@myimaginationplain replied to your post: I know this post is years old, so sorry for responding when you may have different opinions by now. But the way I see it, fairy tales, despite obviously being a big thing that RGU draws from, aren't the only type of story they're critiquing. imo, "The Tale of the Rose" resembles religious myths more than anything else, namely Pandora's Box & The Garden or Eden. It's a common archetype; that the world was pure & perfect until Woman was introduced to it.
From her ignorant disobedience (Pandora opening the box despite being instructed not to, Eve eating the fruit of Knowledge of Good & Evil & convincing Adam to do the same,) all pain & strife in the world springs. With Pandora & Eve both being the first human women created in their respective mythos, these stories have an inherently misogynistic quality to them. The same is true with The Tale of the Rose; Anthy, seemingly the only girl in the world who cannot be made a โ princess (so in some way echoing the "first woman" thing,) is blamed for plunging the world into pain & suffering by disobeying. And is literally crucified for it.
Itโs all good.
First: Thatโs a solid argument and I can see itโs applicability to โThe Tale of the Roseโ.
It brings to mind (ฮฑ) Bluebeard - where a wifeโs curiosity gets her into trouble but she triumphs, and (ฮฒ) the deconstruction of said myths & fairytales cf. Bluebeard. Basically one of the โmoralsโ at the end of Perraultโs Bluebeard critiques the wifeโs being curiosity. I feel that falls into similar ground as Eve and Pandora. This has been pointed out and reimagined in retellings and reinterpretations.
Second: The comparison brings out what makes Anthyโs situation different (to me) is the cause of her โcausing harm to the worldโ and being crucified for it โ from what we can glean, sheโs acting out of love, though the story presents it as jeslousy (she is the only girl who can never be a princess).
I feel like thereโs a lot to dissect in (1) the rewriting & reimagining of religious myths (Eve as a positive force willing to learn & live) via whose telling the story and (2) the witch/princess dichotomy. And I still think itโs very interesting to discuss, so yeah, fun times, good analytic point.
***
My general point, I believe, was: this is what fairy tales mean to me and that is not whatโs presented in โThe Tale of the Roseโ so from a exclusive fairy tale analysis/archivist perspective, I wouldnโt include it in a fairy tale collection, nor assign it an ATU classification. Which, I think, I still broadly adhere to. But which isnโt related to your point, which was more an additional analysis.
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If Code Lyoko received a reboot, what about the original would you change/improve?
I donโt know if you expecting an essay but Iโm giving you one so brace yourself.ย
NOTE: This entirely excludes CLEโs involvement in the show as 1) the question asked specifically for the original cartoon and 2) my hate for CLE has grown so strong to the point of disconnecting it from the original (which is really, really bad like god).
ANOTHER NOTE: A good portion of this post contains William hate. If you are a fan of William and/or you are sensitive to extreme character hate or imo,ย โcruel and unusualโ character criticism, do not read the last part.ย
Better character development/growth
As much as I love the characters, it feels they didnโt get as much growth through out the show and kind of stayed static? Only exception to this is Aelita, who has grown extremely well since the first episode. She went from naive AI to complete human within the four seasons and I wouldnโt really change in how that was portrayed (except in CLE, she was horrible there)
As for the others, Iโd go on to say Jeremie and Ulrich got some development here and there but Yumi and Oddโฆ I just didnโt find much development they went through that actually stuck with them.ย
Despite Yumi being my most favorite character of the show, I might go on to say Yumi mightโve gotten some characterย deteriorationย just merely based on S3 and S4, where she either became the punching bag for XANA, the target of romance drama or just a complete bitch compared to S1 and S2 where she was the closest the gang had to a โvoice of reasonโ character and was arguably the most normal out of everyone. When they brought Hiroki more into the focus of some S4, I really liked it since it mightโve shown more into Yumiโs character by showing her with someone thatโs not the main gang and I really like Hiroki. Sadly, it just brought out Yumiโs negative side even more and made me much more disappointed in her in general.ย
As for Odd, I know heโs supposed to be the comic relief and the wannabe casanova but what else. Itโs one of the reasons I hardly care for him cause I donโt really find him that interesting other than his design. Hints about his family have sparked an interest for him but as that never really got touched upon, most of my interests might be based solely in headcanons and I donโt like that.
The worst offender to this, however, is William but he has his own section.
Better relationship developmentย
Its obvious that the gang had a close relationship with each other but Iโd like to see like the inner relationships in the gang. Odd/Ulrich, Yumi/Aelita, Jeremie/Aelita and Ulrich/Yumi already had enough moments to satisfy me but how bout the others like Ulrich/Aelita, Yumi/Odd, Jeremie/Ulrich and etc? I donโt want the previous friendships Iโve mentioned to be split up but Iโd like to see other friendships to be explored or have their moments. Some of the friendships Iโve mentioned, I see just them just putting up with each other just for sake of the whole XANA business or that they couldnโt really survive with the two of them alone that long.ย
A possible friendship that wouldโve had really great potential and something I wouldโve really enjoyed but got wasted for romance drama purposes is William/Yumi. Again, mentioning in the William section/
Better romance development
THIS SHOULDโVE BEEN AN EXPECTED TOPIC CAUSE OH LORD, THE ROMANCE IN THIS SHOW.
Look, Iโm an ex-shipper in this fandom that used to ship everyone with anyone but after looking at things in a critical view, I canโt be satisfied with many of the ships in a romantic sense, particularly of theย โcanonโ ships and ship teases the show puts out there. Out of the ones I can name that has evidence of it possibly happening in the show itself (which seems to be Jerlita, Oddlita, Ulumi, Willumi, Sissodd and SamOdd), I can only find Ulumi and SissOdd tolerable. While the excuse ofย โtheyโre teenagers, you canโt expect healthy relationships at that ageโ, I still find it bullshit lol.ย
Of course, out of all the ships I mentioned, Ulumi has to be the worst out of all cause jfc
Look, I consider Ulumi to be my otp for the show but Iโm still critical bout in the sense they couldโve handled it a lot better and byย โhandled it a lot betterโ, I mean not creating drama for the sake of drama, which also includes not creating William for the sake of creating unnecessary love triangle drama. I understand Yumi and Ulrich are both meant to be emotionally conflicted and confused teens with dysfunctional families, which can reflect in their emotional capacity to form romantic relationships, but does it really mean they need to have some sort of drama every day of the week. Itโs not healthy and practically the reason why people hate Ulumi (and then go to Willumi, despite it being a just as bad or even worse ship). They have their moments of fluff and being sweet to each other but its not really worth over the drama they have to go through.ย
If thereโs one good thing S3 did, it was putting a buffer in Ulumi so that thereโs no more romance drama between them. Bad thing is some drama still happened between them anyway.
If thereโs one good thing CLE did, its showing the characterโs growth in Ulumi that they are willing to be more considerate with each otherโs feelings and talk about their issues with each other in a mature fashion that doesnโt involve the cold shoulder and jealousy tactics.
Iโll talk more bout the Willulumi love triangle in the William section.
Season 3 and Season 4 (alternative title: Better Story Writing)
Either rewrite these seasons or just throw them out completely. Season 3 directly ties into Season 4 so removing one or the other is not possible unless you rewrite the seasons completely.ย
Season 3 was where things gotโฆbad. The attacks either got more dangerous or completely ridiculous, Yumi got a lot more punishment than usual, there was not much plot development other thanย โFranz is aliveโ andย โWilliam joins the gang and destroys Lyokoโ, the last one was completely BSโd cause why even bother bringing him in to begin with, oh wait itโs to set up Season 4.
Season 4 got a little better in terms of bringing some things to light like the whole business with Oddโs family and involving the gang in some mundane things that feels like S1 but they didnโt do much good with plot here either. Half the episodes being in filler and the remaining episodes, everything towards the end was just rushed and eventually in vain cause Franz decides to off himself anyway. Also William. You know the drill.
Season 4 Lyoko outfits
This isnโt a big thing but I always hated the spandex outfits. If youโre going to give them new Lyoko outfits, please give them something with remnants of their previous Lyoko outfits and isnโt spandex.
William fucking Dunbar
The moment you all have been waiting for. If youโre a William fan and/or sensitive to blatant character hate or as I would call it, โcruel and unusualโ character criticism, please do not read this.
If case it were not obvious already, I really hate William. Like REALLY hate him. If anyone knew me pre 2014, theyโd know I had no issue with him and hell, I even liked him. Once I took off my honeymoon lens, stopped listening to all the grossly positive things people have been spoonfeeding to me since my time in the fandom and saw him for what he really is, I was just mind blown at how much I hated this guy. This was a character that I used to be fond of and considered to be my one of my favorite characters. I didnโt know how I could be so blind to his faults.
As this is a question concerning the show itself, Iโm not gonna speak about the fandom-related reasons as to why I hated him so much. That can be saved for another ask.
One of my main show-related issues with William is the fact he has no character other than being involved with some Ulumi love drama thing. The show says that heโs a rebel who got kicked out of his previous school for posting love letters for a previous crush all around campus (which can qualify as some sort of harassment, Iโm sure), he canโt dance, and heโs afraid of spiders. Other than the part where he can act like an arrogant asshole to some characters, like Ulrich, thereโs really not much depth to him. I donโt see anything remotely likable about him other than the fact I consider him to be one of the most attractive characters on the show.ย
During the show, I see no distinction that separates him from the rest of the background characters. If you take him out of the show, there wouldnโt be much of a different in the show/plot cause his main role isnโt really that necessary. Before you go, โBUT HE WAS THE MAIN VILLIAN IN S4/WHO ELSE WOULDโVE GOTTEN POSSESSED IN S3โณ, I can think of a few other characters who deserve that kind of role way more than William does, as in a character whoโs gotten much more development and been there since the start.ย
In relating to wasted character writing, thereโs the whole thing between Ulrich, William and Yumi. I really hate love triangles and Willulumi is no exception. I just found the whole thingโฆtotally unnecessary and a danger to both Ulrich, Williamโs and Yumiโs characters, well as fansโ perceptions to these characters. Ulrichโs jealousy towards William was a major factor into demonizing the boy and portraying him as abusive in most Willumi fics while Williamโs advances onto Yumi has made fans portray him as some sort of disgusting rapist. As for Yumi, its made her look as some form of โdamsel-in-distressโ character that needs to be rescued by Ulrich/William or some sort of bitch that led the both of them on. I DONโT KNOW but the whole Willulumi triangle thing is the one thing that messes with a whole bunch of fans and really didnโt need to be written in and before you sayย โBUT HOW BOUT WILLULUMI AS A POLY SHIP THOโ, Willulumi would be so messed up as a ship tbh. Ulrich still has yet to handle his jealousy and negative emotions towards William in a proper and healthy fashion, William doesnโt know how to take a hint without throwing a hissy-fit and Yumi has no chill over these guys. This can only end in disaster.ย
AGAIN IN RELATING TO THE ABOVE, Yumi and Williamโs relationship didnโt have to necessarily be romantic based specifically. I can tell in early S2 that they couldโve had a strong friendship going on if it wasnโt for the romance butting in:
Yumi and William couldโve had a really strong friendship going on and he wouldโve served as her outlet of having some sort of normality in her life during the whole Lyoko business. Because of this, it would serve as some sort of reason as to why Yumi didnโt want him on the gang to begin with and would be much more heartbreaking when he got possessed and inย โThe Lakeโ when William momentarily broke free of XANAโs control. What Iโm trying to say is that they couldโve shown that Yumi and William had some sort of strong connection better in the show than how they portrayed it.ย
Unfortunately, you had William being infatuated with Yumi to the point of stalking her home and trying force romantic advances onto her, as well trying to force himself into the gang for no apparent reason other than to butt in into Yumiโs life, despite her wanting him to leave her alone. This is probably my main issue with him. His interactions with Yumi showed me he doesnโt know how to take a hint and look where that got him: kick out of a school, possible lost friendships and getting held against his will by an evil AI for god knows how long. Because of that and my fandom related issues (which has a lot to do with an old chat ground I used to be a part of and some big drama that happened last year) with William, I cannot bring myself to even be remotely interested in him without getting so angry and just a complete monster.
If youโre a fan of William and you feel personally offended by reading this whole William hate portion despite me warning you not to read this portion twice, Iโm sorry but this is how I feel about this guy and I feel that if thereโs anything big the show should work on, its gotta be William since he manages to both be a big problem in the romance part of the show and the plot itself (secondary character with little to none character immediately jumping to one of the main antagonists and the spotlight of the main characters = not good). I got asked for my opinion and this is what you get.
Hello! I've noticed that in a lot of your videos with Loki, you use a scene where someone opens up a book page about him. What movie/show is that scene from?
Why I like them: feliciano is my darling baby he's just ??? aaaaa ?????? aaaaaaaaaaa ????? ?? ? ? ? ย ???!!!!
Why I donโt: HE IS BAD AT TANK DESIGN jk i dont not like feli ever
Favorite episode (scene if movie): that one where he's a baby and the dude gets his boat stuck in a canal and feli is like "dude don't have such big boats then ill make a law" and the dude is like "no dont make a law here have some candy" and feli is like "thanks for the candy im gonna go make a law about having smaller boats" and hre was watching the whole thing and he's like "shit"
Favorite line: "HEY JAPAN WANT TO SEE MY BUTT" "this is my big brother romano! isn't he cheesy?"/basically anything where he starts rambling really fast/everything from the testing-peoples-chests thing
Favorite outfit: the april fools event with the dress. ye
OTP: yu o are asking mE this on this the da y of my greant uants weddinh how is this up for debate (gerita)
Brotp: feli + the whole world (tbh sadฤฑk + feli bros4lyfe)
Head Canon: he's actually really good at concrete math but as soon as it gets away from like computing physical things to Weird Number Magic he just glazes over and falls asleep
Unpopular opinion: i think for some reason "cis feli" is still a popular opinion, in which case i would like to present the counterpoint argument of "no, u r wrong"
An oh-god-please-dont-ever-happen: any sort of canonization of hetaoni not bc i hate the game but bc i hurt a lot when i think about it
My nickname for them: feli, Fuckin Nerd, Gay Ass Marvel
seysey
Why I like them: she's so !!! so cute and cheerful and sisterly and a good swimmer probably
Why I donโt: bc she doesn't show up more; this doesnt make me not like her it just prevents me from liking her as much as i could w more info abt her, i could never like actually dislike sey she is the princess of my heart and soul
Favorite episode (scene if movie): when her friend comes over to visit and she shows her the butt coconuts
Favorite line: "THE PRINCE IS COMING TO SEYCHELLES"
Favorite outfit: know what. her normal outfit is my fave its so cute i bet theres a fish pattern hidden in it
OTP: yikes uh i dont ship her that much but cubasey and taisey would both be [thumbs up emoji]
Brotp: sey + feli hands down
Head Canon: she has a rubber duck collection
Unpopular opinion: i dont know any opinions about sey ?? she is not annoying
An oh-god-please-dont-ever-happen: dont have the thing where ppl either use her as a self insert character or slam her for """being in the way""" of x otp
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