#afterellen

i'm aware this is only but one gem from the absolute troves of lost after ellen content but i just learned of the existence of this video today and the fact i will never get to see it has me SICK.!

it was part of a series Cat Davis did called Cat on the Prowl: 'The straight actress wants to be gay for a day, and Cat is more than happy to oblige.'

all i can find besides this screencap is this quote someone posted to their DW:

"When you're making out, backstage with Olivia, what's that like?"

ANNE: "If she can come back to be in House's head, she can come back to be in Thirteen's bed!"

This is an interview with the creators/cast/crew of ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ where they express their opinion on what they think would happen with the lesbian subtext between Xena and Gabrielle if the show was made for today. It’s why many of us don’t want a remake or reboot or revival of it of any kind.

Do not ever come for ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ and the incredible people that either made the show or were involved in the making of it around me. You have absolutely no chance in winning the argument!

[Viewers never had to look too hard to find the lesbian subtext in Xena: Warrior Princess, but that’s still what it was: subtext. And while lesbian fans in the 1990s might not have had any choice but to settle for that, would things be different if the show were being made – or remade – today? When I attended the Xena convention in Burbank, Calif., at the end of January, I asked the show’s creators, producers, writers and stars if the world is ready for an openly lesbian relationship between Xena and Gabrielle.

“To me it was main text,” said Renee O’Connor, who played Gabrielle, in an exclusive interview with AfterEllen.com. “And even if it was subtext, it was very clear that we were together. They are so in love with each other, they love each other so dearly; there’s no way you can say that’s not true. Anyone can see that from watching the show.”

I asked her if she thought that relationship could be openly acknowledged if the series were being made today. “I don’t know,” O’Connor answered. “Maybe there’s a little bit more hint of acceptance today. Maybe, maybe not. You can only put it up and see what would happen. I guess we could do anything, just get it out there and see how it affects people.”

In a lot of ways, Xena flew under the radar during the ’90s. Viewers who didn’t perceive (or didn’t like) the lesbian subtext could see it simply as a story about heroic friends righting wrongs and battling villians. If the show were being produced in today’s post—L Word television landscape, it’s hard to believe that audiences would be quite as oblivious.

But O’Connor doesn’t think that a more overt presentation of Xena and Gabrielle’s relationship would have changed the moral heart of the series. That’s because she sees those two things – the love between Xena and Gabrielle and the series’ focus on the fight against evil – as inextricably combined.

“If we were just starting Xena right now, I know what the relationship of the two characters is,” O’Connor said. “So even though we wouldn’t blatantly talk about all the issues involved, because I don’t think that’s what the show is about, it’s still about defeating oppressors and wanting to do the right thing for the world. And that comes down to these people and how they love each other.”

Lucy Lawless, who played Xena, isn’t sure how acknowledging a romantic relationship between the two women would affect the show’s reception if it were being made today, but it could have changed the way audiences perceived it in the past.

“There might have been more general discussion about whether the characters were lesbian or not out in the mainstream,” Lawless said. “In the 1990s, when this was all new, people like Ellen [DeGeneres] and k.d. lang and all these people who are out were blazing a trail. And you might hope that it’d be done long ago. But in a lot of the world, it’s still incredibly painful to come out, even today.”

Then she laughed. “But let’s have a go. Let’s do it. Why don’t we make a Xena movie? Just tell a bloody good story and let the fires and torpedoes be damned.”

A Xena movie doesn’t seem any more likely today than it did a year ago, but I asked Lawless if she thought the sexual relationship between Xena and Gabrielle might be brought more into the forefront if a movie were made.

“I think that’s a good question for Rob,” she said, referring to Rob Tapert, the series’ co-creator and her husband. “I know he’s been thinking about this for a long time, mulling it over in the back of his mind. He’s got a great feeling of where the world’s at and what he can make that’s progressive and gutsy and still have it be financially successful.”

Backstage at the convention, Tapert considered the possibility of a more openly queer Xena and Gabrielle. “It’s a tricky question,” he said, “because if Xena were being made today, well, there’s two different Xenas. There is the one [in which] people could read between the lines, and that played to one audience.

“Then there’s one that played to kids, or that played to 9—17-year-olds. And they didn’t understand the subtext, nor did they get it. So like the finest of Disney films, that plays to all audiences; that was a balance we tried to find. Making it today, I don’t know what would happen.”

He called series co-creator, producer and writer R.J. Stewart over to ask his opinion. “Could there be more commitment to the subtext?” Stewart said. “Well, I think if it was a cable show, absolutely. But if it was the same kind of broader market, I think you have to be more inclusive. But yes, absolutely, I think that a cable version of it could work that way.”

What if a film were made today, based on the series? That would be a different proposition, Stewart said. “When you make a movie you always try to stay pretty close to the original in feeling.” Then he laughed. “Now, if you could just get Oxygen to order some episodes …”

However much fans might wish for another season of their favorite show, not even out lesbian Xena producer and writer Liz Friedman (pictured left, and currently a producer on Fox’s House) thinks it would come back as an ancient Greek action-adventure version of The L Word.

“As much as I would love to see it – and I’m speaking as somebody who watches The L Word obsessively – there was something really wonderful and romantic about the relationship between Xena and Gabrielle,” she told AfterEllen.com. “And I think it’s actually easier to have romance without sex. You don’t then get into issues about ‘Will this relationship last?’ There was never – well, until they started killing each other’s children – the question of a breakup.”

I asked if she thought that times had changed enough that a series could now be made with two legendary female heroes shown unambiguously as romantic partners.

“If you look at the lesbian relationships that are on TV now, it’s either niche-market stuff like The L Word, or it’s Cashmere Mafia that gets you all excited because there’s a kiss in the pilot, and then by Episode 3 she’s hitting on boys again,” Friedman said. “Certainly in a single-lead action show we’re not ready for an openly gay heroine yet. Well, I think we’re ready for it. I don’t think the networks are going to let us do it.”

Then she laughed. “Look, obviously I’m biased. I loved the show the way it was, so it’s like, don’t talk about messing with my Xena. It worked pretty well, thanks very much. … If I were doing the Xena movie I would try to get there to be a kiss, but there are plenty of ways that you can do that without changing what the relationship is.”

That raises the question of just how much would have to change in order to bring the subtext into the forefront.

It’s undeniable that there are some scenes – and even whole episodes – where it’s hard to make sense of what happens without believing that Xena and Gabrielle are at least a little bit more than friends. Most of the time, these moments occur in the more humorous episodes, but as series writer Steven Sears told AfterEllen.com, “We didn’t cross the line completely but … these are two women who live together, travel together, had domestic duties together, die for each other, fought for each other, continually say how much they loved each other, but no. They’re not in a loving relationship.”

Steven Sears talking with Christie Keith

He shook his head. “Excuse me?”

Writer Katherine Fugate (currently executive producer of Army Wives) sees it much the same way. She is the author of “When Fates Collide,” widely considered one of the most subtext-friendly – and romantic – episodes in the entire series.

Katherine Fugate

Set in an alternate universe where Xena’s old enemy, Julius Caesar, has imprisoned the Fates and used their loom to undo the events that led up to his assassination, “When Fates Collide” is about the inevitability of both destiny and love.

In Caesar’s new reality, Xena is his empress. A famous Greek playwright named Gabrielle comes to present her latest work to the Romans, and in the greatest romantic tradition, she and Xena are struck with what can only be called love at first sight.

They gaze at each other across crowded rooms. Xena casts tortured glances at Gabrielle when she is called away by her husband. They stare longingly at each other from their balconies in the moonlight. Xena gives her life to save Gabrielle, and Gabrielle risks destroying the entire world to save Xena’s.

Caesar calls Gabrielle Xena’s “girlfriend,” and his violent jealousy would make absolutely no sense if Xena and Gabrielle weren’t being depicted as lovers.

And, in fact, that’s just how they were being depicted. Fugate appeared at this year’s convention and spoke with AfterEllen.com backstage. “The paradigm in my episode was that they find each other in any lifetime and they were meant to be, no matter what body they were in or what gender they were,” she said. “These souls were entwined somehow. And that, to me, almost has more a spiritual connotation than a sexual one, although I personally believe that they were lovers and had a committed relationship.”

She added: “I think we touched people, and it was multifaceted with all the spiritual components as well as the love. But the love was so intense, and ‘We’ll find each other in any lifetime,’ I think, is profound. I don’t know many shows that say that, period, heterosexual or homosexual.”

Given that, it’s surprising there wasn’t a kiss in the episode, something that had been played with both teasingly and tenderly (if briefly) in earlier episodes.

“There was a kiss written in which was more definitive, and it’s in the script that they sell here [at the convention],” said Fugate. “So my intention was actually to push that envelope, and I was really supported by Rob and R.J. and everyone. But ultimately they pulled it, because they wanted to maintain it for the finale.”

The finale is, of course, a sore spot for Xena fans; mention of it during R.J. Stewart’s appearance triggered the only boos of the convention weekend. He took them in stride, defending his decision to kill Xena at the series’ end, but there’s no question it took the shine off the climactic kiss the two women shared in “A Friend in Need.”

Fugate, who announced at the convention that Renee O’Connor will play a lesbian on Army Wives later this year, is optimistic about the possibility that a show about two female heroes who are openly lovers could be made today.

“This may sound like a writer’s answer, but I think anything works if it’s well-written,” she said. “If you have respect for the subject and if you can find a universal theme, anything will work.”

She said she feels that doing that would be easier today than it was in the ’90s. “We probably couldn’t push the envelope as much then as we could now,” she said.

“The subtext issue gets asked a lot; I think everyone here has been asked about it. And I think that’s because it obviously touches people, and we had an opportunity to dignify these relationships. And everyone felt it did that. I think both the lead actors have come forward and said this is how they view their characters and how they played them. We did what we could.”

If they did what they could in the ’90s, what could they do now? Sears said he’s thought a lot about that question, and he’s not optimistic. “As far as the marketing mind is concerned and the studios,” he explained, “if a movie came out they would play with it, they would toy with it, they would try to appeal to the male heterosexual audience, because in their minds that’s who’s attracted to these kinds of films, these action films. They don’t want to turn those people off.”

Then Sears pointed out the dark side of main text. “The horrible thing that might be done is that they would then say, let’s go completely commercial with this thing,” he said. “They would have the characters kiss, have the characters imply that they had a sexual encounter, and then have them realize, well, that was just an experiment. Now let’s go back to men. That’s the worst possible thing that could happen. But it’s also one of the most possible things that marketing could do.”

In light of those fears, a dozen intimate moments in the hot tub, soulful glances and fireside nights spent in each other’s arms don’t seem so bad. And neither do Renee O’Connor’s final thoughts on how Xena might best be made today.

“I always wanted people to look at it as unconditional love,” she said, “especially people from the conservative side who didn’t want to see anything like that. Just watch the show, and see what you want to see. I still think that today that would be the best way to put the series on.”]

SOURCE: https://afterellen.com/bringing-out-the-warrior-princess/

AE: You two have such a natural chemistry; did you know each other before AMC?

CBL: No, we didn’t. We’re both from a theatre background, though, so we have a lot of mutual friends.

SG: I came to the show in November and – Christina doesn’t know this – after being around her for a little bit, I thought, “I like her; we’re going to be friends.” We liked each other right away. We were talking about that at the Christmas party and said, “You know, we should have a love story.”

CBL: I thought that was a great idea!

In response to what many perceived as a betrayal of lesbian and bisexual viewers, Killing Eve fans mobilized. They organized a crowdfunder. The GoFundMe campaign – titled ‘Villaneve Deserved Better, #KillTheTrope!’ – has raised over three thousand euros. More than half of its final goal. And the money has already been put to good use. The group behind it released a press statement explaining what they hope to achieve: “The team decided on billboard, because ‘Bury Your Gays’ trope is bigger than just Killing Eve fandom. It has affected LGBTQ+ people since the Hays code in Hollywood that was introduced in the 1930’s. With billboard there is maximum exposure to the public, not just the fans. We demand better treatment of LGBTQ+ characters on tv and movies, enough is enough!” The first billboard is in London, near the River Thames, where Villanelle died. It can be found at 53 Aldgate High Street. The billboard reads “Let the trope sink to the bottom of the Thames”; a reference to Villanelle’s shocking fate. And that of countless other lesbian, gay, and bisexual fictional characters.

Shemar Moore Tests His Criminal Minds Co-Stars with Toothpick Math Riddles on the set of “Remembrance of Things Past” 6.03