There have been some arguments that Jaehaerys should have named Rhaenys as his heir instead of Baelon after Aemons death and the only reason he didn’t was due to personal misogyny. But there have also been counter arguments that Jaehaerys was just being a realist at the time thinking that Westeros would not accept a ruling Queen and that if he named Rhaenys it would have just caused the Dance to happen earlier. What do you think?
Both can be broadly true. I think both are broadly true. It's a fact of Westeros that the society was and is deeply misogynistic. A female ruler would face questioning of her rule that a male ruler wouldn't. The baseline difficulty for a female ruler is higher. Yes.
And it's also apparent that Jaehaerys had a strong misogynistic streak that showed most distressingly in his treatment of his daughters. I don't think we can separate that misogyny out from his decision to pass over Rhaenys.
However, nobody in universe or out could say with certainty whether naming Rhaenys heir to the throne would have caused an earlier version of the Dance or similar. There are more factors that go into rebellions and civil wars than just one ruler - it also depends on how opposition develops and a range of external factors. In Westeros this would include the random changing of seasons, any natural disasters (fire, flood, drought, plague, etc), perhaps even more external issues like the extremely misogynistic Iron Islands doing their thing or opportunistic interference from the Free Cities. Sometimes people come to the throne in good times (Robert's ten-year summer) and other times the ruler's given a shit sandwich (Aegon III).
But at the end of the day? Whether Jaehaerys' misogyny or prevailing misogyny, it's all still misogyny to assume a woman couldn't deal with the challenges of ruling.
I personally think Viserys would be less likely to start a rebellion against Rhaenys. He simply lacked the circle of supporters Aegon had. Meanwhile, Rhaenys was not as stupid as Rhaenyra. And Corlys Velaryon was no Daemon.
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If Bran makes it back to Winterfell and survives the series, do you think the Northern lords would accept him as the Lord of Winterfell and/or King in the North? I personally think that would be an interesting direction for Bran as a character, but Westeros has pretty awful treatment of disabled characters and I'm wondering if some factions could claim that Bran's disability was a reason to pass him over for one of the other Starklings - e.g. Jon (explicitly named in Robb's will as his heir, already of-age by Westerosi standards and able to provide immediate leadership), Rickon (much younger and easier to control), even Sansa or Arya (on the expectation that they marry and produce male heirs).
Yes, I think Bran will be acceptable, despite his disability! He's Ned's oldest surviving legitimate son. We know that the rules are flexible, but they're also pretty clear about what's supposed to happen when there's a legitimate son around to inherit.
More practically, I think Bran's likely to return to Winterfell last. When the disputes about whether Jon (oldest surviving son) or Sansa (oldest surviving legitimate child) should inherit are in full swing or ramping up considerably. Bran then arrives as a candidate both of these factions can support without losing face. With those parties having supported Bran despite the fact he had a disability at the time, it's way harder five years down the track to go "I just realised! Bran's paraplegic! We can't have that!"
Also important is the fact that ableism isn't a universal constant but can manifest in very different ways depending on what the disability is and how someone came to have that disability. People who acquire disability in later childhood or adulthood may be treated differently from people who were born with them or acquired them very early in life. With Bran, there may eventually be questions about his ability to father children, questions about how he handles more martial endeavours, and I would put money on any such questions being either motivated by ableism or expressed in ableist ways, but there are plenty of people who can attest to Bran not being a "twisted monkey demon" like Tyrion or "feeble-minded" like Hodor, but a bright, active kid who had a bad accident.* Still pitiable on some level, but not, y'know, stupid disabled or evil disabled.
If this promotion ends up happening, Bran might be well served by big impressive chairs, big impressive horses, and a FDR-esque routine of not allowing many people to see the mechanics required to get him into a position where he looks physically imposing. Pay no attention to the carers behind the curtain. Which is just what happens when society is Like That about ableism and masculinity.
There's one small problem I see here. I'm pretty sure Bran is incapable of having sex. After all, he's paralyzed from the waist down. That means no children. Are the Lords going to accept a ruler who can't have kids?
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I've often seen people say that s2 of HOTD was boring because it was slow, because "nothing happened", because there were only a handful of scenes worth remembering.
And yes, season 2 was slow. Painfully slow at times. But I don't think boredom was the actual problem.
The boredom was the symptom.
The retcon was the cause.
Season 2 wasn't just empty. It was doing something. It was quietly rewriting season 1.
Those slow scenes were not used to deepen the characters. They were used to change the meaning of things we had already seen. To soften some characters, absolve others, shift blame, remove agency, and prepare the audience for a completely different version of the story.
And to be fair, the first signs of this rewrite were already there at the end of S1.
Alicent's sudden change did not begin in S2. The misunderstanding of Viserys' last words was already a retcon in itself.
Season 1 had already given Alicent clear political and personal reasons to support Aegon's claim. She told him "You are the challenge". She warned him that Rhaenyra could move to cut off any challenge to her succession. She told him his life, and Aemond's, could be forfeit. She rejected the Helaena/Jacaerys marriage proposal with "You may do as you wish, husband… when I am cold in my grave".
Alicent did not need a misunderstood prophecy to believe Aegon had to be crowned.
The show had already shown us her fear, her resentment, her political convictions, her hostility toward Rhaenyra's sons, and the way she raised her children inside the belief that Rhaenyra's claim was a threat to their lives.
So making Viserys' dying words the decisive reason why Alicent supports Aegon's coronation was already a way of softening her agency.
It changed the conflict from:
Alicent is afraid, resentful, political, complicit, and actively protecting her children through the same brutal system that trapped her.
to:
Alicent misunderstood something. Poor her.
And then the Small Council scene pushes it even further. Alicent acts shocked that the same council she had been sitting on for years already had plans in place, as if the political conflict she herself had helped nurture had somehow developed without her.
That was the beginning of the rewrite.
Season 2 simply committed to it completely.
Suddenly the story wants us to believe Alicent had no real part in any of it. She misunderstood. She was used. She did not know. She wanted peace. The men around her made everything happen.
But we saw season 1.
We heard what she said.
This is not character development. This is revision.
And now, watching S3, it becomes painfully obvious that S2 was planting the seeds for this. Not for a faithful adaptation of the Dance of the Dragons, and not even for a coherent continuation of the show's own first season, but for a total rewrite of what season 1 had already established.
The same thing happens with the broader framing of the Dance.
The show keeps trying to turn the conflict into "women who want peace versus men who want war", even when its own first season gave those women political agency, ambition, fear, resentment, and responsibility.
That is not feminism. That is moral laundering.
Women in ASOIAF can be victims of the system and still participate in it. They can be oppressed and still cruel. They can be frightened and still ambitious. They can love their children and still damage them. They can be sympathetic without being innocent.
But HOTD seems increasingly terrified of letting its female leads be truly responsible for anything ugly.
So instead, the ugly parts get moved elsewhere.
Alicent's political convictions are stripped from her. Her resentment is softened. Her role in pushing Aegon toward the throne is minimized. Her hostility toward Rhaenyra's sons is treated like something the show would rather forget.
And when someone has to say the harsh things, when someone has to speak the uncomfortable truths, those lines are handed to someone else.
Usually a man.
That is why season 2 felt so hollow to me.
It was not just slow television. It was slow erasure.
It was the show asking us, scene after scene, to forget what it had already shown us.
And now season 3 is simply continuing that work.
We are not watching the consequences of season 1. We are watching the consequences of season 2 trying to pretend season 1 meant something else.
So no, season 2 was not a flop just because it was boring.
It was boring because so much of it existed to retcon the story.
And the worst part is that, somehow, we let them get away with calling that "character development".
I would add the show is trying to avoid taking the Green claim seriously. In the show there was no misunderstanding of Viserys' wishes. The Greens said: "Screw Viserys. The law is the law."
It doesn't address the moral dilemmas:
1. The law is sexist. But is it okay to start a bloody war because of that?
2. Bastardphobia is wrong. Is it worth war to make Jace the heir?
Unlike Aegon, Rhaenyra, like Rhaenys, could have bent the knee. Jace and Luke would still be alive. Was it worth it?
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First day on the job and I’m getting my long awaited vengeance against my father’s evil vizier but it turns out no one else knows how to do his job so I need to at least hire an accountant because I’m too rich to understand the concept of a budget, but we scared off the city’s comptroller who hid all our liquid assets and told only the master of laws, who we beheaded without checking on that and a rat crawls up my pant leg. So I try to at least call over some pest control but my stupid chud brother already killed all of them because they killed his son because our other brother killed MY son. So now we’re overrun by rats and I pivot to taking some petitions and this lady that looks strangely like my siblings’ mom (why?) tells me we’re out of food because of the blockade I put in place. So I ask my husband’s ex, who is on my cabinet because I’m kind of fucking her because of my complex about not being my father’s son, and she asks what my dad would do. So I do what my dad would do and ask a sad woman I’ve locked in my house, but she’s mad at me because I killed her dad. So I try to handle both the rat and the budget problem by making my entire merchant class eat the rats and sending my corrupt police force to rob their houses and now all my merchants are both pissed off and absolutely going to tell everyone the blockade was my fault. So I ask MY evil vizier what I should do but he’s mad at me because I won’t legitimize his peasant sons, one of which has one of my nukes and I just publicly humiliated twice. So I leave to consider if I should kill my littlest brother to relieve some stress, except another one of my fathers’ evil viziers’ evil fruit relatives tricked me and this isn’t any of my brothers. So I walk away with no one for protection except the chief of the aforementioned police force who I just encouraged to seize the property of nobles and we get stopped by one of my other nuke holding peasants who asks why he hasn’t gotten a paycheck in 4 months, and I tell him I’m broke as shit in front of the aforementioned corrupt police chief, who is also on the payroll that I don’t have. So I give up and circle back to my vice president and he thinks for a few minutes and then asks if I’ve tried bombing Iran
the other day in the groupchat we were talking about how historical fiction will often try to code aristocrat characters as more sympathetic by only having them have a single servant instead of a whole household of staff but instead this just makes them look like an exploitative employer who’s so cheap he would rather pile impossible amounts of labor upon a single guy than hire enough help to actually run his house
Suppose Laenor Velaryon is chosen heir to Jahaerys instead of Viserys…does this butterfly away the Dance as we know it? Who would be the leading contender for his queen?
I'd argue that the Dance still happens. ~95% of the attendees voted for Viserys at the Great Council. Naming Laenor means royally pissing off the nobles who supported Viserys's claim. I doubt Laenor lives to even get married in that scenario.
I don't think that is necessarily a disqualifier. Plenty of monarchs who preferred homosexual relationships knew that dynastic succession was the underpinning of their feudal power and brought forth heirs to fulfill that.
Suppose Laenor Velaryon is chosen heir to Jahaerys instead of Viserys…does this butterfly away the Dance as we know it? Who would be the leading contender for his queen?
I'd argue that the Dance still happens. ~95% of the attendees voted for Viserys at the Great Council. Naming Laenor means royally pissing off the nobles who supported Viserys's claim. I doubt Laenor lives to even get married in that scenario.
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one of the funniest conversations I ever had with my ex was when they were still getting used to Celsius and asked me "what's 20 degrees?" and instead of converting it, I said "it's the highest your dad will ever let you set the thermostat and when you say you're cold he tells you to put on another sweater, we're not made of money" and they went "oh, 68"
the fact that this reference was that fucking precise was something they went on to tell people about for years.
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