mom hurt me

I have some blurry memories from early childhood that would be more obviously abuse too but idk if they are real, idk, sorry if this was asked before i only discovered this blog recently

I'm sure you're not alone in this, anon. I'm too tired to look it up, but I'm pretty sure I came across literature defining that MDSA is more often (compared to other forms of adult-child csa) masked as care, hygiene, play, comfort, et cetera.

As for blurry memories; my experience is it's best to not go searching too hard. Just work with whatever shows itself to you (which is difficult enough as is) and more memories might show more fully later on.

Boring example, but my mom recently said to me "that [allergy medication we were both prescribed when I was a teen] made us way too drowsy" and no, it didn't, it made her too drowsy and she decided it was having the same effect on me, so I had to stop taking it too. She still assumes I have/will develop the exact same health issues as her, and seems upset when I go to a doctor first instead of her. She acts like I'm denying her access to something important when I don't tell her about my appointments or don't give her all the little details. Like she was incredibly upset that I wouldn't tell her the name of my obgyn. And when I mentioned getting surgery a while ago, she was surprised and offended that I didn't tell her about it before it happened so that she could "help" me make decisions about it and "help" me recover from it.

The way she acts, it's like she feels like I'm making decisions about her body, not my own.

Yeah, I agree with you but also there's simply no research on it (that I could find in a quick search) and all we can share here is anecdotal at best. But like I wrote in my initial reply, I do agree that it might be likely to have overlap between MDSA and MBP.

And I do really relate to what you write about your mom and health issues. I've been no contact for a couple years now, but it used to be a bit like that as well and as a child she witheld medication from me (asthma medication) and gave me homeopathic remedies instead (sigh...).

If I had the relevant credentials, I would love to do research on the entanglement and enmeshment, and the lack of boundaries between [mother's body] and [daughter's body]. I definitely experience that as well and it's a frequent topic in therapy.

Hi anon, first of all I want to wish you lots of both strength and softness in the process of realizing, remembering, and healing.

I don't know anything about an overlap or correlation between mothers who sexually abuse their children and who have munchausen by proxy. However, I wouldn't be surprised if there was an overlap. There is some literature on the idea (and ideal) of motherhood in society; the general idea people have about mothers, maternal love/care, and how this is impossible to hold onto while acknowledging the mere existence of MDSA.

I think the inherent aspect of "caring" that comes with a mother-daughter relationship allows a lot of space for behaviors that might fit under the munchausen by proxy umbrella. I would not at all be surprised if many more people with a history of MDSA have some experiences that blur the lines between care and illness, between love and abuse, et cetera.

hope this was cool to share.

Hi anon,

Definitely cool to share! I listened to the full album this morning and wow, some of those lyrics are really powerful. Thank you for sharing it with me, and I definitely relate to applying music about (abusive/unhealthy) romantic relationships to the mom stuff.

I'm glad to hear you're okay. Ty for creating this blog. It's such a relief to find a blog discussing mdsa w/o being fetishistic and/or engaging in abuse/rape/pedophilia apologia. knowing how tumblr is... especially recently.

haha I didn't want to feel like I was taking up space being a victim of emotional incest than csa

Ah. I should've clarified I meant reading materials.

Though I'm always listening to music so I appreciate the playlist nonetheless. I'll be avoiding the GRLwood song as of the singer being a rapist and the destroy boys one as of them working with the band SWMRS while knowing of the grooming accusations.

Funnily enough I was listening to Dead Man Walking a few days ago.

Take care.

Oh wow, I completely misread your ask from before, I'm so sorry! I had another ask for another blog come in and it was about music, my mind must have magically fused it all together.

I definitely know of literature on the topics you mentioned. I also think you're more than welcome to look for resources and support in whatever spaces you relate to, and if you relate to the quotes on this blog, then you belong here. I am so sorry your mom did this to you and you had to experience this. I can imagine how lonely that must feel.

Also, thank you for the heads up about that band! Had no clue about it.

Here is some literature that might be like what you're looking for. Some of those, like the first, may not sound like they are about covert/emotional incest, but they definitely are. I tried linking the ones that are available to read online. Last note: I have not read all of these myself, though some of them sound interesting and I might read them/post about them as well.

Kenney, K. L. (1987). Maternal incest: an annotated review of the literature on mother-daughter and mother-son incest (Master's thesis, California State University, Northridge)

Hann-Morrison, D. (2012). Maternal enmeshment: The chosen child. SAGE Open, 2(4), 2158244012470115.

Love, P. (2011). The emotional incest syndrome: What to do when a parent's love rules your life.

Keith-Oaks, J. (1990). Emotional abuse: Destruction of the spirit and the sense of self. The clearing house, 64(1), 31-35.

Hyde, N. D. (2009). Covert incest in women's lives: Dynamics and directions for healing. Canadian Journal of Community Mental Health, 5(2), 73-83.

This was just the result of some googling and browsing some of the literature I already had. I hope some of this resonates with you and if anyone gatekeeps you from reading or relating to stuff, fuck them. You deserve space to be heard and seen.

Luckily I don't really know what tumblr is like because I highly curate who I follow and who follows me (not on this blog but on my personal blog). You're not alone and I wish you all the best for healing, feel free to send me an ask if you ever want to ask, share, or discuss something.

As I was looking up something else, I found this reference:

Hi anon,

I'm okay, thank you for asking! Hah, I love how you asked if that's within my scope. I have definitely been looking for songs on this, but haven't been very successful. I once attempted making a playlist in spotify, which has theze songs in there:

They're by no means specifically about MDSA as far as I can recall.

Usually I just find bits of songs that stick with me because some part of the lyrics resonates. Some of these are just in general about (emotional) abuse, some are about romantic relationships, it's all over the place tbh, but I'll write some down for you!

Against The Current - Dead Man Walking (look into the mirror 'cause I know it never lies / what is staring back at me that has my mother's eyes?)

Mackenzie Arromba - hard for you (I hold my breath so that you can breathe / taught me love meant pain so I learned to bleed / let you drain my veins while your hands stay clean / you'll never see what you did to me)

MILCK - Black Sheep (the house you're in is like a cage, the walls are full of rage / it's hard to breathe, but hard to leave)

Lia Marie Johnson - DNA (are the pieces of you in the pieces of me? / I'm just so scare you're who I'll be)

IDER - Know How It Hurts (close my eyes and I am seven being told I cannot play / I used to think I'd get to heaven if I stayed out of the way / now I don't trust the world a fraction / it's let us down too many times / I have an insecure attachment style and my body isn't mine)

GRLwood - I Hate My Mom

A bunch of Linkin Park songs that are not about this at all (Numb, The Emptiness Machine, Easier To Run, Somewhere I Belong, From The Inside)

A honorary mention for the song Cannibal by Marcus Mumford. It's about his own experiences being SA'd as a boy (not incest) and the lyrics... oof:

I can still taste you and I hate it That wasn't a choice in the mind of a child and you knew it You took the first slice of me and you ate it raw Ripped it in with your teeth and your lips like a cannibal You fucking animal

I can still taste you and it kills me That there's still some sick part of it that thrills me That my own body keeps betraying me There is such power there, it may destroy me But it compels me

Hey anon,

Honestly I just use google scholar! I search for specific terms in specific publication ranges (years), and if you put something between "" (e.g. "mother daughter sexual abuse") it searches for the whole phrase and not just for each individual word. There are some other tricks like that.

Once I find a paper/book I like, I always comb through the reference list to see if there is anything else that sounds useful/interesting. Because barely anything is written about MDSA, almost all authors are citing each other. It's rare for a book to be purely about MDSA, but sometimes books about female perpetrators contain chapters on mothers that abuse their children (both sons and daughters).

From a quick search, these papers might be relevant starting points for you:

Montan, C., Burgess, A. W., Grant, C. A., & Hartman, C. R. (1989). The case of two trials: Father-son incest. Journal of family violence, 4(1), 95-103.

Dorais, M. (2002). Don't tell: The sexual abuse of boys. McGill-Queen's Press-MQUP. -> this is an example of a general book that might contain quotes specifically on FDSA

When I find something I'd want to read, sometimes I can freely access the paper. I have also asked friends who are still at uni to use their access to papers to find me something, and then there are other ways of finding books/papers, like certain (less legal, lol) websites.

Good luck, I know how lonely and exhausting this can be. I hope you can find some texts that make you feel seen and understood.

Wow, anon, I feel so honoured that you sent me this message. I am so proud of you for working so hard and so happy to hear you found a partner. I am glad this blog could be of any meaning <3

if so, do you have a pdf of it? <<;

I was not the one posting from it, and it sure sounds like something I'd want to read! Sadly I can't find it anywhere. Just a shady russian website that has the abstract but no download button or anything. If you end up finding it, will you let me know?