#numy talk

Undoubtedly the chapter is going to focus on Asgore and his complicated feelings regarding the divorce and Toriel not wanting him back (perhaps jealousy towards Sans?)

Which means that were are to explore another facet of Kris' trauma and neglect/abuse that has been building up since chapter 1

This is all obvious of course, the things I've been thinking about however is how every single major guiding figure in the Dark World is a neglectful or otherwise straight up abusive figure to Kris.

This is SPECIALLY true for the men

King- Imprisoned them and Susie, held them in a chokehold, beat them up and expressed explicit desires to get rid of them (whatever that may be is up to you)

Spamton- Took advantage of Kris for his own gain (specially true in Snowgrave) tried to straight up kill Kris for his grander plan, and if taken Snowgrave into account helped lock Kris in a cycle where they abuse their childhood friend by using this magical device that warps people's emotions and makes them "stronger" by hurting them (bonus points for the sexist boomer-esque marriage talk)

Tenna- ... Is Tenna. He is a manifestation of all the good and bad in Kris' household turned up to 11. He is guilty trippy, he deliberately weaponizes Kris' trauma against them to sway them into his side or to get sympathy out of them ("Who taught you to smile, laugh. It's not my fault you forgot" comes to mind) or heck even try to bring a twisted sense os relatability ("Couples fight sometimes, right Kris?") a creepy obsession with them and their affection specifically, more than any of the other members of the team because of his connection to Kris and their family, how he strips Kris' agency ("Just admit you NEED me"). Not all of it (if any of it) is entirely done maliciously but are nonetheless abusive behaviors that reflect Kris' situation

The outlier here is... Gerson, who is not technically a Darkner and has only been brought back into the Dark World due to being ash in the Light World thus he is not affected by the kids influences whenever a Fountain is opened (as Dark Worlds directly reflect who opened them and are clearly tied to certain characters lived experience see: Cyber World for Noelle)

Other than Gerson, every major opponent Kris has faced in the Dark World that reflect aspects of their life/trauma has primarily been a much older male figure, 1 of them being a dad and the other being a sort of babysitter to them.

When you take how Asgore and Toriel fought a lot after the incident. And how Asgore's story in Undertale revolves around him killing/harming children (something that lead to the death of his own son)

I come to the conclusion that

I have soooo much I've been thinking about in regards to chapter 5 (Flowery basically just being a younger gijinka of Rudy and how fruity he and Asgore are, MettaTenna being canon and seemingly the best route for Tenna, Aqua resembling Kris when they were a child, The soul and body becoming 2 separate entities with Mew Mew and what that could say about Kris and the player etc etc)

But a thing that just won't leave my mind is Spamton's involvement in Weird Route.

Chapter 4 already recontextualized his cruelty in chapter 2 to be a lot more intentional but soo many people were quick to dismiss weir route as just "a different non canon universe" which... I mean not true but I let it slide because maybe they're right and different interpretations n all that (despite me not agreeing with it at all)

So now with chapter 5 we can clearly see that there isn't just a mere difference in routes you take, all of these facets are absolutely canon to these characters and you get to see these sides of them based on the choices you, the player, force onto Kris.

I'm not here to remove agency from the player when I talk about Spamton, absolutely not. We play an extremely big and important part into how things are gonna turn out in this route and it'd be dismissive to not acknowledge that. I do however think that Spamton wasn't a random choice when it came to who gave us the thorn ring.

For starters with how heavy we a going with the "this is all a game" and "out of bounds" themes it makes sense that the spam email guy who was conjured up during the 90's would be the one doing this as back then specially spam emails were dangerous and several of them hosted viruses that could brick your pc. But also a reminder he is one of the major players when it comes to the game's themes surrounding grief, acceptance and the cycle of abuse in relationships.

Spamton is bitter, arrogant, downright insane and more than a little selfish all of which he is happy to blame Tenna for. No accountability for any potential wrongdoings on his end (which he has done as evident by Tenna talking about an instance of Spamton scamming him) it's all Tenna, Tenna and everyone else in his life- The Addisons, Swatch etc etc.

In normal route he seemingly turns a new leaf after literally beating some sense into him in the Neo fight.

But in weird route he gives you the thorn ring, the object which leads to EVERYTHING else that the player causes in the route.

He laughs about Noelle's eventual suffering ,makes a boomer esque sexist remark about marriage and seemingly only tries to stop you for his own gain and not because he sees that the player is gonna be using the ring for horrible experiements on these 2 teenagers.

Every single horrible thing we witness after that is directly the fault of Spamton giving the player the thorn ring, an action for he never took any accountability for and seemingly only cared about in favor of saving his own skin/helping him achieve his own goals.

It's hard for me not to see Noelle performing a suicide murder attempt as a form to reclaim back her agency from Kris (who she perceives as the guilty one, unaware of the player's presence) and not think "Spamton knew something like this would happen, he knew this would hurt Noelle... And he found it hilarious."

I don't think he is an irredeemable monster, normal route LITERALLY showcases that he's not.

My point is: The two routes illustrate different outcomes for his character, normal route he learns to move on and accept his circumstances and to make the best of them. And in the weird route he dwells on all of his worst character traits and becomes a worse person.

There's more I'd talk about but I'm 1) not smart enough and 2) not confidently incorrect enough to make bold predictions about future chapters so I'll leave it here.

There's about just weird route I keep thinking about and I'm just,,, so vindicated by chapter 5 it's great

breed/species headcanons bc autism took a hold of me

these are based off of vibes/personal biases

kinda like Eggman in the IDW comics

he can be moe and have moments like this, as a treat

saw this meme in a dream