– What kind of copy songs? In the beginning I bought a book for starters but… I wanted to be in a band. This friend’s older sister liked CASCADE. We watched the DVD and I thought I want to try this. But because I had just started, it was so difficult that I couldn’t do it.

– So your roots are CASCADE? Yes. From thereon I listened to various types/bands. I did it the same time like my club activities and in the 3rd year of middle school I stood on the stage of a live house for the very first time. People from a different school that I knew and who had a band were asking me if I don’t want to try being in a band.

– That’s amazing. Being so good at Badminton that you even had the chance to go to the Kantou-games and then standing on stage of a live house in 3rd year of middle school. Doing that in your 3rd year of middle school is pretty early, isn’t it? [in your 3rd year of middle school people are about 14-15 years old] But aren’t there also people who start to work after graduating from middle school? Around that time I asked myself what I want to do in the future and thought about that a bit. Like… Right now I’m doing badminton but I’m not gonna be a sportsman. So I thought I need to search for different things and being in a band was the one thing that fits the best.

– But why being in a band? I was in the choir and also played the piano and read music magazines. The choir made me do vocal exercise and I could hit the right tone. Now it’s still the same but back then they told me that if you can play the piano then you can also play the guitar right away. So I thought “Let’s try being in a band!”

– When did you start writing your own songs? In my 2nd year of high school.

– That’s also so early. But from today’s point of view, it doesn’t count what I did back then. I used a software to produce the sound, so there wasn’t too much of playing myself [for creating the songs]. In 2nd year of high school we performed at the culture festival of our school. Only people from our school performed that day and we found a guy that could play the drums. But he was no good (bitter laugh). That’s why I created the drum sound with a software and the sound engineer played the sound.

– And from that time on you put lots of effort into music. Were you a Visual Kei band right from the beginning? No, in the beginning we were a usual band but when we participated in Taiban sometimes there were also people from Visual Kei bands. I was invited by these people and that’s how I came to know about Visual Kei for the first time. For me CASCADE hadn’t anything to do with Visual Kei. After that I participated in a local Visual Kei event and the first time I came to know people from that scene was in 3rd year of middle school. That’s why I wanted to quit school (laughs)

– That’s what happens (laughs) We’ve started an original band and until that time our guests who came to the live were mainly our friends but then also other people became our fans and I was really looking forward to start a proper band. So I stopped playing badminton and only wanted to be in a band. I wanted to try it in Tokyo but since I still went to school and I could only go to [the live house “Urawa] Narciss”. For people being active in Utsunomiya, bands that performed at Kashiwa were amazing. It was hard to make people come to Utsunomiya. I performed at Urawa Narciss in my 3rd year of high school.

– Unfortunately school sometimes got in the way, didn’t it? Actually, it’s not like I didn’t like studying. Rather than “I don’t want to go to school anymore” it was “I want to go to Tokyo”. I thought that if I go to a college In Tokyo nobody could say anything against it, so I went to an art college in Tokyo.

– Why did you go to an art college? Because both of my parents did. My father for being a sculptor and my mother for creating oil paintings. They let me draw various pictures in my childhood. So I also headed into that direction. Rather than going to a college where I had to study, I thought I could also improve myself in the field of music if I went to an art college. I thought I would learn many things that could be helpful.

– What did you major in? In metal technics. Somehow I wanted to create something that is three-dimensional. I got the feeling that being a sculptor is hard but I wanted to make accessory that I’ve tried doing for a bit back then. That’s why I thought it doesn’t have to be something big like a sculpture. I rather wanted to make smaller art objects. I was told that if I did metal technics then I would be able to do these things. There were many different classes like those working with wood or textiles and among all those classes I thought metal was the coolest (laughs). That’s really all I thought. It was really different from music.

– And how was it? I spend my time on regular classes as well as classes where we created something. If you ask me what I liked more… I’m rather a person who wants to create something. There was an older man who was like a living national treasure and he just went like: “If you do it this way, you create something out of this metal. The eyes [of the sculpture] have to turn out well!” and because of him I had no interest at all in those classes (bitter laugh). I wanted to give this image I had in my head a form. Somewhen the classes changed and after the new teacher came it got easier. Around that time I gave out our own CD that had been released back then and people came to know that I was in a band. That’s why they told me: “It’s fine if you do it your way as you like.” As of that time I was allowed to create the things the way I wanted. I created figures and stuff like that.

– Out of metal? I didn’t create anything out of metal (laughs)

– Hahaha! You received a special treatment. Actually that wasn’t good, was it? (laughs)

– Sometimes there is this one person in the class that make people think “I have no idea what this guy is thinking but somehow he’s good at what he’s doing.”. You were that person. No… but I think I merged with everyone (laughs)

– That’s what these people always think (laughs) Somehow… Were you a person that gave in or a person that could people get excited about something? Maybe in elementary school it was the latter. I thought “Let’s do this!!” and dragged everyone along. But in high school I became rather shy and everyone said “Come with us! Come with us!” (laughs) In high school I had good friends in my class but I didn’t find new friends. When we decided for rehearsal, the bandmembers went to school with our band car (laughs) That’s why I think everyone else went like “What’s going on with them?”

– That’s what they probably thought (laughs) When you formed DIV you walked ahead right away. I think you’ve made various experiences until that time. Well, there were bad concerts, and in our home prefecture we held so damn many concerts without any fan. Until my first year in college I was in a band with the members of my home prefecture but because I was the only one who lived in Tokyo I came to know many other Tokyo bandman. Around that time session bands of young people were popular. When I came to know about that I knew I had to do it too. I started being in a session band but I was already too late. After that we formed NEXX and fans started to come to our lives but it didn’t mean we could join a label, so there were many things we didn’t know anything about. We couldn’t make it… Or rather…

– Or rather? Didn’t we all start being in a band because we wanted to be artists? But if you’re being in a band without a label then it means that the time you put into your work is “creating something: 30%, managing things: 70%”. It was different to what we expected but if you don’t do it people don’t get to know about you. We’ve created flyer and goods by ourselves but all I thought was that I wanted to write songs. I thought that even though I wrote songs I thought of as cool they didn’t spread. Maybe rather than spending power on creating something good it’s more important to spend power on spreading it? That’s what you had to think about.

– I see. It’s the same now but since I like writing songs the most that’s what I want to put my main focus on. I learned how to compose only by self-studying but I think I received the „know how of how to create something“ while I was in NEXX. That’s very helpful for me now.

– So, you started DIV. Could you see this vision for the band right from the beginning to this extent? For example “After xy years this will happen”? I definitely wanted to perform at O-WEST after one year. It was like that right from the beginning. Also, I decided that when I’m about to start a band and don’t believe to 100% that this band can stand on stage of AX or Budokan or Tokyo Dome, then I won’t do it. I decided that I don’t want to do it if, rather than thinking “I definitely want to perform there”, I’m satisfied with “It’s fine the way it is now”. If that was the way of thinking that it also would be meaningless to stand on stage for a oneman at O-WEST after one year.

– You had such a conversation and confirmation with the other members? Even now we have this conversation often. It’s a rough feeling but, for example, in the band world, among the people that are super popular but don’t show up on TV and the popular guys who do show up often but when they have comedy lives there aren’t many people… among those two groups, who is more popular? Well, this turned out to be a meaningless conversation (laughs)

– No, I think that’s a really important topic! When we’re travelling from one live to the next these kind of topics just come up by nature. “It’s just thinking”. That’s what we do a lot in DIV.

– When you’re having these conversations who is the one who talks the most? We all do. It’s the same when we create something but we want to tell the other members about our ideals and bring it into shape. It’s a good band if we all can talk about everything without feeling bad. If we can’t do that I think it would be really unpleasant to talk to each other while travelling [by car]. It would end up like “I want to do games…” (laughs)

– Definitely (laughs) But I think even if we can’t find an answer it’s important to think about something at least. I mean, isn’t there a reason for a song to be called good or a band to be called popular? Isn’t it important to think about this?

– You also like to think about it in such an analytical way? Yes. Not only analytical but also… the thought of… well, we trust our feelings if we think of something as cool but afterwards we all go like “Which part we actually thought was cool, to begin with?” That way we can find out the part we thought of as cool following our feelings. I think it’s important to find the right balance between feeling and analyzing.

– The topics of your lyrics are always so interesting. This specific impression is so strong but that’s the base of it, isn’t it? What are my characteristics and my style? That’s what I was always thinking about but to put it simple, I just like interesting things. In the recent pop songs the lyrics don’t really get a lot of attention, don’t you think? There are specific phrases and the sound is important.

– I think so too. If you do it that way then you might not even need to take a look at the lyrics cards [= booklet with printed lyrics] because the worth of these lyrics will be brought to you just naturally. But I want to write lyrics about which you find out something new after you read it on the lyrics cards. I want people to think: “Oh, that’s how he wrote it?!” Maybe that’s not what the current flow is, but still.

– You want to do the opposite of what other people are doing? The opposite would be thinking that it’s fine to not include any lyrics cards. Would those even be necessary if you don’t need to read them anyway?

– I see. Definitely, there are songs you don’t need lyrics cards for. But I want everyone to read it. There are people who understand the lyrics thanks to an instrument or phrase. I don’t think that’s bad but I like lyrics the best that move me after reading it.

– It’s not attacking people who have a different opinion but rather noticing those different opinions and thinking ”but I want to do it rather this way”… Somehow, you understand this so well [= you are so premature]. Your career is the same and your way of describing things as well. When you talk to other people that are your age, doesn’t it feel different? Aah… but it’s like this since forever. I don’t want to be successful, being stuck between phrases like “Because he’s only a boy in high school” or “Because this is a new band.” I hate hearing things like „Isn’t this good for someone being in high school?” I don’t want other people to give me limits for myself. I think like that since forever.

– I see. You said at your MC at O-WEST that you are a simple guy. But you’re not simple at all. Hahahaha. No, I’m really bad at talking to people. I often think that there isn’t really anything to say. This is an interview, so I tell you things [about me] but I think a lot about what I shall say at live houses. I convey my feelings of gratitude but since I put everything I want to say into my lyrics there isn’t really anything I want to talk about. This is no critic but it’s not really my style and I don’t really want to tell the fans or people: “But that is what I think!”. If I was a fan and got told about the other people’s thoughts I would go “And?”. I would think: “You are talking for five minutes now. If you are a musician why don’t you just put your feelings into the songs?” (laughs) Speaking from the point of view of a fan, I want to become an artist that fans don’t complain about. That’s why I said that at O-WEST.

– You are in a band to reach your ideals. That’s important, isn’t it? You said you like composing the most. Why is it like that? Somehow, the feeling of wanting to complete something is the biggest inside of me. When we created our first CD that became a habit. People wonder about the unclear thing if music has a shape or not. Even though it doesn’t really have one it still conveys thoughts and feelings to the people who listen to it. I thought it’s similar with fashion but speaking of clothing… It’s like someone created something to convey a message or wants to express something with the design but by other people wearing it they create their own message to convey, don’t you think so? I think it’s the same with music. I write a song wanting to express this or that. But if I tell people things like “I think it’s this way” or “Listen to it that way” then it becomes a thing with only one message to express. I think that’s interesting. I think music and fashion are connected when it comes to that.

– It works the same way. Do you have a final goal as individual person? I… Speaking of my own goal, it’s finding my own goal. My songs and lyrics have the same concept. There is no person I aim to be. No, I think it would be good to be an original but it’s not really that this is my goal. I have to go out and find it by my own.

– You feel relieved the moment you can see your goal but maybe it becomes boring the moment you see it. But I’m also somehow jealous of people who can say “I want to be like this!” Isn’t that easy to understand? They just have to think about what to do to become like that. But for me there is nothing like this… It’s difficult.

 – That’s why you think a lot about things, don’t you? Yes. That’s true.