#svsss analysis

Liu Qingge did not hate Shen Jiu because of a misunderstanding on his part!

Liu Qingge did not assume he was a rich and arrogant young master (I have no idea where this idea came from), nor is there any indication he particularly cared about the brothel visits. He hated Shen Jiu because of his actual behaviors!

Shen Jiu treated him horribly after Liu Qingge beat him in Cang Qiong Mountain’s annual martial arts tournament:

Within Cang Qiong Mountain, the one he undoubtedly hated most was Liu Qingge. Liu Qingge had achieved success in his youth; his talents were extraordinary, his spiritual energy vast, and his swordplay awe-inspiring. His family background was excellent, and both his parents were alive. Any one of these things would have been enough to make Shen Qingqiu gnash his teeth and toss and turn for three days and three nights, let alone all of them together in one person. During Cang Qiong Mountain’s annual martial arts tournament, Shen Qingqiu’s opponent had been Liu Qingge. Naturally, the conclusion had been an overwhelming loss on his part. There was no shame in losing to the future Bai Zhan Peak Lord, or perhaps one should say that this was how it should be. That it was normal. But Shen Qingqiu would absolutely never think such things. What he saw wasn’t the bystanders’ amazement at how he’d valiantly held out for so long but Liu Qingge’s matter-of-fact arrogance as he held the point of Cheng Luan’s blade inches from his throat. Qing Jing Peak prided itself on being the gentleman’s peak, and Shen Qingqiu took to playing a gentleman like a fish to water. Yet Liu Qingge was always able to make his rage boil to the surface, to the point that he didn’t bother wasting energy playing nice with his sect sibling. The thing Shen Qingqiu most often said to Liu Qingge was: “Liu Qingge, I’ll definitely kill you one day!”

SVSSS Volume 4 Chapter 24 Part 4

As Shen Qingqiu had turned a deaf ear to his every plea, Yue Qingyuan found it difficult to speak further. After all, he couldn’t straight-up tell him something like: If you hadn’t used every means to ambush Liu Qingge after the meet in order to teach him a lesson, the two of you wouldn’t fly into a rage at the slightest contact now, nor would you loathe the mere sight of each other.

SVSSS Volume 4 Chapter 24 Part 4

A lot of fanfics have Liu Qingge regularly dragging Shen Jiu out of brothels, but in actuality the only time he confronted Shen Jiu at one was due to Shen Jiu giving a different Bai Zhan disciple a severe beating:

Though conflict often erupted between Shen Qingqiu and Bai Zhan Peak, the conflict this time was truly overblown. A Bai Zhan Peak disciple had gone to this small, remote town for a task, where he had just happened to see a familiar person enter the largest brothel in the area, the Warm Red Pavilion. From top to bottom, Bai Zhan Peak felt the same as Liu Qingge: none of them harbored any goodwill toward Shen Qingqiu. Therefore the disciple had obviously refused to let this chance pass by; he’d directly followed Shen Qingqiu into the brothel, then mocked him for being a hypocrite and actually entering this sort of place, saying that he’d lost face for their entire sect. After a couple of undiplomatic words, Shen Qingqiu had beaten him severely, leaving him with serious injuries. When this disciple returned to Bai Zhan Peak, he’d run into Liu Qingge. After questioning him, Liu Qingge had been steaming with rage, he had promptly rushed over on his sword for payback, ready to hit Shen Qingqiu back for every blow.

SVSSS Volume 4 Chapter 24 Part 4

So Liu Qingge only interrupted him at the Warm Red Pavilion to get payback on behalf of another Bai Zhan disciple. The text doesn’t mention him making a single comment about the brothel visit itself.

———

The only misunderstanding between the two occurred after their mutual hatred was well established:

"But if it was a woman offering herself sexually to a man who had always abused her showing the slightest bit of kindness it would be recognized as the hypersexual and self destructive behavior that it is." &

"The fact he came on to shen yuan sexually after only a moment of kindness makes me think he views his ability to give pleasure as the only thing he can give someone."

I'm gonna be thinking about this for months. You explained it so good and I'd love to hear more on what you have to say on this topic (if you want!! No pressure)

thank you sm! ^_^ tbh I was actually nervous to post this because I didn’t know how it would be received…I don’t think I have heard anyone talk about bingge and his fundamentally fucked up relationship to sex and women before. It’s a topic I’ve given a lot of thought to so I’m happy to say more!

first I would like to say, even our bingmei knows he’s attractive.

Luo Binghe honestly wasn't a narcissist, he'd just always been very self-aware of how he looked to others. He didn't gleefully revel in his appearance, but he also wouldn't downplay it for the sake of false humility. (Book 1)

at the immortal alliance conference, girls gossip about him and compare his attractiveness against Gongxi Yao’s. Even bingmei often has gaggles of girls interested in him. At this time, Luo Binghe is 15. The age of the girls isnt mentioned but we know binghe has been hearing people talk about his good looks since he was at least 15, and likely older.

Shen qingqiu describes the scene where Luo Bingge loses his virginity as thus:

The girl thought, “Since I’m about to die, I must leave behind some memories to ensure that my life won’t have been in vain. I don’t have many days left, after all, so I won’t suppress my feelings anymore.”

Then, using her weak and fragile body, she pushed Luo Binghe down.

Luo Binghe put up a brief show of resistance before telling himself “She did all for my sake. I don’t have the heart to reject her final wish.” He yielded, still half-reluctant, and went along with it… (Book 1)

he was coerced into sex by circumstance and it’s even said she pushed him down and he resisted. He “went along with it” and “yielded”. All very passive language to describe his behavior during sex. Her feelings for him are placed directly over his autonomy and consent. Now knowing the type of novel PIDW is, I would very sincerely doubt Binghe being a victim of constant violation and that being brushed aside was intentional and meant to make a point or appeal to readers into forced to penetrate rape. It is a side effect of the world he is in that he will constantly be a victim of sexual assault. It’s also very notable that his first time having sex he is hesitant but is later described to be an insatiable sexual force initiating and demanding sex. To me this sounds like it is meant to say he progressed from a shyness around sex to a drive for it, which would be somewhat normal, if again, the time we see him hesitant around sex is directly rape. Meaning it’s more likely that he became sexually assertive after a long time of being unable to resist sexual situations.

now I won’t deny that obviously, Bingge is a rapist himself. He has forced himself onto countless women the way Qin Wanyue forced herself onto him. But I would also like to point out that Bingge resisting Qin Wanyue’s advances was painted as a half hearted struggle he eventually gave into. It would not be outlandish at all to say that perhaps he saw women resisting him as similar and thus ignored their consent because his was never respected and he considered it normal.

now onto my thoughts from the bingge vs Bingmei extra, I have many! But I would like to preface by bringing back up my original comparison of “if Bingge was a woman sexually offering herself to shen qingqiu”. I thought perhaps people would point out how it’s different because Luo Bingge forced himself onto Shen Qingqiu, but perusing the text, that’s not exactly true. He initiated and Shen Qingqiu (thinking it was bingmei) reciprocated. But it WAS very much coming onto him. It just wasn’t in a sexually submissive way, which is why it’s not recognized as behavior that could indicate a very unhealthy relationship to sex. Rather it’s seen as sexual agression.

Shen Qingqiu's appearance was stellar: his shoulders were neither too broad nor too bulky, while his waist was thin and his legs long.

Enveloped in Qing Jing Peak's many-layered teal uniform, he was immaculate and slender, with a great deal of graceful beauty. Yes... It was his graceful beauty. Shen Qingqiu pushed the door shut behind him. He had yet to get within five steps of Luo Binghe when he was yanked forward, and he fell into Luo Binghe's embrace as those arms tightened around his waist. Luo Binghe's fingers trailed down his side, occasionally squeezing and kneading. Hand. Hand. Thank you—hand! Your hand! When Shen Qingqiu went to grab Luo Binghe's paw in a backhanded grip, he twisted. Somehow Shen Qingqiu found himself pressed down on top of Luo Binghe's thigh with his legs apart, trapped in place. In the next moment, Luo Binghe caressed his nape before pulling him down, and his lips were captured again. (Book 4)

I’d also like to mention the first part here, where Shen Qingqiu’s beauty is described. I would dare to say that the description is similar to how one of Bingges wives would be spoken about. It’s like he’s justifying his sexual advance-it’s because of his graceful beauty, his figure, how he resembles a conquest that I am sexually initiating. Totally not because he showed me kindness for the first time in a way no wife ever could. when shen qingqiu does begin to resist and struggle, he sees it as par for the course, because he doesn’t know to see resistance as anything other than a coy game.

With a cold laugh, he encircled Shen Qingqiu's right wrist with one hand while continuing to press down on his nape with the other. Then he skillfully flipped them over, rolling them onto the bed together. Looking down at Shen Qingqiu from overhead, he smiled brightly. "What's wrong, Shizun? Don't you love me very much? So why aren't you willing to give in to me?" (Book 4)

he doesnt consider consent, only “giving in”. If someone isn’t willing, he must persist until they are. This is absolutely inexcusably rapist behavior. But it’s UNDOUBTABLY learned from how HE once was treated. And his idea of love is so shallow he thinks love = giving in to sex. If shen qingqiu loves him, why won’t he give in?

To him, love = sex. That can’t really be argued. So when Shen Qingqiu shows him affection, he naturally thinks sex will follow. Considering he is wasn’t very touchy or affectionate before coming onto him at all, I think that he initiates sex less out of sexual attraction and more out of an expectation someone cares for him only because they wish to bed him. Being sexually aggressive and dominant doesn’t make it not unhealthy, hypersexual behavior.

and as for the giving pleasure thing-he mentions several times Shen Qingqiu should chose him because he can bring him more pleasure. He genuinely cannot fathom the idea of choosing someone for an emotional connection and love over someone who can make you sexually pleased

Suddenly, he said, "With technique that bad, what's so good about him anyway?" When this line came out of nowhere, Shen Qingqiu's hand trembled a little. But he forced it down and continued attacking. Unfortunately, Bing-ge refused to restrain himself. "Shizun, you've already experienced my prowess. Since we're the same person, why not come with me? I'll definitely give you more pleasure than he could." (Book 4)

he doesn’t see himself as different than bingmei because they share a body. I would wager a guess to say that he thinks shen qingqiu won’t see a difference between bingmei and him because it’s the same body, and his body is whats desirable about him. Why not take the same body but with more sex skills?

The original's expression suddenly gentled as he looked at Shen Lingqiu. "Shizun, do you blame me for making things too painful last time?" Luo Binghe went wide-eyed. "Shizun, you've met him before?" If an encounter in the System counted as a meeting, then that was a yes. Not wanting to give a half-hearted answer, Shen Qingqiu said, "It was only a chance meeting.” (Book 4)

”why are you resisting? Was it because the sex wasn’t good?”

bingge is being sly and trying to rile up bingmei here but I find it interesting he poses the reason for himself being refused is because he couldn’t bring him pleasure and not because Shen Qingqiu didn’t want him or consent.

And so unfair. The image of the two of them standing together was so glaring that his eyes began to hurt, the rims prickling with heat. Even though they were both Luo Binghe... For what reason had that one been able to meet this sort of Shen Qingqiu, while he had only met a rotten bastard-vindictive, petty, and jealous to the core? For what reason?! The carefully preserved clothes and belongings, the pristine and tidy side room, the gentle whispers, the boundless doting and indulgence. He'd only wanted to humiliate them, because that disgusting relationship of theirs elicited nothing but his contempt, and yet— And yet the, "Come with me," that left his mouth in that instant was involuntary, and it was addressed to Shen Qingqiu. (Book 4)

Oh bingge…

describing their relationship as “disgusting” strikes me particularly. It’s kind of a stretch but I would maybe dare say he assumed there was some past sexual abuse involved in Bingmei and Shen Qingqiu’s relationship, given what he knows of the man and their power gap?

Since hed come of age, no one had ever managed to push him this far. Being at such a disadvantage reminded him of the days when hed been persecuted and humiliated, trampled over in all kinds of ways. (Book 4)

Also a stretch, but “all kinds of ways” could easily include sexual abuse as well. It’s possible Binghe was sexually abused by someone if not Shen Jiu.

Bing-ge humphed. "Who made you so useless?" he asked dis-dainfully. "To think you have not a single woman." His standard for "uselessness" was practically a drunkard's. But Luo Binghe's focus wasn't on this at all. In his fury, scarlet blood seemed about to drip from his eyes, and he said sharply, "You dare to humiliate Shizun like this..." (Book 4)

his standard for “uselessness” is not acquiring tons of women. Bingmei is inferior and weak because he lacks a harem. If that doesn’t speak to how he views sexual prowess as worth idk what could. It’s VERY in your face

"Just playing around, the other Luo Binghe said mildly. Shen Qingqiu was stunned silent. Playing around with who? Playing around with me? Bing-ge, you. you'd accept all comers?! Welcoming both men and women! Is this something like "both meat and fish are fine— I'm not picky, I'll eat whatever I'm given"? (Book 4)

Shen Qingqiu is surprised Bingge is bisexual which is kinda funny lol. But his casual attitude to initiating sex-“just playing around”-and how binghe will “accept all comers” speaks to a pretty unhealthy relationship with sex, no? (Not the bisexual part obviously)

In the past, Shen Qingqiu had given Luo Binghe quite a few miscellaneous errands. Thus, one could often have found him on Xian Shu Peak. From time to time he'd gone there to deliver a letter, distribute a notice, invite someone over, or borrow something. When male disciples from other peaks came, they would at least sneak a couple of peeps, peering around and around until they ended up looking inside the maidens' quarters or bathhouse. Naturally, they'd be r- [beep-] -ed to death by the maidens' swords long before they made it to the bathhouse. Only Luo Binghe had treated the peak's disciples with respect and consciously maintained a strict distance every time he came; his reputation at Xian Shu Peak was correspondingly high. Therefore, everyone on Xian Shu Peak had given him tacit permission to enter the inner halls to wait. (Book 4)

not even to mention the group of girls who begin fawning over him Immediately after this scene, you can see that in their youth, both binghes were incredibly courteous to Xian Shu and female disciples in general. Bingges sexual agression is a learned behavior, not inherent to him.

First off all I find it interesting that at this point we don't get told this incident is Luo Binghe's first time or Qin Wanyue's name. Those come later.

Second let's go through the timeline with Shen Qingqiu of the PIDW event

1.

in order to save the male lead —whom she's known for less than two hours — that graceful little shimei let herself be hit by a demon's underhanded trick, and the poison contaminated her body. Luo Binghe felt an absolute obligation to save her

SVSSS Vol 1 Pg 142

First of all, how Qin Wanyue originally was poisoned is mirrored by how Shen Qingqiu got poisoned. Yes Shen Qingqiu had been in in this universe for longer then 2 hours but how much of that time had actually been near or around Binghe? He barely knows Binghe as a person at this point. He still had him locked into the role of a Character!

2.

It just so happened that, deep within the mountains where the Immortal Alliance Confrence was being held, there grew a mythical thousand-year-old flower...

...

Luo Binghe was sure this legendary flower would cure the poison

SVSSS Vol 1 Pg 142-143

This foreshadows the argument about the flower during the actual Immortal Alliance Confrence between Luo Binghe and Shen Qingqiu.

Also minor note: Binghe and Qin Wanyue look for the flower for 3 days while fighting monsters at the conference. But when we experience the conference it happens so quickly

That's just food for thought

3.

The girl thought, "Since I'm about to die, I must leave behind some memories to ensure my life won't have been in vain. I don't have many days left after all, so I won't suppress my feelings anymore."

SVSSS Vol 1 Pg 143 (bold for emphasis by me)

Shen Qingqiu displays this attitude twice.

Once when he self detonated, he let himself honestly reach out to Binghe in both comfort and apology for what happened at the conference. For all that it was a real death in order to swap to a new body he was, I felt, honest in that last moment in giving the comfort he always wants to give Binghe.

Second was at Maigu Ridge. He again wants to reach out to Binghe with comfort and love and affectio. I don't think the moment they have sex is that moment for him, even though he sees it coming and accepts it. It's when he gives Binghe the fake jade pedant and says his piece about what he would do if he was pregnant with Binghe (that's such a weird sentence)

As awful and violent as that sex in that scene is that moment Shen Qingqiu is just feeling and being with Binghe. He's loving him the way he wants to. And that includes the violence. He is accepting both Binghe's violent and possessive side and his tears and wish to care and be cared for in return.

4. This is where it gets ugly

(cut for discussions of rape in the narrative)

In a story about liars, it's foolish to want truth. I recognise that. To scratch that itch, I have read many fics about Shen Yuan's identity reveal. MANY MANY FICS. I just really wanted Binghe to know.

Grief is such a heavy all-consuming emotion that it make everything else seem petty in comparison. Squabbles are normal in any relationship. Then, something big happens and it feels stupid. Your own hurt and anger feels small and immature in comparison. Nothing matters as much as death. It's too...final. Definitive.

Being thrown into the Abyss and betrayed by the one who promised time and time again to protect and care for you wasn't a tiff, though. It wasn't trivial, in any sense. Even system insisted again and again, the Abyss arc was significant. Unskippable. Indispensable.

So Binghe was justifiably angry. He wanted answers. The truth. And then Shen Qingqiu self detonated to "pay his debts". And from Binghe's pov, every wrong done against him lost its power over him. This particular ocean is too deep and dark. He'll surely drown. Anything but this. He'll accept it all as long as it doesn't end like this.

Then years of failing to bring Shizun back. There's no energy left to be angry. Anger almost always leads to weariness. It seeps into your soul. Throughout the rest of the novel, it becomes clear to him that yes, Shizun does care for Binghe. Yes, there is love. However, Shizun won't choose Binghe in the way he wants to be chosen. Shizun loves him but Shizun also hurts him. And he hurts Shizun too.

If Shizun doesn't explain himself, then Binghe can just come up with his own answers. Or he can disregard it all. It's not important. It's not.

But it is. System said so. Shen Qingqiu mourned him. A part of Binghe died. They all knew. Maigu Ridge happened because Abyss happened. Because there were no answers. Binghe's insecurity, even in post canon extras, made complete sense.

I truly admire Binghe. I know he's... well everything that he is. But he was able to do something that I personally don't have the power to do. And that's letting go without an explanation.

Does knowledge of love make the pain go away?

I have had people in my life who I know loved me. But, one too many tiny hurts, one too many thought less words, drip resentment that fills over time. It doesn't stay as lovely as it could have been. Maybe all relationships are complicated because love through actions, no matter how regularly conveyed doesn't erase the rest.

An apology, in itself, isn't enough. Words aren't enough. Actions, also aren't enough. Doesn't he deserve both? A closure to why it happened and a commitment to why it won't ever again? Don't we all?

There's a reason why people ask authors for explanation. Truth has the maximum power when it comes from the source. Considering how sensitive Binghe is, it'll stay with him. Binghe can come up with a thousand different theories or ignore it all, but nothing will soothe him quite as well as Shen Qingqiu's truth.

Unfortunately, he's doomed to never get it.

so. i have a lot of thoughts about this concept/au. but like mostly in how it will affect shen jiu's general reputation/the rumours surrounding her (will be using she/her and feminine terms for shen jiu throughout this!). as well as the way her relationships with the people around her would change + the way shen yuan would navigate this world with the combination of his obliviousness + his perception of the genre he's working within + what potential romance with would look like in this au!

also you will have to forgive me in advance for the very western-centric arguments i will be making in this because. i am working off what i discuss at university which is unfair to apply to a chinese novel but! this isn't a serious critique as much as it is a fun thought experiment to run through because i enjoy applying these theories to things i read and enjoy. so take a lot of this with a grain of salt as far as serious criticisms go because i am not making any! just off-handedly discussing things i thought would be interesting to chew on in this verse.

rumours of lechery :

one thing i think would be interesting would be the way shen jiu visiting brothels would be perceived in this universe. i felt that in pidw, it was a problem because it compounded with the accusation that he preyed upon his female disciples. but in a universe with a female shen jiu, i think those rumours would be squashed before they even started. i know that it's popular to assume that homophobia doesn't exist in the svsss universe, which i'm pretty sure is implied canon and not fanon. but i feel this doesn't really account for lesbianism, which is veryyy absent from the novel past fanon extrapolated from a few scenes here and there. which is fair! the entire genre of the series revolves around a male x male pairing. i just guess i want to know in a more meta sense if airplane, while writing pidw, kind of wrote in the same invisibility of lesbianism into the work that would carry over when shen yuan eventually shifted the genre to a bl.

what i mean by invisibility of lesbianism is that historically, while homosexuality was prosecuted both as a mental illness and a crime categorized under sodomy (mostly due to the disruption of social order) there was a lot less scrutiny placed on lesbian relationships. mostly because they were essentially non-existent in the eyes of the law in the early? 18th and 19th century (feel free to fact-check me on this). as far as i recall this was mostly because without the actual like. act of penetration there was confusion on how sodomy between females would necessarily work. as well as the fact that female sexuality was something that the law was unconcerned with in general. but that's a bit of a tangent.

anyway! i bring this up because while the utopian view of homophobia as non-existent in the pidw/svsss-verse is awesome, i don't think there's necessarily evidence to argue that misogyny is treated the same way. which is important! because the invisibility of lesbianism is tied into both homophobia AND misogyny! which is a very roundabout way of saying that were shen jiu a woman in the pidw/svsss verse, there wouldn't be as severe of a case to make for her supposed lechery if she visited brothels because of the invisibility of female sexuality. and that even if she was having sex there, would they even necessarily know how to legally prosecute that?

also like. i know it can be tempting to argue against this as a concept because the setting itself has no homophobia at all so how can lesbianism be invisible but like! on a more meta level we have to keep in mind that airplane (who i'm assuming for the sake of this argument is a cis man because there is no canonical argument for any other conclusion, as far as i remember) wrote this novel, and the original novel inarguably employed misogynistic tropes in the creation of luo binghe's harem. and despite how shen yuan eventually shifted the genre, the original world he landed in was very much pidw before it started to morph around shen yuan's choices. which is again a very roundabout way to say that misogyny very much could still exist in this world because of the biases of its creator and the lack of evidence against it.

i'd actually argue that the existence of the brothel itself implies misogyny exists in the pidw/svsss world but that's neither here nor there.

anyway! a very long way to say shen jiu's original lecherous rumours very well may not have existed. and rather than the problem being her sexual life, it would be the disruption of social order (which can also be prosecuted under sodomy!). because i'm assuming with the reputation of the sect on the line and the seemingly accepted view of immortal cultivators as beyond earthly desires, the problem would be less with shen jiu's presumed salacious desires concerning her young female disciples but rather the disruption of these social norms put upon cultivators. but also sodomy wouldn't necessarily exist in this universe because of the lack of homophobia! so maybe the only rumours going around would be of shen jiu being a man-hating prude in comparison to her canon counterpart's more serious and lecherous accusations.

moving on!

relationships with people :

i feel that her relationships with the people around her would be changed, but only slightly. for example, with liu qingge, i recall that despite the two of them fighting and being at each other's throats most of the time, one of the most decisive moments for their rivalry/hatred of each other would have been when liu qingge dragged shen jiu out of the brothel and got in a fight over it. which i explained in the reasons above might not have been such a big deal now that shen jiu was a woman. but there would definitely still be animosity between them because of all the other usual reasons (mostly shen jiu's and liu qingge's attitudes and world views clashing).

which may even be exacerbating with shen jiu canonically being a woman in this verse! it's not stated too explicitly but i feel there is still like. a broader social acceptance of the fact that female disciples (ie ning yingying) need to be doted on and babied more. which could be misogyny in this universe rearing its head. so if you combine this with shen jiu's need to be strong while constantly lashing out at the world so she doesn't get taken advantage of in the way she was at the qiu mansion, you get a! very explosive, vindictive, delicate relationship that honestly probably fared worse than canon. i feel shen jiu would be twice as aggressive with men in this universe because of this perception of female disciples/cultivators. (i say cultivators but honestly i see less evidence of that here. maybe ning yingying was a fluke? though that begs the question of why there would be a peak of just female disciples if not for the existence of misogyny (specifically misogyny that affects cultivators as well) in this world!)

i think shen jiu's relationship with yue qingyuan would stay mostly the same. i don't have a lot to say about that, really. i think the devotion from yue qingyuan and shen jiu's hatred in return because of the misunderstandings between them is something that wouldn't be influenced by gender. though that could be a blindspot in my perception, hahaha.

there is a world where shen jiu is more aggressive with yue qingyuan for the same reason she's aggressive with liu qingge, though! maybe she sees his deference to her as something that is like. pity born of misogyny and mostly because yue qingyuan looks down on her on top of his guilt complex. in that shen jiu thinks that he assumes she's a weakling and thus needs his helping hand/his dismissal of her more abusive, violent and disruptive actions as a favour. i think maybe while they would grow up together and he might not necessarily ring the same alarm bells as other unfamiliar men for shen jiu, she would still be. slightly uncomfortable at the prospect of a man with so much authority over her paying her such attention. if that makes sense.

moving on, though!

qiu mansion and that whole mess :

take everything implied in canon and make it like. nine times worse. is the general vibe i get when considering that era of time in this au.

because! if i'm going off the baseline assumption that qiu jianluo is still attached to shen jiu and the implied sa that she faces still occurs here, i believe the arranged marriage would be made not between qiu haitang and shen jiu but qiu jianluo and shen jiu. which i feel would give him a lot more access to her as there would be little excuse for shen jiu to be hanging around qiu haitang as much as she did. though she would be roomed with the female servants in the house rather than the male ones, there is also the possibility that qiu jianluo would just repeatedly summon her into his room. though again, no homophobia in this verse means there's no reason for him not to do that in the canon, non genderbent verse, so things on that front might not change much.

the aftermath of the qiu mansion disaster though! i think that would be interesting to see. because i feel there is (unfortunately) a very different connotation between male slave forced to marry young woman of the household and female slave forced to marry young man of the household. while i don't know the legalities of it in this verse, i'm assuming based on the shen jiu's perceived crimes against ning yingying in pidw that this would be frowned upon. though it could also not be! because of the intersection of class dynamics and how technically, because shen jiu was a slave, she didn't really have rights in the first place.

either way, i think a lot of that trial was born out of shen jiu's deviation from social order/social norms and the issue of her engagement with qiu jianluo wouldn't be seen as a strike against her in this case. because i think people would have enough sense to see the power dynamics and lack of consent more clearly when confronted with a marriage between a teenaged female slave and a young male master. especially when compounded with the fact that the original charge of lecherous behaviour with ning yingying wouldn't carry much weight because of what i discussed concerning the brothels

the murders, though, i think she would be held responsible for that. there would definitely be a harsher view of that, i feel. mostly because like. it would be out of a woman's place to commit such bloody acts on top of it being such a violent crime? so there would be an argument to be made that in breaking social order by not being kind and deferential enough on top of going through with the murder of the men, she would be faced with harsher consequences.

simultaneously though there could be an in-universe argument made on the side of cang qiong mountain to claim insanity on shen jiu's part. similarly to how hysteria is seen mostly as a female malady and is a gendered/misogynistic diagnosis. but that's a whole other (mostly western centric, i feel) can of worms to get into. but just know for now that i think the hypothetical defences that cang qiong could give for the murder spree would also be misogynistic in nature.

ps. if you want to read about the female malady check out the introductory chapter of the female malady by elaine showalter.

shen yuan enters the narrative :

now i don't want this to get super long. so i will try very hard to keep this short. i think shen yuan would have a misogynistic viewpoint that would affect his understanding of his place in the plot when he is transmigrated into shen jiu's body.

i already went over the more meta aspects of shen yuan (who for the sake of clarity, i will say, is still a male in this au) and his experience travelling through the world in a female body. but i didn't discuss so much the narrative implications of it. because i think there would be! many!

for one, i think shen yuan would constantly underpin a lot of the interactions he has with the (male) peak lords/cultivators with his very heterosexual worldview. in the sense that he would assume there were romantic undertones where there weren't any, which i feel would be a baseline assumption he would make considering the supposed genre of the novel-brought-to-life he was living. we see so many times how shen yuan will look at a female character and immediately identify her as a part of luo binghe's harem. which i feel will carry over in his perception of shen jiu's lived experience as a woman. if that makes sense.

i also think. hm. how do i explain this. the way he would view his role when it came to any potential romance would be coloured severely by his modern understanding of shen qingqiu (assuming she was a lesbian, perhaps, because of her visiting brothels in pidw/her aversion for men) but also in relation to the people around her. i think he would only really see the possibility of a romance between liu qingge and shen qingqiu mostly because of the time they spend with each other in svsss and how he would assume that it would be the type of fan service airplane would indulge in for his very heterosexual audience of pidw fans. but as far as luo binghe is concerned, shen yuan would fall back very heavily on shen qingqiu's role as the scum villain to separate himself from any potential romance there. in the sense that he would focus so heavily on the teacher-student, antagonist-protagonist relationship between the two of them that he would? in a way. de-sexualize shen qingqiu entirely in his mind's eyes. so that the possibility of romance wouldn't even occur to him because narratively it wouldn't make sense for the hero to fall in love with the villain.

though that isn't to say luo binghe's love for shen qingqiu would be contingent upon gender. there exists a world where luo binghe is still attracted to women but doesn't necessarily create the harem and still only wants his shizun. i feel that the harem, while in a meta sense fed into the male power-fantasy of pidw, also was only like. a way for luo bingge to fill a gap in his lonely life. while this luo binghe would still need that gap in his life filled, he would only need to fill it with shen qingqiu's love because the way he would be treated by shen qingqiu in his youth wouldn't suddenly make him want all women. (because it definitely doesn't make him want all men in svsss). rather it would just make him want shen qingqiu.

all the while shen yuan would assume that luo binghe still wanted to kill him or when he does realize luo binghe's feelings, assume that luo binghe was only looking for a woman to fuck, to put it crudely. which would be cleared up during maigu ridge (specifically thinking about the canon detail of shen yuan turning his back to luo binghe only for luo binghe to turn him around. which i've seen someone analyze as shen yuan assuming luo binghe just wanted anyone while luo binghe wanted shen yuan specifically).

which. very roundabout way to say that i think shen yuan's obliviousness would manifest in different ways and his misunderstandings of the world around him would be because of his somewhat misogynistic viewpoints and desexualization of shen qingqiu to boil themselves down to simply 'scum villain' and 'antagonist.'

anyway that is. most of what i've been thinking about when it comes to this au. i hope this wasn't too tangential or didn't make sense because i am telling you now that i did not proof read it. i wrote this in one sitting and i will, in fact, be posting it as soon as i finish typing this lil outro. but if it did make sense then! i hope you found the more in-depth narrative and meta things i lined out here interesting. i know i did when putting this together!

I've seen quite a few Transmigration type stories, but I've haven't seen many that play with the idea of the MC not treating the other characters as real distinct people quite to the extent I've seen in SVSSS (note this is from what I've read/watched, there are definitely books out there with this trope I haven't read)

This aspect of his character often leads to him not realising how he affects the world and the characters and how much his mere presence vastly changes the plot (Eg: Saving Liu Qingge, Being Kind to Luo Binghe, Saving Ning Yingying and Liu Mingyan from their Novel-Fates)

While we as readers can joke about how oblivious Shen Yuan is to not realise his impact on the world, how oblivious he is to other characters' opinions on him, but I feel like it's a pretty reasonable response when you think about the fact that he regularly gets reminded of the fact that the world is based on a novel he read.

He firsts dies while reading PIDW and then proceeds to end up in the body of the Scum Villain Shizun who abused Luo Binghe before eventually being punished by having all his limbs being cut off and Yue Qingyuan dying trying to save him, add on the fact that for he has to act 'In-Character' as Shen Qingqiu until he unlocks 'OOC'.

Imagine facing this realisation straight after finding out you died.

Shen Yuan is a unique case in the sense he apparently already somewhat mentally prepared himself in his Past Life for what he would do in Transmigration.

Shen Yuan is already different than the average person to the extent that he was at least somewhat prepared mentally.

The soon after, he discovers the System.

A fact I want to acknowledge is the way the System talks throughout the book — Often using 'Gaming' Words or Words we associate with Games.

It has a Point System which Shen Yuan can use to get things, it punishes Shen Yuan for not doing what it wants him to do, it regularly calls events 'Plot' and '____ Arc', things we associate with TV shows, Movies, Books, and Games. It even gives him a tutorial mission he has to finish in order to get a special reward which would make the rest of his 'gameplay' easiler (Get to act OOC)

Various Characters also have Special Points regarding their emotions and or feelings, with Shen Yuan being able to "Improve this characters opinion on him" and "Increase Protagonist's Satisfaction Points!".

Luo Binghe being clearly designated as the Golden Protagonist who cannot be harmed fatally by the plot makes the situation worse as Shen Yuan's mind is constantly being reminded of Luo Binghe's role in this world.

Due to the System, Shen Yuan is forced to push Luo Binghe into the endless abyss, cementing his fate in his mind because — "Luo Binghe will certainly murder his Scum of a teacher now!" — not recognising yet how much his care and teaching of Luo Binghe has impacted him.

Now add in the inherent complexities of Original! Shen Qingqiu, someone who's backstory was hidden in PIDW and didn't have someone who truly understood him in his own world/Sect. Shen Yuan, for as much as we can praise him for many different things, has a flaw of assuming characters will act exactly as they are written in the novel without accounting for changes.

He doesn't realise the true reality of how complex Original! Shen Qingqiu was as a person as he interacts with Yue Qingyuan.

To him, Original! Shen Qingqiu was a one-note Villain until Shen Yuan finally does get to see Original! Shen Qingqiu's backstory.

I've seen many complaining that Shen Yuan doesn't feel sympathetic enough to Shen Jiu after finding out his past, but after analysing some points in the novel, I feel like it makes sense. I don't necessarily like it, but it makes sense.

Shen Yuan's journey throughout the novel is learning to accept Luo Binghe as a living breathing person who he loves. He has to separate Luo Bing(mei) from his original Novel Countertop (Luo Bingge).

We face his lows and highs during his novel as he learns his mistakes in treating various characters as mere novel characters and not as people.

Tianlang jun is the equivalent of a melodramatic theatre kid and zhuzhi lang is just like, "that was lovely dear" as he takes off tianlang jun's shoes, or pays for his latest splurge.

There's also something extremely gut wrenching abt their dynamic like what is, "tell me what must i do to crush your self esteem? To make you lose heart and give up on me - so that you'll leave?" AND TELL ME WHY IT ONLY REMINDS ME OF LIU QINGGE GOING BACK TO FIGHT LUO BINGHE EVERY DAY FOR 5 YEARS TO BRING SQQ's BODY BACK WITH HIM???

the implication if you really think about it is very similar - the basis or drive for both zhuzhi lang and liu qingge is quite similar where you have to extend kindness to them once and they'll both give it back to you ten-fold. That was their dynamic with SQQ, he saved both of them, and they both strictly follow their principles. The difference between Liu Qingge and Zhuzhi lang is their standard or definition of kindness - which is generally, largely dictated by the life you have led, which in turn dictates which of your actions are acts of kindness.

For example, Liu Qingge is extremely loyal, he will be there for SQQ at the drop of a hat, all he has to do is call him and he'll be there without any delays, he helps SQQ when he was struggling with without a cure, and sought him out during the years he spent wandering too, he looked out for SQQ in a way he understood and in a way that allowed SQQ to rely on him. Liu Qingge is reliable, trustworthy and consistent in his actions. He honors people, especially the ones he holds in great respect which is a big part of why he went to fight Luo Binghe every. single. day. for 5 years.

Ok so most of us already know the meaning of SY 'cause it's in the appendix of the official translation books but I was today years old when I realised just how much meaning MXTX embedded into this name. *spoilers ahead*

Level 1 Meta

Official translation of the word Yuan垣 means wall. But not just any wall, a wall that surrounds something else. It would be specifically used to describe city wall 城垣 or garden fence 花垣 would use this character. This is incredibly fitting for Shen Yuan because his whole story arc is his battle between his logical conscience for survival and his compassionate gut instinct to protect LBH, in other words, to surround and to shield LBH from harm. But this wall of protection functioned against Bingqiu psychologically because SY kept on making decisions without talking to LBH and decided a lot of things on his own. SVSSS is a novel about achieving that balance, to allow both partners to take agency and face life side by side.

Level 2 Meta

Normally, surnames don't have any meaning. Shen沈 is largely used as a name for things/people buttttttt it can also mean liquid or to pour. Guess what, Luo Binghe 洛冰河 means Luo frozen river. So it could be interpreted that Shen Yuan's entire job in the novel is to make LBH achieve his final crybaby form by getting the frozen river Luo to melt, to "pour".

Also, SY made himself melt as well in a way, his internalized homophobia potential toxic masculinity as well as his need to maintain a cool composure were also things he needed to overcome. We finally see him cry for real in the 3rd book, right after LBH scolds him out of anger and worry. Our protagonist learns to break his own walls down and show emotionally vulnerable parts of himself to LBH.

Level 3 Meta

Chinese characters are made up of radicals, meaning more complicated looking characters are made up of simpler characters (radicals) that give clues to their meaning and pronunciation.

Shen沈 is made up of the radicals:

氵 [ shuǐ ] water 💦

冘 [ yín ] can mean to move on OR doubtful of something/someone

The water radical氵💦 occurs in all three characters in Luo Binghe 洛冰河. This can mean that Shen has influence on Luo Binghe's development and overall life. It also reaffirms their compatibility as as couple. I mean let’s be honest, SQQ cries inwardly and LBH cries outwardly, they are both crybabies.

yín冘 perfect describes the base functionality of SY's character; he has a strong survival instinct but is also extremely doubtful of everyone's intentions, especially LBH's.

Yuan垣 is made up of the radicals:

土 [ tǔ ] soil, earth; items made of earth 🌎

亘 [ gèn ] to extend across (dimension/space), through; from 🚀

I find it so fucking funny that MXTX took the tǔ土 soil radical seriously and literally just had SY zombie-himself out of the dirt after 5 years. But it's also really poetic that it once again goes perfectly with LBH's name; the river and earth go hand-in-hand. no wonder LBH asked for Shizun's hand in marriage. 😳😳😳

gèn亘 perfectly describes SY as a transmigrator, someone who travelled across dimension and space. But also SY is really the ultimate sightseer of SVSSS, casually crossing between the human realm and demon realm while also going on road trips with SQH. It's honestly so fucking mint. But I'm here to point out to you how Xin Mo 心魔 LBH's sword (heart demon) is how LBH travels across dimension/space for the majority of the book.

Ultimately, Yuan垣 highlights the importance of finding a home in the people you love. Bingqiu both enjoy that sightseeing lifestyle but the book constantly has important relationship developments, smexy times and domestic Bingqiu set in the Bamboo House. Ultimately, no matter how far you travel, run or chase, you cannot get away from your problems. You need to extend and make effort in understanding and communicating with your SO 🚀 and work on feeling grounded 🌎 in your relationship together.