#rhotics

Lauren: I get a bit over-enthusiastic with putting it in there for sure.

Gretchen: The nice thing is, is because this feature of English accents where some of them do pronounce the Rs after the vowels and some of them don’t is a feature of English accents that is one of the big accent splits that we have in English. We also don’t have to listen to me trying to do the bad impression of non-rhotic people saying, “/a/, /a/ and /a/-like sounds.”

Lauren: Our entire podcasting collaboration has really led up to this episode. This is entirely what our accent distribution was made for.

Gretchen: It was totally made for this. It’s a really salient feature across English accents that some of them do have this R after a vowel – “post-vocalic R” – and some of them don’t. In English, that’s what gets called “rhoticity.” Is this accent rhotic like mine or is it non-rhotic like yours?

Lauren: The class of R-like sounds is something we’ll be talking about all episode because it’s a bit of a grab bag both within English and across languages more broadly.

Gretchen: What exactly we mean by an R-like sound is one of those nebulous, squishy categories that it seems like it makes sense and then you look at it too hard and then it stops making sense and then you realise that you can drift your mind into soft focus and have it make sense again. One of the things that I enjoyed learning about English accents is how is it that in Canada we have this R and down in Australia you don’t have it. Where does that come from?

Lauren: It’s a really nice example of how migration creates these little accent time capsules. The R sound is something that’s very easy to lose from the ends of words. Across languages this happens. It’s a very easy target for something to get lost. It was far more common in England four centuries ago when a lot of people migrated. The areas that people migrated from in England and the British Isles and the United Kingdom, more generally, people migrated to what is now the United States and Canada. They had more of this R at the end of words as a feature. Then a couple of centuries later, when the colonists arrived in Australia from the United Kingdom, that feature was far less common there. You don’t find it in Australian or New Zealand accents, but you do find it in those North American accents more predominantly. Not always – but as a general feature. You have this really nice time capsule just because the migrants came a couple of centuries earlier to the US than they did to Australia.

Gretchen: It’s a neat – I mean, there are, obviously, historical records of when all this migration was happening, but it’s comforting to know that if we didn’t have those historical records, we would be able to reconstruct them from the accents.

Lauren: Yeah. Or if we didn’t have those records and, for some reason, the lack of R was also really common in North America, we have the written record in English to show us that there is an R at the end of words like “car” that there isn’t in some other words. As someone who doesn’t have this feature, sometimes, if I’m trying to put on a North American accent, I over apply it to words where there isn’t an R in writing as well. I recently tried to say the word, “tuna,” the fish, with an American accent and over compensated and went with “tunar,” which is absolutely not correct and also a terrible accent.

Gretchen: Also, that’s a piano tuner or something.

Lauren: Oh, yeah, a “tuner” that you tune a piano with – it sounds exactly the same for me, but it’s a completely different spelling and a completely different word.

Gretchen: Well, and the interesting thing is, I do have Rs in my accent, but I’m also very accustomed to hearing non-rhotic accents because I think I’ve listened to more Australian English in the last, say, five years or so because, you know, we talk to each other quite a lot doing this podcast. I visited Australia. But even before that, I’d consume plenty of British media and stuff like that, which a lot of the British accents are non-rhotic, but some of them are still rhotic, especially in the North and in Scotland and so on. I consumed a lot of non-rhotic accents, so I’m using to hearing it. In many cases, if you’re used to hearing those accents, you don’t even necessarily notice it as, “Oh, there aren’t Rs here,” you notice it, “This just sounds like it’s from wherever.” But sometimes when I’m hearing a non-rhotic speaker, I over apply, and I insert, mentally, Rs in what they’re trying to say even when they aren’t trying to say an R because I’m so used to reconstructing that R in my head.

Lauren: Amazing. You just hallucinate sound is basically what’s happening.

Gretchen: Yeah! A non-rhotic friend of mine was recently talking about lava, like the thing that comes out from the earth in a volcano, but saying, “There’s a lot of lava here.” I misheard her as saying, “larva.”

Lauren: As in bug babies?

Gretchen: Yes, as in bug babies, which is a very different mental image from molten rock.

Lauren: Especially if you think of them spewing out of the earth like a volcano. That’s actually terrifying.

Gretchen: It’s kind of horrific. But yeah, sometimes it happens on both the production and the perception side. Sometimes you can hear an R that isn’t there or hear a ghost of an R that wasn’t there, or you can end up producing it when you weren’t trying to.

Lauren: I think it is really interesting that, obviously, I consume a lot of Australian media. You hear a lot of Canadian voices. The two big producers of culture for that anglosphere, English speakers, is that Southern England English and the North American English. One in England is traditionally marked with not having R at the end of words pronounced, and American English does have that R. It’s very rhotic. We’re exposed to both types very commonly, which is why I think it’s hard to hear or remember that you’re hearing it.

Gretchen: I think it’s interesting to think about this in terms of the prestige varieties in both of these places because there are American accents that are non-rhotic. In the American South, a lot of the accents don’t have that R at the end of the syllable. There are British accents that are rhotic, especially in the north. The prestigious accent that you find on media and television, unless a character is being stereotyped as having an accent, the unmarked accent that you see on both of these is different with respect to that R. This was something that was one of those early revelations that I had as a budding linguist of like, hey, here’s this R. In one country it’s having the R that’s prestigious and it’s not having the R that’s looked down on. Then in the other country, it’s not having the R that’s prestigious and it’s having the R that’s more stigmatised. Clearly, it’s not R’s fault here. R is just a consonant just trying to live its life.

Lauren: Just a hapless victim.

Gretchen: A hapless victim of our human prejudices. There’s not some sort of objective right or wrong answer of, “Is R good or is R bad?” Other things that are associated with particular accents are also neutral variables, but some of them are widely disparaged all over and some of them are widely prestigious all over. This one is interesting, in the case of R, because it has this local difference on whether it’s prestigious or not prestigious.

Lauren: It’s made it a really attractive topic of study for linguists who are interested in the social values that we apply to different accents. One thing I find particularly interesting in the American context where this has been studied quite a lot is that it’s not just a matter of whether you have a rhotic accent or not. There are lots of people who can produce the rhotic accent and do include that R at the end of words or might not depending on the social context and how fancy they want to sound. Which means that we get to talk about probably one of the most famous studies in English sociolinguistics.

Gretchen: Yes. There is this very classic study by Bill Labov who is an American sociolinguist. He went to three different levels of department stores – one that was very fancy, one that was mid-level, and one that was like a bargain basement store. You really get a feeling for the vintage department store vibe. He found the location of something – I think the women’s shoe section is what he says in the paper – that was already on the fourth floor. He would find it on the map, and then he would go up to sales keepers and say, “Hey, can you tell me where to find the women’s shoes?”, and they would say, “fourth floor.” And he would say, “Pardon me?”

Lauren: Or they would say, /fɑ:ð flɑː/.

Gretchen: Yes, /fæːð flæ:/, in my bad imitation of a New York accent. He would say, “Pardon me?”, and then they would say it again, more distinctly. Then he would go around the corner, whip out his notebook, and write down whether or not they said the R in both the first one – the natural one – and then the careful-er, more enunciated one afterwards.

Lauren: You could more or less map the fancier the department store, the more likely the salesperson was to use the rhotic R. If you asked someone to repeat something, it then becomes careful speech, where they’re trying to be as articulate as possible, for whatever that means, and they’re more likely to include an R in that context as well. You see all these factors really elegantly. I think this study is attractive because it’s so elegant in how it was set up that people are more likely to use an R to sound fancy in New York in this context. It’s been replicated over decades. People have moved more towards R, and it’s become the concrete standard of pronunciation.

Gretchen: Also, I think it’s just such a fun mental image of some guy with a notebook wandering around from department store to department store. When we were doing Crash Course Linguistics, one of the thought bubbles, which are little animated bits, we actually suggested, and they took our suggestion, that they do a little animated Labov wandering from department store to department store. That’s a really cute animation that you can now watch.

Lauren: It also means that the concept of the fourth floor has become a bit of a linguist in-joke. I am so pleased to say that my office at work is on the fourth floor.

Gretchen: I went to a Linguistic Society of America conference a number of years ago in which all of the conference rooms at the hotel where on the fourth floor. You could just hear all the linguists taking delight in saying to each other, “Which way to the conference?”, “Go to the FOURTH FLOOR.”

Lauren: You could not have planned that better.

Gretchen: It’s also a bit of a meme in linguistics that stuff happens on the fourth floor. It’s a fairly salient thing about English accents that they do different things with Rs. There’s also downstream effects of what happens when your accent only sometimes has this R.

Lauren: Yes. Even though I say that I don’t have an R at the end of words, if you were to actually monitor my speech very carefully and do all the fancy phonetician sound analysis things or even just use your ears, I have R popping up at the end of words all the time in the context known as “linking” or “obtrusive R,” which is where you get a word that should have an R at the end, and then you have another word that begins with a vowel.

Gretchen: Because your Rs are only dropped when they’re at the end of a syllable, when they’re after a vowel, if there’s another vowel following, they can become the host for that R, then you don’t need to drop it anymore.

Lauren: If I said something like, “ca-r and /dɹɑɪvə/,” or “pasta-r and sauce” – it can even go in where there wouldn’t be an R. I guess if I said something like, “tuna-r and rice.”

Gretchen: There’s a bit of an R there, whereas I have “tuna and rice” and there’s nothing R-like there because, for me, “tuna” and “tuner” – “tuner” and “player” or something like that – those are totally different.

Lauren: It’s a way for my accent to mark the boundary between words in a way that works even though I can’t say an R at the end of a word without trying very hard.

Gretchen: Very “harrrrd.”

Lauren: In English. I should say R at the end of words is a feature of Nepali, and I can do that fine. I don’t think about it in Nepali, and I don’t think about it in English, but I have to put an R there. I have to work so hard in English.

Gretchen: So “harrrrd.”

Lauren: So “harrrrd.”

Gretchen: It’s something that stands out more strongly if you’re a non-rhotic speaker because, to me, I’m always paying attention to that R when it’s after a vowel. Having it show up in “pasta-r and sauce” or “tuna-r and rice,” that’s very salient to me as opposed to just being a thing you could stick between stuff. There’s also, sometimes, this R or lack of R shows up in certain stereotyped pronunciations of things. I’m thinking, you know that song in The Sound of Music where you’re learning the names of the notes – do re mi fa so la ti do – and they have this bit that’s like, “Fa – a long, long way to run”?

Lauren: Yeah, because it’s “/fɑ:/ – a long, long way to run.” You’re running /fɑ:/.

Gretchen: No, you’re running “far.”

Lauren: Hang on, yeah, because “far” in that song is F-A.

Gretchen: It’s F-A.

Lauren: I guess it’s a homophone, but it’s not a homograph. They’re not written the same. It’s a homophone for me but not for you.

Gretchen: It’s a homophone for, clearly, the writers of this song. As a child I was like, “What word are they trying to get me to say?” Because something like “ti – a drink with jam and bread,” that’s fine. I don’t write those the same, but I still pronounce it /ti/.

Lauren: Also, not spelled the same, yes.

Gretchen: I still pronounce it “/ti/”, we’re okay with one that. But “Fa – a long, long way to run,” I had to stop and think and be like, “What word are they trying to get at here?”

Lauren: One of those classic scenarios of a bunch of supposed German speakers in German singing a song that only – the whole song actually falls apart because they’re English homophones –

Gretchen: None of these are German words. They’re in Austria. Why are they singing all these English rhymes? It’s like you find the ancient inscription in the cave, and somehow you translate this poem into English, and it rhymes perfectly in English, and you’re like, “This was written in Sumerian. Like, what?”

Lauren: This is why we’re super fun to watch films with.

Gretchen: It’s like, “How does this song work in English? They’re speaking German!”

Lauren: This reminds me of another thing I have confounded you with in non-rhotic English, which is that because I don’t pronounce the R, I can use A-R-G-H to represent an excited exclamation of like, “AH!”

Gretchen: Oh, no.

Lauren: I have, on occasion, used this at Gretchen as a form of messaging enthusiasm. Gretchen has seen it as like I am –

Gretchen: Like, “ARGH I got ice cream!” It’s like, “Why are you upset about the ice cream? I thought ice cream was nice.”

Lauren: It turns out what we have completely different readings of this because, in my non-rhotic accent, it has way more of a general exclamatory-ness. What do you read “Argh” or “Arrr” as?

Gretchen: It’s an expression of frustration for me. Like, “Arrrgh, I don’t wanna do this,” or “Arrrgh, I got a flat tire,” or something. Not “Arrrgh, I got free ice cream.”

Lauren: I can use it in a much more broad range of contexts. Maybe this is just me. Maybe this is some idiosyncratic usage.

Gretchen: But like, A-H, “Ah!” I have a broader range of contexts for, but it is very distinct from “Argh.”

Lauren: I would have to say something like, “AH, I got ice cream,” A-H?

Gretchen: Yeah. This is fine.

Lauren: Okay.

Gretchen: I had this experience when I was reading, especially, British children’s fiction or British YA. The characters would say things like, “erm” and “er.” I was like, okay, fine, “Er, I don’t know where this is” or “Erm, I don’t know the answer.” I was like, “That’s just what they say in British. Sure. That’s fine.” How would you pronounce “erm” and “er”?

Lauren: They say /ə/ and /ə:m/. “Erm, let me think about that I, er, don’t know.” I do know. Exactly like that.

Gretchen: I didn’t realise until much, much later that this was just a rhotic description of the pronunciation that I would write “um” and “uh” – U-M and U-H.

Lauren: I guess this is one context where audiobooks read by someone who has the same general rhoticity as the original author would be very handy.

Gretchen: Yeah. Because I think, among me and at least some other nerds of my generation, sometimes I do write, “er,” when I’m in text because, to me, it has a slightly different meaning from “uh” because I encountered it in text.

Lauren: Amazing.

Gretchen: But the best one of you read something and it’s written for an accent that’s not your accent is – you know the donkey character in Winne the Pooh?

Lauren: Eeyore?

Gretchen: Yeah. As I would say, /ijoɹ/, because there’s an R in the writing there. I didn’t learn until I was well into my 20s that, of course, A. A. Milne was a non-rhotic speaker, and he would’ve pronounced that donkey /iɑ:/, like the sound a donkey makes.

Lauren: Mm-hmm.

Gretchen: This is a massive revelation for me, and you’re just like, “Yeah, I’ve known this my entire life.”

Lauren: Uh, yes, because donkeys have a non-rhotic accent. I thought that was obvious to everyone.

Gretchen: [Laughs] Donkeys don’t have Rs. A lot of these particular Rs that we’re talking about are specifically the R at the end of a syllable or the, what linguists call, “R-coloured vowels.” It’s a vowel and it’s an R smooshed together. This is how I would say the name of the letter R – it’s not /a: ɹ/ – it’s all one /aɹ/, all one thing. Or /ɹ̩/ like in “tuner” or “player” or “maker” or any of these words that end in /ɹ̩/.

Lauren: If you were writing it down in a specific phonetic notation, you wouldn’t have a vowel and then a distinct R there together.

Gretchen: Yeah. Sometimes, there’s a bit of gradience in terms of how you do that. If you think of something like, say I’m saying a single syllable that ends in an unambiguous consonant like /æt/, I have two different things going on in my mouth at the same time. I have the /a/ part and then immediately after that I have my mouth closing to make the T. But for R, or /ɹ̩/, my mouth is staying in the same position. I can just make the /ɹ̩/ – I can make the vowel and the R-ness of it at the same time without having to change my tongue position or anything about my mouth position. That’s what it means when a vowel can have R features on it at the same time or be R-coloured.

Lauren: That’s why we also hedge by talking about “R-like sounds” because it’s not that this is separately and by itself the sound /aɹ/ but that it has this influence over the vowel.

Gretchen: It’s got this influence over the vowel, especially when it’s written as coming after it. If you have something like “raw” or “ray,” “re-,” you do have “ra-”– you do have a movement from the R at the beginning to afterwards. That’s why it’s so easy to drop that R after a vowel because it’s already just a slightly different position for how you’re holding that vowel. R-coloured vowels are a thing that everyone taking intro English linguistics learns about because it’s a thing that we have in English – and I haven’t learned any other languages that have them. But you never know what that means about your language typology.

Lauren: Whether this is some super common phenomenon and you just happen to have not learnt a language with it or whether it’s just a weird North American thing.

Gretchen: Yeah, not even all of English. It turns out that R-coloured vowels are both very rare and very common depending on how you measure commonness.

Lauren: That’s because they also turn up in a couple of the more dominant varieties of Mandarin. This is one of those things that it was really nice to be able to put a name to, but I realised that I had been using this R-coloured-ness to help myself distinguish between whether I was likely overhearing Mandarin or spoken Cantonese because this R-colouring is really common – especially in really major dialects like Beijing and other Northern Chinese varieties of spoken Mandarin.

Gretchen: On the one hand, R-coloured vowels occur in less than 1% of the languages of the world, at least as we’re currently able to measure them.

Lauren: In terms of the speakers.

Gretchen: But they occur in two of the most widely spoken languages – right. North American English or certain varieties of English and certain varieties of Chinese, both of which have millions and millions of speakers.

Lauren: And are really common as the prestige types in media as well.

Gretchen: And are a really common second language. There are also R-coloured vowels in Quebec French where you have /ɹ̩/ a bit more – now that I’m thinking about it – is more a feature of Quebec French than in France French, and in some varieties of Brazilian Portuguese and, you know, a few other languages, a few Indigenous languages like Yurok in the US. There is a whole name for this phenomenon in Chinese because it’s common in Mandarin. It’s called, “érhuàyīn” [simplified Chinese: 儿化音; traditional Chinese: 兒化音]. It works differently to how rhotacisation works in English because it’s obligatory in certain contexts in English, whereas the way that it happens in Mandarin is – like other things, I don’t speak this, so I’m not exactly sure what the details are – but apparently, it’s used by speakers to notice people from different varieties.

Lauren: It’s so interesting that it was a feature I had been attracted to in Mandarin, and you had noticed without particularly noticing in Quebec French until we put together this episode and realised we were attending to the same phenomenon of R-colouring.

Gretchen: This gets us into this broader class of R-like sounds. Linguists talk about “rhotics,” but if you learned languages beyond English, really any language other than English, you’ve probably learned a different way to produce those particular R sounds because like, “Oh, this language has yet a different R.” It’s one of those interestingly nebulous bits of linguistics that people seem to share this very strong intuition that some sounds are R-like. And yet, when you’re trying to actually put your finger on, “Well, what makes them R-like?”, it becomes a way more complicated question.

Lauren: I guess one of the ones that is most immediately noticeable because it’s quite a fancy R is the /r/ in – I learnt to pronounce trilled R when I was learning Polish in a word like “pierogi.” It’s not as strong, but I could really emphasise it and talk about /piroʊgi/, which is definitely not how I would normally say that word, but you can hear that trilling of the R sound.

Gretchen: I encountered this R when I was trying to learn Spanish in high school. I got okay at Spanish, but I had a really hard time with this R. Because Spanish has two Rs. It has the tap R like in /pɛɾo/, meaning “but,” and then there’s this trilled R like in the word for “dog,” which is /pɛro/ – /pɛro/? Which I’m still not very good at. I can kind of make it now because there was a really helpful YouTube video that I watched a couple years ago after way too many years of trying and failing to produce this trilled R with the tip of your tongue. It turned out the thing about the trilled R is that you have to get a part of your mouth vibrating at such a fast speed that you don’t have conscious control over it. The way that you do that is you direct air in your mouth towards a place that’s just a little bit in front of where you actually want the vibration to happen. It’s like blowing into an instrument with a reed in it or blowing into a blade of grass between your fingers. You can direct that air and make this wavy – I think it’s the Bernoulli Reaction – happen in your mouth. That’s what’s making this sound that’s too fast for you to do it consciously. The mistake that I had been making was to direct the air actually at the tip of my tongue rather than directing it a little bit before so that the tongue can wave in the breeze like a little flag. I’m still not 100% on it, but I can sometimes do that [trilling sound] sometimes.

Lauren: It’s interesting that the R sound that the trill contrasts with is just a single tap. Instead of a repeated tapping motion, it’s just that single /pɛɾo/. One thing that is difficult about these R-like sounds that we’re talking about is that that’s more like something that we sometimes use for a D in English or a T in a word like /bʌɾə/ if we’re just saying it very rapidly. It is an R-thing in Spanish, but it’s not necessarily an R thing in English.

Gretchen: That’s what makes the category of rhotics or R-like sounds such a bizarre thing because basically it’s an R if people think it’s an R. There’s a lot of agreement within speakers about like, “Oh, yeah, this feels like an R to me, and this doesn’t feel like an R.” I really had to convince myself that the sound in “water” or “butter” or something was actually the same as in /pɛɾo/ because I was like, “But those feel like different sounds to me even though I can produce them both,” and I guess my tongue is doing the same thing. But one of them feels like an R.

Lauren: Whereas for the trill, you can replace an English R. You could say, “Let’s talk about /roʊtɪsɪti/” and that fits in as an R. [Gretchen laughs] I’m sorry to –

Gretchen: That’s great. No. Please. Let’s talk about – I’m just jealous that I can’t make it.

Lauren: Sorry to show off there. But you can see that in English, at least, that trilled R can substitute in for our usual R.

Gretchen: It sounds fancy, but it still sounds like an R. If I encounter a language, and I’m like, “Oh, it’s got this alveolar trilled R with the tip of the tongue,” I’m like, “Oh, yeah, totally normal R. Nothing to see here. Nothing surprising.” It’s found in Italian. It’s found in Spanish, Russian, Ukrainian, Dutch, Bulgarian, Swedish. There’s a whole bunch of languages that have this trilled R with the tip of the tongue. There are also a lot of languages that have the tap, which is just the single tap. Again, Spanish also has it. Japanese and Korean both have it. This is quite common in a lot of languages as well.

Lauren: I can do that trill at the alveolar, but I do struggle with the one that happens further back in the mouth that you find in French.

Gretchen: Oh, yay! That’s the one I can do.

Lauren: It’s in French and German and languages like modern Hebrew as well. Again, one of this category of R-like sounds but a bit further back.

Gretchen: /ʀ/ /ʀ/. This is the one that uses the little dangly bit at the back of your throat that you can see if you look in a mirror and scream. I think of it as a sort of cartoon screaming thing. If you can get that one waving in the back of your throat, /ʀ/ – I’m good at this one. My theory is that people are either good at this –

Lauren: You get one.

Gretchen: – the throat one or the tip of the tongue one and that very few people are good at both of them. Many people can do one or the other and are very frustrated they can’t do the other one. There are a variety of things that are done with the back of the throat that are often lumped together. In French you can have like, “roi,” the word for “king,” or “rue,” the word for “street,” and you can either /ʁ/ or /χ/. You can make it either with the vocal cords vibrating or not vibrating. You can pretty much do whichever one you want. Something that’s interesting about French is that French actually underwent a shift from the tip of the tongue one, which is still produced by a few, I think it’s mostly old men in rural Quebec, who still produce the one that you have in Polish. They still produce that R.

Lauren: Again, migration working as an amazing time capsule creation device.

Gretchen: Most of French speakers, including most people in Quebec – like younger people – but occasionally you’ll get some especially old men in less geographically central areas who still have that one because this has happened over the last 100 years that French has switched what kind of R it has. That’s one of the reasons why you can say, “Well, what do these two sounds have in common?” Okay. They’re both produced as a trill with that very fast vibration but so is the trill with the lips, /B/. Basically no languages consider the lip trill to be an R. That one’s not an R. /B/. I don’t know of any languages that consider that one to be an R-like sound. The other two that are midway in the mouth and back in the throat, those are R-like, and yet not this other one. The reason why it makes sense to consider all of these sounds together in the “R-like” category is because sometimes languages really do hop from one to the other because they still feel R-like somehow even though we don’t have a good way to pin down exactly what it is physically that you’re doing that makes it R-like.

Lauren: You can tell the sounds that linguists think fit into this category because the International Phonetic Alphabet character for them tends to be some variation on our character for the letter R.

Gretchen: It’s like shameless pandering to the R lobby.

Lauren: It’s really one of the cruellest things we do to people trying to learn to memorise all the symbols on the IPA because you have what we think of as a common R in English for words like “red,” or “rhotic,” is the letter R upside-down. Those uvular ones that you were talking about – is it a capital R upside down? The trill at the alveolar that we were talking about is the standard letter R. They’re all just little variations on it.

Gretchen: One of the things, speaking of Rs that vary, that I learned when we were researching this is that in Northern England there were once accents that used this /ʁ/, the back of the throat R like French has, which was described as a “burr.”

Lauren: That’s what people are trying to get at with that description of Northern accents.

Gretchen: Yeah. Because I’ve read – I dunno if it was Jane Austin specifically – but that era of English writer where they would say, “Oh, and this character had a ‘burr’ in his voice,” and I was just like, “A little fuzzy Velcro-y creature that sticks to you? What are you talking about this?” It’s actually trying to describe this /ʁ/ R that people had.

Lauren: Again, a nice example of the incredible variety of rhotic things that people have done with English.

Gretchen: What’s interesting is this R, too, is not always an R in every language because Arabic has a bog standard, tip of the tongue R like is common in very many languages. I actually had to go look up like, “What kind of R does Arabic have, again?” Because I studied it for a few years, and I’d forgotten what kind of R they have. And, oh, they have the normal one. Okay. Arabic also has a sound that’s very similar to what, in French, is the R sound at the back of the throat. It’s not treated as an R for the purposes of the rest of Arabic. It’s written with a G-H when you’re transcribing Arabic, and it’s produced in a very similar manner as what French considers an R, but it’s not an R language-internally, based on what people think of as R-like – in a similar way as this D in “water.”

Lauren: There’s this very loose set of what linguists broadly think of as potentially R-like, and then that manifests differently depending on the language and the other sounds that it’s in contrast to.

Gretchen: Exactly. Maybe the best example of this is that – because there’s a certain kind of sound that in some contexts can be an R-like sound, but most of the time in English, is more like a W.

Lauren: Right. Is that the very fancy Received Pronunciation English accent of talking about “woticity”?

Gretchen: “‘Mawwidge’ is what ‘bwrings’ us here together today.”

Lauren: It’s also a not-uncommon phase for children to go through. I think it’s worth saying, if you have any anxiety about not being able to produce one of the trills or one of the other R-type sounds that we’ve talked about today, it’s very common to not be able to hit sounds that aren’t in your languages that you’ve grown up with.

Gretchen: R is one of those hard sounds even for English-speaking children who’ve been exposed to it from birth.

Lauren: Children go through developmental stages where it takes them a while to get the hang of it. A lot of the time they’ll outgrow it. It’s worth just keeping an eye on and enjoying while it briefly occurs. If it’s persistent and your child is getting into 3 and 4 and it’s really not moving at all, that can be a time to maybe chat to a speech pathologist. But it is a completely normal phase to go through. It’s also completely normal not to be able to acquire sounds that aren’t in the languages that you are exposed to and that you speak. Don’t be too hard on yourself if you can’t hit one of those trills.

Gretchen: I have lost track of the number of small children, like extended family and friends’ kids, who have called me “Gwetchen” for six months.

Lauren: Oh my gosh, too cute.

Gretchen: “Gwetchen!” It’s great. It’s really wonderful. It’s so cute. There’s the classic Looney Tunes, “wascaly wabbit.” This is clearly also a stereotyped feature of a certain kind of childish speech in English. In addition to this T and G-H and W, sometimes, have ties with R, another really interesting sound that has ties with R is the /z/ sound, which is often written with S but actually pronounced /z/ as in “Zed.” In both the history of English and the history of Latin and the history of other languages, sometimes you get a /z/ changing to an R. This is how we get words like “was” and “were.”

Lauren: Ah. It’s one of those things that’s been staring me right in the face.

Gretchen: Yeah. “Was” and “were,” “is” and “are,” “rise” and “rear,” as in “to bring up.”

Lauren: Ah, yes.

Gretchen: And the suffixes “-er” and “-est” as in “bigger,” “biggest,” is another pair. Or words like “more” and “most,” “better” and “best,” “loss” and “forlorn.”

Lauren: Oh my gosh, this is a lot of very core English that I’m re-thinking for the first time.

Gretchen: Right? Sometimes an S or a Z just becomes an R or vice versa. Especially, the R often shows up between two vowels. The S changes to a /z/ sound between two vowels, and then that /z/ can change to an R because if you’re producing your R with the tongue near the front of the mouth, that’s kind of also where you’re pronouncing a /z/ sound. They’re not quite as different as you might think they are – at least if you’re producing that particular R. There’s also examples of this in Latin. You have things like “genus” – or /d͡ʒinəs/ – and “generous.”

Lauren: Which gives us “genre,”

Gretchen: “Genre,” and “generic,” and a whole bunch of words like that. And “genus,” like “species.” This happens in a bunch of languages. It’s not just those two. But you can see it in English and be like, “Wait! This has been here all along.”

Lauren: It’s another really great example of how rhoticity and rhotic sounds have this incredible flexibility and ability to change over time that makes them such an interesting little feature to pull apart and look at across a single language, across history, or across lots of different languages. You can start off going, “Okay, we’re going to look at R-like things,” and you can dig down and dig down and build more of an appreciation. You dig down so far you come back to they’re all just kind of R-like things.

Gretchen: You know how in nature the shape of a crab – the sideways scuttling, pinch-y arm thing – has evolved in several completely different branches of the family tree?

Lauren: Yes.

Gretchen: They call this “cancericization” – “everything wants to become a crab.” That’s “cancer” as in the Zodiac sign not “cancer” as in the disease. I think there’s also maybe – rhotacisation is like cancericization. Everything wants to become a crab; everything wants to become an R. R just shows up and has its little pinching fingers in so many different places.

Lauren: It’s never quite the same thing. Whenever you come across something written as an R in a language, it’s always good to keep an open mind about exactly what that is an exactly how it’s used. It’s a little recurring motif.

Gretchen: You keep coming back to this sense of similarity that people have noticed over and over again, even though these sounds are produced in incredibly different ways.

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Gretchen: For more Lingthusiasm and links to all the things mentioned in this episode, go to lingthusiasm.com. You can listen to us on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud, YouTube, or wherever else you get your podcasts. You can follow @Lingthusiasm on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Tumblr. You can get IPA scarves, “Not Judging Your Grammar, Just Analysing It” T-shirts, and other Lingthusiasm merch at lingthusiasm.com/merch. I can be found as @GretchenAMcC on Twitter, my blog is AllThingsLinguistic.com, and my book about internet language is called Because Internet.

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Gretchen: Lingthusiasm is created and produced by Gretchen McCulloch and Lauren Gawne. Our Senior Producer is Claire Gawne, our Editorial Producer is Sarah Dopierala, and our music is “Ancient City” by The Triangles.

Lauren: Stay lingthusiastic!

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