// regarding that post with the discrepancies with RDR1 vs RDR2 John, with the topic of him and his family specifically, there are some lines in RDR1 suggesting he was mildy crappy (saying how he hadn't always been the best father to Jack), plus in RDR2 Arthur's journal entry from before Blackwater says something about John not being able to "decide if he wants to be a father or not", but this feels at odds with ch 1-3 John if ykwim? Like it suggests him being on the fence/hesitant/maybe a bit shitty, which would be in line with what we heard abt it from RDR1, but his actual characterisation in ch1-3 feels nothing like that, yk?
Idk it's something that kinda annoys me to with how John was written as like, super super shitty... 😭 tin foil hat moment but it does sorta feel like they made John extra awful to try and endear players to Arthur more, even though Arthur's already great?
RDR2 is too "late" for John to be an absolute ass.
RDR2 chapters he's 26, Jack was already 4. Epilogue he's 34 and he's already a good father. Being chased by bounty hunters who found out who he was and protecting Abigail from a potential grapist was not wrong. Rescuing Uncle from being burned alive and killing the psychopath gangs camping near where Abigail wanted to live with Jack seems quite reasonable.
If they wanted to show John having parental crisis, it would make more sense if it happened when Jack was born. We would need to have John's past and traumas more explored, would be nice if they showed how Abigail and John met and not just put some random fragments in some camp events.
We do know John wanted to deny being a father was because he was afraid to be awful, because he didn't want Abby and Jack to be linked with someone like him, because he hates himself and thinks Jack would hate him too. He's also afraid he would be a bad father because his father was a bad father. John wrote in his diary he would abandon himself if he could.
None of that JUSTIFIES him leaving his family or treating them badly of course, but it helps the player understand the complexity of the character.
A guy abandoning his family because he simply doesn't give a fuck is totally different from a guy thinking they deserve someone better to fill that role or panicking and being too scared because he hates himself and wouldn't want himself near the people he loves.
Yes both are bad, but one is a sociopath and the other is a lost man who cares too much and doesn't know what to do.
Let's say many ideas and concepts in RDR2 were very good but were not executed so right.
Abigail love triangle with Arthur and John? KEEP IT. Let the angst happen.
Arthur's son Isaac dying in Colter? Keep it
Flashback of John and Arthur parents being awful to them? Keep it.
John panicking, crying, having nightmares, remembering all the things he suffered because of his father, all the neglect, him trying to do things right and failing, KEEP IT!
They did keep that in the epilogue and it worked so well.
What hits me really hard is that the impression I get is that Rockstar DIDN'T MEAN to make John seem totally awful, but they left the NUANCE and the SUBTEXT too hidden in game events and details that are often missed.
Like John risking to get shot to save Jack in Shady Belle, John getting arrested at the bank BECAUSE HE WENT TO THE POLICE THINKING ABIGAIL HAD BEEN ARRESTED, John being shot at Blackwater mention?? John being shot at the train being rushed, John BEING IN JAIL FOR DAYS, the things he might have been through there??
It's like everything that gives John a good image is in the shadows and everything that makes him sound bad is highlighter.
The train heist mission was a good exemple.
The idea was genius. It was John's idea. If you as Arthur doesn't get the mission materials, John gets it for you. John also explains that's the best way so people don't have to get shot, in the sense John doesn't want to hurt anyone, he just wants to execute the plan to steal the money for Dutch.
And then Arthur makes fun of John and does the main thing in the robbery, so to the player, sounds like John is an absolute useless idiot and Arthur is the big star.
The same with the sheep mission. It was a good non violent mission, a way to make money without hurting people, and Arthur just makes fun on him
