As the Crow Writes

Every cover or panel where the Bat Family is together 

The other side is how many countries don’t offer the same things like in USA/Canada/UK a lot of comic fans wait for MONTHS just to get a comic issue and Dc universe doesn’t give a much pleasant option I’d pirate too if I was in another country the fuck!?

The other part is how rare/expensive old comics are and also can be used for archiving god knows DC doesn’t even have a proper archivist I’d rather allow comic sites to give ppl access to easily read vintage comics which legit grows in popularity and gets ppl to buy them

Like, I don't really have an issue with #GirlBoss Persephone retellings (even if I find them a bit tired because they so often have to rely on villifying Demeter to do so.) But to act like that very modern interpretation of the character and story has any basis in the classical sources is just untrue, and it is frustrating because it refuses to engage with the difficult or uncomfortable aspects of stories that are 3000 years old. It refuses to engage with the cultural differences and history of these stories that still find ways to speak to us today. Instead it just seeks to sanitize and erase the bits that don't fit into our modern sensibilities.

But the one that *really* gets me is Medusa. Because as modern audiences, the idea that Medusa being turned into a monster was *punishment* by Athena for being *raped* by Poseidon is really upsetting. And I've seen people legitimately try to say that *actually* Athena would never do that. Athena was actually *protecting* Medusa by making her a monster so that she wouldn't be assaulted again. #feminism

But HERES THE THING- the entire idea that Medusa was transformed by Athena after being raped? COMES FROM FUCKING OVID.

(Ovid is a Roman writer who HEAVILY REIMAGINED the Greek myths in Metamorphoses because he was working with a Roman world view and political agenda.)

All EARLIER classical (and actually Greek) sources have Medusa being *born a Gorgon.* (whether the Gordons as a rule are beautiful or monsterous varies, and Hesoid does mention in the Theogny that Poseidon and Medusa had a thing, but he doesn't describe it as rape. But that they "lay in a meadow of soft flowers", and theres no description of her being transformed because of this.)

So like.

No.

no.

Obviously, the idea that there is some "true" Canon Orthodox version of these myths just...isn't true. That's just not how that worked.

But no. There is no classical support for any of that.

We have 1 reference to Arachne that predates Ovid, from Virgil (Also Roman), and he doesn't name her. "The spider, hateful to Minerva, hangs in the doorway her loose-woven nets."

There is no surviving earlier Greek references or even Greek art depicting Arachne at all, at least that I can find reference to. 🤷‍♀️

So here is the question- did Ovid, or at least Romans around Ovids time if not Ovid directly, invent the myth of Arachne? Does it have any basis in Greek oral tradition at all?

And the answer seems to be...we have no idea. The lack of art seems particularly weird to me, right?

But like, ok, I found 1 website (a museum IN GREECE) that claims to have 1 vase from 500BCE which depicts the myth of Arachne.

But this is the vase.

Here is a scan of that image

... why has this been identified as Arachne and Athena? One of the women is larger (the one they have identified as Athena) but she doesn't have any of Athenas traditional iconography- the helmet the shield, even an owl. Anything. And why is that Arachne? There's no spiders, and the tapestry isn't detailed enough for illustrations to be seen. Unless I'm missing something, this is just a scene of 2 women weaving. Maybe with some funky proportions. Why not say it is Penelope and one of her slave girls? Or anyone else? Weaving was pretty popular.

But this isn't a well known or well studied piece. And I'm not an archeologist. What do I know?

But having proof of the Arachne myth from a Greek source in 500BCE would be super interesting, yeah?

So. What do you do when you're hyper-fixating at 11:30pm on an unknowable historical question?

I emailed the museum and asked.

The museum never got back to me. I posed this question to a classics professor on TikTok who said basically the same thing - the references from Virgil and this specific vase seem to imply that there was *some* version of the myth that existed before Ovid.

But even he was like "...yeah, they are identifying this vase as Arachne but... it seems a bit speculative."

He also added that Arachne having a Greek name, not a Latin one, makes it more likely that Ovid was adapting something rather than just making it up himself (since he otherwise might have just used a Latin name?)

So. Unless someone digs up another villa or temple at some point and finds new evidence.... this is just... the state of things.

They were invented and retold ALL THE TIME.

We have this tendency to treat ancient myths like a fandom as if there's some canon interpretation and some "true" character of the gods, but really--and this is true even for a living worshipper like myself--the gods are ALLEGORICAL. They represent their domains. The only incorrect interpretation is the one that has them acting against their domains.

A lot of those Zeus stories are actually about the evolution of patriarchal or institutional power, and what the storyteller thinks the proper use of that power is. Meaning sometimes the teller told it as a rape and sometimes the teller told it as a marriage.

The myth of Hades and Persephone is about DEATH and descent into the Underworld, so of COURSE it's terrifying from Persephone's perspective until she comes to terms with it and takes power in her experience. That's nothing about like, Hades as a person, it's that he represents Death and the Underworld and all it's varieties.

And Athena is SO complex here, because yes she represents wisdom but she ALSO represents the ideal woman of influence who is at the side of institutional power. So she can sometimes be righteous but if you're critiquing power she, like Zeus, is someone you're going to want to represent flaws.

And some of those critiques are BAKED in, even if they started as positive aspects. Like no matter what your interpretation of Medusa's story, when you bring Perseus into it you see Athena sacrificing this person to help her brother AND ultimately absorb Medusa's power herself. This means you cannot have a redemptive story of Medusa that spares Athena any embarrassment, because it calls to mind the nature of her death. And I freaking love Medusa and Hermes, but they're at odds here unless you want to make Perseus a thief and a liar. (Which you can, but don't go saying that's the historical story.) But the story as is works, because Hermes and Athena are both upholders of institutional power, and Perseus is basically the little brother getting an internship here.

Arachne can be seen less as a hit piece written by someone with a grudge against Athena as a story told about what happens when someone of little power goes up against someone with big power. No matter what your skill, if you cop an attitude, power is going to find zero use for you.

That is, of course, if you follow the version of Arachne where she gets turned into a spider as punishment. If you are telling the version I originally heard, which is that Athena was incensed but didn't really DO anything, it just scared Arachne so much she tried to hang herself to get away... well, then Athena felt bad and turned her into a spider to save her, and it's a story about mercy.

Ahem, point is... we've lost a LOT, but the original versions of these have been long since lost to time and they've been told and retold in a million allegories. So if someone wants to tell a story of Persephone as an allegory on independence against a smothering parent, or a story of Medusa that sees being ostracized as a blessing... Well, it's every bit as valid as story of Medusa that is flatout about patriarchal women absorbing the power of marginalized women via the actions of their male relatives, or a story about Persephone that is about the sudden, horrifying, dizzying onset of mental illness.

That doesn't mean the retelling is GOOD, mind you, or that the allegory itself tells any underlying truth about the world as we know it. Like, I personally DESPISE the current state of Wonder Woman stories where Zeus is her father and the source of her power because that is saying she gets her power from the GOD OF PATRIARCHAL ORDER. I'm just saying that as a concept modern "try looking at it from THIS angle" tellings are fine and actually a long, proud tradition.

There is no canon for myth*, and anyone who tries to enforce one purely on the idea of accuracy is very mistaken.

*There is, however, cultural sensitivity and cultural appropriation, so don't be an ass and fuck up someone else's gods and heroes**

I'm Latino and I speak Spanish in addition to English. I'm into a lot of stuff but mostly comic books and comic book adaptations, Doctor Who, music composition and production, musicals, Studio Ghibli movies etc.

I’m a writer! I write both original fiction & fan fiction. I’m currently writing an original horror comic! Hopefully I can talk about that more, soon.

’m into many, many fandoms! And I’m currently reading Robert Kirkman’s “Invincible,” so prepare for me to be INSUFFERABLE!