#tikva wolfe

polyAM Radio Episode Ten-Polyamorous Parenting with Tikva Wolf

[Begin Transcript]

[Sophie]: Hello everybody and welcome to polyam radio the best show on the internet about polyamory that weird relationship thing you do with lots of other people

["Crazy little thing called love" by Queen plays]

[Sophie]: hello everybody welcome to polyamradio my name is Sophie Last-Name-Redacted and I'm here with a very special guest this week why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself

[Tikva]: Hi I'm Tikva Wolf

[Sophie]: I use she her pronouns

[Tikva]: I use they them pronouns

[Sophie]: cool cool I gotta tell ya I am totally geeking out over here because uhh Tikva is one of my absolute all time favorite like polyamory heroes pretty much everything I know about polyamory that doesn't come from my own ya know personal foolish mistakes comes from Tikva's comic Kimchi Cuddles, I do wanna let listeners know that this is the second time that we've tried to record and just this morning my computer totally puked on me uhh so I am working with a spare that I rented from the library and uhh we're doing the best we can but all of my show notes all of my everything is gone so we're gonna make the best of a bad situation and kinda plow through this but that's what we've got going on over here so if it seems like maybe things are a little different this tim uhh that's whats up, so I'm guessing though that despite some potential sound quality problems that this is gonna be our best episode yet because we've got Tikva with us

[Tikva]: yay, yeah hopefully the technology will cooperate with us this time, if not we'll just have [uninteligable] conversation [laughs] [uninteligable] [laughs]

[Sophie]: yeah you caught me there's no podcast  this was a trojan horse I just wanna talk to you and be your friend

[Tikva]: aww [laughs] again, this happens to me all the time [laughs]

[Sophie]: ya know somehow I believe that so our topic this week is gonna be polyamourus parenting but before we get started, Tikva why don't you tell everybody a little bit about yourself because ya know not everyone has internet stalked you like I have so uhh ya know they may not know every little detail or certainly they may not know anything about you and that would be a real shame so uh why don't you give us a little exposition ya know

[Tikva]: well I write a webcomic about polyamory which I really is just about relationships and my relationships happen to be in a polyamourus container umm I so I write largely just about my own life experiences and umm uhh people seem to think that it's relateable uhh I think that uhh the the medium of uhh comics is a good umm way to convey ideas and experiences because they happen in such a small little uhh snippet so there really easy to digest and it's really easy to convey uhh uhh an experience or umm like a complex idea in a way that is umm yeah just easier to digest

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely I think you're spot on ya know uhh I think comics are a really effective way of conveying a kind of slice of life ya know we always think about umm ya know maybe books and movies and other kinds of media but certainly even podcasts I mean it's hard to crank out good media on a reliable basis I mean I'm doing a podcast ya know one podcast for every ya know shove out an episode every other week I mean and you're cranking out what ya know two or three comics a week I mean that's

[Tikva]: well when I first started I umm I didn't think anybody would read it but I just started putting I always made comics about my relationships and I had a partner who uhh said you should write a you should write a webcomic about polyamory and I just started putting them online as a joke between us but umm and then all of the sudden all of these people were reading it but when I first started putting them up I had a bunch of them so I was just putting up like two of them a day so very quickly I had a lot of content in like the span of a couple weeks and then I calmed down and then I started making like I think for a while though I was making like one a day umm for quite some time and then uhh it went down to like umm like like two or three a week and recently I've been like writing a bunch of other things so it's been more like one a week umm yeah I've been working on a lot of articles and graphic novels recently umm so that's been taking up a large chunck of my time umm and it's it's amazing to me like remembering when I first started I was like I was a young mom [laughs] and, so I had a baby that I was watching all the time and I was also, ummm, I was also an art teacher at a camp so I was like doing that uhh part time but I so I was like writing these comics, like, at like two in the morning in the bathroom [laughs] it was just like a time that I had to do that umm which is why they look so shitty like go back and look at the original ones it's hilarious to me cause I'm like woah look at this but umm but yeah people like them [laughs] so I kept going, I'm still doing it

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely ya know  you really have your finger on the pulse of what it feels like to be ya know in a  polyamorous relationship and your comics uhh show showcase that very well ya know I remember a few weeks ago there was one that really spoke to me and it was uhh oh ya know my partner has this new partner I have a new metamour, I actually talked about this on the show, listeners might remember, but this new partner they're so or this new metamour they're so fancy and they're so put together ohh boy is that what they like is, oh man cause I'm just kind of a slob and ya know I'm ya know I'm pretty bad at putting myself together and getting all dolled up and everthing and uhh actually umm I'm going to try to do that later on today because today the day we're recording this listeners is actually my birthday so we're gonna try to go out later and ya know have a bit of a fancy nice evening

[Tikva]: it's your birthday

[Sophie]: yeah today's my birthday

[Tikva]: well happy birthday

[Sophie]: well thank you

[Tikva]: next monday is my birthday

[Sophie]: oh well happy birthday

[Tikva]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: I'm guessing that in a few months when this comes out we're both gonna get a lot of belated birthday wishes uh uh yeah I just I just really wanted to say again I really think you have your finger on the pule of what it's like to be in a polyamorous relationship ya know I don't think I've ever looked at one of your comics and gone oh that doesn't really resonate with me, even when it's dipicting situations that I've never been in  uh it ya know it's really just incredible how it, uhh, how universal some of these feelings and experiences are

[Tikva]: thank you yeah it's I think its interesting that it cause I think of the comic as primarily as being about non-monogamy but a lot of people that follow it regularly are monogamous people who feel like it's helpful for them to and have uhh has uhh situations that are applicable to their relationships as well

[Sophie]: yeah ya know well we always talk about on this show that ya know this show is explicitly polamourous and it's very important to me that everything we talk about is through the lens of polyamory because frankly there's more than enough people out there giving relationship advice to monogamous people and with a monogamous perspective ya know stuff like oh well you'll find the one and everything like that uhh but ya know uhh I don't think that there's ever has been or probably ever will be even a single episode that won't have some good little nugget in there that a monogamous person could ya know take away and use and apply to their life right I always say that I think that ya know this advice is applicable to everyone ya know good advice is good advice and certainly  not ya know all of it is applicable ya know things about ya know how do I interact with my metamor maybe aren't all that ya know uhh applicable but ya know uhh this show is explicitly queer too uhh just like your comic and I don't think that there's anything or I should say that I think that there are very few things in here that would not also benefit a straight person and I guess ya know another thing I wanna bring up is that ya know your comic is so intensly queer

[Tikva]: [uninteligable] queer [laughs] yeah I'm pretty intensly queer that makes sense

[Sophie]: well ya know a lot of the media we get is far from perfect and a lot of the queer representation that we get is uhh ya know really problematic and just uhh not the best and ya know this is something that's made by and for queer people and I think it's something that's really special, so Tikva let me ask you umm when you started out ya know you're a parent and you're polamourous and when you started out as a parent were you intending on ya know raising your child by yourself were you intending on uhh working with somebody else ya know as part of like a two person team or were you always planning on having a small polycule kind of ya know helping raise this child ya know how did that start out because I think for a lot of people umm ya know they have a child and then find themselves engaging in polyamory and everything and most of the time I think people don't really find themselves starting off of saying okay yes I'm going to have this kid and I have a team that's working with me ya know for this and we're all going to raise this kid as a polamourous situation together, I think that that's pretty uncommon so if I can ask, how did it start out for you, were people starting off involved with it or did you kinda rope people in as time went on because not that there's anything wrong with it but I think a lot of people find themselves getting roped into a family and that's ya know their introcution to it

[Tikva]: right yeah [uninteligable] that'll happen a lot even in just monogamous relationships because of step parents and things like that um which is actually how I started out as a parent I am a step parent umm that my uhh the person who I was romantically partnered with at the time and who is my co-parent and umm uhh and uhh one of the main characters of my comic umm he had a when I met him he had a son who was about eight from a previous maraige and umm that kid is super awesome he is not a kid anymore he is in college now umm but so I started out being a step parent and having all of those types of experiences sort of like umm I mean very similar to what a lot of people in monogamous relationships would have experienced being a step parent umm and I just happen to be polyamorous and we actually when we started our relationship I was openly polamourous and he identified as monogamous umm but we tried to find a balance inbetween those things so we sort of at first I was in other relationships and then we took a time period where when I wasn't in any other relationships at the time we took a few years where it was just us when I got pregnant myself umm because that was what seemed like it made sense at the time and umm then eventually the two of us just happened to get into a relationship with another couple who were polyamorous we all just sort of fell in love with each other so that we were just all of the sudden this quad and they loved our child we just sort of fell in this very sweet co-parenting situation where there were four adults to one baby she was about maybe one or two I think two when we met them umm we're not all together anymore actually not with any of those people anymore in a romantic context but umm what he he my original co-parent obviously still my co-parent and a very important person in my life umm and he ended up uhh feeling like being, romantically monogamous was important enough to him that he wanted to do that umm not with me, because it's something that is important to me to be not doing, umm so we we ended up finding that our relationship works better, at least for right now with the romantic elements, not there, and which is like worked out surprisingly well we sort of think like our, society sort of tells us that uhh the romantic part of the relationship is neccecary for you to be emotionally connected and like if the romantic part isnt there the sexual part isn't there then like its there's a problem or like theres a, like you're supposed to be mad at each other and all these things and I, don't think that that's true

[Sophie]: ya know, uhh, when we talk about polyamory and relationship anarchy and things like that it's important to remember that aside from being a gift, and a bottomless resource love is also infinitely varied and takes many forms some of these forms are platonic and we tend to call these people friends and everything   uuhh some of them are romantic and we have other words for that but I think the term friend for some of the relationships that I have it's not the right word and I wish we had a better one uhh because the feeling I lo- the feeling of love I have for some of my ya know quote unquote friends is so intense ya know I would go to the ends of the earth for some of these people uhh even farther perhaps than some of my casual partners which feels weird to say but the reality is is that these people are your family, ya know that's who you've chosen to build your life around uhh and that's ya know a wonderful beautiful thing ya know and that doesn't mean just because a relationship is no longer romantic doesn't mean that uh a failure by any means ya know

[Tikva]: yeah

[Sophie]: we talked about breakups in a previous episode and uh ya know in those situations where  a relationship ends that doesn't nececarily mean it was a failure and just because a relationship continues that doesn't mean it is a success there are a lot of relationships that continue uhh pretty much ad nauseum [laughs] and are in no way succeses at all and ya know I think that that's very important to remember uhh ya know there's a whole lot more to a relationship than it just continuing forever, so let me as you ya know uhh if someone's thinking about becoming a polyamorous parent or inviting someone into uh to help them parent and and kind of starting to have that kind fo polycule parenting structure or thinking of joining one themselves is thre any advice that ya know you'd want uhh that you'd want to give to them when they're just starting out

[Tikva]: mmmm, well I guess that there's so many variables I don't think that there's like one particular thing that would be like universally helpful but I think I keep telling people, cause I run a a polamourous uhh meet up group in the ashville area and umm there are a lot of parents in the group who want uhh resources about umm about polyamorous parenting and umm sort of like how do I, x, y, z, and a lot of the specific things that they bring up in the group are not actually neccecarily polyamorous questions they're more like they're more things that are about step parenting and things like that like combining families like kids who come from different parents like those kids getting along or not getting a long and things like that and combining households and sharing resources those types of questions and like and I think that there are I mean there are a lot of resources that exist that are not written for us but it doesn't matter [laughs] they're for there are a lot of resources out there for step parents and for for people who are combining families like in in a monogamous way but ya know like bringing in kids from another partner and things like that and so becdause there are a lot of reosurces that already exist for step parents umm I feel like we can just use those resources that already exist and take out the things that apply to us and our families and it doesn't matter that they're written for monogamous people because it's really just a lot of it is the same stuff concerning kids and like bringing in kids from other families and  having, being a parent to a kid that is not from your body like these sorts of things like the same sorts of things can come up in a monogamous or non monogamous relationship so using the resources that alreday exist I think is a good idea and also there are new things coming out all the time umm I think doctor sheff, is a good resources doctor elizabeth sheff has done a lot of research into polamourous families and has written a few books on that topic umm

[Sophie]: is that chef like yes chef cut the vegetable chef or-

[Tikva]: of uh it's spelt s-h-e-f-f

[Sophie]: [laughs] okay cool yeah no I just thought our listeners might wanna be ablso to google that  

[Tikva]: yeah look up doctor sheff she's done a lot of writing on polyamorous families based on reserach that she's done umm that spans decades so it's good stuff umm she wrote a book the polamorists next door which is helpful also I think just like one of the main things that can really help people who have any sort of difficutly just like having other people to talk to about it and umm so like being a part of a like a poly meet up group and maybe even if like maybe in your area if there's a poly meet up group and there isn't already a family specific subgroup you can start one, like anounce to the group like hey I'm a polyamorous family I want to hang out with other families maybe we could have like play dates or like um maybe we just hang out and talk about uhh like sort of form a support group around a specific topic can be very helpful

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely so the next question has to do with stigma uhh ya know families like ours and relationsips like those that we engage in aren't always the most widely accepted I guess I'm just wondering ya know for you how has ya know polyamorous stigma played a role in ya know your ability to have a family and make it feel like a cohesive unit and ya know feel like uhh ya know feel like you belong within a larger society

[Tikva]: umm I think it varies family to family especially depending on what where they live and who they're surrounded by what they're life looks like, I have been very lucky in my life to be in a part of the country that like is pretty open minded and surrounded by people who are also open minded my family is very open minded so I haven't had a lot of difficutly myself I'm very luck in that way, there was one incident in which a neighbor uhh like found out that I wrote a webcomic about polyamory and was very concerned and like called social services on us to like get to be investigated to see if any shady shenaigans were going on such as sex duneons in front of  children and stuff like that which was obviously not [laughs] what was happening and like someone came to the house to interview us about that which was stressful and just because of the I guess it's not neccecarily a inherently stressful situation but it's pretty understandable that that would be stressful like social services suddenly showing up all things considered it wasn't as stressful as as it sounds [laughs] because umm the woman who showed up was very nice and she was very understanding and she and I was like woah this is so bizzare and umm she was like so you write this webcomic about polyamory I was like yes lets- I'll show you the one I wrote today it was like something about  like my character Marco like [laughs] telling like saying something about like how it's okay to have the emotional experience that you're having she was like oh this sounds very grounded and good advice sounds like you're a great parent actually here I'm wasting your [uninteligable] [laughs] kind of like, it was funny because it was so bizzare and I didn't feel like I was in danger of losing my child or anything like that so like that part wasn't frightening but it was irritating that it was wasting this person's time and like this person who should be doing important work for other families that actually need the help was being wasted on this situation and becdause of beuracracy she had to come back a couple of times or at least twice something like that happened

[Sophie]: well and it's invasive

[Tikva]: sure yeah

[Sophie]: sounds like the neighbor was a real asshole

[Tikva]: yeah [laughs] I mean this person was like, uniformed because of stigma this person like heard the word polyamorous assumed that it meant umm like sexually uhh something some dramatic thing about sex and which it is also some people are have a lot of sex and that's fine but I'm not really [laughs] it was so funny like at the time my child was younger umm she's almost eight now she was like three at the time when this happened three or four or something like that and umm [laughs] it was like it uhh a moment in time where I the social worker was asking questions about sex she had all these questions about sex like you have sex uhh like uhh do you have orgies in front of children and those types of things and I'm like no like I'm at a place in my life where I just don't even have sex [laughs] like I'm a young mom like I just

[Sophie]: yeah if you're a young parent you're pretty much not having sex that's pretty much the end of it

[Tikva]: [uninteligable] like seriously like how many young parents like really have a lot of sex like I don't have time to have sex and [laughs] I, and and there's certainly nothing wrong with parents who do have lots of sex and do go to sex duneons and things as long as it's not in front of the kids but it was such a bizzare experience cause I like wasn't even having very much sex and like these questions it was just like it was very surreal and umm and funny but um but yeah so there's certainly a stigma around being polyamorous linking it to sexual deviance which in our culture which is so puritan still and afraid of sex can be problematic because then people make moral judgements about you based on sex which is like awkward if you are a person having a lot of sex or it's awkward if you're just aperosn having average amounts of sex and it's for me in times when I it was especially aggrivating to me when I felt people would say thin- like make little comments make little jokes about something along the lines of like like not neccecarily slut shaming but like something on that spectrum those types of jokes about being polyamorous at me [laughs] and my response internally would be like I'm probably having less sex than you monogamous person and just like have that response like I just always thought that was funny and it's something that still happens with people that i know like friends of mine people still make umm just uniformed little jokes cause they don't actually really understand yeah it's certainly annoying that there's such a stigma aroung sex in our culture umm in a way that like makes it weird if you're having too much or not enough sex ya know accoring to whatever, whoever's keeping track [laughs] there's a- people like think there's something wrong with you if you're having more or less than whatever is the appropriate average and like and the label polyamorous umm like certainly gives people like an assumtion a lot of the time about where you are on that which can be awkward for people who do have a lot of sex too because umm because there's this stigma so people I think it seems like a lot of polyamorous feel a pressure to like make themselves seem quote unquote normal when they talk about their relationships and like emphasize oh it's all about love and all this even though that's true umm I feel like there's this pressure to talk about it that way and sort of minimize the sexual component too which is also not good and like really whatever is nourishing for people in their relationships should just be fine and it's not anybody else's business

[Sophie]: ya know and I think it's very interesting when we're talking about it from our perspective because we're not just polyamorous, we're queer and certainly not all queer people are polyamorous but a lot of polyamorous people are queer and uhh ya know there is an aspect of added stigma there ya know we really are only what five years if that ya know from people having very public very heated and uhh kind of horrible conversations about whether or not any queer person is fit to be a parent at all ya know and ya know now it's getting to be more taboo to say that but ya know certainly we are not far removed from that so I think it's not at all surprising when we talk about the struggles that polyamorous people go through and when we talk about polyamorous queer people ya know people who are part of both of those groups are gonna face some added stigma and it's unfortunate but it is what we're dealing with right now so moving back into our main topic ya know I love where the tangent when but as someone who uhh sees myself helpfully going where you are in a few years ya know I just have so many questions ya know I uhh I'm not a polyamorous parent and I never have been like I said a minute ago I see myself going that direction but I'm not there now and so when I think of like benefits that come from it I can only really speculate and I guess some of them that come to mind for me ya know there's that old adage it takes a village to raise a child and the more positive adult role models you have as a child I think the better off you are and then of course if you are struggling with some sort of disability having kind of a team of people that are on your side  and are helping you out and everybody's pitching in ya know a little bit can make it a whole lot easier than kind of trying to do it on your own but in your experience ya know aside from maybe those things uhh exactly ya know in your experience what uhh ya know what are the real benefits to a polyamorous parenting situation

[Tikva]: umm well for me like when I was talking about before when I was co-parenting with my my uhh with my partner and then suddenly there were four of us uhh and my child at the time was two that was amazing because it was during a time where I was, being a young parent is or a parent of a young child is difficult it's a huge life transition and I was tired all the time and it's just constant constant attention is required and so having extra people around  or not extra but having more people around than just one othher person was extreemly helpful because not only did it relieve, it provided us with more time to be able to do other things like sit down [laughs] like pee by myself or hang out with my partner which is huge like you unless you like are in a position where you can you have like family helping you or you are able to get child care a lot of the time when you are raising a child with just one partner you don't really get to hang out with that partner ya know like it's which can be a big strain on the relationship and umm and like for like a lot of parents will just hang out when the kid is asleep but a lot of times when the kid is asleep you wanna be asleep so you just sort of there's a lot less time to connect to each other and it's important to have time away with each other and having three partners that are with people talk about umm like people who are imagining polyamory are like how do you have enough time to connect to theese people and it's funny like in that situation I felt like I had a lot more time to connect to all those people becdause the other people were there to be with the child sometimes and it felt like a really good windshield to have four adults to one child I was like oh because after two years of it being two adults to one child I was like oh this is like [laughs] four adults to one child seems like a really good ratio [laughs] and certainly things are different when there are multiple children and once children are old enough to start playing with each other it changes everything too umm I ended up later having a girlfriend who had a child who got a long with my child and that was a whole different awesome situation because I mean for obvious reasons like our children got a long with eachother so we could like hang out and have play dates for the kids which were also dates for us mom dates with each other, cause like otherwise a lot of time I had to like to go on a date with somebody I had to like arrange with my co-parent or like find child care somewhere or like my child was not yet in school at the time and so having a girlfriend who also had a kid who got along with my kid just made it so we could hang out and the kids were playing didn't need our attention constantly and so we could all hang in the same space and she and I were able to have a conversation and so that was really nice

[Sophie]: yeah and well I think ya know the more positive adult role models a kid has the better off they're going to be

[Tikva]: yeah for sure and also like a different examples of like different examples of how to be an adult I think is helpful to kids umm

[Sophie]: yeah ya know I think you're absolutely right uhh I saw this comic one time, I don't think it was one of yours it was ya know a guy at a bar talking to a girl and was like oh you're not like other girls ya know and she was like my dude I am an amalgamation of every girl I ever thought was cool okay and I think you can take that  and extend it to ya know adults in that case and I think that ya know saying listen I am an amalgamation of every adult I saw as a kid and went wow they are incredible ya know they are well adjusted whatever I wanna be like them and I think giving kids the greatest diverstity in who to pick from in who they want to be like and to chose their own role models is very important so uhh ya know on this show we try to  talk about both sides of the issue when it comes to polyamory and certainly ya know I'm very polyamours I love polyamory I think it's wonderful and certainly I think it's the best option for me personally but ya know sometimes there are some things about polyamourus situations that make them require a little more nuance and be a little more difficult to navigate when compared to a ya know monogamous situation so ya know are there any uhh kind of problems that in your mind fit that bill when we talk about polyamours parenting is ya know when we talk about poly or co-parenting is there any kind of extra things that you think come up that polyamorous people often have to deal with

[Tikva]: umm [laughs] the immidiate thing that came to mind was in regards to sharing holidays with like a standard monogamous family umm [laughs] I'm just thinking about one specific example so I'm just gonna say that so this upcoming valentines day I have a partner who had had an idea of planning this surprise thing to do together and then mentioned it to me like will you be able to come and do this   thing with me and he doesn't live in the same city as me so he had to make sure that I would be able to actually be in the same city for it to work before hand so he said hey I want to plan this surprise thing can you come on valentines day and do this thing with me and I was like oh that's really sweet but I had already had the idea that my co-parent would want to be with his partner umm on valentines day I know that like that's more important holiday to him than it really is to me [laughs] so I had already like offered to watch the child and uhh so and my first thought was oh can you bring your girlfriend to this thing that you had thought that you and I would do together and like all of that like I just I mean I guess this isn't really a problem but like for somebody else like I thought that wholel situation was very sweet like if everybody involved really cared about celebrating valentines day like if things didn't work out like if once person had to stay in town to be able to be with the child because the other person really wanted to leave town I can just imagine a scenario where that would be difficult I think I don't have a good answer [laughins] to that question, I'm not immidiately thinking of anything that is inherently a problem that's like poly-specific although it's like it's interesting I brought up doctor sheff's work earlier she did a lot of reserach into poly families umm case she was looking for like she had the assumtion that there would be poly-specific problems to poly families and her reserach pointed to uhh actually that like the opposite polyamorous tended to be more have a lot more strength because of and be more resilient because of there being more adults around to be able to do things and that all of the problems that those families had were problems that already were problems anyway like are problems that monogamous people have to like none of the problems were she didn't come accross and new problems that were poly-specific is my memory from her reserach and I thought that was very interesting

[Sophie]: huh, that's very interesting I'll have to pick up one of her books, so were runnin a little short on time here so I think I'm gonna have you plug your stuff now if there's anything that you'd like to plug

[Tikva]: well I have two books that are out right now the first one is ask me about polyamory which is a compoliation of the webcomic that I've been talking about the Kimchi Cuddles webcomic so the first book is ask me about polyamory and the second book is sort of remenicint of the webcomic but it's a different sort of storyline it's based on people from my actual life so it's that it has that in common but instead of being a series of little comics it's one whole story it's the whole book so it's a graphic novel called love retold it's a polyamours love story and I have a new book that's coming out this year which is not written yet [laughs] well it's not drawn yet I've wrote it but so all these books are through thron tree press and uhh the third one that's coming out is based on a class that I've been teaching when I go to poly conventions which is about theraputic comic drawing and people really like the class it's sort of like a going through process that I have done for myself of uhh processing through my emotions through the use of comic drawing and I sort of I wrote a book walking people through the process it was really fun to write and I'm going to have a lot of fun drawing it and I think it's going to be an amazing book when it's finished and that one is called it's okay feelings I got you

[Sophie]: well you know Tikva I just wanna say I ya know I've been able to pull it together pretty well this whole time but I really have been geeking out over here not just because I like your comic and you're creating relateable content and stuff like that but ya know I have relationships now that are ya know that are still going that I genuinely believe are only still going because of your comic and because of things that I've learned from it and things I picked up along the way that you have kind of put out there and so your art is incredibly meaningful and incredibly powerful so it's just really important to me that you hear that and I'm sure you do all the time but I wanted you to hear it from me because I think that you create really really amazing content and I think it's important for you to hear that it helps people in a very real way

[Tikva]: thank you that's really meaningful I uh I mean I put things down on paper and it's helpful to me too cause I don't always know those things [laughs] just knew it in the moment I wrote it down so it's really helpful to me it's funny I have a snarky partner who's amazing but sometimes like sent me links to my own comics and like ya know [laughs] like god dammit

[Sophie]: that's really excelent so before we get going I just wanna remind our listeners that we have a patreon which you have the link to on your cover art you also have the link to our facebook page our twitter account and our email uhh which is an email address not a link and you can't click on them becdause it's an image that's how images look I'm told but you can type them into the search bar and go visit these places and boy would we ever appriciate it if you did and I want to give a shout out to our patrons thank you to Mitch hamilton, Marissa alexa mccool and ari stillman, thank you to Jade, thank you Vlad and thank you miles kataro, y'all are seriously awesome uhh that's all the patrons we have at the time when we're recording this so if you're hearing and you go what the hell I donated money and I didn't get a shoutout it's comin don't you even worry about it, if you're lookin to get your name on the show that starts at just one dollar a month a five dollars a month you get access to some bonus conent we've uploaded and at ten dollars a month you get all the episodes a week early and everything else from the other levels obviously ya know you're not gonna miss out on the bonus episodes for upgrading that would be weird but ya know I just wanna give all of our wonderful fans a shout out and a wonderful thank you because you all absolutely make my day whenver you listen to this and I just wanna say if you enjoyed the program that absolutely fills my heart and you should share it with at least one friend or partner this week just download it on their phone for them because they'll forget the name, I think it's catchy but ya know when you're just being told about it at the gym or whatever it is hard to remember so just do them that favor give them the gift of this show and my horrible sense of humor download your favorite episode on there for them and let them listen to it and if they like it then that's great and if they don't then thats not on you you're not repsonsible for their poor taste so yeah I think that's about it this time thanks again for oh and I also wanna mention we have advertising slots on the show email us to find out more information about that they start at just five dollars an episode so thanks again for listening and remember don't date your best friend's dad and don't date your dad's best friend

[Tikva]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: see ya next time folks

["Good old fashioned lover boy" by Queen plays]

[Announcer]: This show was part of the trans podcaster visibility initiative