Hello Kreekey, I’m so glad we’ve decided to meet.
Sensationalism. Let me try to respond to some of this. Forgive me if this is slightly messy.
Oh, so her bad behavior and actions are sensationalism? Would we say the same for John’s? I don’t think so… But it’s so convenient to have such excuses for her, huh?
She talked to Paul in 1965 because John Cage asked for her to ask for lyrics from him.
She stalked Paul in 1966. Not talk to him, she stalked him. When Paul wouldn’t give her the time of day and into her incessant bothering, he directed her towards John because he might have more interest.
Yoko’s Tarot card reader John Green insists that Yoko claims Paul was the one she wanted all along.
Every time she came to Kenwood, it was at John’s invitation (rather secretive invitation because, yes, John was having an affair). She was not even interested in John Lennon before she met him, and the only Beatle she recognized was Ringo, whose name meant apple. X and another source: Yoko Ono: Collector of Skies
comment someone wrote about Cynthia’s book, when she talks about Yoko:
It’s Cynthia I feel sorry for. It’s a lie when John and yoko say they met at her art gallery. In Cynthia’s book she says that yoko actually stalked John. Yoko would be outside of their house everyday for hours. She’d also phone the house lots of times, John changed his number about 3 or 4 times because of this. She’d send a ton of letters asking John for money and she’d send notes saying ‘If you don’t support me I’ll kill myself’. On one occasion when John and Cynthia was getting into a car, Yoko barged past them and sat right in the middle of them until she was at her stop. The first time Cynthia saw them together was when she came home from a holiday in Greece, she entered the sitting room to find the two of them sat in robes (Yoko was wearing Cynthia’s robe) and dirty dishes were piling up in the sink. Cynthia was so shocked by this she ran upstairs to get some of her things and leave. You see, Yoko didn’t care he was married or had a son. She purposely split them up. [x]
In case Cynthia’s book wasn’t enough for you ( although it should ), here’s a passage of Peter Brown’s book ( Brian Epstein’s personal assistant and part of the Beatles management’s team until the band was dissolved ):
Though as shown here, it is true she tried to make moves on Neil Aspinall, and then even Ringo Starr [wasn’t he married too?] after Paul had rejected her outright. Then she set her eyes on John. But no, John was vehemently against Yoko and was rather freaked out by her.
“I don’t like the unhappiness she caused. She was horrible. John wanted to avoid her at first. He said, ‘Get rid of the bloody woman!’ But after India, he saw her differently — perhaps filtered through an exotic mindset.”
— Tony Bramwell - the band’s ex-road manager - about Yoko Ono (via burning-rubber) [x]
After the meeting in November 1966, Yoko began to pursue John Lennon at his home, the studio and even Brian’s office. She constantly asked for funding and money, but was probably seeking publicity as well. There are rumors that she was also pursuing John sexually, but to our best knowledge they are unsubstantiated. In 1967, Yoko was REALLY trying hard to get her career off the ground and/or get famous; there are numerous accounts from multiple people in the Beatles circle (Hunter Davies, Michael Lindsay Hogg, Robert Fraser, Barry Miles) that Yoko was hustling nonstop at that time. So while Lennon was her main target, our impression is that she was probably just trying to make inroads with anyone who could help her become famous. Accounts consistently suggest that John intermittently found her intriguing (when he didn’t find her scary or annoying), so I imagine she kept soliciting him because that’s where she made the most progress. Anyway, her stalking is a matter of fact, corroborated by EVERYONE. Also corroborated by everyone is the fact that John began to sometimes talk to her and occasionally let her inside (the same way the Beatles treated other Apple Scruffs), starting in/around late 1967.
Tony Bramwell tells a very bizarre story about John being panicked one day in late ‘67, regretful and paranoid after giving Yoko a hand-written letter and a lock of his hair (?). A frightened John asked Tony to retrieve the items from Yoko.
And then he came back from India, and whoa suddenly it’s all so different… Not at all unusual or suspicious at all.
According to John (in both 1970 AND 1980), he still only thought of Yoko as a weird artist by that point. He insists he was NOT interested in her sexually or romantically, only intellectually, and there is nothing to suggest that he was lying about that. More importantly, John was having some kind of emotional breakdown in India; he wrote and talked about feeling suicidal in Maharishi’s camp. John never specified the exact cause of his breakdown, although he did later pinpoint ongoing feelings of self-hatred and worthlessness.
After returning from India, John was highly emotional, erratic, depressed, and abusing drugs and alcohol at an alarming rate. Derek Taylor recounts John taking some acid trips at his house over two weekends. During one of these weekends, John’s now-friend Yoko (who he still insists he wasn’t sexually interested in) showed up and helped “rebuild John’s ego.” In other words, Yoko threw John a life raft and helped pull him out of the darkest, bleakest depression of his life.
Then in May, after months of erratic behavior, John declared he was Jesus in an Apple board meeting (!). The following night, with Cynthia away for the weekend, John invited Yoko over (or had Mal invite her) and the two of them dropped acid, made some tapes and had sex for the first time. As far as we can tell, this information is accurate as it is corroborated by Pete Shotten (who was making the tapes with John before Yoko came over and replaced him!). Pete said in the morning John came downstairs and shocked Pete by saying Yoko was the answer to all his problems and he was so certain he’d go off and live in a tent with her. That sounds shocking until you realize John was on acid at the time (in that light, not quite as shocking).
Let me know how, and how when John deliberately had cut her ties from her avant-garde male friends (however elderly and gay lol) you think he’s forgivable for that, too, or if for whatever reason you give him empathy and Yoko none. When Yoko decided to take a break in 1973 because John was smothering her, that was fine too. John told her to follow him where he went but not to interact with Paul, George, and Ringo. Source: John Lennon: The Life.
I never said I forgive John for the things he’s done– but at least he’s admitted to the fact he had issues, and he was jealous and possessive and it wasn’t good. Does that somehow make her shit any better? No. If John is going to receive, rightfully so, the critical eye and not being handled with kid gloves, then so does Yoko.
“John’s new partner apparently encourages him to start taking heroin. She encourages him to sign with Allen Klein. She encourages him to end his partnership, and then his friendship, with Paul McCartney. She requires him to quit primal scream therapy, something that appears to be helping her husband calm down and work on his core traumas. She requires him to forego contact with his son. She requires him to move to New York. She requires him to move to Los Angeles with an employee she has selected while she conducts affairs in New York. When he begins to reconnect with old friends, his son, and his muse as a result of this arrangement, she requires him to return to her apartment. Three days later, he emerges, unsure of what day or year it is. He complains of having spent three days “puking his guts out.” He immediately breaks off his relationship with the employee, who was encouraging him to collaborate with Paul McCartney and returns to her apartment. In short order, he announces that he is retiring from the music business. According to multiple accounts, he begins to use heroin again, something that he may or may not continue to do for the next four or five years. After giving birth to a son—who may himself have been born addicted to heroin—she withdraws to a separate apartment. Her husband spends his time largely alone in his bedroom, a knife above his bed—a present from his wife, who has encouraged him to cut all ties with his past. She instructs his personal assistants—the only people with whom her husband is permitted regular contact—not to allow calls from his friends, family, and former collaborators to be put through. Her husband begins to show signs of serious depression and, possibly, addiction. She requires that he sign power of attorney over to her. Her husband is not permitted to travel to England, even after he obtains his green card, but the family do spend several extended stays in Japan visiting hers. Finally, after several years of this, her husband decides he would like to begin recording music again, something that makes him happy. He collaborates on several demos with his personal assistant, a 23 year old who plays percussion on his recordings, instead of with friends like Paul McCartney, Elton John, David Bowie, or Mick Jagger…”
— An excellent synopsis of Yoko Ono and John Lennon, and the marriage that wasn’t. [x]
“I sincerely believed that I did my best to make Yoko feel welcome at Kenwood - and I would like to have been able to say she extended the same courtesy to me. But unfortunately her possessiveness and jealousy or insecurity, call it what you will, meant that she couldn’t bear to see John enjoying a close rapport with anyone but herself.“ His first row with Yoko happened while he was driving her and John in his own car from Abbey Road, where they had been recording Hey Jude, to Ringo’s flat in Montagu Square, where they were living. “I got lost as I didn’t know central London very well, and she started screaming at me: ’Get me home, get me home.’ I told her I wasn’t her fucking chauffeur. I said I was doing her a favour and if she wasn’t happy she could get out and walk home. John intervened and said: ’Pete, Pete, easy, easy; she’s dead tired.’” ”[After a nice visit with John in New York in the summer of 1976], he said we must do this again, before I left New York. I didn’t hear from him for a couple of days, so I rang him at the Dakota, on the private number he had given me. In the background I could hear Yoko shouting something and John saying: ’Look, Yoko, he’s fucking coming over and that’s it.’" At that night’s dinner, “they hardly spoke to each other or to me. John looked pale and drawn, not as fit and healthy as he’d looked three days earlier. We didn’t talk about the old days or personal things this time. Just about the occult and mysticism. ’Still searching then, John,’ I said. He told me he’d seen a flying saucer from his window at the Dakota.“ As Pete left, John shook his hand warmly and said: “Give my love to England.“ “And that was it. I never saw him again.”
— Pete Shotton, as told to Hunter Davis in his book, The Quarrymen [x]
Pete last saw John in 1975, and you’ve Yoko to thank for that. His bestfriend that he knew since they were bloody six.
“Yoko was an extremist and was even more intense than John taking any idea or comment of his to the limit. If, for example, he complained about any of his fellow Beatles she would hint that that Beatle had always been an enemy implying that John should never deal with that person again. Her extreme positions fascinated John and help him take his mind off himself but when she became self-involved and paranoid herself -her paranoia usually dealt with her career, her fame and the fact that even though she had always been famous everyone conspired to keep her from getting even more famous- he had no place to turn. His insecurity about his solo career, his childhood, his relationships with the other Beatles, the way the public perceived Yoko overwhelmed him and he became more and more involved with drugs.”
— May Pang, Loving John (1984)
“Mick called, and we chatted for a few minutes. Then I said, “Mick, I have something to tell you. John has gone back to Yoko.” There was a long pause. “I guess I’ve lost a friend”, he replied.”
— May Pang on the phone with Mick Jagger the night John went back to Yoko (Loving John) which is true, Yoko wouldn’t allow Mick around because he was a bad influence [but the others weren’t? okay]
“[John] was very much putting himself in the position where he was cut off from anyone that could pose a threat to the dynamic between him and Yoko, and I think nobody greater than Paul.”
— Robert Rodriguez, Something About the Beatles Episode 44 (referring to John’s isolation from 75-80
Their relationship was toxic as all Hell and they only fed into each other’s paranoia’s and insecurities.
He also cut ties with Mimi, many of his family members he’d once loved visiting and being around with.
You could say the exact same for Linda. She sent John a letter which made him mad (X), she helped with Too Many People, etc. Why are we blaming women for their husband’s emotions before blaming the husbands themselves?
Oh wow, she sent him one letter, that made him upset. God, too bad she didn’t send him many that led to her threatening to kill herself if he didn’t pay attention to her! Linda’s a bloody amateur compared to Yoko.
Yeah, and I don’t like Too Many People as much as I despise How Do You Sleep? And I never said I didn’t blame John or Paul for those songs, I place a lot of blame. But it’s different when you’ve someone encouraging your hateful, irrational emotions towards someone you love because it gives them delight. I don’t remember Linda saying how much she loved talking horribly about John to Paul like Yoko did– you know, that’s one thing she missed. Talking shit about Paul together.
Linda was trying to keep Paul from sinking down into despair, Yoko enabled John even though she KNEW he became violent and unstable. But hey, it’s alright because Linda sent a letter that made John upset.
I also place blame on George too for participating in that God awful song. No one is innocent, but they certainly were fanning the flames, especially Yoko.
Explain what you mean, seriously. This is such a broad term and can be used to define any number of actions. John was very controlling, he’s still loved. How was she controlling? She was an equal in the relationship, admittedly, but I don’t know what exactly you’re referring to.
I don’t know how difficult it is to understand what controlling means, since it isn’t a broad term at all. But if you want to play naive, then fine.
The Lost Weekend 1973-1975: even when Yoko wasn’t with John, she needed to be in control of who was. In ‘73 she suggested that John move to LA to build sexual relationships with other women. Little did he know that she had been setting him up with their receptionist May Pang all along. May had this to say about it;
Yoko said John would start seeing someone new and she wanted it to be “someone who would treat John well”. I now sensed a bombshell coming. I was thinking: “If they split, who will I be working for?”
Yoko continued: “You don’t have a boyfriend.” I dropped my pad and pen. Did I just hear right?
I assured her I wasn’t interested in John, if that’s what she was thinking, but Yoko didn’t stop there: “I think you should go out with him.”
I was dumbfounded and kept telling her no, but apparently her mind was made up.”
’…. the relationship between May and John was essentially initiated, controlled and then terminated by Yoko Ono.‘
-May Pang, forward for Loving John
There were instances where Yoko would call and ask about everything John had done that day, but refused to talk to him when May would offer. Yoko had closed the door on their relationship, and turned it into a one-way mirror.
VG: With Yoko telephoning daily it must have felt like a third party in the relationship. What was it like for you and John?
MP: The problem was 99% of her calls weren’t “Hello, how are you?” First they were directives to keep our relationship quiet, which was fine with me. Then John ‘announced it to the world’ by kissing me for Time Magazine and crisis mode kicked in. She would call with instructions of what to say, that she had thrown John out. She’d call everyday to remind us of what to say. One drama after another.
VG: Did you and John ever discuss marriage or having children together?
MP: Only when Yoko threatened to divorce him, John told me, “Soon I’ll be a free man…” One thing I learned being with John was to live spur-of-the-moment. There was always some new, unplanned adventure, almost on a daily basis.
VG: Did yours feel like a permanent relationship, or was there always a feeling that John would eventually go back to Yoko?
MP: Sometimes it would feel permanent, but he could be jerked back into Yoko’s mind games very easily. Also, as our relationship began so strangely I suppose it would have had to end just as strange, this was at the point when he was making moves to make a complete break from her. We were about to buy a home in Montauk, John had cemented a closer relationship with Julian as well as with Paul and plans for us to visit him and Linda in New Orleans too.
-May Pang and Viv Goldberg, Beatles Bible [x]
“Q: At first you saw John as being weak and subserviant to Yoko?
A: Well it was different for me. John was a quiet, good cat. She did all the talkin’. It looked kind of different to me, but I came to understand it as I came to understand John’s background.
Q: Did you have a moment alone with John?
A: Oh yeah. We went out several times, alone but then [Yoko] got a little hot and started leaving notes. We went outside snowmobiling, and I also had those six-wheel jiggers out there (ATV’s) and John had never played in the snow or anything. Right after that, John ordered a few for his farm in New York. Remember at that time they were doing that together thing and he asked [Yoko] a few times if it was OK to go out and play in the snow and she didn’t say anything and she was kind of hot at him for a day or two.
Q: What were your personal feelings of John and Yoko.
A: Well John, he was just nice. […] John was so powerful. I liked him. He wasn’t one of those hotshots, you know, all those other heavy metallers, you know how they act. John was a gentleman. Quiet, humble and polite. He wasn’t out of control.
Q: Your best rememberance of Yoko?
A: Well, she knew so many people. She called so many people and was in charge of so many things and told the number one man in the world of the Beatles what to do. I couldn’t understand that.
Q: Did you ever ask John about that?
A: No. I figured that was his business. If he wanted her to talk to him like that…but what I couldn’t understand that he didn’t have about four or five of the most beautiful women in the world with him, because he could have.”
— Ronnie Hawkins, talking about the time John and Yoko stayed with him at his farmhouse in Canada. [x]
“I really enjoyed talking with Jack Douglas who was the producer of Double Fantasy, the 1980 record. He was dealing with Yoko Ono, who was handling Lennon’s schedule. “As soon as I got John in the studio,” he told me, “Yoko dumped a bunch of tapes on me of her own material and added, don’t tell John but we’re making a duo album.” Apparently he was supposed to keep this a secret from John. Just complete craziness. It gave me a real big insight to what the marriage must have been like, how intimidated she was by Lennon on some level, right? Of course when they launched the record and presented it to the world it’s all, “Oh, we’re this happily married couple and we do everything together and write songs back and forth” — that’s not the way it was at all.”
— Tim Riley interview about John Lennon and the writing of his bio, National Post. [x]
She wasn’t intimidated by John; she was manipulating him.
No, John’s controlling nature is rightfully criticized, and he himself even pointed it out how it was a bad trait. John’s loved because he’s flawed but he was honest about it, tried owning up to it, tried improving.
“She was an equal in the relationship–”
Oh yeah, totally equals, totally–
“John’s new partner apparently encourages him to start taking heroin. She encourages him to sign with Allen Klein. She encourages him to end his partnership, and then his friendship, with Paul McCartney. She requires him to quit primal scream therapy, something that appears to be helping her husband calm down and work on his core traumas. She requires him to forego contact with his son. She requires him to move to New York. She requires him to move to Los Angeles with an employee she has selected while she conducts affairs in New York. When he begins to reconnect with old friends, his son, and his muse as a result of this arrangement, she requires him to return to her apartment. Three days later, he emerges, unsure of what day or year it is. He complains of having spent three days “puking his guts out.” He immediately breaks off his relationship with the employee, who was encouraging him to collaborate with Paul McCartney and returns to her apartment. In short order, he announces that he is retiring from the music business. According to multiple accounts, he begins to use heroin again, something that he may or may not continue to do for the next four or five years. After giving birth to a son—who may himself have been born addicted to heroin—she withdraws to a separate apartment. Her husband spends his time largely alone in his bedroom, a knife above his bed—a present from his wife, who has encouraged him to cut all ties with his past. She instructs his personal assistants—the only people with whom her husband is permitted regular contact—not to allow calls from his friends, family, and former collaborators to be put through. Her husband begins to show signs of serious depression and, possibly, addiction. She requires that he sign power of attorney over to her. Her husband is not permitted to travel to England, even after he obtains his green card, but the family do spend several extended stays in Japan visiting hers. Finally, after several years of this, her husband decides he would like to begin recording music again, something that makes him happy. He collaborates on several demos with his personal assistant, a 23 year old who plays percussion on his recordings, instead of with friends like Paul McCartney, Elton John, David Bowie, or Mick Jagger. She requires that she have equal space on this new album, which is to be about the couple’s marriage. However, she refuses to spend time with him that summer, encouraging or requiring him to spend time elsewhere while she carries on an affair in New York with a younger man. She asks attorneys about whether she might obtain more than half of her husband’s wealth in a divorce and is told that this will not be possible. Her husband begins working again, showing the first signs of happiness, focus, and enthusiasm in years. Shortly after the record is released, her husband is shot dead in front of her apartment. In the next few days—some say as soon as the next day—the man with whom she has been having an affair moves into her apartment and begins wearing her late husband’s clothes. She does not move out of the apartment, choosing instead to remain for the ensuing 39 years at the scene of her husband’s brutal—a site she must pass to enter or exit her home. She reluctantly permits her late husband’s first son to travel to New York after his murder, but does not allow his ex-wife to join the boy. Later, the boy must work with Paul McCartney to buy back items belonging to his late father that were apparently intended for him to receive in the event of his father’s death. I think Yoko’s feelings for John were complex and also not complex, if that makes any sense: I think at root, Yoko is driven by a fear of being poor and of not being in control of a situation.”
— An excellent synopsis of Yoko Ono and John Lennon, and the marriage that wasn’t. [x]
Jack Douglas (producer of Double Fantasy), interview w/ Ken Sharp for Record Collector: Starting over – The Double Fantasy sessions. (March, 1999)
“Those two [John and Yoko] could not work at the same time. If she were there, it would have been impossible. I had to treat that album [Double Fantasy] as two separate albums. I know that they’re both artists on the record, but I had to treat it as a John album and as a Yoko album. My routine was like this: 9am, breakfast with John. Yoko from 11am, and then John would go home. Yoko from 11 o'clock until about 6.30pm. And then she would go home. John would come in at 7pm and would work until about one or two in the morning. I never worked with both of them at the same time. It was impossible. Because she drove John crazy.”
— Jack Douglas (source) You know, John and Paul were equals, and while they had their moments of butting heads and getting into tiffs, it was NEVER like that.
She picked his friends, his staff, coworkers, assistants, controlled his calls, finances, encouraged asinine eating habits that didn’t help his eating disorder/body dysmorphia one bit[the dude had to fucking hide sweets from her] She talked over him, for him.
And you dare call them equals???? Hah! You’re fucking funny, you know that? Abusive, unhealthy relationship being one of equals… Jesus.
How so? Too tired to explain this, here’s a link: X.
Wow, you really sent me that, as a source? Are you new to this, discourse? Or are you just not used to people standing up to your bullshit arguments?
“On many levels she was very manipulative. I think she knew exactly what she was doing from day one. She played it innocent, but I think she had it all planned.”
Yoko was very cruel to him. If Julian called their house, not only would she prevent him from talking to John, she would also pretend the phone call had never taken place. When John died, Julian was seventeen years old. There was a very sad article I read awhile ago which explained that when John passed away, Julian and Cynthia were anxious to get to New York to attend his funeral. Yoko initially prohibited either of them from coming, but eventually struck up a deal where Julian was allowed to visit but Cynthia had to stay behind in Wales. Cynthia recalled how worried she was in the airport while she was seeing him off. Her son’s father had just passed away, and she wasn’t able to stay with him to make sure he was okay.
Immediately after he passed away, Yoko auctioned many of John’s things to private buyers without offering any of them to Julian. He spent most of his inherited estate buying his father’s possessions back from these buyers, including a postcard he had written to his father when he was a young boy. [x]
Yoko had even withheld Julian’s trust fund for 16 years.
“In the original divorce settlement, Julian was to receive £2,400 a year in maintenance and to inherit a £50,000 trust fund when he was 25. After a long legal wrangle, he secured a further settlement from the estate in 1996, the details of which he is forbidden to discuss. “No,” he says, “I don’t think it was necessarily fair, but I’m OK. The last thing I wanted was a court battle because there’s much more money on the estate side than my side.”
He didn’t much care about the money, he says wearily; it was the principle of the thing. He’s not after a sympathy vote, but what he found really sad was the lack of any personal mementoes, “seeing nothing offered to me at all, having to go out and buy back Dad’s stuff with his money”.
He recently paid £30,373 for the Afghan coat John Lennon wore on the cover of the Magical Mystery Tour album in 1967; £17,246 for a black velvet cape (worn in the Beatles’ film, Help!), and £25,000 for the scribbled notes of the song Hey Jude, written by Paul McCartney for Julian when his parents were splitting up.
-Julian Lennon interview with Elizabeth Grice, 1998 [x]
Interview with Julian, it’s a really great video and you should definitely watch it. [x]
Admittedly, Yoko shouldn’t have had an affair with Cynthia’s husband. Perhaps in the same way John shouldn’t have had an affair with Tony’s wife. Was John not cruel to Tony? Why is that okay? Isn’t he a bit of a homewrecker?
You think I’m okay with people having affairs? Don’t be stupid, it’s an ugly look.
And also, what else do you refer to when you say Yoko was cruel to Cynthia? Cynthia made it clear she didn’t like Yoko throughout her interviews in the 1970s, was that not cruel to Yoko? To the point John had to respond to Cyn in defense of his then-wife?
She didn’t allow Cynthia to go down with Julian, if he ever did visit. Even after John died, Cynthia was not to go, only Julian. And you think how she acted when stalking and harassing John was not poor treatment of Cynthia, too? Really??
“A freezing day in Moscow, before the cold war ended.” was Cynthia’s description of her relationship with Yoko.
This is too vague to even argue, unless you explain what you mean. Brought out the worst? Why was John at his worst in the 1970s? I honestly think 1975-1980 showed the most growth as a person.
“I knew the man up until our divorce – after that I didn’t know the man, but it didn’t stop me caring about him and worrying because of the complete change that I saw in him. He’d lost his sense of humour and he got aggressive; he wasn’t for the world any more, he was just for Yoko. Before that he opened his arms and embraced the world with his wit and humour – afterwards he was a completely different kind of person.”
Growth as a person, yeah, totally. Strange how years throughout that Growth, where he insulted and hurt not just Paul but many of the people who had worked with him professionally or who were old friends– it was an embarrassment to him and he spent the next 10 years occasionally having to apologize to acquaintances/friends/coworkers as he ran across them. Was rather embarrassed about the things he and Yoko had done [Bed-in] too, and about being political when John, really wasn’t to begin with. Everything john did wasn’t himself, it was yoko’s propaganda through him: HAIR PEACE, BED PEACE, TWO VIRGINS, YOKO ONO’S BOOK, KYOKO…ETC.ETC…She used his image to get what she wanted: money, personal advantages (kyoko), fame and attention from the media for her “artistic” works. This is the main reason why today, if I go on youtube and look for a john lennon song, the first shit that comes up is a PROMOTED VIDEO by yoko ono in which she sings her ‘artistic talent’ in front of an audience who paid a ticket to see this amazing artist’s concert.
Not to mention enabled his substance abuse because, despite being a powder keg and unstable he could be easier to handle when out of it. Isolated him, made him afraid and paranoid, enabled his unhealthy codependency even though she disliked being called Mother and actually wasn’t for that role, she herself felt that way. But hey, whatever to get what she needed and to stay in control, hmm?
Encouraged him to be friends, with scum of the earth Allen Klein and Phil Spector. But hey she liked them so…
Any growth that happened was faux and or nonexistent.
She was the one who had him go sober after the Lost Weekend. She helped him get off heroin. When she got pregnant with Sean, both of them decided to become healthier. She was the one who stopped John’s drinking, one of the things she refused to tolerate because she knew it often made him a mess and unhappy. Source: Lennon by Ray Coleman.
Oh I’m sure she had to be better when pregnant, which I’ll give her credit for unlike Courtney Love. But then right after Sean was born it was back to same ol’ same ol’. Babies don’t fix broken relationships.
No, he was still on heroin and cocaine. John was still an alcoholic too.
Forced them to keep tabs? John was also desperate to keep in touch. He never moved without making sure Yoko would call him. And when John insisted for Yoko to date David Spinozza so she wasn’t alone, why was he not also a “puppet master”?
There’s a difference between “Go on a date with this guy since we’re supposedly broken up, by you.” And “Here’s my assistant, someone I personally picked out for you to have an affair with, not just go on a date with, someone I’ll call and keep tabs on you, and if you two do anything I don’t like, I’ll pull my strings.” Like when John was going to go reunite with Paul in Louisiana, you know, do something that’ll make him happy.
If you can’t tell the difference then God help you.
John also checked up on her in her apartment, she wasn’t there and then John smashed one of her vases, prompting her to change the fucking locks. Why was John not controlling in that situation? Source: Lennon Revealed by Larry Kane.
If you think I’ll defend that, you’re naive.
Source? Was it Luciano? The man who tried to extort Sam Havadtoy and threatened to “sell his story” to the tabloids, even though he barely knew John? X
No, it’s just, fact. She moved on months before John was unfortunately killed. She was planning a divorce, she was bored of him, tired of “living in his shadow” when she’d been riding his goddamn coattails.
‘But I found it hard to take her tears seriously. I knew she was in a new relationship with Sam Havadtoy, a sculptor and antiques expert 20 years her junior, and a former Lennon aide. It was quite scandalous.’
On the same night as John’s murder, it is said, Havadtoy moved into the Dakota. He barely left Yoko’s side for months.
But suddenly, Sam took on a new image. Yoko had her young companion dress up in John’s old clothes, and wear his hair long, just like John’s. It was an impersonation that shocked and embarrassed their neighbours, including ballet star Rudolph Nureyev, who commented on it.
Havadtoy and Yoko wound up spending 20 years together – far longer than her marriage to John – and separated in 2000.
Peebles says: ‘I started asking myself whether she and Sam had been having a relationship before John’s death. All the pennies dropped at once.
Thanks for the italics. Both John and Yoko knew Sam because he designed some interiors for them in 1978, he also had an art gallery where he met people such as Andy Warhol, etc. In July 1981, Sam returned to do some work and turned out to make good conversation with Yoko and entertain Sean when they played together. He began to slowly come to some social gatherings with Yoko. Sometime between then and 1983, Sam moved in (I’m guessing, because from what I’ve read on them - not a lot, they were private - Sam was in The Dakota in February 1983). I don’t know the law regarding how soon somebody can get close to and comfort a widow.
There’s no law, but it’s a bit unsavory to have the man move in weeks after [not months, weeks] and then start wearing the clothes of your deceased husband that you apparently loved so much.
Even in the mid 1980s, Andy Warhol wrote in his diary that he wasn’t sure if Sam was Yoko’s boyfriend or what. Yoko made it very clear Sam was no replacement for John. Do you think this makes her immediately morally bankrupt? What’s the cut off? Was it okay for Paul to have met Heather one year after Linda’s death, and then later marry her and have a child with her? What’s the arbitrary line that Yoko crossed?
I have actually talked about Paul moving on immediately afterwards to Heather– firstly it as an unhealthy relationship [let’s say it might even mirror John’s and Yoko’s] and it was basically one of grief based off of Linda’s death. That, and Paul has the issue of needing to be in a relationship/married [can’t exactly be alone] I don’t agree with Paul’s decision, it was bad. I certainly don’t agree with Yoko’s either.
Yoko crossed a line when she had the man she was having an affair with move in and start wearing John’s clothes right after his bloody death, that’s my problem.
John’s body was so badly shot and mangled that cremation was one of the most viable options. John didn’t know he was going to be badly mangled. John also said he wanted to grow old with Yoko, it didn’t happen due to the extreme circumstances.
This is false, he was shot in the chest with hollow points. Unless he was shot to death with a bloody machine gun, which he wasn’t, then you’d have maybe a point. Unfortunately you can actually find photos of John’s body… intact. Do not lie, it’s shameful. John didn’t want to be cremated, he despised it, it terrified him– and she did it anyway.
Now let’s just go with your lie of his body being so badly mangled it was beyond recognizable or whatever… you can have a closed casket ceremony, you know.
She didn’t even care enough to respect his wishes of when he’d die, and you’re still defending her. Lying for her!
Should be ashamed of yourself.
What ceremony?? There was no funeral. She had a vigil and invited everyone to hold 10 minutes of silence on Dec 14, 1980.
Yoko Ono had Lennon’s body cremated at the Ferncliff Cemetery, and scattered his ashes in Central Park, in sight of their New York apartment. Five years later, the Strawberry Fields Memorial was dedicated on the approximate spot, and more or less serves as Lennon’s official gravesite.
2 seconds of research, c’mon keep up.
’’To this day we don’t know if John was buried or cremated. Yoko didn’t invite us to the funeral and we had to deal with our grief in our own way. The whole world was in shock over losing such an important musician and we were lost in the middle somewhere just missing our John.’ – Stanley Parkes, John’s cousin 2002.
Let me know when Yoko said Paul never helped her. She said she respected him and thanked him a lot when he said she didn’t break up the Beatles. X.
He was very much willing to help her, but she acted as if he didn’t. Played victim when Paul didn’t invite her to Linda’s ceremony [when she didn’t invite him to John’s, and I mean, can’t blame him. May was invited though]
In Sean’s Rolling Stone interview, he says that a few days after John died, his mom called him into his room and told him his father was dead. X’
Yeah, with Julian there who told Sean, and Sean had asked something about what court was dad was in or something [believing Julian was talking about a basketball court]
Again, here’s something explaining it: X. Terrific user/mod btw.
Do you mean the fact she used John’s glasses as an album cover, as well as to advocate for gun control? Why is that morally incorrect, exactly? My view on it has been pretty clear. I made a post about it here: X.
Also for the hell of it another POV:
While it is a bit morbid that she preserved John’s glasses that he died wearing, they were the cover to an album she entitled Season of Glass which was an allusion to the glasses and her grieving over her husband’s death. The press understood the album at the time as being “a personal expression of grief and rage over a violent and senseless tragedy”. It’s hard to underestimate how emotional John’s death was for a lot of people, and of course, Yoko was hurt worse than just about anybody else. I don’t think you can blame her for wanting people to remember the pain of it. She has since used the image to understandably advocate for gun control.
Calling it a “cash in” on John’s death is a really cynical view. She knew preserving John’s glasses he was wearing when he died was a piece of history, and she used them to remind people of the senselessness of his murder. It’s not any more of a “cash-in” than when the other three Beatles recorded “All Those Years Ago” in the months after John’s death, or Olivia and Dhani organizing the Concert For George when George died. Paul and Ringo’s families will surely do something for them when they pass on.
Beyond that, there will continue to be releases of merchandise with their names on it by all of their families for decades after they pass. That’s not so much as “cash-in” as just getting value back on the assets owned, because, of course, the inherited music rights are worthless if they aren’t used. The Beatles have/will all have bequeathed those rights to their loved ones for a reason.
She used every piece of John to make money. She did an exhibition with the clothes John wore the day he died, the glasses with the blood, to ‘sensitize the world about the amount of murders in America’. Do you think this is cool? ‘cause I don’t. There are many ways to sensitize the world, and bringing in a museum John’s clothes full of blood just to get attention is not ‘artistic’ in my opinion.
“For £17, anyone can gawk at [the bag containing John’s bloodstained clothing] and Lennon’s glasses, at New York’s Rock ‘n’ Roll Hall of Fame, alongside the Beatle’s old T-shirts and correspondence, in an exhibition titled John Lennon: The NYC Years. Last week, Ono told the Press conference held to launch the exhibition: ‘It was hard to include and I thought I might be criticised.’ She added that she felt it was ‘important for people to understand what violence is about’. Ono has campaigned against gun violence for years, once saying: ‘John, who was the king of the world and had everything any man could ever want, came back to me in a brown paper bag in the end. I want to show how many people have gone through similar tragedies.’ But not everyone is convinced that she has resorted to these shock tactics simply because she wishes to make a point. ‘I believe her when she says she’s still coming to terms with Lennon’s death,’ says rock writer David Hepworth. ‘But there’s grief and then there’s ghoulish exhibitionism. She defends the inclusion of the clothes in the exhibition on the grounds it’s important that people see the effects of gun violence– that’s balderdash. We know what gun violence does without having to see the 30-year-old evidence. ‘Yoko Ono is a conceptual artist and, like all her breed, is addicted to attention. It’s important for her to get attention for anything she does in her own right– and so she reaches for the one thing guaranteed to get her media attention.’ Lennon’s long-time friend Bill Harry agrees, and feels upset for the Beatle’s surviving family, to whom he is close. ‘When I heard about this, I thought: “Oh no! She’s at it again!” ’ says Mr Harry, who was at art college with Lennon and ran Merseybeat magazine, which had a close relationship with The Beatles. 'The world thinks John Lennon belongs to them, but Yoko thinks he belongs to her. ’She believes she owns the man and everything about him. She dictates how everything Lennon should be done, and no one can do a thing about it. 'The person in this position over Lennon’s legacy should protect their memory and reputation, not bring it into disrepute. ’Years ago, she sold replicas of the bloodstained glasses and shirt he was wearing when he was shot - the shirt for £16,000 and the glasses for £11,000. It was exploitation almost beyond belief.’ Some of her interventions show a talent for rewriting history that is breathtakingly brass-necked. In 2003, she consented to the release of the DVD Lennon Legend: The Very Best Of John Lennon. Yoko edited herself into the video for the classic song #9 Dream. But, in fact, the backing vocals on the hit were sung by Lennon’s then girlfriend, May Pang (he and Yoko had a 18-month break before they were reconciled and their son Sean was born). Ms Pang found herself airbrushed from history. She has authorised Lennon’s likeness on everything from coffee cups to sunscreen. There is even a watch featuring a picture of his buttocks. And she has broken a Beatles taboo by allowing his songs to be used commercially–most famously, when she gave permission for Nike to use The Beatles song Revolution to sell trainers. Sir Paul McCartney and the remaining Beatles sued Nike for $10 million. Nike stopped using the song. Ono immediately sold them the rights to use Lennon’s solo hit, Instant Karma, instead. Last year, she sold the use of Lennon’s ballad Real Love to the down-market chain store JCPenney as part of their Christmas advertising campaign. Ono again sold the Lennon brand last year, when she consented to a new Ben & Jerry’s ice cream, Imagine Whirled Peace, with peace signs made of fudge. Lennon’s signature was on the tub. Wouldn’t he have shuddered at the indignity? At the Dakota Building, where Ono has three apartments, one of the many bedrooms is filled with Lennon’s clothes on a revolving rail. She has talked more than once about 'seeing’ him and talking to him. If Lennon really does haunt that Gothic building, then a lot of his old friends wish he would have a word with Yoko– about the way she is choosing to remember him. As Bill Harry says: 'She wants her moment, and she wants to be at the centre of the picture. But the world just wants to remember and love John Lennon.’”
To compare George’s song for his bestfriend/like-brother after he died to having people pay to see John’s bloodied clothes and glasses, and make money off of it, is disingenuous at best if not shameful at worse. Or throwing a concert in remembrance. Do y’all not see the difference? Or you just being willfully blind again?
But let’s see how else she used John’s death for her own benefit;
“It wasn’t long before the scales fell from his eyes, however. He was at first surprised, and then bemused, as Yoko’s energy grew and grew. The grieving widow mounted exhibitions around the world, and expanded her profile as a musician. Indeed, she became more creatively active than ever before in her life.
‘It was obvious to me that John’s murder was working to her advantage,’ Peebles says.
‘I was embarrassed and ashamed at some of the decisions she made.
‘She used John’s death to hype her own new record, for example, and rushed to record a sentimental B-side compilation of bits of John talking as a souvenir. She compared John’s killing to the assassination of John F Kennedy, and herself to Jackie Onassis, insisting that their influence was greater than that of the Kennedys.
‘Out of nowhere, we had “Brand Lennon”. John would have loathed everything about it. I knew he wouldn’t have been comfortable with all that end-of-pier merchandise. He’d have laughed it off, most likely, but he would have seethed with anger inside.”
— Andy Peebles [x] and don’t tell me he isn’t reliable when he was pretty friendly with her for years after– that is until he left BBC and wasn’t influential for her.
When Julian and Paul etc forgave her, do you think it was magical? Do you think because she hasn’t gone up on stage to apologize for every sin in the fans eye, she has failed to reconcile with the actual people in her personal life?
I think it was because it’s better to let go then hold on when you literally can’t do anything about it. You think they’re buddy buddy with Yoko? Julian was tired, he had and is still spending time having to buyback a lot of his dad’s things. George asked Paul to forgive Yoko before he died because he didn’t want Paul holding onto anger when there’s nothing he could do. Very Christian point of view, George became very religious before he died. And it’s easier to let go and try to play nice when literally you have to go and get permission from that woman to have anything to do with John Lennon.
And it’s not even every sin! Are you mad? John fucking tried apologizing and showing remorse, and yet we can’t even ask of her for that??? Or that’s somehow asking for too much???
Paul never ONCE apologized for yelling at and kicking Ringo out of his house after Ringo delivered him a letter from George and John, telling Ringo such things as “I’ll finish you now” and “You’ll pay.” (Paul did admit he did this, but he didn’t publicly apologize, he just said that “things had got like that” X) … Except why would Paul apologize in public for a private disagreement? He’s under no obligation to “prove” to fans he apologized to a personal friend.
I love how we must bring in every one else to somehow make her “sins” seem so little.
I never said the Beatles were perfect, certainly not, especially since Ringo was actually abusive towards his wives [while he was suffering from alcoholism it’s no excuse for beating his wives to the point of having to go to the hospital] or George’s gaslighting and horrible treatment of Pattie at times. The fact Paul was incredibly unfaithful.
I’m not asking for “private” disagreements, I’m asking for at least acknowledgment of what she did.
We can see it in the fact he and Ringo obviously reconciled at some point, away from the public eye. I’m pretty sure Yoko did the same. If the actual people in Yoko’s life (Paul, Ringo, Julian, etc) have forgiven her, why is it a fans authority to assume she’s unforgivable? Also, here’s Yoko apologizing for public statements: 1, 2.
First one– “Yoko Ono has apologized to Paul McCartney for insinuating that his songs are trite.”
Oh, really? What about claiming all Paul did as a Beatle was book the studio? That it was all John? For her own terrible behavior towards him? [John at least tried showing remorse for the song and even claiming it was about him moreso then anything] Keeping his calls from John? How about her basically insinuating that Paul used John’s death to remind everyone that John loved him and all that?? What about THAT BULLSHIT???
The second one literally starts off with, “Yoko Ono offered an apology - sort of - to the Catholic Church for ripping apart a Bible during a concert in New York.” and literally has nothing to do with her abusive, manipulative, conniving behavior of those around her. Like yeah, all’s forgiven now, everything she’s done…
So was John the bad person? Or when John defended his song, do you not forgive him? Shall we cancel him? And no, Yoko didn’t think every man was subservient. She loved men, to the point she was criticized by feminists for writing a song about how she sympathized with them (I Want My Man To Rest Tonight). She made it clear she wanted peace with them (Y:”For some, the term “feminist” is a dirty word. I was always convinced that it is not only women who are strong, but also men who are strong. At some point this insight will still arrive.” X). I made a semi-related post here: X.
Sean is not at all a reliable source.
it was inspired by an interview by Yoko Ono with Nova Magazine in which she used the phrase
“She did an article about women in Nova more than two years back in which she said, ‘Woman is the nigger of the world’.”
‘Woman Is The Nigger Of the World’ was released on 24 April 1972 with B-Side, ‘Sisters O’Sisters’, written by Yoko Ono.
It was Yoko’s song, influenced by Yoko’s own goddamn words.
Lol she loved men? Really???? No, she didn’t. Her first husband claimed she saw men as subservient/assistants to her and expected them to stay at home and watch the kid while she ran everything else, which John brought up himself and agreed [imagine if John was like that, imagine the shitstorm that would’ve brought today? But it’s alright because it’s a woman] and treated everyone like servants because she actually came from a wealthy family.
Do you think a widow is not allowed to be connected to their spouse?
Not when the ‘widow’ had moved on months beforehand [I’d say years their marriage had collapsed but whatever] and she was planning on a divorce, with John himself claiming the era of YokoandJohn was over.
Oh I’m fucking sure there was a great deal more going on there that we may never know because Yoko certainly wouldn’t want it to get out in case it makes her and her LIE of a relationship and love with John pop out. No, can’t have that, now can we? She carried on being portrayed as ‘john’s widow’ for the rest of her life. She didn’t show to the world how much she moved on, the truth behind her relationship with john, and she was very clever at hiding her life while showing another image of her to the world, the ‘saint’ woman who cried every day for john’s death.
Should Paul stop using Linda to promote her recipes and photography, in the same way Yoko “uses” John to promote his albums and beliefs?
He wants to keep her memory alive. John’s beliefs weren’t even really his, if anything he’d just, gone along with whatever she said– like her radical views on everything.
Cynthia “used” John’s name in her book and interviews.
She wanted to show the world the John Lennon she knew, not the one portrayed out in the media as a Brand.
Are you mad at Olivia for using George as well?
No, Olivia seemed to actually love George, and not use him.
Never has ‘the argument’ been “You only hate Yoko because she’s not white! Because she’s a woman!”. An argument has certainly been “The portrayal and judgement of Yoko was affected by the sexist and racist attitudes at the time of her appearance in the public eye.
That’s literally the argument you just made, right there. It’s sexist and racist to be critical of Yoko because she’s… not white.. and a woman… When literally, no.
These attitudes, which shaped how people viewed her (”John Rennon’s Excrusive Gloupie”, “Witch”, “Dragon Lady”, etc), have affected people’s opinion of Yoko to this day. This is why re-evaluation in a fresh light is necessary for a fair and accurate judgement.”
Her being a “witch” or “dragon lady” is just, that isn’t even fucking serious. You think that’s what affect people’s opinion of Yoko? Do you really think that’s all there is? If you so much as point out her horrid behavior and actions, it’s only because we’re racist and sexist? Really…
Boy, that just sounds like a bottom of the barrel argument when you have nothing else.
She’s just a shit fucking person, that’s why a majority of us dislike her or cannot support her, to this day. She’s unlikeable because she does unlikeable things.
“Still, the real reason that people disliked Yoko was because she ordered them about and sent them on errands in a particularly rude way; she was brought up with servants, and that’s how she treated the staff of Apple. George found it particularly galling that she never gave the Beatles their definite article. He told me, ‘She would say, “Beatles do this” and “Beatles do that”, and we would say, “Uh, it’s the Beatles actually, love.” She’d look at you and say, “Beatles do this.”’ And he laughed and shrugged his shoulders. Whether Yoko was ever aware of the disruption her presence caused to the Beatles’ working practices I don’t know. Some people thought she was so involved in her own work and self-interest that she didn’t notice; others thought that it was a deliberate ploy to separate John off from the others.”
— Barry Miles, The Zapple Diaries. (2015)
Or you can twist the argument. I’ve seen a lot of things about Yoko Ono be twisted to demonize her in the worst possible way. Strawman the hell out of it, provide an argument in bad faith, participate in the false information loop, try to paint rather understandable decisions or interpersonal issues in the worst possible light. Peace and love, @johns-prince
Oh I’ve twisted the argument? Really? When all I see from y’all is “It’s so cruel they hate her simply because she’s a woman and not white and wahwahwahwah!–” Nothing original. That’s literally all it comes down to– her having a cunt and being non-white.
That’s literally why y’all defend her nasty, vile ass.
And try to then portray us as hateful, racist, misogynists/internalized misogynists, like your buddy @comewhatbrianmay attempted with their “article” [really a glorized blog post with zero sources] and tried to passive aggressively claim I was the side of the Beatles fandom they didn’t know existed! [Sexist, racist, internalized misogyny…] because I don’t support a trash human being simply because she’s got a vagina and happens to be a minority [As someone who’s got a vagina, and a minority, the fact I’m supposed to support someone simply because of that, is honestly lowkey racist and sexist]
“This woman stalked paul mccartney in 1966. he refused to see her many times. when paul literally insulted her, she started stalking john and cynthia. when cynthia went in greece for a weekend, yoko went to john’s house, walking in by the kitchen’s door literally getting in his bed. She married john lennon in 1969. after 3 years she was already splitting with him, but she came back. In 1975 John wrote ‘Mind Games’ and in an interview said he wrote that song because he was ready to leave Yoko. She didn’t let him. In 1980 she was already engaged with another man, the divorce was very close, and John died. She married another man in 1981, but carried on living her life pretending to be ‘john’s wife’ for 40 years. nobody knows who her husband is and why she hides his identity and her true life, but she keeps living the Yoko&John™ life, getting interviews about john lennon, speaking for him, talking about the Beatles era, making ‘art exhibitions’ and getting money to show the audience her husbands clothes full of blood, and pretending to be an ‘artist’ who makes modern art with her music “ [x]
how john and yoko’s relationship is not healthy
what happened between john & paul after yoko and after the break up
the dark truth about Yoko
John & Yoko’s public persona, and “love” is almost entirely artificially crafted. THIS is corroborated (and detailed) by nearly everyone close to them- May Pang, Ray Connolly, the Dakota staff…
“Understandable decisions” Wow, uh, no! Everything she did was out of self interest and to either hurt others! Because she could! Yoko is factually a manipulative stalker who mentally/emotionally abused John, cruel to everyone who loved him and wanted to be near him, and uses John and continues to do so today!
Don’t “Peace and Love” me when you’re so eager to defend someone who isn’t even about legit peace and love. Y’all who stan this woman baffle and disgust me like those who defend and stan Amber Heard and Courtney Love.
#if i’m racist why do i jerk off to hentai? check mate#SEE i dont hate EVERY SINGLE WOMAN this means i am BIAS FREE from SEXISM completely. the sexism in media has never affected me!!#the portrayal of yoko has the Oriental witch?? never affected how i saw her#this is why i do not have to change or re evaluate my opinon#sorry im harsh lol#but so is OP#no regrats#support yoko#yoko ono#long post#quote
And I’m strawmanning? You aren’t harsh, you’re just, pathetic.
But what a fascinating ‘’essay’’ indeed…
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