#adowtalk

I was discussing with some discord mates the other day, about how old the vampires are in all souls trilogy. So after some research, I compiled a possible timeline.

**slight Time’s Convert spoilers**

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Around 4000~5000 plus years ago:

- Last of the Bright Borns died out (old age or being hunted down or went into hiding).

- Philippe was reborn.

Note 1: No creatures seems to know Bright Borns even existed. So they likely went into hiding or died out long before any living vampires in All Souls were reborn (with exception of Philippe).

Note 2: Philippe was likely reborn during this time, since Ysabeau mentioned that Philippe was a seasoned warrior when he killed her sire and was strong enough that no one dare challenge his words. He likely was at least 1000~2000 years old at the time of rescue.

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Around 2500~3500 years ago:

- Ysabeau was reborn.

- Philippe led an army to hunt down Ysabeau’s maker and the rest of the blood raged vampires.

- Martha was reborn.

Note 3: Ysabeau said she was born in a time where ‘mystical’ creatures like griffins, centaurs and dryads are real, and have enough knowledge to teach Philip “How to Train Your Griffin 101”. While the other vampires don’t seem to have that knowledge, so likely Ysabeau was much older than them.

Note 4: Martha was there to guide human Ysabeau through her seer training, so they should be roughly the same age (give or take a decade or two).

Note 5: Martha was there for Ysabeau after her ordeal with her maker, someone had likely turned Martha for Ysabeau’s sake later on (20-40 years after Ysabeau’s reborn)

Note 6: From the All Souls Guide book “Marthe’s origins are in the mythological dawn of civilization”, likely before a proper written history, guess that’s around 1000~1400 B.C.? (used the time period because people used to think Troy was a myth, which turned out to be true)

Note 7: Unclear if Hugh was reborn before or after Ysabeau. I’m guessing before? Since Ysabeau was having a difficult time for hundreds of years after her ordeal, Philippe was likely to sire a son amidst of that (TC makes siring a new vampire sounds like a lot of work lol). Guess Philippe could have waited over a thousand years to sire another son?

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Around 2000 years ago

- Miriam was reborn.

- Baldwin was reborn. (September 52 B.C.)

Note 8: According to the All Souls Guide, Miriam was already more than a thousand years old when she mated briefly with Bertrand, who sacrificed himself for Matthew in the 11th century.

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Around 1500 years ago

- Matthew was reborn. (A.D. June 15, 537)

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Around 1300 years ago / 8th century

- Hugh and Fernando was mated.

- Gerbert was reborn. (A.D. 740)

Note 9: Hugh was killed in 1314, and they had 6 centuries together.

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Around 1200~1300 years ago / 8~9th century

- Domenico was reborn.

Note 10: In the ADOW outtake, Domenico was described as a few decades old when Matthew was centuries old.

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Around 900 years ago / early 12th century

- Benjamin was reborn.

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Around 700 years ago / 14th century

- Hubbard was reborn. (c. 1349)

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Around 400 years ago / 17th century

- Jack was reborn. (August 8, 1603)

- Juliette was reborn. (Late 17th century)

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18th century

- Marcus was reborn. (October 16, 1781)

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Side Note 1:

The de Clermont family and vampires working for them are likely ancient vampires, older than other vampires by hundreds even thousands of years. Probably a statement of how the de Clermonts survived and prevailed numerous vampire wars.

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Side Note 2:

Gods, Goddesses, heroes and kings in mythologies were possibly creatures like Bright Borns or vampires.

Given Bright Borns can live for hundreds of years without aging, they could seem like immortal in human eyes (especially when average life expectancy was around 60). Plus them having magical powers would surely make them god-like to humans.

I’ve started writing a fanfic, so I was rereading (again) to find new perspective. Then I noticed something - in the books Philippe was linked (to certain extent) to Hercules. And Hercules was famous for his 12 Labors which he started as penance.

Which got me thinking - was getting the creatures together Philippe’s penance? Perhaps he wanted to bring the Bright Borns back into the world?

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Him rescuing the witches during WW2 always felt off for me. Philippe by all accounts was indifferent towards witches.

He never even wanted to help Diana in 1590, and only changed his mind because of Ysabeau. Everyone including Baldwin, who was described as extremely observant, believes Philippe disliked witches.

So why did Philippe went in the camp alone during war times to rescue a bunch of witches?

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Philippe was passionate about setting up a safe haven for all creatures in Jerusalem a thousand years ago, even though creatures were likely as ill at ease with each other as they are today.

And when the plan inevitably fell through, the congregation was set up and the creatures demanded a covenant made to ensure there will be no mixing of creatures. Philippe made sure the de Clermonts would have the power to overturn said covenant, even after his death.

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He also gone out of his way to protect Diana, including making her his blood sworn daughter. A move that would not only ensure Diana’s safety in the 1590s, but also allowed her a seat in the congregation, which she used to overturn the covenant later on.

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Philippe also made sure that Diana would be protected in the future even before her timewalk.

The knights of Lazarus was set up by Philippe, which the grandmaster has power even over the de Clermont sire. The title in logic should be passed on to Baldwin, as Philippe was its grandmaster before. But not only did he pass it to Matthew instead, he made him promise to never let Baldwin be grandmaster.

Which made little sense, the brotherhood didn’t exactly flourish under Matthew’s lead. In fact there were only 8 knights left in 2009, compare to thousands it once had.

One of the reasons I could think about was that he done so to protect Diana and her relationship with Matthew, ensuring the twins would be born one day.

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Also, Philippe has taken an interest in Jack, he made a point to visit and get to know Jack after he was reborn. A privilege only reserved for a precious few, Philippe likely had hundreds of grandchildren, Marcus alone had dozens left in New Orleans.

Marcus was at least favoured by Ysabeau (whom he was devoted to and would do anything to keep her happy), Jack on the other hand was practically a stranger, barely linked by blood. Biggest difference? Jack has blood rage, a quality that would allow him to father Bright Born kids.

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Conclusion:

There was a brief moment, after watching the show, where I felt a bit sorry for Satu. Knox seems to have out shined her in terms of wickedness. It appeared as if Knox had been using Satu, like he did with Gillian and many others. That Satu might have done all that out of fear.

Then I remembered something....

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In the books at least, weavers can’t use spells created by other witches, they have to create their own spells.

Stephen had his familiar to teach him how to weave spells. Diana had teachers.

But even then Diana and Stephen were never described as good with witchcraft, in fact Stephen was described as ordinary by Sarah, definitely not powerful.

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It’s not clear who taught Satu to create spells, but at the very least her family must have known she’s different.

Satu likely grew up like Diana, hiding her powers from everyone, living in fear that she’ll be hunted if discovered.

But unlike Diana, Satu was fortunate. She at least learnt enough to not only pass as a regular witch, she was powerful enough to be chosen as a congregation member.

So unlike Diana, Satu had her weaver thing pretty much put together. No one was hunting her, or even suspects her. After all it was witches who elected her into the congregation.

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Even she doesn’t seem to fully understand, she definitely had a inkling that Diana’s power was similar to hers. Which makes the reason behind her kidnapping and torturing Diana even more unforgivable. She either:

A. Wanted Diana’s powers for herself, like show Satu said.

B. Wanted to use the opportunity to gain more power in the congregation.

C. Get whatever she can out of Diana and get rid of her before others have a chance to examine her, in order to keep her own secret. (Which is less likely, because if she truly feared exposure that much, she would have killed Diana instead)

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After Stephen, Diana and Satu are likely the only two weaver left in the modern day. Given her position, she more then likely have the means to help Diana. Or at least stand aside and let things play out.

But instead she chose to torture Diana for her own gain, all on her own - siding with Gerbert and Domenico instead of Knox.

I was listening to “baby it’s cold outside” and thought - that’s so like Baldwin.

Baldwin said a lot of things in the books, but then his actions can’t be more different.

Exhibit A:

“I’ll never accept a witch as a de Clermont”

> went put Diana’s name in the congregation pedigree

Exhibit B:

“No way I’ll allow a tainted bloodline to form a scion”

> wrote and signed all the paperwork needed and hand them to Matthew

Exhibit C:

“Those children are an abomination”

> he sure was having fun playing with Rebecca

Then it dawned on me. Philippe had thousands of years to solidify his power, all creatures are more or less afraid of him. So he could break rules and semi-openly protect Diana and Matthew.

But Baldwin was head of family merely 60 something years, which is nothing in vampire years. Likely not enough to solidify his own power.

Gerbert and the others are obviously making moves, gunning for more power. Satu and Knox trespassed all over sept-tours without much care. Also someone was clearly spying on them in some way. Creatures are practically walking all over him, circling, waiting to take over his power.

Moreover, since the people under Baldwin’s commands are mostly vampires. Given the animosity between vampires and witches, he probably can’t openly support Diana and Matthew even if that’s what he wanted. Not without risking losing all control, which won’t help the situation.

I know this isn’t a popular opinion, but I always see Philippe as a toxic parent. He might be a charming politician and strong leader, all his children loved him dearly, but that doesn’t make him a good father.

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*Point 1*

Philippe treated Fernando horribly.

As Fernando mentioned in TBoL, Philippe only ever used him as an unpaid servant, which I very odd.

Every member of the family served a purpose, some as officials in court, some as spies, some do trades, they all have some form of respectable job befitting their talent and their status as a de Clermont (which is practically royal).

I simply refuse to think Philippe couldn’t think of anything else other than a servant. Even if Fernando didn’t have any skills he deemed worthy to begin with, Hugh and Fernando were mated for 6 centuries, surely he would have picked up something useful during that time?

The decision seemed to be deliberately made to demean Fernando. (Perhaps he did not like their mating?)

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*Point 2*

Philippe used his children without a care for their emotional state.

Matthew was in a lot of ways emotionally troubled, even before his reborn, he felt a tremendous amount of guilt for the deaths he caused (or at least believed he caused). In TBoL Matthew revealed that he remembered by heart every single name of Marcus’s children killed in New Orleans, even those he wasn’t responsible in killing. (He likely had no intention of killing the vampires not infected with blood rage to begin with)

But what job did Philippe made him do? Assassin.

Ysabeau told Diana in ADoW that Matthew had periods of dark times, which Philippe forbade her to inquire about. Even Philippe admitted that he worried about Matthew’s phyche, that he was burdened with guilt. Surely a creature smart as Philippe, would realise making Matthew an assassin eould throw him down the deep end?

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Whereas Gallowglass was tasked to spend 4 centuries endlessly waiting, searching for Diana, an unattainable love which Philippe was fully aware of.

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*Point 3*

Philippe (knowingly or unknowingly) pitted his children against one another.

Philippe clearly played favourites, he was very tolerant with Matthew’s mistakes. For example he was forbidden to make his own children because it would expose Ysabeau as a blood rage carrier, but Matthew made Benjamin and Marcus anyway. Both cause untold troubles as expected, both were allow to live on despite that, and Matthew recieved no actual punishments for it.

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Whereas Louisa who threatened and harmed Diana after learning their mating was particularly banished and left for dead. Louisa, as Matthew said, never intended to kill Diana, she simply wanted to scare her off. And guess who else tried to scare Diana off after learning their love? Almost every single one of the de Clermonts they encountered - Ysabeau, Philippe, even Matthew did. Granted she injured Diana, but that’s hardly a capital offence?

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The de Clermonts had clearly feel this favouritism at play. Gallowglass mentioned that most de Clermonts, like himself, didn’t get a chance to go to university. It’s not like the de Clermonts don’t have the money or means to do so, they simply didnt get the chance because they had to work tirelessly to complete whatever job Philippe stuff down their throats.

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Conclusion:

Philippe was a problematic, borderlining toxic parent.

Hamish: chop, chop, ain’t got all day. I’m a busy daemon.

It’s not clear in the books how the vampires and witches hated each other so much. And both parties seems to be more or less ok with daemons.

So here’s some of my thoughts.

Sarah mentioned that witches can’t heal vampire bites, and that’s why they are weary of vampires.

Witches’ magic is faster than vampires. And witches were much stronger in the past.

It’s likely vampires and witches were enemies because they have the power to keep each other in check. Thus no trust.

Where as daemons don’t seem to have any supernatural defensive/offensive powers. Likely a vampire or witch can squish them with ease.

Fernando: Thought you are suppose to keep Diana and Matthew’s stuff from the past save. How did you manage to lose everything?

Gallowglass: err....things happened?

- Flashback -

Gallowglass: House cleaning time~