#theme: equality

This is never directly stated in the story, but it is very strongly implied.

In chapter 33 Guts explains his driving need for Griffith's friendship as desperately wanting Griffith to "look at him," the way Gambino never did. He craves affection and reciprocation from someone he loves because he didn't get it in his childhood, and that's contextualized as attention. More than anything else, he wants Griffith to look at him.

And that's something illustrated visually quite often, throughout the manga both pre and post Eclipse.

Then here in chapter 91:

When Guts flashes back to Griffith's Promrose Hall speech about friendship while making his war declaration. In this flashback Griffith is saying that a True Friend and Equal values his own dream above everything else, to the point where if he threatened that dream, his True Friend and Equal would "oppose him body and soul."

Because Guts is remembering this specific part of the speech after declaring war on Griffith, the narrative is telling us that the two of them being mortal enemies now doesn't actually conflict with Griffith's definition of friendship, and Guts is still lowkey pursuing that dream of being Griffith's equal, of having Griffith "look at him."

There's also the way Guts leaves the Hawks to pursue a dream specifically to "have Griffith look at him," and he describes that dream to Casca as killing stronger and stronger enemies, presumably until he's the best. This ominously parallels Black Swordsman Guts, whose whole thing is fighting stronger and stronger enemies - monsters - until he can reach Griffith. This parallel also implies that Guts' revenge campaign is an attempt to get Griffith's attention and prove himself his equal.

You see it as early as chapter 7, when Guts tells Femto "Wait...!!" as soon as he looks away from him.

And he's spurred on to climb those stairs and confront him directly despite many broken bones and near-fatal pain from the brand as soon as the Godhand laugh about Guts even being considered their enemy, and Femto says, "His petty existence is beneath our notice." Guts is still fuming about Femto saying that even a chapter later lol.

Then in chapter 182 Guts internally compares NeoGriffith "deserting" him to Griffith's heartbreak when Guts left the Hawks.

Which is probably the strongest illustration of Guts' need for Griffith's attention, even after the Eclipse. Like this is an absolutely bizarre emotional reaction to your mortal enemy leaving instead of fighting you. Instead of rage, Guts is sad and mournful, acting like he's been abandoned.

This is also when Guts gives up on his revenge campaign for a while, which imo also indicates that a big part of his motivation for revenge is to get Griffith's attention. Griffith refuses to give it in this chapter, and Guts gives up for a while.

And then right now Guts is having a breakdown about his sword being useless against Griffith, which is less overt but can still easily be read as Guts breaking down over the proof that he's nowhere near Griffith's level as an equal, that he is still completely beneath Griffith's notice because he can't even touch him.

So yeah Guts never like, tells anyone that he'd rather have Griffith hate him than be indifferent to him, but I think it's strongly implied throughout the story that a big part of what motivates his revenge rampage is wanting Griffith's attention.

I have a few more posts about it that get into this topic at different angles if you're interested.

answer to a similar question loneliness and guts' feelings about neogriffith how guts could still be griffith's equal

I thiiiink this is the best one I have on the subject in terms of like, being concise and having an actual take.

I think this is the post I allude to in the first one, which is aimless musing on the Conviction arc that includes those parallels, with this as a little followup addendum.

But neither of those posts are very good lol, the first is fairly brief and the second is rambly and bewildered, so I'll dig into my thoughts here a bit.

I agree that Luca/Nina is really hard to unpack lol, the Conviction arc in general to me is so cynical about relationships that it's hard to reconcile with the rest of the story framing relationships more optimistically. It hammers down the theme of some people being torches in the dark that other people cling to and resent over and over and over, and Luca/Nina is the main example of that, with Nina looking up to Luca and clinging to her as a leader while (presumably) remaining immature, vs Nina striking out on her own with Joachim in a more positive, equal relationship that allows her to (potentially) grow.

Nina and Luca are very overtly paralleled to griffguts in some ways, from straightforward imagery like Nina grabbing Luca as they dangle from a giant hand, to stuff like comparisons to fire ("torches in the dark" / "blazing inferno" eg), and the general thematic relationship stuff about being weak and depending on people.

But those threatened by the dark… can by no means ever let go of a torch. All they can do is stare in blank surprise at their illuminated, disgustingly cruel selves… and continue to suffer it…  And to protect their stunted self-esteem they depend on it… all the while hating it.

It can easily be read as griffguts negative and even gtsca positive, on a surface level. Nina leaving Luca to go out on her own with Joachim could easily be mapped onto Guts leaving the Hawks and later engaging in a potential relationship with Casca. (And from Griffith's perspective, the above monologue from Eggman perfectly describes the second duel and everything that comes after.) But, while I'm obviously biased lol, I do think that's a shallow reading.

I think Nina and Luca, and Nina and Joachim for that matter, are better read as foils to Guts and Griffith's relationship, rather than a pure straightforward negative parallel vs positive contrast. Nina and Luca represent the type of relationship formed around like, admiration/pedestalization and self loathing.

They're a parallel to Guts and Griffith after Guts hears the Promrose Hall speech and starts viewing Griffith as a distant godlike figure. In some ways they also parallel Guts and Casca, with Guts clinging to Casca as his final "feeble flame," post-Eclipse, or the King and Charlotte with Charlotte as his source of warmth, or Farnese and religion, or maybe Serpico and Farnese, or Casca and Griffith, the RPG group and Guts can be paralleled as well, etc.

Nina and Joachim represent a more equal relationship with both parties relying on each other while seeing each other as people, rather than pedestalizing the other as a "torch in the dark."

They're a parallel to Guts and Griffith pre-Promrose Hall, Farnese and Casca, I would argue Casca and Judeau in potentia, maybe Guts and Casca in potentia, maybe like, Puck and Guts lol, yk. Mutually beneficial relationships where both help each other, both are emotionally vulnerable with each other, neither looks up at the other as a symbol of everything they're not.

I don't think the takeaway from the end of the Conviction arc is that all Nina/Luca type relationships should break up and see other people lol, since I think we've seen multiple relationships in Berserk shift from one to the other, healthy to unhealthy, unhealthy to healthy, Griffith and Guts being the central example of a relationship that encompasses both. Relationships aren't static - it's all about different mindsets. Nina and Luca and Joachim are just one way of illustrating the difference very bluntly.

A person hurts someone just because they're strong. And they hate someone just because they're weak. ... I think I'll go with this man who is burdened with the same weaknesses and sins as I.

I think the Conviction arc has a very cynical take on relationships, but yeah after considering it for a while I don't think it thematically contradicts the rest of the story and its more positive take on relationships. I don't think Berserk as a whole treats "A person hurts someone because they're strong and hates someone because they're weak" as like, an objective immutable fact, for example. It's not really about finding a person who is your exact equal because anyone else is going to be bad for you lol. But it's deinitely true when the characters have a certain negative mindset.

Like here's one very straightforward example I like to cite as a healthy vs unhealthy mindset that fits, even if it's not an interpersonal relationship: When Guts is happy and fulfilled, he doesn't care that Zodd is stronger than him. He cares that Griffith helped him. When Guts is unhappy and unfulfilled, his new goal is to become strong enough to kill Zodd, the only person he's encountered who makes him feel (physically) weak. Or like, Black Swordsman Guts absolutely hurts people because he's stronger than them and hates anyone who makes him feel weak, but that wasn't the case during his three years with the Hawks, and that attitude also hugely lessened while journeying with the RPG group.

The Conviction arc is all about how someone with low self esteem views relationships. Maybe it was the right choice for Nina to leave with Joachim and work on herself away from Luca. Maybe it would've also been a perfectly fine choice to stay with Luca while working on her self-esteem, and on viewing other people as equals who are all flawed in some way, rather than pedestalizing some and looking down on others. But as a dichotemy to illustrate a negative mindset (people as torches in the dark) vs a positive mindset (people are people you can connect with as equals) Nina/Luca vs Nina/Joachim is fine I guess.

So yeah, Nina/Luca is definitely a griffguts parallel, but they're also a griffguts contrast to the three happy years of the Golden Age, and ultimately imo they're a statement on how a relationship can become unhealthy when you have low self esteem. It's also telling that both Guts and Griffith are a Nina who sees the other as Luca, another big indication that it's about self-esteem moreso than any inherent inequality in a given relationship. Guts and Griffith could have been a Nina/Joachim, they absolutely had that potential to simply view each other as people and grow together in positive ways, but they fucked it up because of their self loathing.

I mean yeah, one of the big reasons I dislike Guts/Casca is that it's written as a fucked up nightmare trainwreck but arguably not framed that way, and that really puts me off. Miura was clearly aware of many of the negative aspects of their relationship and wrote that darkness deliberately - I mean the fact that Casca is scared of Guts and now can't even look at him is pretty pointed - buuut it's still written as if we're meant to sympathize with Guts and want him and Casca to get back together despite that. Their relationship is written as one of the emotional hooks that propels the story. Casca may be scared of him, ruining their reunion, but it reads like we're meant to be disappointed by that the way Guts is and hope he can regain her trust, rather than eg wanting Casca to leave him and do her own thing.

Anyway as for Guts' motivation wrt his shittiness towards her on a character level, yeah I think he resents her. Both the responsibility of taking care of her, distracting him from his revenge quest (which he has mixed feelings on, because he knows revenge is bad for him, but he also really wants to stick a sword in Griffith regardless), and the fact that she's "just a husk" of her former self. And probably post-Elfhelm, the fact that she can't look at him, making him feel guilty and aimless, like the fix Casca quest was all for nothing.

And the way he attacks her to feel closer to Griffith is pretty badly written imo, but in theory I think it works on a thematic level. His obsession with Griffith, even post-Eclipse, boils down to wanting to be his equal. After Promrose Hall he was determined to find his own dream to be Griffith's equal and best friend forever, and after the Eclipse he's still pursuing that dream of fighting stronger and stronger enemies (monsters) and becoming the best to be Griffith's equal (note the flashback to Griffith's Promrose speech during Guts' war declaration in chapter 91, plus this.)

And the inevitable end goal of that dream is becoming a monster himself.

So to me it makes sense that the idea of becoming a monster just like Griffith is framed as a temptation.

And it manifests in Guts assaulting Casca in a direct visual parallel to the Eclipse rape.

Raping Casca would make Guts a monster just like Femto, which is something Guts subconsciously wants, because it would be another step on the road to becoming his equal.

You can even take it a step further and make a case that Guts wanting to get together with Casca in the first place is rooted in his desire to be Griffith's equal.

(Which, now that I think about it, works with the fix Casca sidequest culminating in both Casca being unable to get back together with Guts AND Griffith being untouchable, sending Guts into a breakdown. Hmm...)

Because Guts is what's making his heart go bthump!

I have a post about the paneling specifically here, actually, but I'll get into it again because I feel like that explanation could be more detailed lol.

So basically they're positioned like that, Guts on one side of the panel, Griffith on the other, as a parallel and contrast to the final panel immediately before that page:

Griffith is on the left, fetus is on the right. Fetus is Griffith's theory, or hope. I came here to test my heart and make sure I don't have feelings, and oops looks like I just failed that test while watching Guts fight a stronger opponent, notably similar circumstances to the first time I ever saw him. Hmm gotta be that fetus, surely these feelings aren't real.

This is a conclusive counterpoint to Griffith's argument, stemming from reality rather than Griffith's thoughts. It's the final page of the chapter so it has greater weight than Griffith's fetus theory. It's composed similarly, Griffith on the left and the other possible source of feelings on the right - but Guts is right there, and the fetus is only Griffith's thoughts, so Guts has more weight in that sense too.

And that final "......... bthump" is the perfect capstone, because it's essentially saying that Guts is causing that heartbeat. The final word of this chapter is Griffith's heart beating when faced with Guts.

The panel is composed like this despite not reflecting how Griffith is viewing Guts in reality, imo to hammer home the point that Guts specifically is the source of feelings. It's not the excitement of the fight, it's not Zodd, it's not even concern for Guts' life necessarily, it's just Guts, and the raw intensity Guts exhibits in the middle of a fight, the same thing that drew Griffith to him when they first met. This panel especially emphasizes their gazes - Griffith is gazing at Guts, but Guts isn't gazing at Griffith - but this could also suggest that Griffith would like Guts to be looking at him like that, with that same intensity.

It also parallels the two of them, the way they each get one half of a face. In the context of Griffith's singularity as The Absolute, and Guts' own tempation towards becoming a monster that becomes especially pronounced during fights, and the constant emphasis on power dynamics and the two of them wanting to be equals throughout the story, this arguably suggests the potential for the two of them to still be equals in ways that actually matter, despite Griffith being a god now. Guts humanizes Griffith here by making his heart beat, Griffith monsterizes Guts by enraging him.

And to be perfectly honest, I don't think it's a coincidence that Guts looks particularly good in this panel either lol. Guts here is essentially what Griffith is imagining he looks like as he faces Zodd. And it's something Miura does regularly imo. Characters become more attractive when they're the objects of certain gazes. I have a long post about Griffith from Guts' perspective here, but Guts also gets this treatment from Griffith's perspective during the rescue. There are probably heterosexual examples too, but I don't recall them offhand because that's not what I'm reading Berserk for. That second one is arguably half heterosexual anyway lol.

So yeah, basically imo the reason is: to emphasize Guts as the cause of Griffith's feelings, to parallel them, and to add some homoeroticism.

In my head it’s both a demonstration of Griffith’s childlike side and like, baring himself before Guts as this perfect looking/idealized being saying he’s going to get his kingdom…but then the nakedness makes it weirdly vulnerable too…? Would love to hear your thoughts!!

I agree that there's a vulnerability to Griffith, and his child-like side is v deliberate imo.

I actually take it as a parallel to the flashback with Griffith and Casca in the river after Gennon, in that Griffith is physically naked and emotionally open, very humanized, in both scenes before closing back up with a reaffirmation of his dream. The river scene is like a sad and depressing and more revealing reprise, in a way, where it becomes very clear that Griffith's dream obsession is a defense mechanism, rather than a genuine belief.

In the waterfight scene Griffith and Guts connect in a playful way, as two children who don't get to act like children very often. And imo it's an interesting affirmation of their true equality deep down, despite appearances/social status/dreams: Griffith just won a duel to keep Guts as a soldier, but now Guts wins a "duel" in the waterfight. He even calls them even after dumping the last bucket of water over Griffith's head. It's also nicely symbolic for Guts choosing to stay, rather than feeling forced by a duel.

I think the point is mainly to show how they're compatible as friends, and that one big reason Griffith likes Guts is because Guts treats him pretty irreverently (up until the Promrose Hall speech), in a way no one else we see really does. He plays with him, wins the water fight when Griffith isn't expecting it, and questions why Griffith saved his life in the raid the night before. This dynamic feels like a good starting point for Guts ignoring Griffith's orders and Griffith planning around him instead of keeping him in line like Casca wants him to do, Griffith asking Guts to assassinate people for him instead of ordering him to, Guts trying to visit Griffith after Zodd injures him because "who gives a damn about social status?" before being stopped by Casca, etc.

Griffith shuts down Guts' question by claiming he only saved Guts' life because he's a good soldier, and then moves onto his grandiose speech about his dream, and imo that's an emotional distancing tactic. Something Griffith probably isn't really aware he's doing, but it's a way for him to subconsciously protect himself from the realization that Guts is more important to him than his dream, by denying that he saved Guts for any reason except that it serves his dream.

It basically helps set up Griffith's image while sowing seeds that belie that image - Griffith is dedicated to a dream, Griffith is impressive and noble and Guts will die when Griffith chooses but not before then, yadda yadda yadda. That's the image. But the reality underneath is Griffith inviting a blushing Guts to bathe with him while naked lol, starting a waterfight with him and losing, and essentially being a 15 year old kid with a crush. Or wait, you said aside from the homoeroticism lol. I'll describe it as being a 15 year old kid who needs a friend who doesn't treat him like an idol, but doesn't know that's what he needs yet, and can't quite conceive of how friendship works because he's too obsessed with his dream.

So yeah basically Griffith acting like an ordinary human kid who wants a friend with Guts, then closing himself off and making it all about the dream when Guts basically calls him out on risking his life to save him. This dichotemy that Judeau describes at the start of the chapter, illustrated, and just begun to be explained:

He's a child who has to act like an adult, a kid with a little too much wisdom, a good guy who becomes a villain because he talks himself into believing he is.

As for Guts, I think this scene demonstrates a big part of why Guts chooses to stay with the Hawks. He doesn't stay just because Griffith beat him in a fight - after this scene he spends a while reflecting and wondering if he should stay, and decides that he wants to.

So for Guts it's the feeling of making friends including Griffith, having Griffith's trust as a soldier, and having Griffith save his life. This chapter is the turning point where Guts decides he's found a place, at least "for now," and it's no coincidence that the main focus of this chapter is Guts bonding with Griffith.

All that said, I don't think the waterfight can really be divorced from homoeroticism honestly. Like it just seems disingenuous to ignore it when it comes to moments like this:

I do definitely think there's an extent to which Miura intended the homoeroticism, and intended to imply that Guts and Griffith at the very least have the potential to connect romantically, whether that's something Miura would've imagined for them in an AU where nothing goes wrong, or whether it would always be unrealized potential that simply adds to the intensity and complexity of their relationship. It's a safe bet to assume the latter I suppose, but either way, it's there, and Miura has discussed homoeroticism in the context of Griffith and androgynous characters in general, at least.

So I do think another important aspect of the scene is to show a spark of physical attraction between them. But yeah tbf it's not the most relevant aspect thematically, it's more like some extra flavour that colours Guts and Griffith's relationship. Everything about them still makes technical sense as a platonic friendship. Just not quite as much thematically satisfying sense lol.

When Casca and Guts are stranded after Adon causes them to fall off the cliff, and Casca is talking about her and Griffith’s intertwined backstory, she mentions multiple times the act of Griffith touching her shoulder and smiling at her, and how it either calmed her or made her sad because she knew that either way he was being strong for her and showing his care for her, regardless of how he felt at the time.

We know that Guts touching Griffith on the shoulder is what sets off the eclipse. A gesture meant to comfort and console. Guts does this with Griffith often, it’s sort of his way of giving him a hug and shows how much Guts cares for him and loves him, since he doesn’t tolerate being touched or touching anyone else in most scenarios. When Guts assassinates Yurius and he and Griffith finally take down the queen and members of her court, and Griffith asks Guts if he thinks he’s cruel, Guts touches him on the shoulder and smiles after brushing the remark off. We also know that to Griffith, the answer he was given wasn’t exactly the one he was hoping for and it saddened him. A gesture typically meant to ease worries caused further sadness and distress, like the final touch of the shoulder that sets off the eclipse. I just think that’s a really beautiful and cool parallel between the relationships of Griffith and Casca, and Griffith and Guts. Griffith is the one who typically consoles Casca and the other hawks, whereas with Guts he is the one being consoled and being shown love through touch. I can imagine it being refreshing and new to be on the other side of that interaction. Idk if this matters at all and i haven’t slept in 24 hours so please forgive the lazy typing, i just wanted to share. Love your blog and your beautiful berserk ridden mind always and forever

Yeah! It's a really solid motif with some interesting implications! I actually have discussed these parallels a little in the fourth part of my Griffith essay here, if you're interested. Another really telling moment, imo, is when Casca puts her hand on Griffith's back in the wagon right before the Eclipse, in a visually similar sequence to Griffith placing his hand on Casca's shoulder in the river and telling her he's fine.

It seems like a way of highlighting the role reversal of power, both in Griffith's weakness after the torture when Casca is now the one who has to be strong and comfort him, and in his relationship with Guts in general, as in the Tombstone of Flame and lake scenes you pointed out. With Guts he's not powerless because of the torture, but because of his feelings for him, and consequently his emotional reliance on him - Guts makes him weak, emotionally and that's like a visual way of showing us imo.

If possible, I wanted to ask you what do you think about what happened in the last chapter (374). Like, why Guts throws up seeing Griffith? Idk how to feel about this! Thank you so much!

Thank you!

I think the vomiting specifically is just an expression of his inner turmoil. What he's feeling most overtly is rage and self-loathing for not being able to land a hit on Griffith, which is tied into his obsession with being Griffith's equal (which informs his revenge rampage, as you can see by Guts remembering Griffith's Promrose Hall speech as he makes his war declaration after the Eclipse). There's this whole sense of intense failure in being unable to reach him, in Griffith still being so far removed from him.

More subtextually but still pretty clear, that desire to be Griffith's equal ties back to wanting Griffith to look at him and respect him, and that's also unachievable now, it seems. Griffith doesn't respect him as a friend or an enemy - Guts is still beneath his notice.

He wants to drag Griffith back down to his level and force him to really see him and look at him again, imo, even if that's while he's dying by Guts' hand, and now even that "dream" feels out of reach.

Do you think Neo!Griffith cares for Sonia, Mule or the new hawks at all??

I doubt he does but Ive just always been really confused over Neo!Griffith and his emotions... They are way more ambigious in comparassion to Golden age!Griffith where we actually got much more ideas over what he is truly feeling.

Idt this is a stupid question at all, it's interesting!

The manga is deliberately ambiguous about NGriff's feelings, and there are a lot of hints that he feels some kind of way about the old Band of the Hawk, and potentially that he's trying to replace them. He invited Rickert to join him for a reason, and Rickert's rejection highlighted Griffith's emotional ambiguity - his face as Rickert leaves is hidden, Rickert's rejection leaves him essentially speechless which is wild for a demi-god with magical charisma powers who never misses a step, he can only agree with Rickert that the new Band and the new Griffith aren't the same as the old, and the possibility is left open that he tried to have Rickert killed after this - and even if that was Locus instead, the fact that it's a possibility means that we're meant to consider that Griffith had a strong negative emotional reaction to Rickert's rejection.

On top of that there have been other strong hints that he's lonely, like the portrait at the end of chapter 250, aka the chapter all about the inherent loneliness of monsters and magical beings; the fact that he's described as "the absolute, without equal" which is very loaded in a story where Griffith once made a speech about how he can only be friends with an equal; the parallels to Guts' storyline of making new friends but being removed from them; the parallels to Guts' "don't abandon what you can't replace" and "even if you replace what you lost... it still won't be the same" themes; the parallel to Ganishka and his extreme loneliness and isolation; and, most overtly, the latest chapter where the dream-like memories of hanging out with Guts and Casca make him cry lol.

So there's absolutely room for him to have feelings about the new Band and his new "friends."

Idk whether I'd guess that he actually cares for them though. I think in a way he might. He's probably fond of them, I'm sure he'd act to prevent their deaths (unless he wanted them to die for some reason), and the way he behaves around them maybe indicates that he wants to be liked, not just admired from afar - asking about Sonia and Mule's day, complimenting Charlotte's baking and tea and whatever else, letting Sonia play with his cape, etc.

But I'd suggest that to him they're a poor replacement for the original Band of the Hawk. I think he misses the closeness he had with Guts and even Casca and the rest despite being emotionally removed from them - he was still closer to the band as a human than he can be now as a demi-god on another level of existential awareness.

His new companions might be an attempt to mitigate that sense of loss, but ultimately a failed attempt, imo.