Kid Congo Powers Interview
Kid Congo Powers was a founding member of the Gun Club. He also played with The Cramps and Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. Powers currently fronts Kid Congo and the Pink Monkey Birds and recently completed a memoir, Some New Kind of Kick.
      The following interview focuses on Some New Kind of Kick. In the book Powers recounts growing up in La Puenteâa working-class, largely Latino city in Los Angeles Countyâin the 1960s, as well as his familial, professional and personal relationships. He describes the LA glam-rock scene (Powers was a frequenter of Rodney Bingenheimerâs English Disco), the interim period between glam and punk embodied by the Capitol Records swap meet, as well as LAâs first-wave, late-1970s punk scene.
      Well written, edited and awash with amazing photos, Some New Kind of Kick will appeal to fans of underground music as well as those interested in 1960-1980s Los Angeles (think Claude Bessy and Mike Davis). The book will be available from In the Red Records, their first venture into book publishing, soon.
Interview by Ryan Leach  Â
Kid Congo with the Pink Monkey Birds.
Ryan: Some New Kind of Kick reminded me of the New York Night Train oral histories you had compiled about 15 years ago. Was that the genesis of your book?
Kid: That was the genesis. You pinpointed it. Those pieces were done with Jonathan Toubin. It was a very early podcast. Jonathan wanted to do an audio version of my story for his website, New York Night Train. We did that back in the early 2000s. After we had completed those I left New York and moved to Washington D.C. I thought, âI have the outline for a book here.â Jonathan had created a discography and a timeline. I figured, âItâll be great and really easy. Weâll just fill in some of the blanks and itâll be done.â Here we are 15 years later.
Ryan: It was well worth it. It reads well. And I love the photographs. The photo of you as a kid with Frankenstein is amazing.
Kid: Iâm glad you liked it. Youâre the first person not involved in it that Iâve spoken with. Â
Ryan: As someone from Los Angeles I enjoyed reading about your fatherâs life and work as a union welder in the 1960s. My grandfather was a union truck driver and my father is a cabinetmaker. My dadâs cousins worked at the General Motors Van Nuys Assembly plant. In a way you captured an old industrial blue-collar working class thatâs nowhere near as robust as it once was in Los Angeles. It reminded of Mike Davisâ writings on the subject.
Kid: I havenât lived in LA for so long that I didnât realize it doesnât exist anymore. I felt the times. It was a reflection on my experiences and my familyâs experiences. It was very working class. My dad was proud to be a union member. It served him very well. He and my mother were set up for the rest of their lives. I grew up with a sense that he earned an honest living. My parents always told me not to be embarrassed by what you did for work. People would ask me, âWhatâs your book about? Whatâs the thrust of it?â As I was writing it, I was like, âI donât know. Iâll find out when itâs done.â What you mentioned was an aspect of that.
      When I started the book and all throughout the writing I had gone to different writersâ workshops. Weâd review each otherâs work. It was a bunch of people who didnât know me, didnât know about musicâat least the music I make. I just wanted to see if there was a story there. People were relating to what I was writing, which gave me the confidence to keep going.
Ryan: Some New Kind of Kick is different from Jeffrey Lee Pierceâs autobiography, Go Tell the Mountain. Nevertheless, I couldnât help but think of Pierceâs work as I read yours. Was Go Tell the Mountain on your mind as you were writing?
Kid: When I was writing about Jeffreyâit was my version of the story. It was about my relationship with him. I wasnât thinking about his autobiography much at all. His autobiography is very different than mine. Nevertheless, there are some similarities. But his book flew off into flights of prose and fantasy. I tried to stay away from the stories that were already out there. The thing thatâs interesting about Jeffrey is that everyone has a completely different story to tell about him. Everyoneâs relationship with him was different.
Ryan: Itâs a spectrum thatâs completely filled in.
Kid: Exactly. One of the most significant relationships Iâve had in my life was with Jeffrey. Meeting him changed my life. It was an enduring relationship. It was important for me to tell my story of Jeffrey.
Ryan: The early part of your book covers growing up in La Puente and having older sisters who caught the El Monte Legion Stadium sceneâgroups like Thee Midniters. You told me years ago that you and Jeffrey were thinking about those days during the writing and recording of Mother Juno (1987).
Kid: Thatâs definitely true. Growing up in that area is another thing Jeffrey and I bonded over. We were music hounds at a young age. We talked a lot about La Puente, El Monte and San Gabriel Valleyâs culture. We were able to pinpoint sounds we heard growing up thereâmusic playing out of cars and oldies mixed in with Jimi Hendrix and Santana. That was the sound of San Gabriel Valley. It wasnât all lowrider music. We were drawn to that mix of things. I remember âYellow Eyesâ off Mother Juno was our tribute to the San Gabriel Valley sound.
Ryan: You describe the Capitol Records Swap Meet in Some New Kind of Kick. In the pre-punk/Back Door Man days that was an important meet-up spot whose significance remains underappreciated.
Kid: The Capitol Records Swap Meet was a once-a-month event and hangout. It was a congregation of record collectors and music fans. Youâd see the same people there over and over again. It was a community. Somehow everyone who was a diehard music fan knew about it. You could find bootlegs there. It went from glam to more of a Back Door Man-influenced vibe which was the harder-edged Detroit stuffâThe Stooges and the MC5. You went there looking for oddities and rare records. I was barely a record collector back then. Itâs where I discovered a lot of music. You had to be a pretty dedicated music fan to get up at 6 AM to go there, especially if you were a teenager.
Ryan: I enjoyed reading about your experiences as a young gay man in the 1970s. Youâd frequent Rodneyâs English Disco; I didnât know you were so close to The Screamers. While not downplaying the prejudices gay men faced in the 1970s, it seemed fortuitous that these places and people existed for you in that post-Stonewall period.
Kid: Yeah. I was obviously drawn to The Screamers for a variety of reasons. It was a funny time. People didnât really discuss being gay. People knew we were gay. I knew you were gay; you knew I was gay. But the fact that we never openly discussed it was very strange. Part of that was protection. It also had to do with the punk ethos of labels being taboo. I donât think that The Screamers were very politicized back then and neither was I. We were just going wild. I was super young and still discovering things. I had that glam-rock door to go through. It was much more of a fantasy world than anything based in reality. But it allowed queerness. It struck a chord with me and it was a tribe. However, I did discover later on that glam rock was more of a pose than a sexual revolution.
      With some people in the punk scene like The Screamers and Gorilla Roseâthey came from a background in drag and cabaret. I didnât even know that when I met them. I found it out later on. They were already very experienced. They had an amazing camp aesthetic. I learned a lot about films and music through them. They were so advanced. It was all very serendipitous. I think my whole life has been serendipitous, floating from one thing to another. Â
Ryan: You were in West Berlin when the Berlin Wall was breached in November 1989. âHereâs another historical event. Iâm sure Kid Congo is on the scene.â
Kid: I know! The FBI must have a dossier on me. I was in New York on 9/11 too.
Ryan: A person who appears frequently in your book is your cousin Theresa who was tragically murdered. I take it her death remains a cold case.
Kid: Cold case. Her death changed my entire life. It was all very innocent before she died. That stopped everything. It was a real source of trauma. All progress up until that point went on hold until I got jolted out of it. I eventually decided to experience everything I could because life is short. That trauma fueled a lot of bad things, a lot of self-destructive impulses. It was my main demon that chased me throughout my early adult life. It was good to write about it. Itâs still there and thatâs probably because her murder remains unsolved. I have no resolution with it. I was hoping the book would give me some closure. Weâll see if it does.
Ryan: Theresa was an important person in your life that you wanted people to know about. You champion her.
Kid: I wanted to pay tribute to her. She changed my life. I had her confidence. I was at a crossroads at that point in my life, dealing with my sexuality. I wanted people to know about Theresa beyond my family. My editor Chris Campion really pulled that one out of me. It was a story that I told, but he said, âThereâs so much more to this.â I replied, âNo! Donât make me do it.â I had a lot of stories, but it was great having Chris there to pull them together to create one big story. My original concept for the book was a coming-of-age story. Although it still is, I was originally going to stop before I even joined the Gun Club (in 1979). It was probably because I didnât want to look at some of the things that happened afterwards. It was very good for my music. Every time I got uncomfortable, Iâd go, âOh, Iâve got to make a record and go on tour for a year and not think about this.â A lot of it was too scary to even think about. But the more I did it, the less scary it became and the more a story emerged. I had a very different book in mind than the one I completed. Iâm glad I was pushed in that direction and that I was willing to be pushed. I wanted to tell these stories, but it was difficult.
Ryan: Of course, there are lighter parts in your book. There are wonderful, infamous characters like Bradly Field who make appearances.
Kid: Bradly Field was also a queer punker. He was the partner of Kristian Hoffman of The Mumps. I met Kristian in Los Angeles. We all knew Lance Loud of The Mumps because he had starred in An American Life (1973) which was the first reality TV show. It aired on PBS. I was a fan of The Mumps. Bradly came out to LA with Kristian for an elongated stay during a Mumps recording session. Of course, Bradly and I hit it off when we met. Bradly was a drummerâhe played a single drum and a cracked symbolâin Teenage Jesus and the Jerks. Bradly was a real character. He was kind of a Peter Lorre, misanthropic miscreant. Bradly was charming while abrasively horrible at the same time. We were friends and I always remained on Bradlyâs good side so there was never a problem.
      Bradly had invited me and some punkers to New York. He said that if we ever made it out there that we could stay with him. He probably had no idea weâd show up a month later. Bradly Field was an important person for me to knowâan unashamedly gay, crazy person. He was a madman. I had very little interest in living a typical life. That includes a typical gay life. Bradly was just a great gay artist I met in New York when I was super young. He was also the tour manager of The Cramps at one point. You can imagine what that was like. Out of Lux and Ivyâs perverse nature they unleashed him on people.
Ryan: He was the right guy to have in your corner if the club didnât pay you. Â
Kid: Exactly. Who was going to say ânoâ to Bradly?
Ryan: You mention an early Gun Club track called âBody and Soulâ that Iâm unfamiliar with. I know you have a rehearsal tape of the original Creeping Ritual/Gun Club lineup (Kid Congo Powers, Don Snowden, Brad Dunning and Jeffrey Lee Pierce). Are any of these unreleased tracks on that tape?
Kid: No. Although I do have tapes, thereâs no Creeping Ritual material on them. I spoke with Brad (Dunning) and he has tapes too. We both agreed that theyâre unlistenable. Theyâre so terrible. Nevertheless, Iâm going to have them digitized and Iâll take another listen to them. âBody and Soulâ is an early Creeping Ritual song. At the time we thought, âOh, this sounds like a Mink DeVille song.â At least in our minds it did. To the best of my ability I did record an approximation of âBody and Soulâ on the Congo Norvell record Abnormals Anonymous (1997). I sort of reimagined it. That song was the beginning of things for me with Jeffrey. It wasnât a clear path when we started The Gun Club. We didnât say, âOh, weâre going to be a blues-mixed-with-punk band.â It was a lot of toying around. It had to do with finding a style. Jeffrey had a lot of ideas. We also had musical limitations to consider. We were trying to turn it into something cohesive. There was a lot of reggae influence at the beginning. Jeffrey was a visionary who wanted to make the Gun Club work. Of course, to us he was a really advanced musician. We thought (bassist) Don Snowden was the greatest too. Whatâs funny is that I saw Don in Valencia, Spain, where he lives now. He came to one of our (Kid Congo and the Pink Monkey Birds) shows a few years ago. He said, âOh, I didnât know how to play!â
Ryan: âI knew scales.â
Kid: Exactly. It was all perception. But we were ambitious and tenacious. We were certain we could make something really good out of what we had. That was it. We knew we had good taste in music. That was enough for us to continue on.
Ryan: I knew about The Crampsâ struggles with IRS Records and Miles Copeland. However, it took on a new meaning reading your book. Joining The Cramps started with a real high for you, recording Psychedelic Jungle (1981), and then stagnation occurred due to contractual conflicts.
Kid: There was excitement, success and activity for about a year or two. And then absolutely nothing. As I discuss in my bookâand you can ask anyone who was in The Crampsâcommunication was not a big priority for Lux and Ivy. I was left to my own devices for a while. We were building, building, building and then it stopped. I wasnât privy to what was going on. I knew they were depressed about it. The mood shifted. It was great recording Psychedelic Jungle and touring the world. The crowds were great everywhere we went. It was at that point that I started getting heavy into drugs. The time off left me with a lot of time to get into trouble. It was my first taste of any kind of success or notoriety. Iâm not embarrassed to say that I fell into that trip: âOh, you know who I am and I have all these musician friends now.â It was the gilded â80s. Things were quite decadent then. There was a lot of hard drug use. It wasnât highly frowned upon to abuse those types of drugs in our circle. What was the reputation of The Gun Club? The drunkest, drug-addled band around. So there was a lot of support to go in that direction. Who knew it was going to go so downhill? We werenât paying attention to consequences. Consequences be damned. So the drugs sapped a lot of energy out of it too.
      I recorded the one studio album (Psychedelic Jungle) with The Cramps and a live album (Smell of Female). The live record was good and fun, but it was a means to an end. It was recorded to get out of a contract. The Cramps were always going to do it their way. Lux and Ivy werenât going to follow anyoneâs rules. I donât know why people expected them to. To this day, I wonder why people want more. I mean, they gave you everything. People ask me, âWhen is Ivy going to play again?â I tell them, âSheâs done enough. She paid her dues. The music was great.â
Ryan: I think after 30-something years of touring, sheâs earned her union card.
Kid: Exactly. Sheâs done her union work.
Ryan: In your book you discuss West Berlin in the late 1980s. That was a strange period of extreme highs and lows. During that time you were playing with the Bad Seeds, working with people like Wim Wenders (in Wings of Desire) and witnessed the collapse of the Berlin Wall and the GDR. Nevertheless, it was a very dark period marred by substance abuse. Luckily, you came out of it unscathed. As you recount, some people didnât.
Kid: It was a period of extremes. In my mind, for years, I rewrote that scene. I would say, âBerlin was greatââand it was, that part was trueâand then Iâd read interviews with Nick Cave and Mick Harvey and theyâd say, âOh, the Tender Prey (1988) period was just the worst. Itâs hard to even talk about it.â And I was like, âIt was great! What are you talking about?â Then when I started writing about it, I was like, âOh, fuck! It really wasnât the best time.â I had been so focused on the good things and not the bad things. Prior to writing my book, I really hadnât thought about how incredibly dark it was. That was a good thing for me to work out. Some very bad things happened to people around me. But while that was happening, it was a real peak for me as a musician. Some of the greatest work I was involved with was being done then. And yet I still chose to self-destruct. It was a case of right place, right time. But it was not necessarily what I thought it was. Â
Ryan: Digressing back a bit, when we would chat years back I would ask you where you were at with this project. You seemed to be warming up to it as time went on. And I finally found a copy of the groupâs album in Sydney, Australia, a year ago. Iâm talking about Fur Bible (1985).
Ryan: Yes. It was part of my carry-on luggage.
Kid: Iâm sure I can pinpoint the person who sold it to you.
Ryan: Are you coming around to that material now? I like the record.
Kid: Oh, yeah. I hated it for so long. People would say to me, âOh, the Fur Bible record is great.â Iâd respond, âNo. It canât possibly be great. Iâm not going to listen to it again, so donât even try me.â Eventually, I did listen to it and I thought, âOh, this is pretty good.â I came around to it. I like it.
Ryan: Youâve made the transition!
Kid: I feel warmly about it. I like all of the people involved with it. That was kind of a bad time too. It was that post-Gun Club period. I felt like I had tried something unsuccessful with Fur Bible. I had a little bit of shame about that. Everything else I had been involved with had been successful, in my eyes. People liked everything else and people didnât really like Fur Bible. It was a sleeper.
Kid: Thereâs nothing wrong with it. It was the first time I had put my voice on a record and it just irritated the hell out of me. It was a first step for me.
Ryan: You close your book with a heartfelt tribute to Jeffrey Lee Pierce. You wonder how your life wouldâve turned out had you not met Jeffrey outside of that Pere Ubu show in 1979. Excluding family, I donât know if Iâve ever met anyone whoâs had that sort of impact on my life.
Kid: As I was getting near the end of the book I was trying to figure out what it was about. A lot of it was about Jeffrey. Everything that moved me into becoming a musician and the life I lived after that was because of him. It was all because he said, âHereâs a guitar. Youâre going to learn how to play it.â He had that confidence that I could do it. It was a mentorship. He would say, âYouâre going to do this and youâre going to be great at it.â I was like, âOkay.â Jeffrey was the closest thing I had to a brother. We could have our arguments and disagreements, but in the end it didnât matter. What mattered was our bond. Writing it down made it all clearer to me. His death sent me into a tailspin. I was entering the unknown. Jeffrey was like a cord that I had been hanging onto for so long and it was gone. I was more interested in writing about my relationship with him than about the music of the Gun Club. A lot of people loved Jeffrey. But there were others who said they loved him with disclaimers. I wanted to write something about Jeffrey without the disclaimers. That seemed like an important taskâto honor him in a truthful manner.
Ryan: Iâm glad that you did that. Jeffrey has his detractors, but they all seem to say something along the lines of âthe guy still had the most indefatigable spirit and drive of any person Iâve ever known.â
Kid: Thatâs what drove everyone crazy!
Ryan: This book took you 15 years to finish. Completing it has to feel cathartic. Â
Kid: I donât know. Maybe it will when I see the printed book. When I was living in New York there was no time for reflection. I started it after I left New York, but it was at such a slow pace. It was done piecemeal. I wanted to give up at times. I had a lot of self-doubt. And like I said, Iâd just go on tour for a year and take a long break. The pandemic made me finally put it to bed. I couldnât jump up and go away on tour anymore. It feels great to have it done. When I read it through after the final edit I was actually shocked. I was moved by it. It was a feeling of accomplishment. Itâs a different feeling than what you get with music. Looking at it as one story has been an eye-opener for me. I thought to myself, âHow did I do all of that?â
      I see the book as the story of a music fan. I think most musicians start out as fans. Why would you do it otherwise? I never stopped being a fan. All of the opportunities that came my way were because I was a fan.