunity to watch and learn.” Great advice. I think it's really important to mentor other people. I still have mentors, I’m very lucky. I think it's really important to pass it both ways.

Namita, thank you so much for your time. This has been very helpful for me.

I would love to hear how it’s helpful.

It’s helping me redefine success. It's definitely not about money. And side projects are important.

Side projects, yes! Tina Roth talks about that, how she’s made her side projects her main projects. One thing that came through at Design Week this year was that so many people that I ran across, their parents didn't have the kinds of jobs my parents did. My mom worked in a hospital, and my dad worked for Procter and Gamble and Frito-Lay, corporate america. So many people that I talked to during Design Week, their parents didn't do that. Their idea of what is possible is very different from mine. I was raised to understand that work comes through institutional affiliation, and practice. Being in Portland, being around a lot of designers and artists who understand that that isn't how it has to be… it's interesting where you measure success, and where it comes from.

Because we're of Indian origin, there's a lot of expectation that your children will be computer folks or scientists or doctors, they need to make money. And i remember wondering what my dad would think, because none of the three of us do any kind of work like that. I remember someone asking my father at a dinner party, "How do you feel about your children not being successful?" And he said: "What I've learned from my children is that success doesn't come from earning money, it comes in other ways, that's what I'VE learned from them."

Life is short. I'm more interested in feeling like i'm contributing to society and teaching my children how to be good citizens moving forward, and doing things to make my own community better.

Lizy is one half of Scribble Tone, a design studio that produces typefaces, interactive design and branding. She also coordinates workshops for WeMake and contributes to Design Week Portland. Every time our paths have crossed, I’ve been impressed by her cheerful demeanor and intrigued by her work. It was truly a treat sitting down for drinks at Migration on a rainy Friday afternoon.

How was Scribble Tone born?

Travis and I met in Chicago, we decided it was a good time in our lives to try going somewhere new, so we chose New Zealand. A friend told us it was easy to get a work visa if you’re under thirty. So we sold all of our stuff and packed up and moved to New Zealand. I’d graduated from school and worked for about two years at a branding firm and had been freelancing, I’d built up a clientele and connections. Travis graduated a little after I did and went straight into a job. We moved to New Zealand and thought we’d try to get work. Unfortunately the economy crashed, and no one in New Zealand was wanting to hire American junior designers. So Scribble Tone was born. We started applying for jobs remotely, through developers and contacts in Chicago, and we started building Scribble Tone more aggressively, thinking up the name, working on the brand, writing proposals. A few months down the line we got a bigger job and that stabilized us while we were in New Zealand.

Can you describe the kind of work you do?

We mostly do branding, interactive design, typeface design and more and more now, products, and typefaces are one of the products.

Tell me about your process.

Typically we start with the branding, to create a personality for the company, to get a sense of them. What is this company going to feel like? What are people going to feel towards this company? From there we build out and research, and then we create actual materials that would help reinforce that personality at the base level.

You get to see why they want to do it, what’s at the heart of the mission. You discover it with the client. You’re finding the genuine voice. Once you’ve created that brand, an identity, a basic color system, an element, so it has these things you can take and create marketing pieces. That way you’re not trying to design the brand in addition to the the layout and the content. Once you have the underlying foundation, you can do multiple things. And it doesn’t have to be completely finalized, things are still flexible. If there’s a better way, things can change.

The problems are so interesting, a lot of the interactivity, it’s like a big puzzle. How does an experience express that playfulness? Or the mystery? Or the genuineness of something? It reaches so many people. I’ve been designing since the early stages of the internet, so I see how society, or a certain demographic of society, has learned. We’ve learned to slide something, the x to close it, there are certain things you’ve learned over the years and society has learned collectively. You can build that into a flow. It’s cool to try to figure out simplified way to do things based on the learning curve of your demographic. As a child, you learn how to talk and how to read, and it’s the same thing with users. You’ve taught them what a check box means.

So from the branding, we go to the website, and I usually start by isolating the problems, we figure out solutions for those problems and then design and execute. Sometimes design and execution flow and intertwine. We work with the clients and try to understand what they want, and their needs, and then go back and try to think about it and sit with it for a little bit and look at other things that might be similar or have solved a similar issue and then think of our own solutions and then reinterpret all those things and grow it into something that works for them. They’re fun problems to solve.

Do you two work collaboratively?

Travis and I go back and forth. I usually start the brainstorming or art direction, I really like the research part of it. We both overlap on design. Travis then does development stuff. It’s too hard to think of it all at once, so it’s nice to have someone else to look at it and see if there are ways to make it stronger if there are errors, if there’s something that you’re not seeing. Sometimes you’re too close to it.

You and Travis have been working together for eight years. What makes a creative partnership work?

Support. Honesty, trust, challenging each other. Having clear goals and expectations. Knowing what the other person wants and needs. Wants and needs that go parallel to one another. I think that’s true in relationships as well. There’s a lot of stuff with life and business that comes up that isn’t easy, so having someone that you trust and you’re honest with and that you can depend on and support and love, you can fight anything. I mean, you want to work with good people. I don’t know, he’s the best.

Tell me about your side projects or hobbies.

That’s tricky, because we’re really trying not to call our side projects, just our projects. They might not bring in money right now, but hopefully we’re building them so that they will. My projects that clear my mind, I like to hike, it calms me. Lately I’ve been dancing. Moving in general. Because I design so much, my body hurts, and that’s ignoring me. So hiking and moving, I like to play tennis, and now dancing. Stretching in general relaxes me and makes me feel more alive. And as a result, I feel more confident and inspired and ready to tackle things. Ready to run with my ideas. If I don’t have that, I feel like I shut myself down too much.

I really like painting, and I like doing pottery, but I haven’t continued to do those things after college, because after I’m done with work, I don’t want to sit anymore. The idea of sitting and forcing my body to sit more does not appeal to me. When i get stumped or really defeated, I like to walk and be in the forest or in a park. It makes me not overthink things, and I can’t act on anything, I can just flow with my ideas. If I go straight to the computer, I’ll go straight to doing, and it may not be as productive as if I made more thoughtful choices.

Tell me about your education and design background.

The first thing that kind of stuck with me, was being a yearbook editor in my high school. I worked with three of my really good friends. They gave us a lot of creative freedom, and it was really fun to create something that reflected a school that I really enjoyed and a community that I really enjoyed, and work with my friends on writing the articles and taking photos and doing the layout. It didn’t occur to me then that that’s what I wanted to do, but in hindsight, that’s the closest thing to what i do now. You’re excited about the project, the product you’re producing. Different problems that you’re trying to solve. I went to a great high school, it was really small, I was the yearbook editor and was in a musical and played sports. You didn’t have to be excellent at anything, you could try out at things and be in control of what you wanted to do.

When I went to college, I didn’t really know what I wanted to do, I thought I’d be a business major because I liked the idea of being an entrepreneur. I thought that was practical. It gave me a confidence, more than anything. Then I realized I wanted to do art, and I wanted to go abroad for a year, to Italy. The programs I wanted to go do would help me graduate in four years if I was an art major. So I went to Italy for a year and took all my art and art history classes. And I learned how to live by myself and be away from my family. And travel.

When I came back I graduated and then after that I thought branding and advertising would be good because it combined art and business. So I started working as an executive assistant to the president of this branding firm – a woman, awesome, she was tough as hell. She gave me a lot of administrative responsibilities of organizing systems, so I would research the systems, it was like a user interface. What are the problems of the company? I’d research what was out there, research what would be the best solutions, and I would give her options. She gave me ownership of that. It was a cool experience, and it taught me so much.

It was relatively small business that was growing very quickly, so it kind of showed me some base things – expenses, keeping track of your time, working with contracts. It gave me exposure to this system that I was not familiar with before. I realized in that job where I was going was more of an account manager, and I wanted to explore more design. I just didn’t have the background for the work that she wanted me to do, and it wasn’t a good fit for me. I needed more experience. So I quit and went to Argentina for a month and I built my portfolio. My friend was living there, and I stayed in her other room. There was no pressure from anyone I knew. That’s one of the benefits of moving to a new place – you don’t have those expectations of people who already know you.

Then I moved back to the States, and I met Travis after I got back. Then I was applying for jobs wherever I could, looking at temporary work in creative agencies. What was great about that was that you got to see different types of organizations. I’d only known a small branding firm. Then I worked at bigger ad agencies as an in-house designer. It showed me the different kinds of environments that were out there.

And a thread throughout my beginning career – my second cousin had a great design studio in Chicago and I worked as an intern for them in the summer. It was a really warm environment. We were family, so it had to be. I didn’t really design there, I organized files, etc, but then after I had built a portfolio and had some projects and showed my understanding of the web, then he needed me for a project, so I worked with him for a year, creating the wireframes, designing them. With design, when you’re trying to sell these ideas and have confidence, I need to be myself. When you feel uncomfortable, it can’t happen.

I often experience male designers exuding more confidence than their female counterparts, do you have any thoughts on this?

I see it with women too, I think it’s more of a personality type, the exuding confidence. I struggle with putting gender on things, because I think that puts limitations on women. I just want people to do things well. I think there are just personality types in the end. Women can do whatever and men can do whatever, and I think there’s a confidence that you’re raised with or not raised with.

What brought you to Portland?

We were planning on moving back to Chicago and New Zealand made us realize how important it was for our business, our relaxation, our relationship, to be around mountains, be around hiking. Chicago didn’t feel right. So we researched places to live and Portland seemed like a good fit, between the design and the mountains and the ocean. It seemed like the best option. And so we drove here and moved.

Any final advice?

Be patient with yourself. Instead of putting yourself down, try to isolate the problem and take that as a strength, it’s something you can make better. You can identify what’s not right. But you have to kind of break it down sometimes if that’s the case. Distance yourself from it, move, work on something that helps you breathe and look at it more objective eyes so that you’re enjoying your process. Because ultimately with design, and life, you can change it if you don’t like it. So identify what you’re not happy with and figure out what would make you happier. Sometimes that’s not the case, but if you do have control over that, you can always make it your own.

You don’t even have to focus on the problem, just think about what would be the ideal situation. Who is happy to you? You can even distance it from yourself. What do you think is cool? What do you think is great? Where do you want to be? And then you think “that’s how I can make this happen”. It’s true with design, too. When I start a project, I’ll  think “this is how I could feel, this is why I love this project, this is why I’m excited about this, and here’s how I would get there”.