#android 8

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Hasta la proxima,

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Today is Sunday chatting !

And we are going to explore a theory I learned the existence few days ago ( yeah, I tend to ship myself with him and don’t look about other ship outta here 👉🏼👈🏼) aaand honestly, Suno17 makes sense. A LOT OF SENSE !

I lurked on the internet how it’s started, and it cames first because of a Dokkan Battle event when Android 17 and Suno had sweet interactions together.

Some people are like “alright, it’s cute lol”, some will say “Dumb. Suno is not 17’s wife, it’s an another woman bla-bla-bla”.

I’m still open to see a new woman character in the DB universe, but to me, when you connect the dots, Suno17 is almost canon at this point.

Grab food, hot drinks , and let’s go deep inside the Suno17 theory !

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Who’s Suno?

Suno is a little red haired girl living in Jingle village, a snowy area with mountain and forest all around.

She met Goku while his airplane crashed and she immediately took care of him, even had a big crush on him.

Suno is very against Red Ribbon action since her village is near the Muscle Tower, where the Village Major was kept as a prisoner.

Once Goku defeated the Muscle Tower, he also helped Android 8 (the muscle tower is also where Gero works) to escape after the Android destroyed the base.

Who’s Android 8?

Android 8 is one of Gero’s experiences, supposed to be offensive. But instead, Android 8 is an adorable Android who love helping people and is very peaceful. He helped the villagers against the RR that once defeated, the villagers accepted him as a member.

Like every Android, he had a bomb that got removed by Dr. Flappe.

Who’s Android 17?

Android 17 is a “creation” of Gero, like his twin sister 18. They aren’t Android, but more like cyborg : modified human with some artificial parts.

We don’t know much about them (and I still beg for an episode about their past …) but that they were street kids doing crime to survive and that their name was Lapis and Lazuli.

Android 17 took the role of the leader once activated by Gero, followed by Android 16 who just wanted to accomplish his mission while admiring the nature and wildlife, and Android 18 who acted like the typical bored sister annoyed by her brother.

We also know that once Cell got defeated, Android 18 told him that she wanted to live her life on her own and left Android 17 alone (he saw marron once too, as a baby I suppose). Then he became a park ranger working alone.

He have a deep hate of humanity after being betrayed many times.

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When Suno and Android could have met ?

I’ll take stuff from the manga and video games for this take. I know video game is mainly non canon, but they try their best to connect with canon event, so it’s semi canon at this point.

Suno is seen in the Buu saga alongside Android 8 in the jingle village, meaning she never leaves the village.

Android 17 is seen in a forest, wearing a trench-coat in a cold area.

The jingle village seems to be constantly covered by snow and is pretty much isolated, only surrounded by mountain and forest, and to me, Android 17 was clearly patrolling near the jingle village, and probably have a small cabin for himself in the cold forest, lonely as he wanted since the Jingle village seems to be the only village in the north.

In the game Kakarot, both are located in the same area (jingle village/forest) but none mentioned each other at all.

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Now let’s pick the Dokkan Battle images.

Android 17 is clearly hesitant near humans. Between the cell saga and Buu saga, 7 years has passed.

Our man spent 7 years solo, and probably developed some antisocial/grumpy man behaviour and keep hating humanity.

Even if the lore said « 17 and 18 have no memories of their past », I refuse to believe it’s true.

Gero probably erased a good amount of memory, but it’s not impossible for 17 and 18 to have crazy flashbacks of their past life.

They were innocent streets kids with no parents (probably abusive) and nobody to help/adopt them. The system failed them, and it make sense for them to hate ALL humans after being stabbed in the back multiple times. They just can’t hate the whole human race because of one guy (Gero). They definitely suffered from abuse and gero was the last final drop.

The Dokkan battle images seems to happen during/after Buu saga.

Whatever the story (I don’t play the game, sorry), Android 17 and Suno have an interaction together, with the final message « something changed in his heart ».

Aaaaand this is where we can connect the dots !

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Why Suno17 works?

Back at the Dokkan images, Android 17 is surprised to see Suno and Android 8 being close friend and Suno told him that Android 8 is seen like a friend to her and that humanity is kinda « meh » sometimes. Which he does agree.

Now let’s talk about K18.

Android 18 was kinda attracted to Krillin and mocked him a bit with that kiss. She has the same state of mind as her brother, but « something changed in her heart » when Krillin refused to use the remote to kill her.

That’s why she came back for him and build a family with the man who saw her more than a puppet you can deactivate and destroy when she doesn’t listen.

Android 17 definitely has the same kind of thought after talking to Suno. Android 8 is a friend, not a mechanic puppet with a bomb made by a crazy scientist, just a friend.

Also, let’s talk about that card from 1996 I’ve found while thrifting on Vinted.

The title is « C-17 et ses amis » (Android 17 and his friends).

So, we have Android 18 (logic, it’s his sister), Bulma, Yamcha, Puar and Chichi, not really 17’s friend but I think he consider them since both accepted 18 in their group, then … Suno.

Yes, Suno with 17 in a card game from 1996.

I think it’s just a coincidence and they put Suno randomly because she appears at the same times as 17 during the spirit bomb, buuuuuut … why not an another Z member like Krillin for exemple?

No, it’s Suno. Strange isn’t it?

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An another thing that make Suno17 works is Franky. Franky, like 17, 18 and 16 are « failed experiments » because they don’t listen to Gero (it gives Zlatko vibes from Detroit become human).

Franky is VERY similar to 16 : scary looking robots but ended up being gentle giant who loves life and animals despite not really a « living beings » like a human.

You CAN’T tell me that 17 ignored that and was just « oh, other gero Android lol! ». He became a park ranger JUST BECAUSE of 16. That Android had a massive impact on him (I’m going to write something about it too because some people persist saying that Android 16 has no impact on 17 😮‍💨), it was someone who never armed him and his sister, he defended them, and got killed by cell (17 and 18 were able to watch the fight through Cell’s eyes). And Frankie is literally an old 16 version (I’m pretty sure Suno may have been influenced by 8 to be a zoologist in a wild area with many animals)

The fact that Suno treats A8 like a human being and Franky acting like 16 definitely made him think twice about humanity and a possible relationship (friendship or more) with someone like Suno.

Again, I’m open to see 17 with an another women, but in term of scenario, Suno is just the best choice for him. She wouldn’t judge him about his hate towards human, she wouldn’t judge him for being « emotionless » or anything.

He has the trauma to have a bomb inside of him who can explode because of a remote, like a dumb puppet we can control, so does Franky. She can understand EVERYTHING about him without any judgement, like Krillin who understands 18 because he was there since the beginning of the Android arc.

And finally, Goku. Yes, knowing Goku is important for them both, especially for the TOP arc (I’ll explain later)

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Now, let’s talk about time :

The Buu saga happened in year 774, and the TOP happened in year 780.

It means Suno and 17 have 6 years to meet, flirt, marry and have children.

To me, Suno is the one who flirted hard with 17 (she had a massive crush on Goku after rescuing him). She also took care very quick of Franky. At this point, Suno has the savior syndrome. She probably had multiple relations but men ended up being trash with her.

And yet she met a guy being lonely FOR YEARS, who has been betrayed by human multiple times, who doesn’t show that much emotion, hate small talk and who wouldn’t hurt her because he knows how it feels? Bingo, she wants to cuddle that man to make him feel better. (Who doesn’t want to cuddle him anyway???)

They probably flirted for 1 years (I believe it took time to 17 to trust her even if she’s friend with an android, and to understand his own feelings and how to deal without being awkward and making her uncomfortable ), they potentially married years 2 or 3 of their relationship, and after that, since 17 has been shown to adore children, it’s obvious they’ll try to conceive later but it’s hard for them due to 17 infertility.

Because yes, if 18 needed Bulma’s help to get pregnant, it means Gero messed up down there and destroyed their reproductive system for science. It makes sense for 17 to suffer from some kind of infertility too.

Aaaand that’s why Suno accepted to adopt, considering her age too (she’s Goku’s age, in her 30s during the Buu saga).

Also, twins because 17 wants to heal his trauma for never being adopted and loved as a kid. I believe he’s the one who suffered the most of the lack of love and attention more than 18 and that’s why he’s extreme in his position. They adopted the twins while they were babies, almost 1 years old.

Now that we are years 3 of their relationship, we need 3 years until the TOP.

During the saga, 17 asked 18 to take care of his twins who are in the age when they need to be handled, in the case he dies.

I have several friends with kids, and the hardest stage is the toddler one, around 2-5 years old.

If I’m correct in my math, his twins are around 3-4 years old when the TOP arc begins.

But the third child? Yes, 17 has a biological kid. The baby looks like an “oopsie baby”, when Suno stopped to take any contraceptive pill or using condom because both believe that 17 is infertile, minus the stress many people who wants to conceive their first baby have, while the second kids comes naturally with no stress.

If 17 asked 18 to watch his twins, it’s probably because his last child is a newborn and Suno can’t handle a newborn and 2 toddlers.

This is also where Goku intervenes.

I know, it’s dragon ball, nobody bats an eyes to see a green tall guy wandering in the street nor a third eyed guy giving martial arts lessons, so I don’t think a random woman would say anything about his husband leaving her with 3 kids to fight aliens because their universe can be destroyed would change anything to the story.

But imagine it’s Suno. Imagine 17 saying “Sorry honey, Goku asked me to join him to save the universe. I’ll try my best to protect you and our family, I promesse, they won’t hurt what we have built. Ask Franky to help you, I love you”.

She would agree immediately. She trust Goku, she trust her husband. Beautiful.

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Conclusion :

A random woman wouldn’t have the same impact as Suno as his wife. All of their background are made to be connected, a poor angry man who lost faith in everything but still wanted to contribute to something in memory of 16, by protecting animals and maybe build a family to heal his past trauma as an abused street kid, and a girl who grew up with an android, knows the menace of the RR, knows well Goku and have some savior syndrome and would be an excellent mama because she loves taking care of people? I buy, I buy the whole story.

Suno17 makes so much sense more than any other ships (Launch17, really? You do whatever you want but girly has a thing for Tien, and I speak as someone who enjoys Launch/Radditz) nor bringing a new woman into the field.

Knowing all of that, until Toyotaro say something and bring 17 back with new family content, Suno17 is 80% canon imo.

Also Toyotaro seems to like the Androids for giving us a bit of crumbs to consume like giving 17 the best character development in the entire franchise (minus the strength, he’s also incredibly smart and mature).

He also gives us Hedo, Gevo/16 and Vomit/21 in the Super movie and brings back Mai when no one asked for her.

Why not bringing back Android 8 and Suno then?

Plus, SHIT, LOOK AT THEM !!! They are so cute together!!! I headcanon their twins to have a striking resemblance to babies Lapis and Lazuli and their bio baby is a lil red head with blue eyes.

Now they have mini 16, 17 and 18 at home !!!

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It was my TED talk about “Why Suno17 works well”, thanks !

(Yes yes I know I forgot some but shhhhhh)

Keep him safe! Keep him warm!