Realm of Wonder

///If you don’t mind, I would like to keep this conversation going.

///here’s how I see it. When it came to trust within this circumstance, it was in a circle. The warriors four trusted Thor to recruit Loki, Thor trusted Frigga to let Loki help with the entire plan AND Jane. Another thing I saw was happening was the way priorities being
kicked into place. Considering the dark elves’ attack on Asgard. 
As for the plan, I’m sure Thor told the warriors how he was going to recruit Loki. Thor recruited Loki so Loki could get vengeance. Although I do agree that the writing does have plot holes, they do make it clear that he wants vengeance for the Death of Frigga and no longer the acceptance or kindness of the warriors four. I don’t think when Thor pushed Loki out of the dark elf ship, it was him trying to make him not betray him. I think he was just trying to lose those Asgardian soldiers shooting at him and change to the boat. Actually, it was probably a good thing that they didn’t act nice to Loki, because I think they knew he could see through that. Besides, Fandral’s comment didn’t seem much of a threat to his life, but even he chose not to fake kindness. Also, I think one of the reasons why the warriors’ mistrust Loki is the fact they may not have truly known him. And because Thor trusted Frigga and her faith in Loki, it might have gave him enough courage to throw caution to the wind and give Loki those chances of betraying the thunderer. Of course, it definitely seems ironic. But they trusted Thor and the fact he knew what he was doing, which also meant trusting Loki to follow through. So, I think the point is the fact they were desperate enough to trust Loki because of Thor, but not enough to bribe him with kindness. I agree on that there are many plot-holes. There should have been more edits to the writing rather than the many deleted scenes because a lot of things in my opinion went unexplained. And yes, I see now that desperation could not have been the only motivation. That point was kinda weak. But it does enforce my recent point the circle of trust that seemed to be happening.

[I do wish to point out that your meta consists of many statements of ‘I think’ and your first ‘here is how I see it’, which all state that your meta is just your interpretation of the happenings/reasons. Though you are certainly allowed to have your opinion concerning the happenings in Thor: TDW, I was not referring to my opinion of the film in my first meta, I was referring to what was actually taking place/what the characters were doing/the flaws in their logic. :)

“The warriors four trusted Thor to recruit Loki, Thor trusted Frigga to let Loki help with the entire plan AND Jane.”

Thor did infer that Frigga trusted Loki, but Thor later revoked that statement and thereby negated his confidence in Frigga’s trust in Loki when he told Loki, “You had her tricks, but I had her trust.”

In light of Thor’s later statement, Thor’s trust in Frigga’s trust is nonexistent. But even if we go on the assumption that Thor is confident in Frigga’s trust, it still does not make any sense for him to spend the rest of the film affirming how much he distrusts Loki and treating Loki less than kind.

“I don’t think when Thor pushed Loki out of the dark elf ship, it was him trying to make him not betray him. I think he was just trying to lose those Asgardian soldiers shooting at him and change to the boat.”

The wording of my meta response was erroneous in this portion. My point was that pushing Loki backwards, shackled out of the Dark Elf ship is an mean/unkind thing to do, but despite this unkindness and others (such as shackling Loki, consistently talking about not trusting him, allowing Sif and Volstagg to threaten him) Thor expects Loki to carry how Loki’s part of the plan. So despite not treating him well, Thor expects/demands Loki to perform appropriately.

“Also, I think one of the reasons why the warriors’ mistrust Loki is the fact they may not have truly known him.”

This is a good supposition, but regardless of their possible reasons, the Warriors 4 have consistently mistrusted and disrespected Loki without viable excuse. For example, In the first Thor film, they instantly suspect him of letting the Jotuns into Asgard and without any proof, except their own suspicious/opinions and with Heimdall’s treasonous support, they commit treason against Loki (and Odin) as king to go to Earth.

“Actually, it was probably a good thing that they didn’t act nice to Loki, because I think they knew he could see through that. Besides, Fandral’s comment didn’t seem much of a threat to his life, but even he chose not to fake kindness.” &  “So, I think the point is the fact they were desperate enough to trust Loki because of Thor, but not enough to bribe him with kindness.”

I never suggested bribing Loki with kindness or showing him false kindness. I said that it would make more sense to treat someone you expect to help you nicely, or if you prefer, with respect. Having false kindness would be the same as treating them with open disdain. It would have been better if the Warriors had simply treated Loki well, with no disdain and no false kindness. Threatening his life is not treating him well. Unless you are someone like Thanos, and torture/mistreatment is in your style (see Gamora’s comment regarding Thanos torturing her) and you are going to use it to cow opposition out of fear, using force and threats is hardly the heroic, good, or sensible thing to do in a situation where you are demanding Loki fulfill an essential part of the plan.

On a side note, you will notice in my first meta that I said only two of the Warriors threatened Loki’s life, i.e. Sif and Volstagg. I am glad Fandral did not threaten his life, or fake kindness toward him, but mocking Loki, after he was pushed backward, shackled out of the ship and therefore landed ungracefully because of it is, not respectful nor nice. Saying nothing would have been better in Fandral’s situation.

If the Warriors being nice would have been false because they are incapable of feeling anything but disdain for Loki, they should simply have said nothing at all.

“But it does enforce my recent point the circle of trust that seemed to be happening.”

I do not see how the circle of trust justifies treating Loki disrespectfully when they are demanding/wanting him to perform well or justifies Thor repeatedly insisting he does not trust him while trusting Loki with his life, his back, and his mortal girlfriend’s life.

Since Thor’s trust in Frigga’s trust does not actually exist, per his comment that “You [Loki] had her tricks, but I [Thor] had her trust.”….I am very much failing to see how it justifies Thor’s verbal mistrust and then complete and total physical trust. Even if this circle of logic did exist, why are the warriors threatening Loki in attempts to keep him from betraying Thor, and why does Thor treat Loki the way he does, but still expect him to perform appropriately? If they trusted Thor, and thus Thor’s trust in Frigga, why do they still feel the need to threaten?

My final point is that despite all of the comments from Thor, and the threats/mocking from the Warriors,

A. Thor must actually trust Loki more than he wants Loki to believe, and therefore his comments about mistrust are either for his own benefit (to convince himself he does not trust Loki when he actually does) or to make jabs at Loki (Thank you to @krakensdottir for the latter comment/idea.)

The movie didn’t have as many “plot-holes” as loki-the-god-of-menace thought. As seeing that the movie had reasons to support the rude behavior objected toward Loki and in the first ‘Thor’ movie AND in the AVENGERS, it doesn’t quite make sense to argue that ANYONE should be nice to the bastard. I would recommend you actually and thoroughly watch Thor, The Avenger’s, and Thor: TDW before countering my argument. If you decide to do otherwise, I will know you didn’t watch it. I feel it stupid to write down the entire synopsis of each movie where Loki has proved repeatedly that he is unhinged, untrustworthy, and dangerous. Please, actually watch the fucking movie to understand why everyone including Thor not only treated him like shit, but DOES NOT TRUST HIM AND ARE JUSTIFIED FOR FEELING SO. 

*rolls eyes*

If you believe Loki should be actually treated nicely after everything he has done, I’ve got some really hard-ass questions for you to answer. 

Let’s give you a scenario based off the movies, shall we? :)

If your sibling (which he did, in fact let the Jotuns into Asgard to steal the Casket of Ancient Winters {I believe the Jotuns, since it was their artifact, had every reason to take it back}) constructed a situation in where he knows you well enough to get you to react the way he/she wanted you to to get what he wants, would you believe that he was being funny or something, or (as a sane person would see it) would believe your sibling being a manipulative fuck? They don’t have to know the ultimate consequence of what their manipulation invoked, but is this not a form of manipulation? ESPECIALLY, WHEN THEY ADMIT IT?!

Now, here’s another question, would lying to your sibling about a parent’s passing be another form of manipulation? (I would hope your answer is a yes, because if it’s anything but, I would lose all faith in humanity. Look up the word ‘lie’, and if you still don’t believe it’s an action to manipulate, god help you).

Another question, how do you justify your sibling attempting to kill you? (even if he isn’t biological, even if you were lied to about being biological to him {Note: Thor was not fucking aware of the fact that Loki and him weren’t related! Odin lied to the both of them, for fuck’s sake!}) Why isn’t this a reason for trust to be broken after literally almost dying more than once by your own sibling’s hand? How do you justify someone killing another (whom they had thought to be related to) because they aren’t related to them? And how do you justify someone not fact-checking to make sure that person (Thor who had been lied to as well about being related to a jotun when he wasn’t) didn’t know they weren’t related to them too? <--- I’m dying to know what thoughts this arose.

With each of those questions, I hope this would shed some light on how ridiculous it would be to actually think that trusting someone after literally EVERYTHING THEY HAD DONE would make sense. Seeing as often, Loki aroused some of those conversations that turned into trust conversations and then some of the mistrust mentioned in the movie was clearly the disappointment in which Thor felt in regards to Loki. Thor was hurt that after everything, literally doing nothing to his brother, (besides locking his crazy ass up) his bro still hates his ass. Remember, though, why does Loki hate Thor? Because, Loki feels that Thor is not fit to be king, hence his attempt to show that when he let the Jotun’s into Asgard to steal the Casket of Ancient Winters. 

I’m sorry, but leave Heimdall out of this shit. In Thor, Heimdall did not help Loki whatsoever in regards to letting the Jotuns in. 

      No. 

As a matter fact, here’s the kicker. If you watched the movie, you’ll see the scene where Heimdall told Loki that he didn’t even see them nor Loki during the time of trespass. WHAT’S HEIMDALL’S FUCKING ABILITY — LIKE LITERALLY THE REASON HE’S THE GATE-KEEPTER?! I’ll remind you. Heimdall could see into universes! He could see literally EVERYTHING. 

Now, with that being said, who are the two people in Asgard known for their practices in magic? Obviously, Frigga and Loki, right? My question to loki-the-god-of-menace, where do you NOT see the evidence? Considering the fact there was no trace of any kind as to how they got in, where don’t you see the evidence? What is pretty much traceless? MAGIC. Who can control magic? Frigga and Loki. AND WHO WOULD DO SOMETHING TERRIBLE LIKE THAT?! WHO IS KNOWN FOR THEIR MISCHIEVOUS BEHAVIOR MORE LIKELY TO DO SOMETHING THAT EXTREME? If you say Frigga, I’m leaving...

Love quotes? Here’s one for you. <3

Loki: What troubles you, gatekeeper? Heimdall: I turned my gaze upon you in Jotunheim but could neither see you nor hear you. You were shrouded from me like the Frost Giants that had entered this realm. Loki: Perhaps your senses have weakened after your many years of service. Heimdall: Or perhaps someone has found a way to hide that which he does not wish me to see. Loki: You have great power, Heimdall. Did Odin fear you? Heimdall: No. Loki: And why is that? Heimdall: Because he is my king, and I am sworn to obey him. Loki: He was your king. And you're sworn to obey me now. Yes? Heimdall: Yes. Loki: Then you'll open the Bifrost to no-one! Until I have repaired the damage that my brother has done!

Heimdall: Tell me, Loki, how did you lead the Jotuns into Asgard? Loki: Do you think the Bifrost is the only way in and out of this realm? There are passages between worlds to which even you, with all your gifts, are blind. But I have need of them no longer, now that I am king. And I say, for your act of treason, you are relieved of your duties as gatekeeper and no longer citizen of Asgard! Heimdall: Then I need no longer obey you! [draws his sword]

Have a fucking dialogue.

By the way, this was after Thor was cast out of Asgard before the Warriors 4 actually thought the situation through. They are the Warrior’s 4 because they can solve problems, fucking hell. It wasn’t disrespectful of them to assume it was Loki to do something vile such as that. Loki built his reputation of doing some pretty bad shit! It was rightly so, and it turned out to actually be true! So, with all of this in mind (let’s not forget that Loki tried to destroy an entire race because he was upset he was one of them or whatever his borderline personality thought of for the reason to destroy them), they had every right to threaten his life, say they didn’t trust him, and other! The crazy thing I see missing in this debate was that, LOKI KNEW IT AND DIDN’T GIVE A FUCK!

Not a damn rats ass did he care! Why? Well, for starters, I’m going to say this now, loki-the-god-of-menace’s point was all over the place and didn’t make sense since what the blog was saying in regards to Loki being likely to do something if he was treated nicely for it was an irrelevant argument to make because he ended up doing it anyway and happily. He didn’t do it for respect, his brother, or for the Warriors 4, or for their approval, (although he loved the shit out of Frigga {god rest her soul}) he kind of did it because Malekith killed his mom, but he ULTIMATELY went through with the plan because he could escape! If he did everything he was asked of him to do for Thor, Thor would believe he died trying to do the right thing, Thor would no longer see too much of a threat for Asgard and not come home right away to notice that Odin had gone missing and Loki was sitting at the throne drinking wine and having his toenails painted. (Toenail and wine part didn’t happen. Literally, just adding some humor. But he did take the throne of Asgard). 

So, doesn’t this make sense now? Loki couldn’t careless about being treated nicely, in fact, in the Avengers when Thor and Loki were on Stark Tower, Thor was practically begging Loki not to fight him. If that’s not niceness and showing a branch for trust, then I don’t know what the fuck is. It was clear Loki cared fuck all about being treated nicely. Loki is a genius and for this argument to take place, for the point of treating Loki nicely to get him to do stuff, just doesn’t go by the Loki we all know and love. He took the opportunity to help Thor because he knew he could escape easily. Not for hardly any other reason besides, avenging his mother’s life.

And lastly, need to make this point extra clear. DESPERATION DOES NOT BY ANY MEANS EQUAL TRUST. Here’s the damn definition of desperation:

des·per·ateˈdesp(ə)rət/

adjective

feeling, showing, or involving a hopeless sense that a situation is so bad as to be impossible to deal with.

Thank you, Google Search.

Desperation has nothing to do with trust. If you watch the movie, it’s pretty clear Loki was the last resort for help and that was why Loki said that ‘Desperate’ bit. Trust invokes expectation, they literally didn’t expect him to go through with it. THAT is why they threatened his life, that is why Thor said he couldn’t trust him. BECAUSE, with trust, you assume you know the person well enough to follow through with something. If you don’t know if he will betray you or not, you can’t trust him simply because there’s no expectation he will. It was merely hope they had that Loki would follow through, but their hope was trusting in faith that somehow the universe would make it in such a way that Loki would do the ‘right thing’ (which, he went through with the plan and ended up betraying them again by hiding Odin and taking the throne) — not in Loki. Humans were made in the image of Gods so why would they think differently?

Another definition to back my argument:

trust`trəst/

noun

1.firm belief in the reliability, truth, ability, or strength of someone or something."relations have to be built on trust"

To end this of, I think loki-the-god-of-menace made some good points here and there, but it simply fell through because the blog’s statements of the movie weren’t accurate. There were a lot of holes in the blog’s own statements that saying that the movie had the holes itself seemed highly inappropriate. As for thexhvedrungr, I agree with loki-the-god-of-menace with the ‘I think’ and such phrases. Although what that blog said was actually fact, it was misleading when stated as an opinion; however, has anyone ever used ‘I think’ as an attempt to be nice? I don’t know, I saw it that way and that’s my opinion, but because I know the movie really well, I saw that as a gentle approach to put some balance in to what loki-the-god-of-menace stated. Maybe not balance, but throwing some fact in there to simply show that what was being said was missing info or just completely incorrect all together. 

Bedroom

I’m going to tag a few blogs instead, only because they are so deserving but thank you so much for sending me this! ♥

He looked all around before her again to give her an answer. Although the home was lovely and extravagant, it wasn’t exactly his style. He absolutely appreciated her sense of design, though. He’d be lucky to have a woman that can add a bit of spice to a room, because he knew he was as boring as cardboard.

“This is quite a lovely home you have here. Highly impressed with how well decorated every room is. If you ever see my home, it’s as boring on the outside as it is in,” he says, looking into her eyes as he spoke. He slid his hands into the pockets of his khakis and tilted his head toward her. Just a moment where his eyes drifted down to her v-neck top, glancing at her cleavage before continuing, “I see why you’d have a business such as yours. It’s pretty easy to get cozy in here with all this room. Do you mind if we settle on in the living area for a while? Just to sit and talk, maybe?”

Originally posted by celebritiesinspire

When she finished work around five, Dove drove home with her head in the clouds.  She showered and re-curled her hair, chose a jacket, tank and jeans that fit her body in a snug but comfortable way and chose a pair of matte black stilettos.  She texted Denim her address and couldn’t wait for him to see how she lived.. a small mansion with a guest house?  It might be too much for the man of the inquisition.  At seven sharp, she saw his car roll up in her drive since she had left the privacy gate open and she smiled against her door.

As he walked to the door, he adjusted his tie and brushed off his jacket. Clearing his throat so that when he spoke, it wouldn’t choke trying to speak to the lovely lady leaning against the door. Hopefully, that smile meant she was impressed with his get-up. Damn, it was quiet gorgeous, though. It made his heart grow a few sizes larger.

“I was beginning to wonder if I had gotten the right address,” he said, smiling down at her once he approached her, “You have quite a lovely home, ma’am.”