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With the small resurgence of Sander Sides for me I started looking back at what ive been missing out on for the last couple years and one was the identity of the Orange side. Even when I was in the fandom awhile ago I never used to believe that Orange would be Rage.
And I still dont but now I can articulate my thoughts better than 13 year old me could!
Let me Give my reasons why I dont think its Rage since those are easier to type out than who I think Orange actually is. You're allowed to agree to disagree but this is just my case point :)
(I'll also be using Rage, Anger, Wrath, interchangeably going forward)
Reason 1: Rage is too specific of a trait for a singular character.
Im well aware that each side is serves more purpose than their defining trait (Janus while also being deceit is also self preservation. Logan is logic but punctuality. And Patton is not just a moral compass but also most emotions. That'll be relevant soon) And so its not impossible to imagine Rage is more than just pure blind anger but I'll debunk some of that too.
Rage is also kinda stepping on Pattons territory. In 'Moving on' and 'ShvSn redux' Patton is fully capable of snapping and getting angry at others, and there were no sign of Orange in those moments. 'But Anxiety is also an emotion that Patton feels and Virgil exists' as stated before, each side isnt just their one trait, Virgil also seems to be a flight and fight respone, general self loathing, and angst; thats stuff Patton doesnt cover.
Rage also can't work as self justice or intense passion because thats also stepping on Janus and Roman's territory too. Roman while being Thomas creativity is also his passion and drive and Janus is fully into Thomas just looking out for himself. All his potential extra traits already seem to be covered by other characters.
Reason 2: C!Thomas just isnt a really angry character.
This one is more shaky given that things are liable to change whenever new content comes out, but Thomas just isnt a very angry character. Of course he gets upset and sometimes its exaggerated for comedic effect but Thomas's anger never seems to be random or like a genuine problem that needs to be solved .
Again. Shaky. But given current info, and the fact that these are all SIDES of THOMAS, I'm a bit confident in saying Thomas isn't a very angry person.
Reason 3: It doesn't make sense in a narrative sense
A meta reason why I dont think its Wrath is that anger issues are much more niche than what some of the other issues Thomas goes through. A lot of people lie, a lot of people have intrusive thoughts, a lot of people have complicated feelings about dating, a lot of people think about their own selfish actions, not a lot of people have anger issues in a way that it would be a problem. The issues that C!Thomas goes through while have specific scenarios for him can also be broad enough for other people to relate to them and take away advice/a message.
The sides also have their own character arcs and, maybe this is bit unfair since Wrath character doesn't exist but I cant imagine an arc he could go through that isn't, again, already covered by another side.
Virgils arc was about being accepted.
Pattons about losing his black and white mentality and not being so stubborn.
Logan has one about being unappreciated.
Roman/Remus have arcs about their insecurities and being ignored.
Janus has one about not being as big of a manipulative dick /J
I cant imagine a potential character arc that someone's who main issue as Anger could possible be.
Also at what point in the story would anger or something adjacent pop up in Thomas life. Most of the issues C!Thomas is going through now are in relation to his new relationship with Nico and Thomas seems more scared of how to relationship will turn out than angry at anything.
So those are my reasons why I don't think Orange is Rage, or something similar. Some are better than others, but then what do I think Orange represents?
Orange is Insecurity
(Insecurity, Jealousy, Envy, something adjacent, but I'll stick with Insecurity)
Reason 1: Insecurity can lead to a lot of different responses, including anger.
Insecure people can often express those emotions in lots of different ways that aren't just self-loathing; they may mask these feelings of insecurity and self-doubt with a hostile mask or react angrily if their insecurity is pointed out.
This also relates to Logan's feelings of being ignored and underappreciated. My speculated reason as to why he's picking Logan instead of Roman or Remus is that the twins are rather open about their insecurities, at least compared to Logan. Roman, albeit more dramatically, has made his issues of his quality of work being put into question. Looking through the chaotic nature of it all, Remus basically introduced himself because he was insecure and being ignored for too long in his mind. Logan, however, because of his 'I have no feelings' attitude, will often gloss over his own emotions, downplay them, or just straight up not acknowledge them. So when he reaches a tipping point, being ignored too long, he has lashed out angrily before. (Learning new things about ourselves, working through intrusive thoughts, and why dating is scary, off the top of my head) It's not impossible to assume that Logan constantly being undermined might affect his own self-image.
Reason 2: Insecurity fits more on a Meta level
Everybody is insecure, at least on some level. Everybody has self-doubts and can be unsure of themselves. Entering into a new relationship can just seem to amplify those feelings and even bring new insecurities we weren't aware of to light. Insecurity reveals itself while Thomas is struggling with a new relationship, while also still grappling with the fact that he only recently accepted some of his more unappealing sides (Janus mostly, Remus is still a Work in Progress), which makes a lot of sense in context with the story.
Going back a little, each Sander's Side usually ends with some kind of message or something to glean from the episode, which would be a lot easier to make more generally appealing if the issue at hand is insecurity, as stated before, something almost everyone suffers with at some point in their life.
Insecurity can also have a lot more than just 'Insecurity'. It can also lead to self-improvement, as many people use their insecurities as motivation to improve themselves in some way (e.g., a person who is insecure about having acne might strive to get rid of it). As for character traits, Orange has a wide variety of potential traits because people deal with their insecurities differently (Though it seems for Thomas at least it's more being expressed as hostile)
Bonus: My interpretation of the Phoenix and Orange Lantanas
This is mainly from that one Orange side video I watched to refresh my mind, and here is my interpretation of how those will fit my argument.
Mainly the rebirth and transformation aspect.
Both the Phoenix in mythology and Lantanas have meanings of rebirth and transformation. How this may relate to insecurity goes back to insecurity also being a means of self-improvement because the 'dark sides' aren't 100% evil and are just more morally gray, like the light sides. Insecurity may lead you to change yourself in one way or another to better deal with your self-doubts or lack of confidence, thus allowing a small sort of transformation to be held. Lantanas are also toxic and an invasive species; however, in relation to insecurity, it is obvious that self-doubt can eat away at ones self confidence to an obsessive degree and harmful degree very easily.
AAAANNNDDD Thats the end of this very long post, it is literally 3am as I am finishing it up and I spent legit 2 hours writing on it and getting my thoughts out there.
I'm well aware my theory also isn't perfect and probably has tones of potential holes in but this was mostly just for fun. Please be nice to me and have a good night
I decided on what Sanders Sides characters would be so in Hazbin Hotel (with the exception of me adding in other characters). So, would you guys like me to draw them as Hazbin Characters??
Anya is live and ready to show you everything. Watch her strip, dance, and perform exclusive shows just for you. Interact in real-time and make your fantasies come true.
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Free to watch • No registration required • HD streaming
“What is up everybody?! Okay, things you probably don't know about me: I have a big freckle right behind my ear, I despise carrots, and I can't go to sleep without making sure my closet door is closed for fear of shadow demons and/or the Demogorgon coming in and attacking me while I slumber, the usual stuff. BUT, one of the things you most likely do know about me is that I love me some good ol' fashioned Disney.”
Roman opened the door with a grand gesture, delighted to see Virgil standing in front of it. Sure his guard was up. But that was because he was standing in the hallway in full view.
He’d been trying to use the meadow path less. Ever since it was an option he’d stuck to it for a good while, but he was trying to get out of his comfort zone a bit.
His new year’s resolution. Taking chances. Roman was beyond proud.
Virgil was a bit on his case about his own resolution of being a little kinder to himself. Something he wouldn’t admit to anyone but Virgil. Patton would shower him in affirmations and Logan would think it a cry for attention. Virgil knew what it was about and shoved him in the right direction. Or dragged him kicking and screaming.
Today it wouldn’t be needed though. Today he was more than ready to be kind to himself.
His idea was brilliant!
“Brendon Drearie! That was fast!” he exclaimed as he pulled his friend inside and closed the door.
“Hey! What’s the rush!?” Virgil wondered a bit disgruntled as he regained his balance.
“Apologies didn’t mean to drag you of your feet,” Roman joked as he let go and started pacing through the room to vent some of his excitement.
“Truly remarkable response time though,” he repeated. He’d only just sent the message requesting Virgil to meet him in his room.
“If I didn’t know any better I’d say you’re… anxious for my company,” he teased, pausing to send Virgil a wink before resuming his pacing.
“I had a brilliant idea for the next video!” he declared.
“Brilliant huh?” Virgil scoffed skeptically. That made Roman freeze in his movements. He turned to Virgil with a frown. “Are you quite alright?” he asked.
Virgil huffed. “What? Because I’m not fawning about your idea before I’ve even heard it?” he asked challengingly.
“Because you seem determined to turn it down before you heard it,” Roman said calmly. Virgil was usually more open to at least hearing him out. Maybe he was more on edge than he’d initially thought. “If you don’t feel like working on a video right now we can take a breather first. The idea will still be here when you feel better,” he suggested.
Virgil looked a bit taken aback by that. He seemed extremely on edge and… Wait.
Roman walked closer and pulled the neckline of Virgil’s hoodie to the side. “What are you doing?” Virgil wondered with clenched jaw. Roman took a few steps back and crossed his arms, quirking his brow unimpressed. “Drop the act Deceit. I know it’s you.”
Virgil’s face was overtaken with shock and then it fell to an haughty kind of annoyed expression that didn’t fit Roman’s friend at all.
“How could you tell?” he wondered as he shifted back to the demi-snakelike appearance of Deceit.
“I gave him a gift he always wears on him. I can feel its presence since I made it. You couldn’t fake it if you tried,” he informed him.
Deceit chuckled. “Impressive,” he allowed.
“Thank you. What are you doing here?” he asked.
“Just checking on something,” Deceit drawled.
Roman quirked his brow. “You came into my room under false pretenses. I deserve a little more than that,” he stated.
Deceit chuckled. “Don’t you worry your highness. I’m just looking out for Anxiety. You passed,” he allows reluctantly. “But since apparently you have invited him to come over, I should be going. And you won’t tell him that I was here. Understood?” he insisted and Roman could feel his power settle upon him.
“I have no choice I guess. But you better come clean to him sooner or later. One day you will slip up. he will put the pieces together. You are important to him. I don’t want this to hurt him,” he said.
Deceit scoffed. “Let me worry about that. Your majesty,” he scoffed with a bow before disappearing.
Roman was a bit put off at being forced to keep this a secret for Virgil. He didn’t think that Virgil would fault him for it… But it might contribute to his inevitable anger at Deceit when he found out.
A knock sounded behind him, making him jump. The garden door… Virgil was here for real this time!
Roman hurried to the door and opened it, once more excited to share his vision for the next video.
Virgil’s relationship with the others was not really any of his business anyway. He could only try and support Virgil the best he could.
The real Virgil was a lot more openminded about the idea. Roman would even dare to say he seemed kind of excited by it.
This was going to be awesome.
Prince rose up regally. “Did someone say Prince?”
Thomas looks up surprised. “N-no. And dude, you gotta stop interrupting my vlog. This is like the third one in a row you've popped up in!” he complained.
“Thomas,” Prince sighed with a bemused smile. “I'm the Prince, okay? You decided to talk about Disney, how am I not gonna show up?” He had a point.
Thomas nodded, also realizing that there was no arguing with that logic. Or at least no sending the prince away now that he was here. “Well, I was bringing it up because I wanted to talk about the many messages Disney movies provide,” he explained.
“That sounds super!” Prince declared grandly.
“I know!” Thomas said, getting back in the groove of the video. “It does. Now-”
“...califragilisticexpialidocious.” Prince added.
“Yes. So-"
“Even though the sound of it is something quite atrocious.”
“Stop!” Thomas pleaded.
And then Anxiety showed up. “Did someone say 'atrocious'?” he grinned.
“Um... Okay,” Thomas said. “But Anxiety, I gotta admit, I don't know why you are here.”
“Anxiety! For someone who claims he doesn’t want the spotlight you’ve been butting into mine an awful lot lately. Miss me that much?” Prince challenged, arms crossed and brow quirked.
Anxiety scoffed. “You wish. Thomas mentioned the Demogorgon earlier so you already had my attention,” he shrugged.
“Simple,” Anxiety said. “I, too, am a Disney fan.”
“Really?” Prince scoffed incredulously.
“What? Why is that so hard to believe?” he wondered, sounding genuinely upset.
“Disney movies just seem a little too… Bright, collorful, cutesey, optimistic for your taste,” he elaborated.
“You must not be watching the same movies then, 'cause the movies I know have much more sinister undertones,” Anxiety pointed out. Making the prince look up shocked. “Come on, Thomas,” the broody side insisted. “You must sense it. I'm just making sure you're alert to all of the messages in those films, whether they were intentional or not,” he drawls with a little devilish smirk.
“Actually, this is kind of intriguing,” Thomas muses with a curious glint in his eyes.
“Pardon?” Prince said, a little upset at the idea it seemed.
“So you think every movie has a darker meaning or a misleading message?” Thomas asked.
“Do you now?”
“Oh yeah,” Anxiety chuckled.
“Blasphemy! You besmirch the name of Disney? I am a patient man!” Prince exclaimed.
“You are really not,” Anxiety scoffed.
“But this! This is where I draw the line!” Prince exclaimed.
“Well, how 'bout this?” Thomas jumped in. “I will throw out some Disney movies and you two tell me what I'm supposed to learn from each movie,” he suggested.
“Because Julie Andrews is a beautiful goddess and because I can, Okay!?”
“Practically perfect, in every way,” Prince insisted passionately.
“Why are you only quoting Mary Poppins?” Anxiety wondered.
That little outburst got both Anxiety and Thomas a bit of guard. “O-kay... Uh, Movie #1 Cinderella?” Thomas started.
“Ha! Easy. Believe in your dreams and one day, they will come true.”
“Sure, just literally wait around your entire life, subjecting yourself to the cruelty of your ungrateful, ignorant family members, until some magical fairy comes along to save you. Don't take action yourself.”
“She had mice, too!” Not helping Princey.
“Not to mention, men can't memorize the face of a woman they've been dancing around with for hours, they have to rely on the shoe. Ergo... men are idiots.” Ow. Prince won’t like that.
“He was a very busy Prince! He had a lot on his mind!” Called it.
“Okay, let's just move to another. Um, Snow White!” Thomas tried.
“Okay, so this time the message is to NOT do what the princess did. Don't accept random fruit from strangers.”
“Or, don't eat fruit...?” Thomas suggested.
“No.” Prince deadpanned.
“No?” Why so disappointed Tommy?
“The bigger message is to just run away from your problems and become the housekeeper for seven men,” Anxiety interjected.
“Sometimes the best solution is to get out of a bad situation!” Good point.
“Yeah, I'm a Hufflepuff, I tend to run away from every situation,” Thomas joked. Hey!
Anxiety just shrugged and smirked.
“Don't make all Hufflepuffs out to be like that, Thomas.” Thank you. “Not to mention, a prince comes out of nowhere and plants a kiss on a seemingly sleeping girl? I guess consent isn't really that important.” Oooooh. That’s a classic.
“He thought she was dead! It was a farewell kiss!” Still kinda icky though… “What's with all the prince hate?” Aw, he looked genuinely hurt by that.
“Okay, well, how about something a little bit more recent: Frozen,” Thomas offered, trying to get everything on track.
“A sister's love triumphs over all!”
“And don't trust random princes. I can get behind that.” Ow. Anxiety was being savage again.
“I swear...” Prince seethed.
“Okay, let's lighten it back up with Peter Pan?”
“Relax. You’re not a random Princey,” Anxiety pointed out, leaving his opponent stunned as he shot of another argument. “Also, when Elsa passes away, Olaf's gonna die too, 'cause the magic will be gone. So just prolong the inevitable?” Oh, he did not just go there!
Thomas and Prince burst out in protest.
“Don't let your childhood spirit ever die.” Aw.
“Also, it's totally fine to believe a random stranger when they tell you to jump out the window after they've broken into your house. But I would guess that's how your whole being would die.” Noooo.
“Urgh...”
“Yikes. Okay, how about Aladdin? My favorite!” Thomas said excitedly. Also that was worth noting down…
“The value of a person is not determined by wealth. A diamond in the rough can be found anywhere, even someone who may be considered a street rat.” Very elegantly put Prince.
“And they can get what they want by lying and deceiving their way right into the castle and getting the princess.” Should have seen that coming.
“Oh, come on!” Prince protested. “He came clean in the end! He even freed the Genie!” Prince protested.
“Yeah, he did,” Anxiety allowed before going on the attack again. “But not before LYING AND DECEIVING his way right into the castle and getting the princess.” Dude is really merciless.
“Oh for crying out loud!” Prince complained.
[Anxiety]: I still like them, there's just some darker messages that we don't first see,” Anxiety repeats.
It goes into a very quick summary of fox and the hound and a terrible attempt from Prince to defend Beauty and the beast.
“Come on!” Prince pleads. “Can you really look down so harshly on these movies?”
“Bambi!” Prince shouts out, trying to find a movie that was just wholesome.
“Man is dangerous.”
“Pocahontas!”
“White man is dangerous.”
“Sleeping beauty!”
“Well, now we're back to the lack of consent with sleeping women.”
“It was to lift a curse!” Prince argued.
“The Little Mermaid?” Thomas suggested, probably feeling left out of his own video.
“Don't just sign a contract without having your mer-lawyer look over all the fine print and stipulations. That one's just common sense.” Yeah.
“Or learn to write, or use sign language. There's more than one way to tell the prince you're the girl that saved him,” Prince grumbled to everyone’s surprise.
“Oh, now wait, did I just detect a hint of sarcasm towards a Disney movie?” Thomas realized.
“Whoa,” Anxiety exclaimed taken of guard.
“Well, there's always been one or two things I've noticed. Frankly, just make it easier for the princes. We could use a helping hand every once and awhile,” Prince declared reluctantly.
“Or shoes,” Anxiety quipped. Prince simply nodded in agreement. “Or shoe yes,”
“Well then, how about we just concede that Disney movies have a lot of different, interesting messages within them?” Thomas suggested.
“Duh, that's what I've been saying. I never said Princey was wrong,” Anxiety pointed out… Huh. He didn’t.
“You didn't?” Prince asked, relaxing considerably.
“No,” Anxiety said simply.
“Well, then I suppose I shall concede a few points to you,” Prince allowed.
Anxiety grinned and started sinking out. “Great,”
“Excellent,” Prince pushed. Wanting the last word it seemed.
“Cool,” Anxiety smiled, now completely sinking out of frame.
“What am I going to do with you?” Prince sighed exasperatedly. But almost fond. Now also sinking out.
“What was that?” Anxiety wondered as he rose up again.
Prince seemed flustered. “Uhh... Chim-Chim-Cheroo,” he rushed, sinking out fully.
“Ah, Mary Poppins. Okay. Dude’s really got the nanny on the mind today,” he muttered.
“Lion King!” The regal creative called out, a genuine grin now no his face.
“Okay... oof,” Thomas sighed in relief. “Well, my personality is very weird, I'm very sorry about that.” Don’t be. “But! I hope that you did enjoy that little Disney debate. Maybe you all can think of some interesting messages from other Disney movies we didn't cover. If you do, please feel free to share them. And until next time, take it easy, guys, gals, and non-binary pals! Peace out!”
Prince has a thinking face on. “Okay, uh, how about Mulan?” he asked, seemingly enjoying this game now.
“There's never a wrong time to dress in drag,” Anxiety said simply, getting a little snort from Prince.
Leave a comment or something in the tags! Also if you guys want something specific from the fander content in this universe let me know. I give you guys glimpses but if you are curious about specific things or have headcanons of your own let me know i might use it in a future chapter!
“There's never a wrong time to dress in drag-” Suddenly to Anxiety’s shock and seeming excitement, Prince joined in. “-and do the hula! AAAAAAAAAAAAA.”
You are a giggling mess. That was amazing. You know that certain creators will be dissecting everything about this for some prinxiety (Anxiety assuring Prince that he wasn’t a random prince -ergo he didn’t think he shouldn’t be trusted?- was sure to be a big one) content as well as figuring out the character of both sides more.
You scroll a bit through your fav tags before calling it a day and then you see something interesting.
It's just a little post of someone random dumping a thought. But it has you hooked.
“Hi guys! This just popped in and now it’s all of your problem too. Prince is creativity! Prince based a character on each of his fellow sides. And he picked Anxiety to be the antagonist he has adventures with that parody relationship milestones? Could it be he was doing some wish fulfilment? Does he have a crush? Am I looking way to deeply into this? Maybe. You decide!”
Oh boy. You can practically see the fics and fanart already! This was going to be amazing!
