Liberté Égalité Fraternité !

So this post started because I was looking through the waybackmachine on the Internet Archive for the old Disney Fairies site for a friend, and remembered I'd backed up some old musical related sites a couple years ago on the waybackmachine just to archive them.

Which made me remember how recently I saw someone on here, I don't remember who, asking if there were interviews either about Elisabeth das Musical or specifically with Uwe Kroger (the actor who originated the role of Der Tod/Death) in English to which someone had answered no but there are some quotes and fragments in other posts on here. Which made me remember an old website I'd found that did have interviews on and I went out to find it. After I found it, I tried to find another website I'd found that had nice old photos of Uwe on that I'd save for I'd never seen them anywhere else, but sadly can no longer find the site and I hadn't bookmarked it or archived it. But, in doing so I did find some others.

So, come along with me as I find some ye olde websites based around European Musicals and Non-English Musicals, all of which I am archiving using the waybackmachine and can be found on my archive.org account @ wennli3b3 under the 'web archives' tab on my profile.

What is old web? The aesthetics wiki describes it as "Essentially consisting of screencaps and gifs, Old Web is an aesthetic utilizing traditional web design elements combined with aspects of poetry and self-expression. This also includes GIFs, video games, and clip-art. This aesthetic expresses nostalgia for Internet culture of the early 1990s to early 2010s." Think of old GeoCities and AngelFire websites, the pre-2010s internet where it wasn't uncommon for anyone to make their own little website for anything and the internet wasn't just social media. There's just such a charm for me about these old sites and the work people put into customising and decorating their sites, often just as a fun project for themselves or a way to document things they loved. Therefore the websites we'll be looking at are from the 90s up to the late 2000s, 2010s and onwards websites don't count for this list.

What is the waybackmachine? The waybackmachine is hosted on the Internet Archive, it's a digital archive of websites that lets you visit websites as they were during the past if they've been archived there.

[Note: this post won't have clickable links because that can make Tumblr unhappy and either hide or soft-block my post, so sadly no clickable links, but I will write out the links with spaces in the hopes that won't hide the post and you will just have to type them in for yourselves, and I will link my web archive page in the replies to this post. I am also not claiming to be the first to back these sites up or discover them, some of them have already been archived in past, but doing them all under one account means you guys can have an easy list of them all in one place. Some of these sites no longer exist and are only accessible via the waybackmachine, in those cases I will save those sites to my web archive so they are all listed on one page.]

1. musicalvienna . at

Staring with a website some of you will be familiar with and while in it's current 2023 form doesn't count as old web and is easily accessible, we're going back in time with the waybackmachine to see how the site looked and what information it had about old current productions in 2000-2008. And frankly I don't know what to do with the information that at some point in 2000 there was a 'vampire museum' inside the Raimund Theatre that had what appears to be a wax figure of Steve Barton in his original Graf von Krolock costume. I. What??

2. eljen . net / kroeger

A fansite dedicated to Uwe Kroger, the actor, that was run seemingly from 1998-2002 that old photos, links to music that no longer work, but most important to me is the 'Press' page that has many articles and interviews with Uwe that have been translated into English! The site is also available in German eljen . net / kroeger / deutsch. A special shoutout to Uwe's own drawing of himself as Der Tod.

can u give some fun facts/cool anedoctes about them??? Thank youuu =)

They are cute together, aren't they? This is such a beautiful Daddy-Son-Relationship.

After the Battle of Monmouth Washington and Lafayette were napping under a tree on Washington's cloak, while Nathaniel Greene shooed everyone away who wanted to disturb them

Lafayette always wanted Washington to come to visit him in Paris after the war and see his country. It never happened because Washington did not know a word of French and feared that the British would kill him as soon as he took one step out of America

Lafayette started his letters to Washington with "My dear General" and Washington started his letters to Lafayette with "My dear Marquis"

Lafayette named his son after Washington

Lafayette once kissed Washington on both cheeks (For the record, no one even dared to touch Washington and Washington didn't even like it to be touched)

Washington called Lafayette his "adopted son" and Lafayette equally saw Washington as his "adopted father"

At their first meeting, Washington said the word "Family". While Washington meant his "Military Family" Lafayette thought he would be adopted by Washington in his personal household

Washington originally thought he had to babysit Lafayette (which he kinda did)

Lafayette worshipped Washington from the first time they met

Thank you!

Dear Anon,

yes, I did read Mike Duncan’s Hero of Two Worlds and although it has been a few years, I knew that I was quite exited when the book was first released. I am not a Podcast-person, but I had been told that Duncan is quite an excellent history podcaster, and his book was a more recent publication then some other works out there. Duncan covers La Fayette’s life from cradle to grave with a marked focus on the American and French Revolution – as was expected. His writing style is very comprehensible and although the book is around 500-ish pages, it still was an easy and fast read.

As to recommending it, that depends a bit on what you are looking for in a book about La Fayette. As a general overview about the Marquis’ life, I can recommend the book. Harlow Giles Unger’s Lafayette is often cited as the best general biography but while Unger’s book is maybe a tad more detailed, I prefer Duncan’s handling of source material. There were a few little things that made me pause while reading but these were mostly differentiating interpretations.

As I said, it is a very general biography that covers La Fayette’s whole life in one book. If you are looking for an insight into a specific aspect of La Fayette’s life or a very detailed analyzes of his every move, Duncan’s book understandably falls flat.

I remember that I liked the book when reading it, but I was not blown out of the water. There was nothing one had not heard of before and by that time I had read enough about La Fayette to not be surprised by the book. But Duncan proofed that he understood the core of La Fayette’s character.

In short, Hero of Two Worlds is a fine book – especially if you are trying to get an overview of La Fayette’s life and this is maybe one of your first books about him.

“[December 25, 1778]

25. Friday. Christmas day, I dined at the Presidents of this state, Genl. Washington & his lady & suit, The presidt. of Congress, Colo. Laurens, my Colleagues, General Whipple & Don Juane,(1) dind. with us.”

Hey there, anon! I’d be more then happy to do that for you!

These are the majority of my amrev books, sparing a few tucked away under my bed, and maybe a couple I just missed off the shelf, the majority of them are amrev bios, with a few historical fictions and stories thrown in for good measure.

I’ve tried to priorities them all into certain categories of person/event/time, and they are listed left-to-right below each photo! Hope this helps!

General events:

Founding Fathers (by Captivating History)

The Founding Fortunes (by Tom Shachtman)

The Glorious Cause (by Robert Middlekauff)

Valiant Ambition (by Nathaniel Philbrick)

Redcoats and Rebels (by Christopher Hibbert)

General Events:

(From left to right)

The British are coming (by Rick Atkinson)

Rebels & Redcoats (by Hugh Bicheno)

1776 (by David McCullough)

Scars of independence (by Holger Hoock)

General events/key figures:

American Revolutions - a continental history 1750 - 1804 (By Alan Taylor)

The Drillmaster of Valley Forge - The Baron de Steuben and the making of the American army (by Paul Lockhart)

Revolutionary Characters (by Gordon S. Wood)

George Washington’s secret six - the spy ring that saved the American revolution (by Brian Kilmeade and Don Yaeger)

Key figures (Laurens, Arnold and Hale.):

Duty and Inclination (by Rebecca Dupont)

John Laurens and the American revolution (Gregory D. Massey)

Benedict Arnold (by Robert Zubrin)

The Martyr and the Traitor (by Virginia DeJohn Anderson)

Alexander Hamilton centric:

Alexander Hamilton (by Ron Chernow)

Alexander Hamilton - Adultery and Apology (forwarded by Robert P Watson)

Hamilton and Peggy - a revolutionary friendship (by L.M Elliott)

Hamilton’s choice (by Jack Casey)

George Washington centric:

Washington - A life (by Ron Chernow)

Washington’s Crossing (by David Hackett Fischer)

Adopted Son - Washington, Lafayette and the friendship that saved the revolution (by David A. Clary)

Martha Washington - An American life (by Patricia Brady)

Eliza Schuyler Hamilton Centric:

(The second and third book on this list are supposed to be historical fiction, but just take the accuracies with a grain of salt, if you will)

The Founding Mothers (by Thomas Jacobs)

I, Eliza Hamilton (by Susan Holloway Scott)

My Dear Hamilton (by Stephanie Dray and Laura Kamoie)

Marquis De Lafayette Centric:

Hero of Two Worlds (by Mike Duncan)

Lafayette (by Harlow Giles Unger)

Lafayette comes to America (by Louis R. Gottschalk (this book was a bitch to find in Europe, I tell ya.))

The Marquis - Lafayette reconsidered (by Laura Auriccho)

Political texts:

Common Sense, Rights of Man and other essential writings (by Thomas Paine)

The federalist papers (by John Jay, James Madison and Alexander Hamilton)

The penguin guide to the American constitution (by Richard Beeman)

The Declaration of Independence - with short biographies of its signers. (No designated author.)

Key figures (Hamilton, Adams and Jefferson.):

The Patriots (by Winston Groom)

Hamilton (by Tony Williams)

Thomas Jefferson - the art of power (by John Meacham)

John Adams (by David McCullough)

So, I have two different things to ask, but I'll make them both, sorry to be bothering and hope this doesnt get too long lol

1st. I know that Adrienne was a deeply Christian woman from birth to death, and I know that in some time in her life she helped out Protestants (?). So, my question here is basically, did she always helped people from other religions like that? or that was just something she used to do out of charity without caring too much about those people? Did she always sort of have it in her or did she only started it because of everything that was happening in the country? (dont know if i worded that in a understandable way, if i didnt let me know)

2nd. did the lafayette's (and their respective families) owned any sort of pets? (I've heard of that dog that Gilbert had and when he died, it went to live with his valet (?), but when did he got that dog too? did it simply appear in front of the house and it stayed? so many questions... so many questions... lmao)

Dear @msrandonstuff,

Don’t you worry, I am never bothered by asks! :-)

For the first question, Adrienne was a devout catholic. She was taught by her mother and the duchess d’Ayen always allowed Adrienne, her sisters and later La Fayette, when he moved in with the family, to question things. In my opinion that is not only a very healthy way to teach religion but also reduces prejudges. Adrienne's husband La Fayette was a great champignon of religious freedom. He wrote to George Washington on May 11, 1785:

102 ⟨Protestants⟩ in 12 ⟨France⟩ are under intolerable 80 ⟨Despotism⟩—altho’ oppen persecution does not now Exist, yet it depends upon the whim of 25 ⟨king⟩; 28 ⟨queen⟩, 29 ⟨parliament⟩, or any of 32 ⟨the Ministers⟩—marriages are not legal among them—their wills Have no force By law—their children are to Be Bastards—their parsons to Be Hanged—I Have put it into My Head to Be a 1400 ⟨Leader⟩ in that affair, and to Have their Situation changed—with that wiew I am Going, under other pretences to Visit their chief places of abode, With a Consent of 42 ⟨Castries⟩, and an other—(…) it is a Work of time, and of Some danger to me, Because none of them Would give me a Scrap of paper, or Countenance whatsoever—But I Run My chance—(…).

“To George Washington from Lafayette, 11 May 1785,” Founders Online, National Archives, [Original source: The Papers of George Washington, Confederation Series, vol. 2, 18 July 1784 – 18 May 1785, ed. W. W. Abbot. Charlottesville: University Press of Virginia, 1992, pp. 550–551.] (10/01/2022)

La Fayette was not lying, when he said that the undertaking could be somewhat dangerous to him. He wrote his letter in ciphers, tasked John Quincy Adams with delivering the letter personally because Adams was just returning to the States and asked Washington not to reply to his portion of the letter. Washington urged La Fayette to be carful and to that La Fayette replied on February 11, 1786:

(…) I thank you most tenderly, my dear General, for the Caution You Give me, which I will improve, and find that Satisfaction in my prudence to think it is dictated By You—I Hope, Betwen us, that in the Course of Next winter the affair of the protestants Will take a Good turn (…)

“To George Washington from Lafayette, 6 February 1786,” Founders Online, National Archives, [Original source: The Papers of George Washington, Confederation Series, vol. 3, 19 May 1785 – 31 March 1786, ed. W. W. Abbot. Charlottesville: University Press of Virginia, 1994, pp. 538–547.] (10/01/2022)

I got a bit distracted here so back to the question at hand. Adrienne was not opposed to Protestants gaining civil rights, but she was very opposed to every action that was directed against the Roman Catholic religion. She absolutely and staunchly refused to take mess from a priest who had sworn the civil oath and when La Fayette, himself more or less reluctantly, received the new Bishop of Paris for dinner, Adrienne made it a point to not partake. That was not just a private dispute about religious customs, but her absence at the dinner table made national headlines.

La Fayette was not happy about Adrienne’s behaviors during this time as he himself was between a rock and a hard place. He believed in religious freedom but was forced to carry out the politics of the assembly – politics that he often did not fully support. Adrienne was normally his strength and stay but in matters of religion she refused to bow even to her husband.

Adrienne had a firm stand on religious matters and she was willing to face serious repercussions for following her faith. I could not recall a specific event where Adrienne helped Protestants in particular and I also think that she did not knew a great many Protestants personally (simply because they were not in her private circles.) But Adrienne was also a gentle and carrying soul, a mother and someone who deeply believed in Christian charity, and I therefore can not imagine that she would have turned away someone needing or seeking her help, solely because of their religion.

As to the second question, yes, the La Fayette’s owned a number of animals but we have to differentiate here. After his release from prison and return to France, La Fayette started farming at La Grange. From Jules Germain Cloquet’s book we know that during the height of the farm, La Fayette owned 1000 – 1200 sheep, 30 – 40 cows and 100 – 150 pigs. Cloquet described the animal population of La Grange in great detail. How they came to the farm, how they were housed, how they were feed, how they smelled (the pigs emitted no “disagreeable smell”) and what not.

La Fayette also had a little ménagerie at La Grange for more exotic animals that he was gifted. Cloquet wrote:

One is a grated enclosure, a sort of ménagerie, in which Lafayette kept such foreign animals as were sent to him. After his return to France, he had received, from Governor Clarke, a young gray bear from the Missouri territory. Ever animated with the desire of being useful to his fellow-citizens, he refused to keep so rare an animal at Lagrange, and made a present of it to the professors of the Museum of Natural History, to be placed in their ménagerie.

Jules Germain Cloquet, Recollections of the Private Life of General Lafayette, Baldwin and Cradock, London, 1835, p. 213.

As to more domestic animals, you already mentioned La Fayette’s little white dog. Cloquet wrote:

During his malady, Lafayette was very fond of a small white bitch, which he had received, I believe, from Madame de Bourck, and which never quitted him. The animal, which was gifted with a remarkable degree of instinct, permitted nobody, except Bastien, to approach her master’s clothes when he was in bed, expressed joy or sorrow according as he felt better or worse, and might have served as a thermometer to indicate the state of his health. Since the General’s death, she has followed Bastien to Lagrange, but has never resumed her gaiety.

Jules Germain Cloquet, Recollections of the Private Life of General Lafayette, Baldwin and Cradock, London, 1835, p. 274.

La Fayette most likely owned more dogs during his lifetime, but I have neither numbers nor names for you. He was, however, quite knowledgeable about the different breeds and sometimes got his hands on dogs that his friends in America wanted to purchase. He was also a lover of horses and while he owned several horses during his lifetime, one is especially famous: Jean Le Blac – I wrote about him in a post on here but thanks to tumblr’s *exceptional* search-engine I can not even find my own post.

Thomas Jefferson- excellent in reading comprehension; can write informal letters; but inconfident to communicate on diplomatic occasions

James Madison- learnt it as a "dead language"; can't do oral communication; pronounces with strong Scottish accent

John Adams- learnt it with much ambition and strict standard. but hasn't started until he was in France

Benjamin Franklin- can communicate fluently but with tons of grammar mistakes and pronouciation inaccuracies

Benjamin Rush- is a master. perfect even to John Adams's standard

Alexander Hamilton- speaks fluently

George Washington- can't say a word but he has bought many books and dictionaries (guess he wished to learn but never got started lol)

James Monroe- said to be fluent. He practiced with Jefferson's chef and needs not a translator when he was ambassador to France. so at least he's confident

John Marshall- can only use some simple sentences but still full of mistakes

 - To George Washington from John Laurens, 11 April 1781

I must trouble Your Excellency to present my Respects to Mrs Washington—my love to the Marquis de la fayette Col. Hamilton and the rest of the family.

I was drawing mbti style Napoleon for my gf because of Valentine's Day

"Mon Général~"