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The analysis ended up way more big than I imagined, so I split in 2 posts. 

Reading some pages and forums I always found a discussion about Jeno, Jaemin and their relationship. People always discussing if it’s just friendship, just a ship, or if there’s really something real in that, and I really want to give my contribution to that ‘cause everything may come to add is good, valid and worth discussion. So here I go.

I’d like to start saying that it’s my opinion, and a speculation. I’m not affirming anything, I’m just saying my way of interpretation of things that really happened. You don’t have to agree, I only ask for respect.

Since when I got into NCT this two boys always caught my attention, first separately, and then together. I don’t know what’s more interesting in that group seriously, Taeyong and his fascinating self discover, Jaehyun and his journey of trying to put on a facade and failing, Mark and everything that he may be or may not be, or Jaemin and Jeno with their really blurred and questioning (for lack of a better word) relationship.

I want to talk about them individually first, to sustent what I have to say about the couple. Some “ship analysis” fall on the ground when you realize that they only act like that specific way with that person or situations. What I’m trying to do is explain why I think that Jaemin and Jeno have romantic feelings for each other so having a introduction of them separately is good to see them together better.

Starting with Jaemin.

We all know and agree that Jaemin is really good and seems to enjoy fanservice a lot. I always thought that this was the way he relied on to build his place in the group again. Jaemin was away from the NCT activities from more than a year, he basically debuted and was that. When he came back was in a moment where all the units were interacting together, the group was huge, and with other super charismatic members debuting at the same time he was coming back. So he had to do something to catch the fandom attention, make people like him, conquer his space and be close with his members. He is naturally positive, bright, extrovert, caring, lovely, sweet, touching and all, so I think this was really easy for him. That is not a persona he created to perform as idol, I really think is pretty much natural and comfortable besides all the fanservice things that we all know where resides because that just how he is, who he is.

Even before the debut Jaemin already were the boyfriend material kind of idol just like he is today. But I don’t think that everything that he says and does is fanservice at all (with the members). He seems way more to be type to take advantage of this to do and say things he wants without being taken too seriously, having this joking air, like “I’m doing this just for the fun. For the entertainment” The boy has a huge curiosity and very obvious interest in other boys and I think that this is a thing about himself that he started to explore now. Maybe he discovered that when he was in medical leave, maybe before, idk. The thing is that he lives surrounded by interest, attractive, beautiful and familiar boys, so the members are his material of experimentation and is quite interest and fun to watch.

He is really flirt and confident about it. We see him doing without shame with Jeno, Renjun, Mark, Jungwoo, Jaehyun… I said that he is experimenting flirting with the others members, but for me he seems to know what he is doing, and where he wants to go.

What I think is that he is trying to figure out is what type of boy he likes, how he wants to a relation to be (in all senses, romantically, sexually…). He knows he likes boys, he is confident about this. His experimentation is to found out how he wants to expresses himself sexually, what kind of boys he is attracting and wants to attract.

He seems to like to be more active, dominant, the one who takes a first step. He likes to make the boys flustered in every way he could think of, and have so much fun doing it. Jaemin, imo, gives this impression that he likes to be more on command, have the things under his control, the one that is causing an effect in the other. Just like when he out of nowhere said that he and Jisung were wearing couple shirts. Or when he said to Mark give him a kiss when his coming of age party happens.  Or 90% of the things he says and do towards Jisung (who is not very receptive of skinship). Him trying to kiss Jaehyun, and with Jeno (who definitely is his favorite “victim”).

Most of the time he is the one who starts the interaction, but when it’s not him, he always makes sure to give a response more intense and turn the “game” to his favor. And there’s a LOT of moments like this.

Jeno and Mark are the ones who get flustered more easily, so he messes around with them more. He also is really fond of Jisung but I don’t think that is nothing more than hyung-dongsaeng relation. And he is really closer to Renjun too. And more than just the things he says he has other ways to get in the hyungs.

Jaemin is really hard to fluster, he says a lot of cheesy things without shame while everyone is cringing, and do aegyo very easily. But there’s at least three times when he was really shakened. One was when he was keeping his face really close of Jungwoo’s, then Jungwoo suddenly turned and just blowed a kiss. The boy panicked. The second was with Jungwoo again, in a similar situation.

And the other was in “I love you game” when he lose just to look at Ten’s face, more precisely the way Ten looked at him (the video didn’t filmed Ten’s face, the other members imitated). He even stood up and was really surprised, nervous and flustered.

This two things made me more sure that he likes to have the control, to be the more intense one. The other way around make him nervous. But that doesn’t mean that he don’t like it at all, is just that is not what touch the right spot in him. And Ten and Jungwoo are the confident legends in the group, of course their game is strong.

So this is what I think about him, a boy who likes boys, he already gave a lot of signals that he is ideed attracted to boys and it’s not just a bromance things. He is comfortable with his sexuality, and now ready to found himself even more, leaning more towards his sexual desires and attractions. Is beautiful, shameless and already to live his best life. A healthy boy, thank god.

Now Jeno.

Jeno is a clouded one.  I’d say that he is in the same spectrum of Jaemin, but in his first steps. The same way that Jaemin’s actions are all over the place so are Jeno’s, but in a very chaotic and confused way. He is aware of his attraction towards men, likes to observe them, alone and when two interact -when they touch, flirt, keeps him very interest and attentive. He can be really immersed in the moment, smiling and enjoying but in the next he comes back to his “self conscience” mode.

One thing about him is that he came from a catholic family, was raised in this environment. But the point I want to touch is not that he holds himself for thinking in his religion. My family is catholic too, and thinking in this never stopped me in my discovery of my sexuality, I did it and never regretted. I know that’s not like this with everyone, but in his case I think that he maybe feel like this too, religion is not what holds him. Recently I found out that he told in a vlive that he was no longer catholic, so this added in my think that he is, in his pace, embracing his sexuality.

There’s one vlive where the boys told that when he’s home Jeno only play games. In the next video they commented that Jeno’s mom called him and scolded him after watched that video. So what I think that affects his comportment more, and makes him so aware of his actions when the things could become too “comfortable”, when he is letting being guide for his secret desires and he maybe give himself away is the fact that his parents watch the NCT dream content and he knows that.

He also is very timid and not good at voice out his thoughts and feelings. While Jaemin says I love you’s as if it’s nothing, Jeno can’t say this in a comprehensible way, for example. He is that type that uses jokes to say how he feels, never making himself so serious. Like in his card for Haechan’s birthday where he wrote that they knew each other for 6 (I think) years, had been through a lot, and them wrote “we know each other for so long. It’s enough, I don’t want more”. Or in lives, he complements the members and them says that he was reading a comment.

Actions like this are what makes me think that he wants to be braver and leave this shell where he is right now because he has so much love and care to give. And I can see him trying but still panics a lot and come back. He has some attitudes of a confident one, but in the next moment he has reactions of a panicked. He is soft, likes to hug the members, and there’s specific that are more close to him, like Ten (who is hyper sweet with him), Doyoung (who multiple times said that Jeno is his favorite NCT member and treats him like a son), Mark (the no jam duo), Renjun (who I think is the second closest to him, and a big source of support) and Jaemin (his best friend for years gay straight).

But there’s still a long way to him. It’s like I’m watching myself through him. And even if ours situations are different, I can tell that are a lot to organize, and comprehend.

But I think that Jeno wouldn’t be this confused, lost and caothic with discovering and figuring out his own things with it wasn’t for the fact that he -high possibly- has a crush in one of his friends.

Discovering that you like boys, at the age of 17, living a public life, coming from a conservative family, living in a homophobic country, and through and/or with feelings for a friend is just not easy. I can’t imagine how messy Jeno’s head is with all this put together. I think that he just not exploded thanks to his job making him focus in other things and relieve stress.

I just think that things for Jeno are really confusing and that makes him this boy with bold moments where he takes some initiative, but them regrets, like “what are you doing?”, and them back off, but can totally keep the interaction if there’s a limit (that maybe only exist in his mind to comfort and tranquilize him that “this” is okay, “more than this” not okay, your gay is showing).

What I conclude of him, till now, is that he is conscious of his sexuality and is trying to be comfortable with, find his right way of presents himself. It’s already too strong in him to be shut up, too pretend that is not there.  He already have a sexual expression too, that shows when he is with different members, so I conclude that he’ still not completely aware of it, but for what he knows he is already trying to take control. Jeno, imo, seems more submissive. He’s still scared to really get into the “feeling”, but when he does he is more likeable of lean on responding to a more intense attitude. He is almost like that boyfriend that doesn’t know how to say no. But that doesn’t mean he lacks in attitude. He takes some, but in majority is just to catch attention, to tease one response. The response he gets it’s what really catches his senses.  He “plays to be get”.

I hope you guys liked this. If there’s something that I’m lacking you can tell me with love to not hurt (lol). If theres something you want to ask, go foward! If you like this analysis part 1 and want to see me doing more, you can ask me to, I’d love that! 

High School

Surviving a Boring Class

Ideal Curriculum for Life

Grocery Store Class Analogy

School = Prison?

Academic Achievement = Popularity?

Teacher Machine

Teacher POV

School and Life and Paint

School = Dystopia?

Imaginary Report Card

Best and Worst of Times

- according to maureen murdock

created by maureen murdock in the 1980s, the heroine’s journey is the alternative to joseph campbell’s hero’s journey which focuses on the heroine’s quest for wholeness. this is not a flawless way of charting a character’s journey. with how dense and beautiful shuri’s arc is in wakanda forever, i thought it would be fun to do an overview of her story through the paradigm of the murdock’s heroine’s journey. so here we go.

HEROINE SEPARATES FROM THE FEMININE

the rejection the mother/mentor figure or a societally prescribed feminine/marginalized/outsider role.

at the start of the film, there’s a definite separation between shuri and the feminine- her mother, queen ramonda.

ramonda has been able to navigate her grief with the strength of her spiritual beliefs. though heartbroken, she is able to heal because her spiritualism gives her comfort. shuri on the other hand, is still wrestling with her loss and hasn’t started healing at all. scientific beliefs only provide torment despite her utter confidence in them. this causes a wedge between mother and daughter. shuri is dismissive to her mother’s wisdom and is happy to be distance herself by bunkering in her lab. there is also an underlying resentment towards how her mother and the women around her are so attached to the spiritual. when okoye mentions the stories she grew up on being seared into her mind, shuri sarcastically replies “that must have been painful for you.”

IDENTIFICATION WITH THE MASCULINE & GATHERING OF ALLIES.

the heroine embraces a new way of life, a different path that prescribed. identifying with a male figure (or societally prescribed masculine role).

while ramonda would prefer the princess to stay in the palace and her lab, shuri chooses to step into a hero’s path and help okoye to find riri williams. because wakanda is not a patriarchal setting, there aren’t many things that society prescribes as a ‘male role’. however, for decades in the mcu the black panther, the hero of wakanda, has been her grandfather, then her father, and then her brother. shuri is now stepping into this hero role to find and ensure riri’s safety just like t’challa would.

ROAD/TRIALS AND MEETING OGRES & DRAGONS.

the heroine encounters trials and meets people who try to dissuade the heroine from pursuing their chosen path, or who try to destroy the heroine.

the finding of riri, followed by the cia chase scene, and the appearance of the talokanil could symbolise the trials and tribulations of this stage. shuri is playing the role of the hero, but the CIA are trying to derail her and the talokanil have no problem with killing the princess. at the end of this stage, shuri is successful however: riri is alive and shuri has a chance to convene with namor in hopes of finding a peaceful solution.

EXPERIENCING THE ILLUSORY BOON OF SUCCESS.

the heroine overcomes the obstacles in their way but her values are betrayed in the end.

the political/romantic courtship of shuri takes place. the princess and god king have a deep understanding and connection. it seems as if a peaceful solution might be reached between the two mirror images, but when shuri’s own rescue goes awry and two talokanil get killed this success disappears immediately. shuri, the healer and self appointed diplomat, leaves a scene that could only be understood as an act of war from namor.

this stage and the next can be seen as one big stage. there’s a domino effect at play: the peaceful courtship to unintentional betrayal to the attack on wakanda to the death of ramonda. any hope that was building between the two nations gets snuffed out.

HEROINE AWAKENS TO FEELINGS OF SPIRITUAL ARIDITY/DEATH.

the heroine’s new way of life (attempting the masculine/dominant identity) is too limited. their success in this new way of life is either temporary, illusory, shallow, or requires a betrayal of self over time.

shuri tried be the hero without taking the mantle- saving riri, refusing to the set the world on fire in the name of her anger, and attempting to heal the innocent talokanil- but it wasn’t enough. her mother still drowns in front of her eyes and wakanda is even more vulnerable than before.

she knows she must become the protector her kingdom requires if a war against talokan is on the horizon. but her pursuit to become the black panther is motivated primarily by vengeance, which is a betrayal of her previous heroic nature. becoming black panther will inevitably lead to a spiritual rebirth.

INITIATION & DESCENT TO THE GODDESS.

 the heroine faces a crisis of some sort in which the new way of life is insufficient, and the heroine falls into despair. all of the masculine/dominant-group strategies have failed them. there’s a return to the feminine.

oh look. i just write an entire meta about shuri’s descent into becoming a goddess. how convenient.

anyway, after taking the synthetic heart shaped herb shuri is the domain of the goddess bast. shuri is meeting the feminine. murdock’s template suggests that the heroine should be accepting all of the positive values that shuri left behind at the beginning. and we start to see this- shuri’s return to the spiritual. she is no longer relying on science only to overcome her struggles.

through n’jadaka, shuri is asking for the godly power of punishment and retribution, which is bast grants her. i always say this part of the movie isn’t shuri as the black panther, but shuri as the goddess: destructive, wrathful and ready to cause eternal war in the name grief.

HEROINE URGENTLY YEARNS TO RECONNECT WITH THE FEMININE.

the heroine wants to, but is unable to return to their initial limited state/position before the rejection of the feminine.

shuri becomes the scientist once more with her plans to trap namor. however, she isn’t fully able to return to this position because she is now the goddess, and her fury takes her away from that role. thankfully, riri is there to help her. though she is now interacting with the spiritual, it’s not the peaceful spiritualism that her mother was preaching. she is ready to use her new found connection with the spiritual (goddesshood) to kill.

HEROINE HEALS THE MOTHER/DAUGHTER SPLIT.

the heroine reclaims some of their initial values, skills, or attributes (or those of others like them) but now views these traits from a new perspective.

this stage neatly aligns with shuri seeing the parallels between herself and namor. she’s reclaiming her empathy, love, compassion, her need to protect her people. only now she is the protector of wakanda and has the power to defend her kingdom.

the healing of the feminine comes in the form of a message from her mother. and her message is to remember who she is and show that to namor. shuri is able to receive that wisdom and fully accept it, integrate it, and thus make a substantial, conscious step with accepting the spiritualism of her mother. the mother/daughter split is healed.

HEROINE HEALS THE WOUNDED MASCULINE WITHIN.

the heroine makes peace with the “masculine” approach to the world as it applies to them.

coming to terms with the masculine could literally mean her reaching an alliance with namor. it could be seen as her truly becoming the black panther, noble and just. and just like her brother letting go of vengeance and allowing for mercy. it could mean her full acknowledgment of namor as her mirror image and accepting that killing him would be wounding and killing the part of herself that he reflects back. there’s a lot a different things that could slot into this stage of the heroine’s journey.

HEROINE INTEGRATES THE MASCULINE & FEMININE. 

in order to face the world/future with a new understanding of themselves and the world/life, the heroine integrates the “masculine” and “feminine” perspectives.

if the masculine is the role of black panther, a position shuri heavily associates with her late brother, and the feminine is spirituality, what her mother was a beacon for, then in the end we see her step towards the union of the two.

she is the black panther, empathetic and able to build bridges like t’challa. she is also listening to the spiritual wisdom of her mother and bringing her mourning to an end by burning the funeral garments. her journey to wholeness is in motion.

final thoughts

as i said, this isn’t a flawless way to think about storytelling. it would be interesting how accurately this template applies to future stories where shuri is at the core.

let’s jump into this well overdue meta, shall we?

shuri and namor’s dynamic is compelling because we are seeing two mirror images meet each other, confront each other, and eventual align with each other. to see your mirror image is to see your reflection. you can read it as soulmates, twin flames, whatever. i use the word mirror image because the imagery of both shuri and namor standing on opposite sides of that same mirror is a pretty apt description of their relationship. and we see what happens when the glass between them breaks.

“the same wound”

tenoch has said repeatedly that shuri and namor share the same wound. this wound being grief and trauma. for shuri, this wound is fresh: the death of her brother despite her efforts to save him. it has left her with paralysing guilt, a cold detachment to spiritualism and an anger that could burn the world. for namor, this wound is centuries old: witnessing the heartbreak of his mother due to colonialism. as the ruler of talokan he’s burdened with trying to protect his people from an evil he has witnessed and has no real control over.

the scene at the beach is when we first see the two interact. “this better not be apart of your ritual” shuri says, as if their words or mere presence had summoned a stranger to them. and it’s kind of true. namor, only after overhearing the depth of shuri’s rage, emerges from the sea. at five hundred years old, he is well-versed in rage and he already understands that him and shuri share the same wound from her words.

most of the conversation flows through ramonda, wielding a spear as her guards herself and her daughter from a god who promises war and ruin if they do not deliver him the scientist. namor is calm and collected in this moment, at peace with the fact he holds the advantage in this tug of war. also at peace with the fact he has a potential ally in shuri already. shuri is on guard, but intensely curious at the vibranium clad god with winged feet. she doesn’t realise yet how alike they are. perhaps her disconnect with the spiritual has played a part in that. in any case, her curiosity is already tethering her to her mirror image.

“we must look at each other and recognise we are the same”

after shuri’s “not-abduction-abduction” we find ourselves just outside talokan in a cave. shuri is ready to face namor, for a chance to save riri williams and understand namor’s motivations. after a quick wardrobe change she meets namor alone, surrounded by his history.

shuri’s dress, which is specifically made for her, is pure talokanil artistry: a light white silk robe with an elaborate neckpiece made of jade and pearls. a royal fit. namor’s likeliness is also embodied on the lower part of the dress. interesting that namor, perhaps subconsciously, is creating a literal mirror image of himself. manifesting the mythical through the literal. when looking at shuri he is now seeing his culture, his history, his likeliness reflected back at him.

for them to be allies, he must show how they are the same. so he tells the story of his people, the spanish conquistadors, his mother’s heartbreak over leaving her home, the evil that took over their land, and finally his vow to hold no love for the surface world. shuri still doesn’t understand- why are you telling me this?. which makes sense. namor has had five hundred years to sit and understand his wound. shuri has spent the last year ignoring it. she isn’t making the connections between the two of them that namor was able to do in a heartbeat.

instead, she uses her smarts to try and save riri: keep her in talokan and send riri back to wakanda safe. and i don’t think namor was expecting that. he pauses, considering and thinking over her proposal. then shuri says she would love to see talokan and he stumbles slightly, perhaps bashful, but quickly agrees to her suggestion. it’s like seeing people on opposite sides a mirror, tentative tapping at the glass. while they are mirror images, they are not identical. the mistake on namor’s part is to believe shuri’s response should be the same as his. when really it should be complementary. shuri is actually softening his edge with reason.

ryan coogler has said one theme of wakanda forever is smarts v wisdom. while shuri is a certified genius, she doesn’t have the wisdom that a god of five hundred years have. and i think we see that on display throughout their scenes in talokan. namor is patient telling her the why. he’s betting that his wisdom will be enough to convince her. while shuri counters with reason and logic.

the other day on twitter, i remarked how shuri’s rejection of queenhood fascinated me. shuri is offered queenhood thrice. and she rejects it thrice. but she deals with two different types of queenhood which is the most interesting part. let me explain.

mythic queenhood: “you said you wanted to burn the world. then let's burn it together.”

let’s start with mythic queenhood. i view a lot of elements of wakanda forever through a mythic lens. it’s something that comes naturally when a story is so textually rich and layered. and it invites us to not take things at face value and play with the extremes myths often do.

when isolated from the rest of the movie, the scene between shuri and namor in talokan feels like something from a fairytale. a chapter from an epic where the princess gets taken to an underwater kingdom, gets courted (politically/romantically/whatever your interpretation) by the ruler of this kingdom, and they are able to see themselves in each other. namor gifts shuri a family heirloom (an heirloom which symbolised a promise that he would be royalty and rule), and they watch the sun shine on the beauty of talokan.

there’s just such a different vibe to these moments between them on talocan. hence when namor offers allyship, a union between two kingdoms, and specifically proposes to her that they “burn it [the world] together” i can’t help but see this as a mythic proposal to become queen who, by his side, will wage war on the surface world.

shuri refuses this strongly. despite her anger and grief, she understands what this union could bring: a world in ruins. she rejects alliance, the mythic queenhood, and most importantly, acts nobly as the protector she will become at the end of the movie.

literal queenhood: “you are queen now.”

the rejection of mythic queenhood and the dead of two innocents, is met with an inevitable retaliation: there’s rhyme in the tragedy: the death of a servant/handmaiden, ultimately leading to the death of a queen.

namor, the ‘peter pan’ god king he is, was told no and sought out a yes. once his mythic proposal was rejected, he decided to force the title on her. shuri was unable to outrun a fate that namor, a ‘god’, bestowed upon her, despite her steadfast rejection of it. you don’t just reject a ‘god’. she messed with myth and myth swung back hard. there’s a concurrent mythical storyline happening here, which i won’t completely explore here, but it’s exciting to think about.

anyway, this pushback by fate leans nicely into what happens in this part of the film. which can only be summarised as shuri’s illusion of control being shattered. this can refer to her belief that she is her grief when really it’s eating her alive. it can refer to shuri ‘containing’ her anger at the world. it can refer to her need to be purely pragmatic and logical, when her world her life is actually steeped in spiritualism. all is broken.

a vengeful protector: “i am the black panther, and i am here for retribution!”

the rejection of her this literal queenhood starts once shuri becomes the black panther. not to say the two titles can’t coincide, but with a furious, vengeful shuri, one falls by the wayside. seeing killmonger in the ancestral plane and not her mother, solidified this. to me, the mantle of queen wasn’t completely passed down. instead we have this terrifying and beautiful hybrid of duty and vengeance.

when namor greets shuri as “princess”, she replies back “NO. “i am the black panther, and i am here for retribution!”. despite literally being queen, in her words (or lack of words) and her actions this is a rejection of that part of her.

she is the protector of wakanda, perhaps a deadly goddess in the heat of her battle with namor. her role as black panther becomes a vessel for all her pain and anguish. and more importantly the future of wakanda is second to her revenge. eternal war was about to be triggered until she is pulled back from the brink. who helps her? the queen mother.

this moment is not queen to queen, because shuri was not acting like a queen or even completely believes that she is one. it’s queen to princess. it’s mother to daughter. And it’s only after queen ramonda is able to pass on those words that shuri couldn’t receive in the ancestral plane, does the mantle truly get passed in that moment. shuri is now the queen.

and isn’t it funny, that after shuri accepts literal queenhood, she also accepts a mythical queenhood, in the form of an alliance with namor. of course, at the moment, this is a queenhood rooted in the love of her kingdom, and the empathy and understanding of namor’s kingdom. and its forged not in fire, but in water as their alliance is communicated to their soldiers over the atlantic ocean.

the final rejection

there isn’t too much to say. skipping straight to the end of the movie, shuri formally rejects literal queenhood clearing the way for m’baku to be king. and it’s…peaceful. she has control over her own narrative, finally because she has control over her emotions. but this could only come from her being born again through the literal flames of her fury. there’s a lot of death and rebirth in this movie. the mythical queenhood still stands. and she has the bracelet, and the heart shaped herb that came from that bracelet, to prove it.

but for now, she has decided on being princess shuri, the black panther, protector of wakanda. a role that is steeped in tradition, but gives allows her a way to channel her technological prowess and her tremendous love for her kingdom.

_

well, the three main elements of the hades and persephone myth are: the abduction, the mother’s search, and the inevitable return. and we see close to all three in wakanda forever.

the abduction of shuri:

though in the film shuri “willingly” goes to see namor, the reaction of everyone in wakanda is to see it as an abduction. okoye sees the talokanil leave with the unconscious princess. queen ramonda declares her daughter ‘lost’. nakia is sent to rescue her. shuri has a descent to the underworld underwater kingdom of talokan after picking up a flower riri williams.

the queen mother’s search:

the mother/daughter relationship is central to the persephone myth, and it’s central in this story too. queen ramonda is relentless with finding shuri, serving as a demeter figure of course. while demeter has the torch, ramonda has the shell.

the contrast between the dark, cool underwater scenes between shuri and namor and the warm, summery feel of queen ramonda on the beach with namor makes me think of the seasonal cycle the persephone myth symblolises as well. and of course, like demeter, her search is fruitless- there’s ‘nothing’ that can be given in exchange for the princess’ safe return.

ultimately it is up to nakia to ‘rescue’ shuri and riri. and funnily enough nakia shares similarity to hermes, the god who helps and finds persephone in the underworld. her (familial) love for shuri makes her to come back to the wakanda fold and find shuri. she is a very knowledgeable, from languages and culture to countries due to her spy background.

the inevitable return:

in the myth hades tricks persephone into eating the pomegranate seeds, she not knowing that eating anything from the underworld will mean she is eternally bound there. interesting that food is offered to riri but we don’t see her consume anything.

while namor doesn’t trick shuri into eating anything, i wonder if he knew that gifting her his mother’s bracelet would one day help create the synthetic heart shaped herb? like playing the long game. by the time he ties the bracelet around her wrist, he is already wanting her as his queen by his side as they burn the world together.

shuri consumes the herb and so BAM she is eternally bound to talokan. mythically anyway. the alliance that namor proposed to her in the middle of the film is accepted by the end. they have an alliance, a union. an eternal union to stop an eternal war?

namor is counting on shuri coming back to him. and he’s sure of himself because he understands her and the predicament wakanda faces. just like how hades is certain persephone will come back to him every six months to the underworld.

the thing that you need to understand with namor is that he is constantly grieving.

as a ‘god’ he is forced to see his people be born, grow up, and die every day for five hundred years. and he hasn’t become jaded to this fact of life. the talokanil that die in the midst of shuri’s rescue are mourned by namor and the trigger for namor’s destructive retaliation. their deaths are just as important to him, as queen ramonda’s death to shuri.

but namor isn’t just grieving. he’s lonely. his distrust of the surface world, and his superior status amongst his people puts him in an isolating position. to his people, he’s the god that brought the sun to the ocean, has protect them against external threats for centuries, and promises to win an inevitable war against the entire surface world. but namor views himself as “broken”. he’s happy to go to war, but wants an ally. he’s proud of the might of talokan but still resents the fact that they are hiding. after five hundred years he is tired.

is it any wonder namor is so earnest in his want of an ally?

and he believes shuri to be that ally. the alliance and union he seeks can only be through shuri because, for all intents and purposes, she’s his mirror image. she’s the only one he can think to trust. the tragedy of shuri’s rescue is that trust between the two is shattered, even though shuri personally did nothing to break it. and it leaves namor with nowhere to turn but to himself and into his own darkness. his fears and resentment only amplified by her apparent betrayal.

“I was blinded by hope.”

very few character arcs have been as substantive and transformative as the arc given to shuri in wakanda forever. and what makes it so powerful is her undeniable rage.

shuri angry. at herself, at the ancestors, at the world. and there’s so much range in her anger. it’s cold and dismissive to her mother’s faith in the spiritual. it’s painful and untethering to herself and her beliefs. it’s hot and all consuming towards namor and the harm he causes.

and then with how mythical and fairytale-esque wakanda forever is in general. shuri plays with the princess archetype and instead almost becomes a vengeful goddess. eternal war was one death away. it just happens that the person she longed to kill was her mirror image.

a black heroine having the space to transform, rebirth by fire and fury, was an experience. i don’t really know how to put it into words.

“Is my mother’s life not worth eternal war?”

should we talk about the courtship of shuri?

let’s be real, namor is gambling a lot on shuri accepting any type of proposal. he’s showing her his home, he’s being vulnerable about his trauma, and he is risking the wrath of wakanda with holding her ‘hostage ’.

so why shuri? i got three reasons- the mythical, the political, and the romantic.

firstly, it’s because she’s his mirror image. not to bang on the same drum but wakanda forever is extremely mythic. i’m comfortable in believing some soulmatism is at play here. despite never meeting her before, he recognises something that is within himself. and he is drawn to it. like two halves of the same soul trying to stitch itself together again. despite being princess and god king, they are mythic equals. they burn with the same fire.

secondly, she’s the princess of wakanda. if there was anyone who would be the best person to strategically seduce it would be her. why? because he overhead both the queen and princess on the beach. while the queen was reaching for peace, the princess was reaching for anger. he knew which one to charm. winning over the heir to the throne would a massive win for his kingdom’s strategic interests. a defence alliance would be inevitable and he would have achieved protection for his people. it’s straightforward politicking. and this hope of an alliance drives him through the entire movie. he’s blinded by it.

thirdly, he’s intrigued by shuri. i have no doubt that he knew of shuri before they met on the beach. it’s not the biggest reach that he would be aware of the princess who’s a scientific genius, scoffs at tradition but is also ready to go into battle to protect her people. i think this reason is solidified during her visit talokan. her compassion, empathy and sense of justice, even in the midst of her grief, threatens to bend him slightly. you see him pause and bargain with her. the more he’s around her, the more he wants her to stick around.

i think all three reasons are correct. it’s a mixture of hope for an alliance, meeting a mythic equal, and shuri’s attractive characteristics which makes namor pursue her and this ‘courtship’.

and how did her court her? well:

he gives her a beautiful talokanil gown that is dripping is jade (one of the most valuable stones and has many connotations with love). it was specifically made for her. his symbol is also embroidered in it. he is also dressed to the nines, regal- he wanted to dress up for her. which makes sense. he wants to impress her.

he gifts her a valuable family heirloom. the bracelet is gorgeous, but also was the symbolic promised made to his mother that namor would be king. he’s openly trusting her with an object that holds so much history and it’s a gift of gratitude. what is he thanking her for? her openness, understanding, empathy? she has obviously left a stunning impression on the god king.

he tells her the story of talokan. knowledge is power and it’s a scene of both trust and vulnerability that he lets her know the history of his people. and he emphasises the why over the how. he needs her to understand why the protection of his people are so important to him.

he makes her one of the only people from the surface to see talokan. it isn’t clear whether he planned this from the start or if shuri’s eagerness made him throw caution to wind. again he remarks how he was blinded by hope, so maybe the latter. he is also very proud to show off the sun he gave to his people. a scientific genius seeing an underwater sun that he built?! yeah, he knows what he’s doing

maybe most importantly, he listens and offers her understanding when she is opening up about her pain. he talks about his fears and vulnerabilities too. as a god, he is constantly grieving the lives of tolakanil who age normally. he is unable to answer her questions, but gives advice from his ancestors and alludes to the fact she could still be a great leader, even if she feels broken.

and let it be known that namor was written to be seductive. ryan coogler says as much. coogler also lists the key principles that they couldn’t change about namor, a few of these things being his charisma, confidence and hitting on other people’s wives. simply, namor was written to have that seductive swagger and charm that could win over people.

and it was working. at the end of their little moment, shuri has a greater understanding and respect towards namor and talokan. she accepts him putting the bracelet on around her wrist when she could have easily refused. she truly admires what namor has done for his people. this is the guy who threatened wakanda with an army the first time he met the queen and wants to kill riri williams. and shuri let her guard down and allowed him to charm her. but not to the point of throwing away her own sense of justice. something namor tries to bargain with but has no such luck.

but even after shuri is ‘rescued’ it’s still so telling that shuri keeps wearing the bracelet until someone brings attention to it. namor is literally caressing the shell he gave to wakanda after shuri leaves. he teases and calls her princess in the midst of battle. whatever they had didn’t just die when she left talokan. only there’s no time to dwell on it when war comes knocking.

it could have been different namor remarks after everything. after attacking wakanda, killing her mother and finally stabbing shuri onto a rock. it’s interesting that’s what his mind goes to. their unofficial ‘courtship’. and he doesn’t seem victorious in that moment. just deeply disappointed. the hope he had cruelly taken away from him.

shuri revives that hope. with a spear at his throat, she is reminded of her time in talokan, of namor’s smile, at his love for his people. she draws parallels and sees herself in him. it’s what brings back her from the brink of eternal war. and she offers an alliance on her terms.

so the question is, was the courtship a success?

namor seems to think so. or at least he knows this isn’t the end. he believes princess shuri will inevitably be back for his help soon enough once the world turns on wakanda. and then the control would be back in his court. i can’t help but think he has other reasons besides politics as to why he wants shuri to turn to him. the lonely god craves an equal. but these reasons might get him into trouble with namora.

the thing that you need to understand with namor is that he is constantly grieving.

as a ‘god’ he is forced to see his people be born, grow up, and die every day for five hundred years. and he hasn’t become jaded to this fact of life. the talokanil that die in the midst of shuri’s rescue are mourned by namor and the trigger for namor’s destructive retaliation. their deaths are just as important to him, as queen ramonda’s death to shuri.

but namor isn’t just grieving. he’s lonely. his distrust of the surface world, and his superior status amongst his people puts him in an isolating position. to his people, he’s the god that brought the sun to the ocean, has protect them against external threats for centuries, and promises to win an inevitable war against the entire surface world. but namor views himself as “broken”. he’s happy to go to war, but wants an ally. he’s proud of the might of talokan but still resents the fact that they are hiding. after five hundred years he is tired.

is it any wonder namor is so earnest in his want of an ally?

and he believes shuri to be that ally. the alliance and union he seeks can only be through shuri because, for all intents and purposes, she’s his mirror image. she’s the only one he can think to trust. the tragedy of shuri’s rescue is that trust between the two is shattered, even though shuri personally did nothing to break it. and it leaves namor with nowhere to turn but to himself and into his own darkness. his fears and resentment only amplified by her apparent betrayal.

“I was blinded by hope.”

should we talk about the courtship of shuri?

let’s be real, namor is gambling a lot on shuri accepting any type of proposal. he’s showing her his home, he’s being vulnerable about his trauma, and he is risking the wrath of wakanda with holding her ‘hostage ’.

so why shuri? i got three reasons- the mythical, the political, and the romantic.

firstly, it’s because she’s his mirror image. not to bang on the same drum but wakanda forever is extremely mythic. i’m comfortable in believing some soulmatism is at play here. despite never meeting her before, he recognises something that is within himself. and he is drawn to it. like two halves of the same soul trying to stitch itself together again. despite being princess and god king, they are mythic equals. they burn with the same fire.

secondly, she’s the princess of wakanda. if there was anyone who would be the best person to strategically seduce it would be her. why? because he overhead both the queen and princess on the beach. while the queen was reaching for peace, the princess was reaching for anger. he knew which one to charm. winning over the heir to the throne would a massive win for his kingdom’s strategic interests. a defence alliance would be inevitable and he would have achieved protection for his people. it’s straightforward politicking. and this hope of an alliance drives him through the entire movie. he’s blinded by it.

thirdly, he’s intrigued by shuri. i have no doubt that he knew of shuri before they met on the beach. it’s not the biggest reach that he would be aware of the princess who’s a scientific genius, scoffs at tradition but is also ready to go into battle to protect her people. i think this reason is solidified during her visit talokan. her compassion, empathy and sense of justice, even in the midst of her grief, threatens to bend him slightly. you see him pause and bargain with her. the more he’s around her, the more he wants her to stick around.

i think all three reasons are correct. it’s a mixture of hope for an alliance, meeting a mythic equal, and shuri’s attractive characteristics which makes namor pursue her and this ‘courtship’.

and how did her court her? well:

he gives her a beautiful talokanil gown that is dripping is jade (one of the most valuable stones and has many connotations with love). it was specifically made for her. his symbol is also embroidered in it. he is also dressed to the nines, regal- he wanted to dress up for her. which makes sense. he wants to impress her.

he gifts her a valuable family heirloom. the bracelet is gorgeous, but also was the symbolic promised made to his mother that namor would be king. he’s openly trusting her with an object that holds so much history and it’s a gift of gratitude. what is he thanking her for? her openness, understanding, empathy? she has obviously left a stunning impression on the god king.

he tells her the story of talokan. knowledge is power and it’s a scene of both trust and vulnerability that he lets her know the history of his people. and he emphasises the why over the how. he needs her to understand why the protection of his people are so important to him.

he makes her one of the only people from the surface to see talokan. it isn’t clear whether he planned this from the start or if shuri’s eagerness made him throw caution to wind. again he remarks how he was blinded by hope, so maybe the latter. he is also very proud to show off the sun he gave to his people. a scientific genius seeing an underwater sun that he built?! yeah, he knows what he’s doing

maybe most importantly, he listens and offers her understanding when she is opening up about her pain. he talks about his fears and vulnerabilities too. as a god, he is constantly grieving the lives of tolakanil who age normally. he is unable to answer her questions, but gives advice from his ancestors and alludes to the fact she could still be a great leader, even if she feels broken.

and let it be known that namor was written to be seductive. ryan coogler says as much. coogler also lists the key principles that they couldn’t change about namor, a few of these things being his charisma, confidence and hitting on other people’s wives. simply, namor was written to have that seductive swagger and charm that could win over people.

and it was working. at the end of their little moment, shuri has a greater understanding and respect towards namor and talokan. she accepts him putting the bracelet on around her wrist when she could have easily refused. she truly admires what namor has done for his people. this is the guy who threatened wakanda with an army the first time he met the queen and wants to kill riri williams. and shuri let her guard down and allowed him to charm her. but not to the point of throwing away her own sense of justice. something namor tries to bargain with but has no such luck.

but even after shuri is ‘rescued’ it’s still so telling that shuri keeps wearing the bracelet until someone brings attention to it. namor is literally caressing the shell he gave to wakanda after shuri leaves. he teases and calls her princess in the midst of battle. whatever they had didn’t just die when she left talokan. only there’s no time to dwell on it when war comes knocking.

it could have been different namor remarks after everything. after attacking wakanda, killing her mother and finally stabbing shuri onto a rock. it’s interesting that’s what his mind goes to. their unofficial ‘courtship’. and he doesn’t seem victorious in that moment. just deeply disappointed. the hope he had cruelly taken away from him.

shuri revives that hope. with a spear at his throat, she is reminded of her time in talokan, of namor’s smile, at his love for his people. she draws parallels and sees herself in him. it’s what brings back her from the brink of eternal war. and she offers an alliance on her terms.

so the question is, was the courtship a success?

namor seems to think so. or at least he knows this isn’t the end. he believes princess shuri will inevitably be back for his help soon enough once the world turns on wakanda. and then the control would be back in his court. i can’t help but think he has other reasons besides politics as to why he wants shuri to turn to him. the lonely god craves and equal. but these reasons might get him into trouble with namora.

He definitely looks at her when she says he's covered in vibranium

He's down bad from then on

In the very last scene in the Talokan journey, I see him reach for her hand

He listens to her and tries to reason with her, which I haven't seen him do with anyone else before.

He never reasons with Ramonda. When she asks him what she could give him in exchange for Shuri, he says 'Nothing' with a damn smile.

He tells Ramonda that he'll kill Shuri if his request isn't met, but he says it in the most unconvincing manner possible, this man who dressed her up with the finest clothes is not going to do that when he had so many opportunities to do so before.

He jives his spear into the hull of the ship when he could have easily killed her there, it's like he didn't want her to interfere.

He's reevaluating his choices as he sees her break when Ramonda dies, but true to his character being 'a kid without love' he moves on in the way he knows, by following duty.

He's stroking the little sea shell telephone before their war like a miserable longing ex boyfriend 🤣 was he waiting for her to ring him up and call it off?

He looks up at her when she leads the ship and then reluctantly starts fighting?

He's alone in the ship with her and he's probably thinking things were about to go differently.

"It could have been different", is etched in my mind the way he says it.

The score "Con la brisa", "it could have been different" and "Vengeance has consumed us" are for scenes with only Namor and Shuri. Tell me why its like it has been taken out of an enemies to lovers booktok playlist? (LUDWIG does his research impeccably well, I will trust this man's music like it's the absolute truth, the strings in that section is romantic)

Also in Shuri's recollection of events, she sees Namor smiling. You don't think of your villains like that.

He yields. And yes people may think he's waiting to exact his revenge but I interpret that scene as someone having met their equal.

He goes home to heal him self, draw fan art of him and Shuri and then fangirl about the black panther. His cousin's like bruh what are you on about.

Sidenote: when books exist with vampires, faes, elves, Greek gods, other immortal beings and Game of thrones couples, Shuri is an adult in the movie. The age gap doesn't matter in a fictional world but, Shuri's got it under control guys.

The death of Ramonda literally mirrors the way Tchalla lost his father in the UN bombing. Bucky was pulled in and blamed easily. It's the same sequence in WF too, we see the bomb go off and Shuri react, the man responsible is the one there. But actually he committed the act but the instigator is Namora. (@elsakey Thanks for reminding me!) She fuels his rage when the woman dies in his arms, even after he got there, she tells him the queen is alone, she works with him for her own personal gain. She is the true villain working behind the scenes manipulating Namor's love for his people.

Attuma is just chill to be around but he's got his eye on Okoye and would the first to accept Namor's live for Shuri cause Sharkboy is down bad for his warrior wife.

The other important connection I made was the different ancestral plane. The first movie, Tchalla wakes up in a savannah with multiple panthers around him one being his father. He wakes up from the ground, if I remember correctly but that isn't the case with Shuri. Her experience is completely different and I believe that connects her to Talokan because she use the herb that gave Namor's people the aquatic powers. She wakes up in the water, in the same way Talokan ancestors woke up after they ingested the plant. She almost looks like she's breathing under in terms of her ease in being there. Then she's in the throne room where her mother passed, so more to do with her dynamic with Namor.

I feel if she got to spend time around Namor and his royal court she'll figure out who the problem is and forgive Namor. He's just misguided and besides, they're royal families. Even in real situations there have been assassinations between siblings and parents for the throne. It is hypocritical of us to judge him in plain sight when Killmonger's vengence was rooted because Tchalla's father killed his own brother.

Woah such a great question!

I need them to be canon because if they were to come together, they would become a representation for those who have roots in both heritages. Lupita felt moved when she got to play Nakiya and speak Spanish. They're not just another enemies to loves or a beauty and the beast retelling, those parts of the trope are used but they're sooo much more bigger and if not grounded than that.

They will represent two highly strong individuals and intelligent beings coming together. Its often the trope in movies, where they write a strong woman character but never give her a romantic love interest. Because at the end of the day "she's good on her own", that narrative is so detrimental to women in general, cause even if you know your worth and value, you will still end up alone. I guess that's why even after so many years, I keep going back to the hunger games movies and books. Cause Katniss as independent as she is also has Peeta who loves her for it. So Namor and Shuri's dynamic will be similar to that.

Now the most common theme that is portrayed and is a force to reckon with is the idea of colonisation in the movie, that is repeated over and over and we see the aftermath of it. It hurt people and cultures and destroyed so many possible futures. We live in a world today that has enabled people from those cultures to have a voice of their own.

When India was invaded, the British divided it first and the conquering bit came easy. They turned the varied amount of tribes and small kingdoms against eachother. Piting them based on the fact that they are different. If you're so focused fighting on of your own for personal reasons, it's much easier for someone else to slip through. The result of that action to an afflicted community to be scared of anyone, that everyone else is going to be the same. The only way to battle that is unity. Gandhi led the movement and today is a mark in history, that when all of us come together, no force can stand against us. Namor and Shuri coming together will symbolise that, two cultures can exist together. They are not the enemy. Allies is such a strong concept throughout the movie. When we head out of the theaters, that's who we are. As a person of colour, it ties all of us together and by being united, we will start to heal.

As individual characters, it will again have an amazing impact. A lot of people identify with both of these characters. In an interview, Tenoch was talking about how Namor's humanity was built upon. That at the end, he is just a man protecting his family. He believes he's unworthy of love. So many resonate with that. Now taking that character and giving him a gruesome end is doing no good. You're not enabling a pathway for change or redemption. Namor does not need to be redeemed, yes, but giving him the opportunity to do so and watch him reevaluate what he needs to do is another beautiful journey much like how they handled the topic of grief in this movie. We can move forward if we wish it.

Shuri herself is morally grey, she has a streak of darkness and it's amazing. Women often get portrayed in all white. The main concept behind it being purity and if she were to do anything wrong, she loses everything. She's got vegence and anger, to see Namor say or in a sense validate her for her emotions was freeing. A man loving a woman in all her forms? Yeah that's what all of us want! The moment she fears she swayed deeper into the dark side, she's getting what she's asked for Namor at her feet but she's resisting from killing him. She's rethinking all of it. The message in that scene is to show them who you are, which is so beautiful. Yeah you've slipped up here and there, but it doesn't change who you are within. That again, if you wish you can get past your hurt and still reach out.