Zach: Hey, Taylor, how are you!
Taylor: I'm so good, how are you doing?
Zach: Oh, I'm doing phenomenal. I am thriving over here. And by the way, it is me and Dan, we're together, just uh, hanging out, you know. Soaked in ME! all weekend! Thank you for creating it, because it just made me feel good about myself. I really appreciated it.
Taylor: Oh good! Thank you so much for telling me that; I'm so glad!
Zach: Really, just I don't know! It just made me feel like I wanted to embrace who I was!
Zach: In this creation process, did you create this song first? Was this the start of the next era of Taylor?
Taylor: No, it actually wasn't the first song we created, but as soon as I wrote the chorus, I pretty much knew that this was really special, and I felt like, you know. With a first single, it's always really difficult to pick a first single for my albums because I try to make an album that's so vast that it's hard to pick which one song could just sum up what the album is. But I knew that this one, it felt like a celebration. It felt like something that could make you feel good. And I just want that for people, I want that for me when I perform it. I wanna, like, feel good and positive and hopeful. I think that, you know, a song is sort of a mantra when you think about it. If you get a song stuck in your head, that's sort of the message you're telling yourself, whether it's intentional or not.
Zach: This message, for me, and granted, you've said you don't want the song to be taken too seriously. But, really, the underlying message around the fun, whimsical video and these really easy, fun lyrics...it is to love yourself for you. Did you feel like you had to do that before creating a record about it?
Taylor: Well I think that that sort of thing, when we talk about being happy or loving yourself, those are all sort of things that we feel sometimes, you know? And maybe this song is a glimpse of that moment when we do feel like that, when we're having just the best day. You know, the sun is shining, it's gonna be an okay day. Everything's gonna be good. I'm alright with myself. But I think one thing to always keep tabs on is the fact that we have to know that there is no happily ever after where we're just happy forever. Happiness is always going to be a struggle and a challenge that we have to try and meet, um, self-worth is always gonna be a process. That's not naturally how we're going to feel all the time. Even in the moment when I'm feeling really, really low, I think that it will be helpful when I get to go on stage and play this song and see other people singing it back to me. You know, it's not just the song that's for "oh, put this on when you feel good about yourself," it's like, "no, put this on when you don't feel good about yourself and maybe that will help you get back." That's how I look at it, because I definitely don't feel good all the time, and I don't think anybody does.
Zach: Did you have to have your entire album done before picking this single?
Taylor: I mean, every artist is different, but I definitely like to have it done. I like to plan things out, I like to plan little fun clues for people. I like to be able to have the information to give them, and when I have something done, that's when I can fully plan and make it the most fun experience for fans to uncover it. So, that's what I did on this one. I'm really, really proud of it. I can't wait for more things to come out, I really can't.
Zach: What story are you telling with this album?
Taylor: This album is a pretty big story; there’s a lot to say. There’s a lot that is said. It goes pretty in-depth in lyrics that I’m really proud of. Like I said, a lot of times I’ll pick a first single because I like the feeling that it conveys, knowing that there’s a lot more on the album that’s very different from that first single, which is something that I think the fans have picked up on at this point… But yeah, it's really about like, what song did I want to pick that's going to go out into the world and we get to go perform it and have fun with it? And with the album, I’m just really, really excited for more to get revealed about it. I definitely want to be able to do that with the fans, to the fans, and explain to them where I was coming from with it.
Zach: I'm so excited for it! It's kinda crazy! I'm telling you, these secrets, it keeps me on the edge of my seat!
Taylor: Thank you!! Aww! You guys are so sweet!
Dan: Has anyone found the name of the album title yet in the music video?
Taylor: Yeah, definitely, there are a few people who have gotten it.
Dan: (laughing) And you haven't told them yet?
Taylor: I'm not gonna tell you who! I haven't told them yet! But, I think they'll know, when I tell them what it is, and they'll be like, "I was right, I knew it." But yeah, I really think that music is such an awesome thing to get to make music and have it come out. But I also really want it to be an event where music comes out and you watch the video and you talk about it with your friends and it makes you think a little bit more about, "oh, what's hidden in this video?" And that's really fun for me to do because the fans have been so clever and so eagle-eyed when they watch a video. It made me wanna put more clues in the video.
Zach: What keeps all of this fresh for you? Is it being able to do stuff like that? Is it directing your own music videos? Which, by the way, the video was outstanding. Visually, stunning. So cool.
Taylor: Awwwww THANK YOU!! You know, working with Dave Mayers on this video was so awesome because I'd never worked with him before. I wrote this treatment, brought it to him, played him the song, and we just kind of tried to go all out on visual effects and symbolism and what messages we wanted to convey and what little things we wanted to hide in the video. What keeps this fresh for me - it’s not always fresh for me. There've been times I’ve needed to take years off because I just felt exhausted, or I felt really low or really bad… and so you never really have the same process making an album. Right now, thankfully, I feel really energized, which I'm feeling really grateful for. It’s not something that I take for granted, that I feel this energized and this excited about this new music, because now I know that’s not something you always feel. Like, sometimes you can just feel really scared about everything, so I'm very very conscious about how I do feel about this new music and how there's such excitement surrounding it... I try to take sort of a mental, emotional snapshot of that and just remember that I’m really lucky that I get to feel this way. Thanks for asking! But yeah, I think it's just one of those things like being happy or feeling good about yourself: that's not always the case. So when I do feel good, and I do feel happy, and I do feel excited about new music, I'm just like yes, thank God, okay, awesome. We're doing good today!
Dan: When did you decide Brendon Urie was perfect for ME! because I don't think anyone was expecting that collaboration!
Taylor: Ugh! Yeah! He's the perfect person for this song and I think I realized it after - I went in the studio with Joel Little, who's an amazing writer and producer. I was working with him and we made the first half of the song and I think both of us realized at the same time, we want this to be a duet. We want this to be sort of a love-interest type thing where you've got two sides of a relationship and both people are like, you're not gonna leave me, I'm not gonna leave you, I know you're special, you know I'm special, and we both know that we're special. I think that in that messaging I wanted to bring someone in who was gonna help us write the end of the song; I wanted to leave all of that sort of blank so that he could come in and write his second verse and write the bridge with us. So I wanted someone who was a write, who was gonna be really really excited about performing. Because, when you do a collaboration, you're really at the mercy of the other person's excitement level. If they're not excited about doing a video, or they're not excited about performing it with you, it can bring it down, I think. So you have to choose carefully. With this one, I wanted to pick someone who is literally so enthusiastic about music that he would bring the level of energy UP, and that's exactly what Brendon did. He is SO phenomenal, and I was such a fan before and I'm fifty times as much of a fan now that I've been around him. He's just SO amazing at what he does.
Zach: It's crazy, and the fact that the generations of people who love him... now, like, my young cousin who's 11 or 12, her first concert was Panic! I remember sitting in front of a fat iMac watching Sins not Tragedies when I was 12 years old, too.
Taylor: OH MY GOD! That is SUCH a visceral memory, I remember that too!! (laughing)
Zach: But like, he's weathered every storm! He's been around! He's beyond an OG and he keeps redefining and evolving music! It's- yeah. I love him.
Taylor: Yeah! And I think that's an amazing goal, and I think it's amazing to see that in a performer where they can, like, pivot, and kind of zig and zig and figure out ways to sort of make what they do new again. Like, THAT'S amazing!
Zach: I'm being wrapped up, and I would love for you to come by our studio. Open invitation, whenever you're around and have time; what's mine is yours, Taylor Swift. I appreciate you giving us time and energy today. Thank you so much!
Taylor: Thank you! I would love to come by and see you guys; thank you so much for inviting me!
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