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So did they really never even sit down and talk about the homoerotic elements of the story they were telling? But how do you end up with something like Peanuts then? Just by being all "haha Matt so afraid of losing Jay he sabotages any attempt of him getting a girlfriend? because that's funny, that he's jealous." But they said they weren't ever fully acting, only playing exaggareted versions of themselves, quasi-real, more sincere and impulsive, definitely expressing something very true about themselves in some sense. Add this with the fact that a lot of narrative from the webseries just came together during the editing process, and they just shot whatever sometimes (like Jay saying the stuff he said about being afraid of aging was just him sincerely expressing that fear). I'm not even sure whether it's more strange to consciously sit down and conceptialize that as a fascet of your work, or it just evolving naturally, and then not reflecting on it for the longest time. But how could it not have come up, at least later, when one of the initial ideas for the movie was meant to be a play on The Talented Mr Ripley? And then now, flashforward to later where Matt is asked about this theme in his work in general, where it's joked back at him that he's always telling the story of him "secretly in love with his hotter friend." And with the silly Heated Rivalry parallels promo they did, it's clearly an acknowledged theme, but mostly in a jokey way. I really want to understand Jay's perspective on this. Because even if they never talked about it in the early days, he's clearly aware of it now. But it has to be muddled in with the fact that what they were portraying on the show and, even stronger, in the movie is not actually the real life dynamic of their relationship. At least not at this point, and potentially in some ways even a little turned on its head. That has to be such a mindfuck.
I really want a brioche with pan-fried tempeh, avocado and arugula, and some sort of lime-cashew-sauce. And oven-roasted miso-seasoned hemp seeds sprinkled on top.
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matt & jay on the intersection between their characters and their real selves (transcript below)
INT: You've been doing this for 20 years. Presumably the two of you personally have grown and evolved and had events in your lives in those intervening years; have you diverged from the characters, or do you still feel that they're pretty close to the real Matt and Jay?
JAY: I can always access the Jay that is the Jay in Nirvanna the Band. It's basically just tapping into your deepest, darkest instincts and allowing yourself to just be impulsive and vulnerable, and it's fun to do that. And I think right away when we started this, even when we were kids, we knew how to kind of be vulnerable like that, and we found it very funny, that when it felt very sincere and real, it was contributing to what we liked about shooting the show. Because we liked the sincerity of it.
And I guess, yeah, we've grown up, we've gotten better at making music and films, but we keep each other honest when we shoot it still, even at this age, to sort of make sure that we're still being quite naked with each other. [laughs]
INT: Matt, do you still feel that connection to the Matt character there?
MATT: My answer's slightly different, I feel like the older I get the more I become like that. I think the archetype, it acts on me in the same way that l act on it, because it is very much a shadow of myself. In the same way that Peter Pan chases his own shadow, like that's a pivotal part of that myth, I witness this happening to me. And it's a gift, because it means the older I get, the more connected I am to this adolescent moron, in a way. And I use that term with all due respect, because the ignorance allows this character to be so foolishly optimistic about his own future, the chances of success, gives him the confidence to pitch wild-eyed ideas that really have no basis in reality, yet, again, just might work.
INT: Do you ever feel like the characters hold you back from real-life growth? That as you enter maybe relationships, or financial things, do you feel the Nirvanna Matt and Jay on your shoulder telling you, “That's too...”
MATT: No, it's the exact opposite. Because, I mean, again, it's The Picture of Dorian Gray! It's like the movie versions of us get to die and make these mistakes and do these insane decisions so that we don't need to do them. Right? It's the same as lying in bed and imagining a bad decision and running it out like a video game, and then going, “Yeah, maybe I shouldn't do that.” We get to exorcise our demons!
JAY: It seems like the more we explore and get to shoot and be vulnerable with these sort of like pseudo-real versions of ourselves, that you're faced with it, and you have a self-awareness of it, so that when you leave that character on the floor of the scene or whatever, you can actually learn to grow away from it, and you learn about yourself and you go, “Oh wow, I'm glad I'm not actually out of control of this part of myself, but I have it in control.”
everyone knows about #that young lust performance from the wall tour but nobody ever talks about this insane version of run like hell where roger is literally losing his mind
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