- main fandoms are the camp half blood chronicles (mainly frank zhang/revived trio/generally hoo content) and i saw the tv glow. i have others but i mostly post whatever i am obsessed with at the moment (currently: deltarune, dead boy detectives, i was born for this)
- my username is something similar to this on most social media (ask for specifics)
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This is probably a sensitive topic to ask, but why is there such a huge discord on the mythology fandom about the skin color of the gods and of certain mythological characters? This is related to Lupita's casting as Helen of Troy in the upcoming Nolan movie
hi anon i see you've selected the can of worms special today
tl;dr because people are really invested in greek mythology depicted according to their worldview of either 1) ancient greece as the foundation of the West and Whiteness 2) ancient greece being greek cultural heritage and thus exclusively for and by modern greeks 3) people's own ideas of historical accuracy and to what extent historical accuracy is moral because of its truth value and 4) the only moral way of adapting historical/historically Westernized literature is doing it with as little regard for historical ethnicity as possible. -> this way is never actually that unbiased. characters have characteristics that can be racially coded and stories often have racial themes because it's a huge part of history.
the main issue of the discourse revolves around a preference for creative casting and "authentic" casting, "authentic" here being in quotation marks because this is moreso about affective historicity (what feels historically authentic) than historical accuracy. This is also known as the Tiffany effect: a name that sounds hella out of place before the 20th century, but actually was recorded as a nickname for Theophania in old timey england.
So Nolan has opted for creative casting, not necessarily in tune with the actual diversity of the ancient mediterranean-which buries the opportunity for actually highlighting the complexity of the ancient Levant and the many different peoples interacting in that place and time, in history or literature/myth. The ethiopians are actually mentioned in Homer! Egyptians and Phoenicians too! Many heroes can even be said to descend from these as well (Europa was Phoenician, making the knossian and theban dynasties phoenician, Andromeda either phoenician or ethiopian, making the line of perseus half-that, Danaus was Libyan and married his daughter(s) to egyptian princes, hippolyta was a western asian amazon, etc. etc. etc.). greek mythology is actually wildly interested in its neighbours, distant lands, and other peoples! Not in a good way necessarily! but that's where modern adaptations can creatively dismiss their bigoted bs!
But instead of tuning into the diversity of the ancient world, 'creative casting' presents ancient ethnicity as irrelevant, necessarily cheapening the worldbuilding in favour of the actor's abilities. This is, in my opinion, of less value when it's an exclusively A-list cast selected for star power where the majority is still anglo-saxon af. It's an easy excuse for filmmakers to hide behind, and can be really dicey when the story being adapted actually has racial themes. This is the case, imo, with the new Wuthering Heights, where it makes no sense casting an east asian actor for the role of 'epitome of British noble imperialist chauvinism' and casting a white actor for the racially coded scapegoat Other protagonist. creative casting has its limits, and one of those limits is the very real history of racial oppression.
the authentic casting camp tends to split into two sides, where one is protesting creative casting for accuracy's sake and the other because they're white fucking supremacists and greek nationalists who believe no one in ancient Greek ever saw or was an african let alone a sub-saharan african. Which is dumb as hell. the ancient world was centred around the Mediterranean sea, ALL COASTS, not Europe. there was arguably more interaction between ethiopia and india and greece than there ever was between germany and greece. This makes arguing for authentic casting a veritable minefield, because in no time you'll have people yelling that all the actors should be white or that is is a moral imperative that all the actor were born in greece and born greek. don't let this fool you: it's about a white claim to the literary material, just a specific type of whiteness.
Nevertheless, i tend to be sympathetic of people criticizing creative casting choices for accuracy's sake (NOT the white-only bs!!!!), based on the fact that in the entire cast (and this is very often the case) none of the actors are greek, mediterranean, or middle eastern. the cast of Nolan's Odyssey is very much america's idea of diversity- meaning all white people in the cast are piggy white and the others, who make up only half or less of the main cast, are mostly black with some other ethnicities represented by single actors. This reminds me of the series Troy: Fall of A City, which took the same approach, but where imo it was very telling which characters ended up being white and which didn't. I found it telling there that Zeus and Achilles, neither a main character and both depicted as (physically) powerful and overbearing characters, were black actors, and wrathful goddesses in the story such as Athena and Artemis were black, but Aphrodite, the main deity in the adaptation, protector of the protagonists helen and paris and goddess of beauty, was an ivory-skinned ginger woman. There's racial coding involved that cannot be ignored.
Mythology, though, is a more fantastical literary world and not the real Ancient Greece at any point in time which people clamoring for a bronze age depiction of Homeric epic tend to neglect. i.e. I think creative casting makes more sense in a Homeric epic than in an adaptation of the Persian wars. Even though Greek mythology is still incredibly tied to the land (literally, via aetiology: a myth happened in a specific place which had a religious effect on the place), there is wiggle room. I'm mostly just frustrated that this never seems to be used with much intent or thought behind it. I see the subversiveness of casting Lupita as the most beautiful woman in the world (a role that suits her!!) but i find it telling that it is not penelope, for example, who is the main love interest and not a side character. creative casting is dope but i rarely see it done in a way that doesn't still create narrative/meta tension.
to conclude: the discourse arises from whether people find creative casting or authentic casting more politically correct, and to what extent it is fair to bend accuracy for inclusivity. i'm no huge fan of any of the approaches hollywood tends to take, because they either present an american-centric idea of diversity or go for an all (anglo) white cast, which buries the diversity of the ancient world either way and never lets people out of the binary of historical white vs. modern multicultural.
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trying to understand whether my friend said an outrageous lie about why she cancelled our outing to the cinema (said her mom was acting up, actually she just wanted to go with somebody else even though SHE asked me to go) or if she said the truth and just pirated the film.
Edit: the title for this comic is “Puzzle Rat”
this one’s a few days late due to having a lot of doctors appointments sorry
it’s just 9 pages, and about some rats… it’s more symbolic than anything really
(it’s completely unrelated to any of my songs that have to do with “puzzleboy”)
Patreon: www.patreon.com/PengoSolvent
Anya is live and ready to show you everything. Watch her strip, dance, and perform exclusive shows just for you. Interact in real-time and make your fantasies come true.
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Free to watch • No registration required • HD streaming
Anya is live and ready to show you everything. Watch her strip, dance, and perform exclusive shows just for you. Interact in real-time and make your fantasies come true.
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