no one bats an eye if a man says he doesn’t want to be penetrated or have his nipples touched or something. of course, that’s natural, he’s a man. but when a woman says it, it’s weird and wrong, because she’s a woman, of course she must desire sex in that way.

Men actively seek out liberal/leftist women and try and influence them towards the center then even further towards republican/conservatism

Men actively seek out atheist/agnostic women and try and get them to join or convert to their religion

Men actively seek out lesbians and female leaning bisexuals and try to turn them straight

can a surrogate safely "quit" in any real sense? can they safely get an abortion? can they quit after 4 months? can they quit after 9 months? do they get to clock out after 40 hours a week? do they get breaks? do they get a union?

If you want to read more from someone who has experience being a surrogate you can read this speech

You’re looking at this from a perspective of pro-choice reproductive rights on the women’s part, which is good in general but is not the actual problem we’re discussing with surrogacy

It’s not choosing to be a surrogate that’s wrong, those women are either desperate or trying to do something kind. it’s the intent to pay another human being to rent their reproductive capacity that is wrong - no one needs a child that is biologically theirs, and only people with a slave owner mentality think its their right to buy one

Surrogacy is not a right or freedom that needs to be protected, it’s an act of reproductive and economic exploitation, and even when it is a choice freely made and compensated for (which it very often is not, in many places it is coerced or even forced, and it is always underpaid) the women involved face a tremendous physical risk to their bodies and their lives

Pregnancy is a nine month long 24/7 full body experience that is one of the most dangerous things you can do. Maternal mortality rights are on the rise and higher now than they’ve been in decades. There is always the very real chance of disability or death for women who carry to term, no matter how slim

With the harm it can cause in mind, much like the nordic model that criminalizes buying sex but not selling it, surrogacy should absolutely be harshly restricted. You shouldn’t be able to legally inflict the harm of pregnancy on a person for money, and it should be a crime to try and do so. Consent can’t be meaningfully purchased.

And I think your argument really falls apart even more in the second half

Because I’m not by any means saying women aren’t smart enough or capable enough to be able to make the choice to be surrogates. I’m saying those choices are not made in a vacuum, and are rarely as truly voluntary as they would like you to believe. People knowingly make decisions against their best interests and well being every single day. We restrict things that cause great harm not because we think people are too stupid to know better, but to protect them from people who don’t care about their safety. This is basics of society level stuff, laws and order and public health and welfare.

Anyone who wants to can make the choice to do hardcore party drugs or drink and drive or do target practice in your back yard, but those things are illegal because they can literally kill you.

Furthermore It’s illegal to buy someone’s organs on the black market, even if you really need a kidney and they’re willing to sell you one. It’s also illegal to keep someone as a slave and not pay them for their work, even if they don’t seem to mind it and wouldn’t try to escape. It’s illegal to sell crack to addicts, even if they feel like they need it more than anything.

If women really want to make money off of their reproductive capacity, im sure there are still many places in the world where they would be able to do so and people would be willing to look the other way to purchase a child, no matter how unethical and harmful it would be to both the mother and the baby.

No matter where you go there are always people willing to hurt women for money

can a surrogate safely "quit" in any real sense? can they safely get an abortion? can they quit after 4 months? can they quit after 9 months? do they get to clock out after 40 hours a week? do they get breaks? do they get a union?