#flantalks

Because as I’ve noticed in the Masterpost, a lot of characters have died many times—but a lot of those deaths consist of the character dying very briefly and being resuscitated mere minutes later. And there are other deaths that people in the comments, who otherwise gave me niche examples, ignored or didn’t recall, which leads me to believe they are narratively insignificant.

Comics in general have a habit of killing off their characters as a way to raise stakes and then quickly reviving them, it can often read as cheap drama but it is just as likely to be genuine character work.

My personal opinion is that what a death needs for me to actually internalize it as canon is:

1. character impact (either the impact on other’s development or the character who’s died development)

2. narrative significance

3. continual reference.

It doesn’t have to contain all three but I feel like at least two is pretty vital.

For example: Jason’s first death impacted Bruce’s characterization for decades afterward. He haunted the narrative for years, was referenced in numerous runs, and now that he has been revived his death and revival are core parts of his character. It is impossible to separate Jason from this death. However, I have since learned he has died short deaths after this, which were so insignificant i had never even heard of them. So I wouldn’t really internalize them as canon because they had such little impact

Cass’s death against Shiva was the conclusion of one of her main internal character struggles (her death wish) and spanned nearly half her first solo, it resulted in significant character development for her, and has also since been referenced in other runs (batgirl 2024). Her death against Mad Dog was also imo great character work (she dies but she still doesn’t ‘lose’ because she gets Alpha to understand the heart of her no killing philosophy). It also forces Shiva to revive her which I find notable enough for their relationship and subsequent dynamic. Iirc it also gets referenced in Spirit World.

Steph’s death in War Games was a part of a major story arc, and is incredibly narratively significant to that entire storyline. I have not yet read all of War Games (mostly because i know it’s Bad) so I can’t get into the gnitty gritty about its effect on character development but it’s a major part of the latter half of Batgirl 2000. On the other hand, I don’t find her death in Batgirls 2021 to be at all narratively significant so i hesitate to canonize it in my brain.

Tim is an interesting one because ive never seen anyone talking about his !three! deaths. even in my initial post people were saying he had only been presumed dead! and, according to the death master list, even Robin War Tim says he’s never died. All of the deaths in the master list seem like very quick deaths, so i think that combined with them being non consequential makes people forget them. I’ve never read a Tim comic though, so i’m interested to see what people who are fans of him think.

It's established that TWL doesn't revel in killing humans, he only eats desires and will go along with whatever role humanity thrusts upon him if it means he is eating people's desires.

He loves humans, even, the same way someone might love steak, but he nonetheless becomes distraught at the thoughtless destruction brought upon them when a human wishes to destroy the world. He is actively interested in continuing humanity for the sake of filling his belly.

He is driven by his hunger, he's not quite 'evil,' he's just top of the food chain and has a penchant for gorging himself (especially after the initial mass destruction he commits above). He harms at the will of humans, and after he eats someone's desires he doesn't destroy their bodies at all, just leaves them on the floor in a sort of stasis that could be considered a sort of 'death.' (as we see with Thistle, and the first humans he eats at the dinner table).

So, why does he hurt Mithrun?

From the framing of the shot the destruction of Mithrun's eye seems like a symptom of the pinning, TWL is careless and focused only on devouring his prey, so he pins Mithrun in such a way that obviously is not ideal for his well-being. But that doesn't explain why TWL would tear his ears off? There seems to be no rhyme or reason for this violence, and it's only with Mithrun. He is bizarrely exceptionally cruel only to Mithrun.

I know Mithrun believes this to be the demon seeing his inner vanity and sense of superiority and was therefore punishing him for these reasons. But this also just, doesn't seem like something TWL could or would care about. If he's a creature that lives only to eat he doesn't need to teach this random elf he trapped a lesson, he just needs to cultivate his desires and eat them.

But...if this isn't just Mithrun's perspective and is actually true (and the Adventurer's Bible is a sort of 'word of god'/world-building clarification) then... why? Why did TWL choose to do this to Mithrun and only Mithrun?

It's even when they meet again, too! TWL is very mocking towards Mithrun in a way that seems personal.

collecting some of my greatest hits (dumbest ways i’ve drawn cass’s bat symbol) which, for context, looks like this

For context: there's this user whose very dedicated to preserving the ship of Koncass (as a reference to that one early 2000s brief romance that Cassandra Cain and Connor has had with each other before they decided to just stay as friends) and like he's been using his money to commissioned lots of artists on the site to draw Koncass arts. How do you feel about the ship and that user?

Also, what is your opinion on the idea of Cassandra having a male love interest and why do you like/dislike it? (well, it's to reference the writers have love interests as males in her earlier runs, including the Shadow of the Batgirl graphic novel where she dated Eric). Do you also know why the fandom like or doesn't like it?

Well firstly people can do whatever they want with their money LOL if someone really loves casskon and they’re commissioning casskon art then power to them, not only are they funding artists which is great but they’re doing it for something they like. which is also great. Frankly it would be weird for someone to have any strong opinion on someone doing smth as harmless as… commissioning artists for work for a ship that was canon at one point?? idk why anyone would Have an opinion on that.

As for Casskon in general… kinda complicated. I generally appreciate what it meant writing wise for Cass and her relationships/her perception of relationships. I think there’s a lot of interesting stuff to be had there. Unfortunately that entire issue also brought with it a lot of overt sexualization of Cass, especially after she had just said she hates feeling objectified by men. And more importantly Cass notices that Kon is staring at her in a way that “makes her feel bad” because she knows what he is thinking and feeling. And i really, really just cannot look past that to enjoy them as a ship. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Honestly the entire issue and subsequent date gave me such second hand embarrassment that I mostly skimmed it, i just really didn’t like it. I felt it was extremely rushed and strange..? I know there were editorial reasons for it not happening and i’m glad but i also understand that’s why it felt like speedrunning a ‘relationship’. The only thing i thought was cute was that their date was beating the shit out of monsters together and the rest of it was just… eh. to me.