torta y bisexual al mismo tiempo

Love, grief, and magic in the mundane

Remember when the United Nations put out a vote to recognise the transatlantic slave trade as the gravest crime against humanity and only three countries voted against it? Those countries being The US, Israel and Argentina?

Sorry, this is about football.

Remember when Maradona openly talked on TV about how Argentina roofied water bottles to give out to Brasilian players in the Turin World Cup of 1990, and one of the staff did give a Brasilian player a bottle and he felt faint on the field?

Oh but that's too long ago, my bad. Remember these from last WC?

Zero cards given for those three, btw.

Oh, and what about this cup?

And just last night, from the lovely fans of the lovely team

Do we want to speak on what Bolsonaro said about black people for years and how many people still support him in Brasil?

I dont care about futbol. You can see in the blog how i dont want Argentina to win because i dont like them as a team anymore for politics. Because i can see it and i fucking hate it. But i cant sit here and let you guys pretend that Argentina is the only one with dirt when every latinoamerican country has racist, xenophobic, transphobic, antiblack, homophobic people. Making Argentina the only villian is just a scapegoat tactic to avoid awknowledging the issues of every country. You want to pick a side more than fix the damn issues.

Sure, maybe what we're receiving outside of Argentina is only the top percentile of the worst of the worst, but there's still a reason why for decades the overall fame of Argentinians to the rest of Latin America, even when completely isolated from external influences (I'm talking personal interactions and real life experiences) is 'the Europeans of South America'. My entire life I've always heard, and I know this is a common experience for Latines all over the world, that Argentinians consider themselves Europeans and don't consider themselves Latines like the rest of Latam. This is not from propaganda, this is from people that have traveled to Argentina, and people from Argentina that travel here. And yeah, we can even have a conversation about who considers themselves Latines or not, a lot of Brasilians do not consider themselves Latines, not due to thinking we're European, or 'wanting to be European' like some said in this post (although sure there are a lot of those too, unfortunately) but due to feeling othered or left out for not sharing the language like the rest of Latam, so they consider themselves simply Brasilian.

Bolsonaro was a terrible president and is an overall a bad person and yeah, there's still a lot of people who still support him, but get this: currently he is not the president, currently he is serving time for his crimes. CURRENTLY no one over here who's against him when hearing how bad he is says 'well, he's bad but other countries also have bad people too' that's not the slay you think it is. How hard is it to own up to your country's mistakes? I know that a lot of Brasilians are right wing and racist and homophobic and all that which wasn't even in question for your gotcha, but MOST of us don't deny that these things exist here. We don't go around saying we're not a racist country, or that racism doesn't exist or 'but other countries also are racist', in fact, we made racism a crime that puts you in jail, and the reason why it is a crime is because it NEEDS TO BE A CRIME, because we do have a big problem with racism over here. I don't need to point fingers when accused/when my country is accused, to dissuade my guilt and lower the weight, because yes, we have a gigantic problem with these things, we own up to it. At least those of us that want to be better.

And it was a post about the world cup, so yeah I talked about world cup situations that represent why I will never cheer for Argentina. And I limited it to a handful of world cup situations where all except one the TEAM (with FIFA backing also) presented deplorable and unsportsmanlike behaviour. These are some reasons why people currently don't want to support the Argentina team. Never said YOU are cheering for the country or doing these things, but the post was "it's lame that latinos don't want to cheer for Argentina/are saying they'll cheer for Europe" and I listed reasons as to why people are against Argentina in the cup.

Considering being Brasilian I could have pulled dozens and dozens of situations outside of the world cup (copa america, sulamericano, libertadores, etc, even european competitions cuz it reaches all the way there) where Brasilian players have been the target of racism directly from Argentina in some way. Whether it be playing in Argentina, playing against Argentina, playing against Argentinian teams, even Argentinian individual players; from players and fans alike. Most recently, or at least most famously recently, Vini Jr in February during a Champions League game was called a monkey in the field by Argentinian player Prestianni (who, mind you, plays for a Portuguese team, guy went all over to Europe to be racist). You want to talk about patterns? Now I will NEVER say that it is only Argentinian players or fans that are racist, that would be insane of me, I'm not blind. But there is, unfortunately, a CONSIDERABLE amount of instances where these attacks came from Argentina.

And if we are talking history and football, which we are, HISTORICALLY IN FOOTBALL, Brasil and Argentina have had the biggest rivalry at least in the Americas since the 1920s (if you want to look truly into it outside of football sure there are geopolitical and historical reasons for it all that are more to do with both countries trying to consolidate themselves as the leading south american power than the US pitting us against each other, but most brasilians don't care about the politics of it only the football). Brasilians only do two things during the world cup, and that is: 1 - cheer for Brasil; 2 - cheer against Argentina. So to be mad at a Brasilian for stating they're against Argentina is as nonsensical as being mad at Tom for being against Jerry. We have never needed any right wing propaganda, for Brasilians, when it comes to football, when it comes to the world cup, Argentina has always been the main villain (it was the only villain until that 7x1). We're not scapegoating, we're not just now creating a villain to avoid anything, this is our narrative, our history, for over 100 years now, and it will continue to be way after the world cup ends, and into the next one and the one after that and so on and so forth.

Now personally, I enjoy football and I enjoy the world cup, and I like to experience this event when it comes around, and I like to watch as many games as I can, and I have always decided on a team to cheer for at each game based on different criteria over the years, regardless of criteria, one thing has always been unchanged and that is that Argentina is the one I want to lose the most, the very bottom of my list. I will cheer against every coloniser and against every country that has wronged us and against countries that have history of being shit or with players that are dicks, but all bets are off when Argentina steps on the field, because honestly, the day I cheer for Argentina is the day I renounce my citizenship. (Unless it's like the US or Portugal, then I'll just hate regardless and cheer for them all to get fucked).

And finally and most importantly, you don't have to read anything else I've said up until here, but just know this: no hard feelings to any individual person, but as a Brasilian from a coastal city that gets a lot of Argentinian tourists in the summer, I have never in my life needed Europe or the US or the fucking Pope to tell me how to feel about Argentina, because Argentinians have always done a phenomenal job on their own.

What I don't understand is why you ask people not to generalize Brasil while constantly generalizing Argentina.

You say your experiences with argentine tourists don't represent the whole population, but then you use football incidents, online behavior and historical controversies to justify judging the country as a whole. That's the double standard.

If brazilians shouldn't be reduced to Bolsonaro, racist fans or violent incidents because Brasil is more complex than that, then argentinians shouldn't be reduced to racist chants, internet clips or an unproven allegation from 1990 either. Either individuals represent themselves, or they represent their countries. The standard should be the same for everyone!

And I wasn't talking just about myself I was also talking about the person before me who you told to fuck themselves (and in general all brasilians who've been getting this kind of response), a person speaking in Portuguese about how they'll choose Europe over Argentina.

I didn't say don't generalise Brasil, I never said that here or in other posts, I said the generalised image you're portraying is wrong, and that we don't deny our mistakes and our history in the way that I have seen you guys doing. You came in with a gotcha with Bolsonaro, and I said that he doesn't represent the country CURRENTLY as he is not the president currently, but that you are right that a lot of people believe his line of thinking. But we have a population of over 60% black people, if anything, shouldn't the generalisation come from a representation of the majority?

I was talking about situations that would lead people to not want to support Argentina, and that paint Argentina badly, sure as both a team and as a country because a lot of people are using politics to decide who to cheer for, including current political events. I didn't intend to actively generalise Argentina as a personal opinion, but rather was painting a picture of the image that it has for the rest of latin america.

And I didn't use the football incidents to judge the country as a whole, again, I was talking about reasons why people might not want to support the team. I literally said 'I could have used these' to generalise but didn't, it is the truth that a lot of racist attacks towards brasilian players and fans have come from Argentina, and when I said Argentina, like I said before I was using interchangeably, I didn't mean the population as a whole, I meant the people playing for and supporting Argentina the football team. I was specifically talking about football and I'm sorry I didn't make that more clear. Fact of the matter is that unfortunately football culture is very racist, there are a lot of chants and otherwise behaviours that are normalised in the name of rivalry, and that is not cool in the slightest and I do hope to see change in this. I don't even believe Argentina is the most racist country within football literally Europe exists, I only said there were a lot of cases from Argentina. But I was talking about Argentina, and not any other country, not Brasil's problems, not France's, not the US, the conversation wasn't about which country was worse, just reasons why people don't want to support THIS ONE at the cup.

I only mentioned my personal experience to showcase that I, like every other Latin American, can have our own experiences that inform our own opinions and it is misguided of you, if not disingenuous, to insist that our views come from what the Usians or Europeans have to say. To believe that any animosity amongst ourselves within Latin America have started off or exist in a vacuum of social media's opinions from other continents is to deny our own agency and experience with each other.

I don't believe all of Argentina and individual Argentinians should be reduced to the behaviour within football or any individual situations any more that I believe that every individual Usian is personally responsible for say ICE, but I do believe that patterns of behaviour and repeated occurrences reflects a society and a system that enables those to continue to happen.

Oh, and finally, again that's partially on me for the clarity part, I wasn't saying that WE - BRASILIANS know Argentina better than the rest of Latam, I meant that WE - LATIN AMERICANS know Argentina better than Europe and the US does, as in only we latin americans can trash each other, but what the fuck does England knows? You know?

"We dont deny our mistakes and our history like you guys" the "we" is generalized. I could bring up the point that Brasil never recognized or apologized for what they did to Paraguay in the war of the triple alliance, unlike Uruguay and Argentina. Brasil even denies sending back stuff they stole in that war. What about that? I cant say with honesty that we dont deny our history or mistakes. I know i dont and many others dont. But i know argentinians that do. Cleaning your hands from the mess of your country while pointing out others doesnt help nobody. Ive seen brazilians and others support Germany agaisnt Argentina only for that team to win and make racist remarkrs towards sudamericans. But nobody talks about that.

which country among the last 4 remaining would you most want to see win the world cup?

england

argentina

france

spain

i don't watch the world cup

Shane: listen I like you and I think you like me too

Ilya: ok SO WHAT. What are we gonna do. Hold hands?? Kiss on the ice?? Get married?? Have three kids and a vacation home in the Dolomites because I know you’d love the skiing there?? Whisper to each other each night how lucky we are to have found each other? Die hand in hand like the end of the Notebook? Don’t be RIDICULOUS Hollander how could you even think about these things

Next up someone is going to claim that the Narnia series isn't kids books.

Yuna: "But you hate him"

Shane: "No, I get that, but no. I love him."

"Argentina is racist" there are racists, yes, like everywhere. They are loud, like everywhere else. Right now there is a US backed right-wing government that Is fucking us over, like in half the world.

"Argentina is white" we had a huge wave of european migration, yes, as well as jewish, arab, chinese, african and from the rest of latam. We also have multiple indigenous peoples and cultures that first lived here. The afroargentinians had a huge impact on the independence and foundation of our nation and culture. The myth that argentina is white is promoted by right-wing groups.

"Argentina is full of nazis" the nazis came to Latin America (not just Argentina) through the back door in secret and had to change their names, unlike the US which gave them jobs at NASA.

By the way, this is not unique? A lot of countries had similar experiences in their histories. But somehow Argentina gets all the bad rep.