it's just that like. if I were writing a story, and somebody said, "I think that character in your story is a trans woman," and I didn't want them to think that. I would probably avoid a scene where I have someone hand that character a trans flag and call them princess. And I wouldn't change what pronouns I use for them, or have them tumble out of a closet at their introduction. Oh and I wouldn't have a scene where they get really excited about the idea of being a princess instead of a prince
I would probably avoid a scene where I have someone hand that character a trans flag
The trans flag is blue, white, and pink. The drink voucher is blue and pink. Blue and pink are Kris's colors. Flowery even tells Ralsei not to worry about Kris and to focus on his fave. Ralsei has themes of longing to be a player 1 and have agency (things Kris has).
and call them princess.
Flowery and several other characters, as well as the game UI, refer to Ralsei in male terms after (and within!) the voucher scene. Flowery also calls Kris a princess -- is Kris now a girl?
And I wouldn't change what pronouns I use for them
This hasn't happened. There's a neutral reference in the UI and Asgore they/thems him because they aren't familiar. Other "binary" characters (such as Undyne) are also referred to with they/them.
To further that no actual pronoun switch took place, check the JP version. Asgore refers to Ralsei with masculine pronouns. This is a stark difference from how Kris is normally referred to, which is with their name or neutral pronouns.
Or have them tumble out of a closet at their introduction.
You open several closets before you get to Ralsei and all of these closets are said to be full of "useless objects", something to that effect. Then Ralsei, who believes he's an object, falls out of one. Also it's a wardrobe, actually. Crazy to insist people lack media literacy when you yourself didn't seem to clock that.
Oh and I wouldn't have a scene where they get really excited about the idea of being a princess instead of a prince
Ralsei likes being feminine and has worn ribbons since chapter 1. He's been called feminine terms before, like bimbo (as a joke, admittedly, but Flowery calling him princess was to tease him). That scene was fanservice.
There's pushback on Tralsei because you guys claim what's just a headcanon is a true theory with textual evidence, but it plainly isn't. Tralsei supporters purposely misinterpret scenes or work backwards from the premise of him being trans, which isn't good media analysis. Toby has been so blatant about other LGBT themes (genderless ghosts gaining gender, Suselle) so it makes no sense that he would be this subtle about Ralsei.
Blue and pink are Kris' colors. ... Ralsei has themes of longing to be a player 1 and have agency (things Kris has).
oh Kris? you mean the openly, textually, blatantly nonbinary character who is (very likely based on Mancountry and the pizza deodorant) AMAB like Ralsei? and who frequently expresses their gender with their outfits, including feminine ones?
Flowery and several other characters, as well as the game UI, refer to Ralsei in male terms after (and within!) the voucher scene.
yeah because by this reading Ralsei is still in the closet. trans folks still in the closet use pronouns according to their assigned gender actually.
(on pronouns) This hasn't happened. There's a neutral reference in the UI and Asgore they/thems him because they aren't familiar.
the UI which, up to this point, has very insistently gendered Ralsei as a boy, a prince. is it not significant that that pattern is broken? as for Asgore, he also then immediately says "I hope they know they don't have to hide themself."
To further check that no actual pronoun switch took place, check the JP version.
you know this game is originally written in English, right? you can't "well in Japanese he's still a boy" for a work that wasn't originally written in Japanese.
Also it's a wardrobe, actually.
decent point, if a bit pedantic
He's been called feminine terms before, like bimbo (as a joke, admittedly, but Flowery calling him princess was to tease him).
and why does Flowery tease Ralsei, exactly? to get him to admit that he is a person with wants and needs, e.g. "Then what... DO you want?" on the staircase. and, again, this is the same chapter where Ralsei openly admits to being super excited to being called a princess. when Flowery calls him princess, he doesn't even have a rebuttal; he just blushes super hard and looks aside.
...you guys claim what's just a headcanon is a true theory with actual evidence, but it isn't.
i would actually argue that the transgender readings of these scenes is more straightforward, what with how much chapter 5 says about gender and sexuality in general. also, like, how can it be "just a headcanon" if so many fucking people arrive at the same conclusion based upon the same evidence? surely that would indicate that, at the bare minimum, this is a theory worth discussing and not dismissing out of hand.
Tralsei supporters purposely misinterpret scenes or work backwards from the premise of him being trans,
do you have actual evidence of this happening? because, to me, it seems equally silly to assume Ralsei's cisgenderness and disregard any and all text that points otherwise.
oh Kris?
Yes, that Kris. I'm glad you realize that. I don't know about Kris being AMAB (or why it matters -- we don't actually know that Ralsei is AMAB) but if that's your view sure.
and who frequently expresses their gender with their outfits, including feminine ones?
Deltarune is a game where men wear tutus and women call themselves kings, and wear pants and suits -- to be honest, it's pretty touch and go with gender. Gender doesn't really seem to matter ^__^.
you can't "well in Japanese he's still a boy" for a work that wasn't originally written in Japanese.
If Toby genuinely meant for the they/them's in the English version to signal a pronoun/gender switch and be part of a larger arc about gender, there's just no way he would've left that out of the JP version, AKA the version roughly half of the fanbase is going to play.
It's important textual evidence that Ralsei is questioning his gender, specifically, right? Why would JP people be left in the dark?
and why does Flowery tease Ralsei, exactly? when Flowery calls him princess, he doesn't even have a rebuttal; he just blushes super hard and looks aside.
You might not like this, but it's probably ship bait. In the game files, do you want to know what the sprite is called where Flowery lifts Ralsei's chin?
AGO-KUI.
He teases him because it's meant to be flirtatious.
This is basically like another form of kabedon. He called him princess in the same way the trope he's based off of (prince types in Shojosei works) call people princesses. It's flirty. It's not a sign that Flowery is trying to get Ralsei to realize he's a girl, he's just fucking with him. Again, wanting to mess with Ralsei is why he tossed Ralsei into a wardrobe full of useless junk at the chapter's start.
ACTUALLY ON FLOWERY he says stuff like 'JARONA' and 'Flowers blooms in your heart (this isn't proper English!!)' and even Seth complains that Flowery is a dummy who never says stuff right, I just...?
