#riverdragon

It's very hard to get a proper reading on Alys' character because she is tied with the supernatural and the maesters writing the histories do not understand and tend to dismiss magic. She is supposed to be twice (or thrice??) Aemond's age, but looks unusually young. Is she just a MILF with a good skin care routine? Is she a fire priestess like Melisandre? Can she even get pregnant anymore? Does she conceive the child via magic?

Their dynamic is also open to discussion. Aemond puts House Strong to the sword, but spares Alys. What does she feel about this? Some of those children must have been in her care; she must have breastfed them herself. Is it true that she gave them up willingly? Did she betray them because she was afraid? Did she give them up because she hated them and felt mistreated by them? Did Aemond abuse his power differential in regards to her? Is Alys the one actually manipulating Aemond here?

In any case, Aemond's relationship with Alys is a norm-transgression. This is where I disagree with the majority of green takes on Aemond. By entering in a relationship with Alys, he disrespects his betrothal with the Baratheon girl. Green Knights like to argue that dutiful Aemond would lawfully marry Alys, so that their child wouldn't be born a bastard, but the text isn't clear on whether this actually happened. I would counterpoint that Aemond marrying Alys makes things even worse. The reality is that he can get away with having bastards because he is a man. If he marries her, he completely breaks off the Baratheon pact, bamboozles his brother's alliance with an important military player and effectively endangers the lives of his family by making them vulnerable to a Baratheon coup.

We joke about Robb being irresponsible with Jeyne Westerling, breaking his betrothal and ultimately contributing to his own downfall. We should extend the same type of criticism to Aemond. Bear in mind that, as compensation, Robb offered Walder Frey another very profitable marriage pact. Edmure was not just Some Guy, he was the Lord of Riverrun and Walder Frey's liege lord. And, yet, Walder Frey still orchestrated the Red Wedding in revenge. He wasn't content with Edmure, he wanted the King as his brother-in-law, as promised.

Similarly, the Baratheons were promised Aemond, the second son, with the biggest dragon. Would they settle for Daeron, the third son? Maybe, maybe not. But what about the shame of one of the Four Storms being set aside for a bastard wet nurse? Rhaenyra also has sons they can request for betrothals. This is why Alicent moves quickly after Aemond's and Helaena's deaths to betroth Aegon to Cassandra Baratheon. They are important military allies they need to keep no matter what.

From a story writing standpoint, by introducing Aemond's and Alys' relationship, the author places Aemond on a slippery slope towards the point-of-no-return. Aemond cannot come back from the God's Eye now, because there is no place for him in the narrative anymore. He cannot reunite with his family, because he would have to set Alys aside and marry the Baratheon girl. That is impossible, because his obsession with her becomes all-consuming. He is effectively snatched away from his own story by the paranormal. Alys is a witch with a terrifying aura about her; as an extension of the supernatural, she cannot be contained within the Red Keep as Aemond's mistress.

Their relationship signals the beginning of the end for Aemond. It traps him in a limbo from which he cannot exit, but also cannot go on indefinitely. His arc can only end with Daemon and Caraxes.

My reading of Aemond is that he is a person struggling with his sense of duty, after keeping to his principles and to societal rules for so long. He receives no compensation. He loses an eye and is denied justice. He becomes more suited than Aegon for kingship, but it is all in vain, because unworthy Aegon will always be ahead of him in the line of succession. Aemond has followed the rulebook to a tee, only to end up feeling slighted and disregarded.

The one time he unleashes his buried feelings of injustice and rage, he loses control of Vhagar, kills Luke and inadvertently starts the war. He will blame himself for Blood & Cheese, for causing his family unimaginable pain, for crushing his sister's soul. He will spiral and lose impulse control and drown before he can save himself.

I'm curious what do you think Daeron and Alicent’s relationship was like because I see some say that Alicent probably didn't care much about her youngest son, and that's why She sent him to Oldtown personally I feel like that's not completely true because in westeros it was common to send your son's to be a Lord's ward and Daeron was 12 i think when he's sent away so he's not a baby by westeros standards lol

Also what do you think would have happened if either Daeron or Aemond lived ?

hi & thanks! hope you are doing well, too🍒 honestly, this "alicent doesn't like daeron / is ashamed of him" narrative is pure fanon, thought up by people who maybe don't really understand the medieval ward system. fans are free to imagine what scenarios they want but there's no support for that in the text. as i've said before, sending daeron to oldtown is not a punishment.

if either daeron or aemond survived, then it complicates the succession after the dance bc it would go jaehaera -> daeron/aemond -> aegon, son of daemyra. i've argued before that it makes no sense for the greens to disregard jaehaera. she's their elizabeth of york and also has a dragon, which is not a given for targaryen princesses (check out how many of jaehaerys' daughters did not have dragons). she's important. there's more in my jaehaera tag, as well as my thoughts on giving her a mental disability as a narrative get-out-of-jail-free card.

anyway, with a surviving green targaryen male, there's no way aegon the younger gets to ascend, save for the complete military obliteration of the targtowers. but now you have conflicting claims between the greens. jaehaera becoming queen is in accordance with andal law (a daughter comes before an uncle) but she's also a child and vulnerable. she's the only remaining targaryen girl and has also lost both of her brothers who could have served as her future husband. so imo it would make sense to marry her off to her surviving uncle.

now, this gets further complicated by aemond's relationship with alys and his betrothal to the unnamed baratheon girl. whether he married alys or fathered a child with her is not presented as historical fact by westerosi historians. the show will obviously have to choose one option because aemond can't exist on screen in a state of quantum uncertainty. but that doesn't change the FACT that it's left ambiguous in the books. anyway. if he got married, it's a marriage without documents and witnesses, so the legality of it is up in the air. how a fic writer exploring this scenario chooses to resolve this is up to them, but they should bear in mind that the nobles / allies of the greens would not easily accept a bastard nurse as their queen / the prince regent's wife. again, ship what you want, but romance =/= political wisdom & stability. imo the politically savvy choice in accordance with targaryen customs in the asoiaf universe would be to just marry jaehaera and compensate the baratheons in some other way for breaking the betrothal.

ofc with daeron it's all easier bc he's unmarried

Thank you for pointing out Aemond's duty to his Baratheon betrothed. You're actually one of the very few Green bloggers who do so. For some reasons most forget, or pretend to, about this which is…very telling! I also hate the theory that Aemond will stop caring about duty after Storm's End and B&C. Although not impossible like you've mentioned, for Aemond to act as if he can go and do anything is very child like behavior and feels like it would be really bad characterization and, at least in my opinion, will make him really, really unlikable as a person. No matter how awful he will be feeling about himself, his remaining family still depends on him honoring his promise to the Baratheons. It's literally a matter of life and death, he can't just say "Fuck duty, fuck everyone, I will be marrying Alys because I can and want to" and expect no consequences, especially militarily. Why should the Baratheons accept such an insult? Having bastards is one thing, he would very easily get away with it being a man, but marrying a bastard servant twice his age? Do these people think he can marry Alys and, if he wins his battle against Daemon, return with her as his wife to King's Landing afterwards? Do they think the remaining lords should simply accept it?

I'm not kidding, if they go with this interpretation, with Aemond not giving a fuck anymore, I will only 100% ship him with Dark Sister. I'm not sure I can bear how insufferable antis will become if Aemond will be leaving his remaining family's fates to the Blacks for a woman, because this is what the whole affair would essentially be even if they will claim it to be a tragic love story and go after anyone else who disagree as they're doing right now. And I hate even more how the same people who use the duty BS argument against Helaemond claim that he married Alys BECAUSE he is DUTIFUL and didn't want their kid to be a bastard. It's just baffling. The hypocrisy is amazing. Yeah, I get it, we should like it because love >>> duty and Aemond still became a kinslayer despite following his duty so why he should care about it anymore? but regardless, these people we are talking about are royals whose actions have deep repercussions across the entire realm. They can't do whatever they want even if it's in the name of love.

Also the idea that we should protect Helaegon from the infidelity allegations when show!Aegon is out there cheating (and raping women) on Helaena is just sick, and dare I say misogynistic. It's simply insane to expect her to stay faithful to him no matter what, especially if there is someone out there who genuinely loves her and vice-versa. Why is it that every time a situation like this comes up (the man cheating with other women) it is ALWAYS on the wife to remain faithful?

I have to say that this post had me in stitches, so thank you for that. I basically agree with everything you've said, love the passion & also, you're going to love this, because I was on Four Storms alert ever since my first Aemond/Alys post. [For any new visitors, there's more in my tag + this particular post that delves some of the points anon is talking about, with contributions from many other friendly voices. Also, ofc, my Maris/Aemond cinematic universe. Alrite, enough shameless self-promotion].

Yeah, the idea that we should protect the sanctity of the helaegon marriage never really sat right with me when Aegon is out there cheating left and right and Aemond is making the beast with two backs with a random woman he's known for 5 minutes. Meanwhile Helaena is subjected to indescribable trauma and gets a horrific ending, but she's not even allowed some measure of reprieve after the showrunners made sure to depict even her book!decent!marriage as sketchy. Personally, this concept of unconsummated courtly love rings rather too flavourless to my ears, as well - what can I say. To each their own, but it's kind of unfair to Helaena.

A further observation I would like to make is that I, too, often find this discourse on Aemond's sense of duty lacking, because many fans seem to treat duty like a switch. "Aemond is dutiful up to X point in this linear timeline I've decided upon (and any alternative interpretation is blasphemy and should be vigorously suppressed), after which his sense of duty completely dissipates because I need to make his relationship with Alys ~romantic~ and he basically doesn't give a shit about his family or political responsibilities anymore." I actually think helaemonds have the right of this, because they're always more likely to paint Aemond as a conflicted figure, consumed by a very byronic inner turmoil, who's always teetering on the edge of doing what's right by his family vs experiencing the freedom of giving into his own desires for once. It is within that precarious balancing act that you can build the most compelling dark princely figure that makes the girlies' hearts a-flutter! Whereas the first interpretation feels very robotic and soulless to me, yes, perhaps even shippable with Dark Sister.