i have so many thoughts about aggra and shit but i need to at least experience the orc heritage armour questline stuff before i say anything and make a fool of myself since apparently aggra is in fact present in those quests and i need to so how they've treated her
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Something I just wanna talk about for a bit is how much I...despise the way Thrall's 'real name' thing was handled in the novels.
We meet Aggra in The Shattering and before she's even MET Thrall, she says to Geyah that she doesn't like his name because of its origin and decides that she will not call him by Thrall, but rather by his birth name instead.
When Aggra and Thrall meet for literally the first time ever, she calls him by his birth name to his face. His immediate reaction to this is "don't call me that."
âYou are Thrall, son of Durotan,â she said without preamble.
âI am,â he replied.
âA filthy name. Here you will be called Goâel.â
The bluntness of her statement took him aback slightly. He had not been ordered around for many a year, not since he had proved his worth to the Frostwolf clan and to Orgrim Doomhammer one night long ago.
âGoâel might be the name my parents intended for me, but fate chose otherwise. I prefer Thrall.â
She turned her head and spat. âA human word that means âslave.â It is not fit for any orc to bear, least of all one who claims to lead usâeven the ones who donât live in his world.â
Thrallâs nostrils flared at the insulting gesture, and his words had a sharp edge to them. âI am warchief of the Horde, shaman, and I have made the Alliance fear the name that once meant âslave.â To them, it now means the glory and power of the Horde. I would ask you to use the name I have chosen to keep.â
After this, Aggra doesn't at all respect Thrall's wishes whatsoever, and continues to call him Go'el. From what I've read, Aggra called him by Thrall only two times since they've met, and one of those times was when he wasn't even present, and it's said mockingly to boot.
Thrall does his best to stick up for himself, but he's given no support from anyone else. Geyah, his grandmother, even starts calling him Go'el despite knowing that Thrall doesn't like it.
The thing that pisses me off so much is that we know from the Twilight of the Aspects novel that despite the time that has gone by in between the two novels, Thrall still has a problem with being called Go'el, during an argument he has with Aggra.
As always, she used the name his parents had given himâa name he himself had never used, given to him by a family he had never known. Suddenly, although she had used it a thousand times before, this time the name made him angry. âI am not Goâel!â he growled. âHow many times must I tell you to not call me that?â
Although Thrall may have "let" Aggra call him Go'el (aka he stopped arguing with her about it or only rarely brought it up), he has not really accepted it. To him, it doesn't fit him, and he's already got a name that he's gone by for his entire life, and he likes that name, so why should he change it?
The thing is, is that I'm not against letting Thrall use his birth name. It's just the fact that the way that the novels have been written, and the way that both Aggra and Thrall have been characterised has done a piss poor job in allowing it to happen naturally.
Thrall doesn't want to be called Go'el, but Aggra does it anyway. Thrall argues his reasons for keeping his human-given name, and does a pretty good job of it, in my opinion. Then he just kind ofâŚpassively accepts Aggra and Geyah calling him by his birth name by not saying anything else about it until the next novel, where he quite clearly shows that yes, he does still have a problem with it.
There are two things that I think could make this much better.
#1. Thrall does not passively accept being called Go'el. Any time someone calls him Go'el, he corrects them. He does not accept the disrespect, and refuses to take no for an answer. Because this is not about politics or saving Azeroth, where you can disagree and have a different opinion. This is about his own name, something that only he owns, and no one else. This is something that affects him and only him. He is called Thrall and that is the end of the discussion. Aggra realises she's crossed a line that she shouldn't have and apologises, and doesn't do it again.
OR
#2. Aggra does not blatantly disrespect Thrall. Instead of saying that his current name is filthy and that it is not worthy of an orc, she instead tells him about his birth name, what it means in orcish and what it could represent if he chose to use it. Thrall, as he is preparing to go on his vision quest (and during it), can naturally come to the decision on his own that he feels more like a shaman, more in tune with the elements and more like himself when he is called Go'el. If he is to use his birth name, it has to be something that he chooses himself, not something that is uncomfortably forced onto him.
Probably half the reason I'm so pissed is because, in a way, I'm projecting my own feelings about being deadnamed as a trans person onto Thrall, a character who is almost in a way, being deadnamed. He did not choose the name Thrall himself, but it is not his birth name, and though the origins of the name Thrall are purposefully humiliating and dehumanising, he makes this name into his own. He molds it to fit his image, and thus he makes people fear and respect the name Thrall. He likes the name Thrall, and he makes that quite clear.
Go'el is his birth name, and though he has never been known as Go'el (until Aggra decided he should be), even after he learns of his name, he decides not to use it. He's uncomfortable with being called by a name that does not fit him and that he's not used to. He corrects Aggra when she calls him by it, and is obviously displeased by her blatant disregard of his feelings about it.
The thing that rubs salt in the wound so much more is this line.
âDoes he still go by that hateful slave name?â
âHe does,â Geyah said, unperturbed by Aggraâs seeming rudeness. Aggra knew Geyah had realized long ago that it was easier to direct the elements to help one than it was to curb Aggraâs sharp tongue. âAnd that is his choice. Perhaps you can ask him why he so chooses when he arrives.â
Aggra says that maybe she will ask him, but she never does. At the start of the Twilight of the Aspect novel, Aggra and Thrall are arguing with each other, and Aggra tells him that he does not listen to the people around him, and even as they argue, she says that he is not listening to her, and what she has to say.
It is incredibly hypocritical of Aggra, because she never listened to Thrall's request on calling him by his preferred name, and she did not bother to even try and understand his reasons for keeping his 'slave name', like how Geyah suggested her to do.
My trans ass is just pissed off and yes Iâm projecting, but it hurts to see Thrall being so blatantly disrespected and ignored and ways that I have been. Thrall never gets to decide on his own if he likes or wants to use the name Go'el, and people around him are consistently ignoring his desires, his wishes and his requests. They ignore his reasons for keeping the name Thrall, and they disregard how being called by either names makes him feel.
It's just in my opinion disappointing to see that Thrall is not getting the respect he deserves on subjects where only his opinions should matter, since they related to him and only him, and do not affect anyone else.
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Had to get at least one WoW Orc drawn, even if my focus was more Tolkien-oriented this year! So, the amazing Aggralan of Garadar (SUCH an underrated character and more than equal to her more famous husband, thankyouverymuch).
Also drawn to go with day 27âs post, visually.
(So much has changed since they came through your inspiration back in 1937, dear Jrrt, and Iâm glad to be here to see it AND to contribute. Heavy, grateful sigh.)
~
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Swamp pls give me ur wisdom, what do u think of Aggra?
I find Aggra to be a very unlikable character. She is curt and intolerant and commands very little respect. She expresses displeasure with having to tutor Thrall but her mood never improves, even as Thrallâs abilities do. Then, somehow, her persistent sourness and displeasure with Thrall blossoms into romance.â
Golden attempted to give her some definition in The Shattering and Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects but she ultimately just served to be a crucible for Thrallâs character evolution, and now sheâs spit out a couple of babies for him and vanished from the storyline. She is only an adjunct of Thrall, and the small amount of character she does have is half nagging wife and half Mr. Miyagi. I donât know why the âstrong female characterâ trope continually falls prey to strength equaling aggression. (Oh wait, yes I do. Teehee.)
Time to bring up one of the worst quotes in any WoW novelization:Â
âŚShe had wanted Thrall to leave. She had wanted him to go for himself, and for his world, not merely for her. He recalled how irritated she had made him, with her quick wit and sharp tongue. She spoke what she thought and felt, when she thought and felt it. He remembered the unlooked-for tenderness of her protection and guidance on his vision quest, and the sweet combination of gentleness and wildness of their joinings.Â
âfrom Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects
While we are told that sheâs independent and outspoken, Aggra has zero actual development as an individual character. She didnât exist before Thrall, and she has failed to exist afterward. Whatever these thoughts and feelings are, we donât see them unless they pertain to Thrall. But at least she, um, fucks good, or whatever that âjoiningsâ shit means.Â
So we have the age-old idea that Thrall âgets the girlâ just by orbiting her sphere of influence, and that a girl worth having is willing to sacrifice whatever she needs to for his happiness and character evolution. We see in the Cataclysm questline that Aggra quite literally goes to the ends of the earth for Thrall and again, LITERALLY, picks up his pieces, and her âprotection and guidanceâ physically forms him into a better person. This questline ends with their wedding. What makes Thrall valuable to Aggra, other than him initially being her charge? She is responsible for Thrall, yet they somehow fell in love? Where is Thrallâs investment in Aggra? Consequently, where should we as an audience find investment in Aggra?
Maybe people think this is a clever way to turn the âdamsel in distressâ trope on its head by switching the genders, but thatâs not the issue. The problem is that Aggraâs selflessness being reciprocated with marriage is conflating martyr behaviorâand ultimately power imbalance and abuse [see: Shel Silversteinâs The Giving Tree]âwith that of a desirable romantic partner (or mother!!!). I wonât go off on this tangent here, but this is a mentality that breeds a wealth of sexist, toxic behavior and gender expectations, slating women as objects for men to consume for their egos. Aggraâs only demonstrated acts of love are in providing for Thrall unconditionally, even when there is very little evidence of Thrall expressing love and loyalty to her. (Not to get too personal here, but I remember once asking my abusive ex what made him realize he loved me. His answer was âBecause of the things you do for me.â)Â
This is an even more insidious âgets the girlâ trope, as Aggra makes all of the sacrifices and effort and receives marriage in return, a reward just by the merit of Thrall being a valuable man. It gives her worth as an individual (and worth to the story!) by being worthy of him. Thrall and Aggra are written as having an established romantic relationship, but the only evidence we ever see of it is Aggra giving all of her time and devotion to Thrall, and then Thrall declaring her his life-mate by the end of it on principle. This is the Nice Guyâs perceived formula, which is exactly why it is continually called out as objectifying and abusive. It is not a healthy, symbiotic relationship.
âGokuâs fucked his wife but heâs never kissed her. Thatâs Thrall and Aggra.â
â @zeyanâ
Plus, in general, transforming a mentor-apprentice or teacher-student relationship into a romantic one really skeeves me out, and one between a man and woman is especially prone to the aforementioned toxicity. Itâs a cheap way to use the fostered communication and intimacy in that relationship as a ânaturalâ way of injecting romance into a plot: they share close physical space (either in a barracks/dormitory situation or short instances, like leaning in during a meticulous demonstration), both are invested in one another, they spend a lot of time together and tackle conflicts together, and so on and so forth. The problem with this, in my opinion, is that the power dynamic is out of balance unless the student can return the favor and, in turn, teach the teacher. What lesson or personal development does Thrall impart unto Aggra? That the Horde is good and Azerothâhis planet, not hersâis worth saving? Something about patience and tolerance?Â
All we know about Aggra is what she has done for Thrall. What has Thrall done for her? How has she evolved as a person and character by knowing Thrall? What has Thrall given her? Sure, his ability to communicate with the elements after her training helped to preserve the little that remains of Draenor, but how does that translate into a romantic relationship? How does that nourish her as a person? How does that promote her character and individual growth? Helping someone save their homeland is a noble task, but trauma bonds formed in a crisis are not the most stable. Or romantic. Thrall becomes educated, cultured, changes his career, and Aggra gets to⌠be alive.Â
(Illustration by @fitzefitcherâ. Full image here.)
My point is, you could have put Drekâthar or even Rehgar Earthfuryâany other orc shamanâin Aggraâs place, and very little would change. Maybe Drekâthar or Rehgar wouldnât get as âemotionalâ about the ship being named Drakaâs Fury (âoh THRALL youâve ACKNOWLEDGED WOMEN!!! I have become EMOTIONAL because I am a WOMAN!!!!!!â), but any other orc shaman could have trained Thrall with the same result, including the Greatmother herself. Thrallâs impact on his shaman teacher would remain the same. Choosing (rather, creating) Aggra was only to give Thrall a romantic interest; there is nothing that Aggra as an individual character is capable of that other orc shamans are not, and she is not changed or developed at all as an individual character except by birthing Thrallâs children. And even then, this is not to make Aggra a mother but to make Thrall a father. Aggra only exists to change Thrallâs storyline, and hers only exists because of his.Â
Perhaps she will later be developed as a more individual entity where we will get to know her more personally, but for now she is another missed opportunity and the very definition of a âsupportingâ character.Â