#monster analysis

Her motives were not really mapped out well I feel like the author could've expanded on that more. It overall left a bad taste in my mouth.

What do you think?

About Nina;

I agree with you. I read a lot of Nina metas and i understand what she was supposed to symoblize (Nina; human, Tenma; God, Johan; Devil) but i think Tenma fits the role of human anyway and it doesnt work in Nina's case because she is not some random victim whom Johan killed her parents. She is her brother so her forgiving him at the end (especially when she already forgave other villains) doesnt work out as 'act of love'.

So the reason I think she isnt much memorable to you, thats because she is too similar to Tenma during the series.

They are good people who helps others

They investigate Johan separately but somehow at the same time.

They both project their inner monster on Johan so they think killing him will solve everything

Both use guns

Their interaction with Dieter is same

Everyone loves them

They are the only people Johan cares about and only people he lets them live Though Nina is different, her personality is more expressive and extrovert but this side of Nina is barely seen. Only at the beginning and ending. Tenma's character and ideals makes sense for his character because he is a doctor, also why he is obsessed with Johan but Nina as Johans sister, she couldve been different. More personal, more obsessive.

This is the problem with writing "good people". Her place in story is also mess and kinda replacable....yes, even though she is Johans sister. When i said replacable, i mean a lot of scenes were just there. Even if she wasnt there, nothing would change.

After not being able to meet her, Johan never go after her. He is more obsessed with Tenma, not Nina.

After escaping from her brother, she didnt need to meet Neonazis. Another character would stop the bomb and Tenma would see Johans writing anyway.

Her training from sugar man is just side character story, couldve been Tenma and same with meeting old cop. It couldve been Tenma who met the guy and nothing would change.

Even if Nina didnt come library, Tenma still wouldnt shot Johan. Her "dont shot him" scene with Nina has no build up and cringe. Johan didnt even interact with her at all in that scene and Nina also doesnt attempt to talk with her brother. She literally acts like random cop who suddenly appeared in the scene.

Other characters learnt "nameless monster" book, or 511 or the mansion etc on their own.

Nina remembering her flashbacks, or learning other book stories etc was important information only she knew but she never shared those informations with other characters. Its almost as its just written for audience to learn, to understand Johan.

Her interaction with Johan at broken house, that was meaningfull. That was only them after all but that scene didnt change anything for Johans plans. Johan was already remembering his memories and planning his suicide anyway. Only usefull information is that Nina found out Johan will kill himself but neither Nina and Tenma cared that information enough to do something different. Then at the end everyone find a way to find Franz's town.

At the end, another usefull and important flashback we get with Nina. Only Dr Gilleun heard this but its not like he did anything about it. Then Nina ran to Johan and told him she forgave him. Of course. Of course, it is important but its not impactfull (for audience) if Nina can forgave other characters. And once again, this doesnt stop Johan.

And no, Tenma wouldnt shot Johan even Nina didnt come. Even Nina didnt tell him to save Johan later, he would still save Johan. Literally any other character could say that.

And at the end, Nina lives her life again just a normal girl. Tenma is the one who is with Johan and his words 'You had a name' is what saves Johan at the end.

I am not saying she isnt important character. She is but as character, she didnt change things much, even though she shouldve as main heroine. She shouldve played more role that affects things around her, especially her interaction with Johan. But it didnt.

We could maybe say the same thing for Tenma or other characters but not really. There is already a certain role Tenma symbolize, humanity, saving lifes and most other characters are just side characters. But thats the thing. Nina isnt meant to be side character. She was supposed to be main heroine but even characters like Lunge and Eva, even they mess up or dont do much, they are still more memorable because their invidiuality shows itself. They affect the storyline in their own way.

I think we shouldve seen her inviduality more rather than her just going after on her own. I mean, on her own way, different than Tenma. Most importantly, i wish we shouldve seen her love for her brother, her family (Fortners) but her connection with them, our connection with people shows us who we are. Maybe she shouldve traveled with Tenma, then their connection would makes sense. And definitely we shouldve seen more about the her connection with Johan and her memories as Anna and after remembering, it does affect her so she shouldve done something to affect things around her as Nina, as heroine but none of these happenned.

this scene still haunts many viewers decades after the series finished.

while I believe that it doesn’t really matter who was the unwanted one rather than the fact that there was an unwanted one at all in the first place, I’d like to offer my two cents on this matter.

Hello little monster fan Anon! I'm sorry if my answer lacked clarity, often the asks I read impel me into an analysis that doesn't precisely and succinctly answer the question posed.

*** You've summed up my answer perfectly, but I just wanted to clarify a few points. To understand Johan is to understand a shadow cast on the wall. Even if we understand its contours, it is uncertain. After all, Johan's very existence in Monster has been questioned by characters, he has no name and appears very little. So we won't know, and the point is not to know precisely what Johan might have been doing for 9 years.

I don't think Johan himself was interested in studies, education or even knowledge. Or rather, he wasn't interested in them as such. He saw them simply as means either of domination, and playing at martyring ants, as with the bank, or as means of accessing answers about himself.

The fact that he studied children's rights in international law proves this. He is studying it in order to manipulate better; being close to children, his speciality as an academic, is part of the mask he has decided to wear at Munique University. But I don't think he chose this speciality at random and that in this discipline, but also in his interactions with children, Johan was looking for answers.

I'm researching the rights of children proclaimed by the United Nations in 1986.

He is a selfless genius, but he has also shown hesitation at times, even vulnerability. And he suffers from traumatic amnesia, just like Nina. For Nina, the secret to her recovery was to forget Johan. Johan's recordings show that ‘Anna’ was his lifeline.

I was waiting for Anna. - For Anna? Who's Anna? 

You really have to read them as reflections of each other, because even though Johan's actions are obviously awful and against Nina's happiness, I'm going to take the risky step of saying that I don't think Johan wanted to hurt Nina. I know that sounds excruciatingly inevitable. But although Johan embodies nihilism, the only inevitability he admits to is Nina.

When Nina returned from the House of the Rose, Johan decided to carry the trauma with him to the point of convincing himself that he had lived through it. Convincing himself that he has lived through it is a mental defence mechanism for Johan. It's more terrible for him to think that Nina suffered than that he suffered.

All the despair, the trauma, the fear of Bonaparta and his return, Johan has carried with him. Nina was rid of it. If Johan asks her to kill him, he is doing it for her. Johan is Nina and Nina is Johan. If Nina gets rid of the dark, desperate part of herself (Johan), she will be able to achieve happiness.

It's all yours.

It's all an unconscious, silent contract between the twins. When Johan kills the Fortners, I think Johan knows he's not doing it for Nina's sake. But he doesn't want to hurt her either. But it was inevitable. Paradoxically, Johan is the bearer of a certain fatalism, the past and memories are the greatest determinism that conditions us. The past returns. And even if she has forgotten it, the death of Nina's parents has hit her again.

There is no question of limiting the Fortners' death to Johan's intentions per se. The death of the Fortners is a question.

Who killed them ? Nina by failing to kill Johan? Tenma by saving him? If we see them both in front of the bodies, it's to question their own responsibility. They contributed to the tragedy and are actors in it.

Why did you save him? - Didn't I kill him?!

Why did you save him? - Didn't I kill him?!

Probably a stretch and my reasoning definitely boils down to “because I think that would be interesting and will analyse text based on this premise” so don’t take me too seriously lol (but I’m right)

I mostly wanted to write this because I lament the fact that Johan and Grimmer never really get any proper interactions together despite being, in my opinion, much better narrative foils to each other than Johan is to Tenma. They were made of the same building blocks, but turned out as total opposition to one another. We do get a faint taste of this through Milosz, and that’s actually part of what makes me argue this point: Milosz was saved.

Before really getting into Grimmer vs. Johan, it’s important to draw another distinction. Grimmer and Roberto are the ones often compared, given their ties to one another. They both went to Kinderheim, and both were similarly broken down to hollow human husks, then left the orphanage and began different lives. It’s here, once they moved on, that an important distinction is made.

While little is known about Roberto and so there’s not much to go on here, he indicates while talking to Lunge that he lived as an impersonal mercenary, with no connections to anyone or anything. Because he never speaks on having had any connection of any kind, my assumption here is this has always been the case for him.

Grimmer on the other hand became very much connected to people. While, yes, it was a facade - he didn’t care about them, he was performing a role as a spy - he did still have a grounded existence in which people were familiar with him, treated him like a friend, a husband, a father. Even if it was false, Grimmer had grounded himself by living a life. Roberto was transient, with no other person to validate his existence.

In a way, I connect Grimmer to Nina; both have little to no memory of their childhood, and both were “given” a new name, living their lives under this new persona and growing into a person of their own, holding that new name as a part of themselves. Basically, Grimmer has an identity. He started developing into a proper person, and allowed himself to move forward with his life as that person. And after losing the people that had become his family, he set his sights on a goal to unearth the organization that had put him through everything he endured. While he is contemplating his past here, he’s doing so through the lens of a forward-moving goal; he can’t achieve it if he’s only looking back. Achieving his goal means he has to keep moving forward.

The reason that Johan was able to get to Roberto, and to sway him to perfect loyalty, was because Roberto had nothing to ground him in the present, and nothing to look for in the future. He was stuck in the past, and having someone validate those feelings gave him ground to stand on. He finally had a connection, but that connection was fixing him into his past, rather than pulling him forward. He’s trapped by Johan and sees no future except “the end”.

Overall this is how Johan works; he himself is unable to let go of the past, and sympathizes with people who in turn have traumas they’re unable to let go of, helping them to embrace that part of themselves instead of moving on. Convincing people to kill themselves isn’t that hard when all that exists for them is their past, and the future has no meaning.

This brings us back to the pseudo-conflict between Grimmer and Johan over Milosz. Indeed, Johan is able to break Milosz down and trap him into his past - the trauma of knowing his mother abandoned him. Rationally, if he were able to look forward, he would know that he has a new family now, in the boys that befriended him. But because he was caught in Johan’s trap, the present doesn’t matter. Grimmer, though, was able to break through with one important assertion: that someone wanted him. True his mother may have abandoned him (or died, we don’t even know!) but so long as he looks forward instead of back, there will be people in the world he will meet that do want him, that do love him, that need him in their lives. He gives Milosz a goal: to find the people that can become his new family, instead of wallowing in the despair of not having his mother.

While I do think that Johan would have had the power to reach and break down Grimmer when he was younger, still more freshly out of Kinderheim and barely established as a person, the Grimmer of now is too grounded in his existence and forward-looking for Johan to be able to ensnare him. The only way I think he might have an angle on Grimmer is through Steiner, as Grimmer still expresses visible vulnerability about not being able to control that other side to himself, but I don’t think it would be enough to convince him that the world is full of despair. His connection to the world, even if manufactured some of the time, is too strong for Johan to crack.

I would have loved to see them have a proper discussion in the show, I think it could have been very insightful.

I see you finished Monster and are quite versed in Johan. Can you help me understand the depth of his character better? I feel like many people miss the point of it. Also I'd like to know why you like him so much.

Oh, there is so much to say about him but i will try to make it short as possible.

Lets Talk About Johan;

First of all, i heard his character as some 'evil' mastermind so i wasnt really interested in his character until i experience the story by myself. I wondered why this series is popular so i decided to give a chance. I tought Johan was like Afo (from Bnha) but he turn out to be a lot like Shigaraki lol.

What makes a character depth is if they are not one-dimensional, that there is a more than how they seem from surface. And Johan fits well since he is mysterious character who is seen as angel, monster, devil, basically anything but human but they end up failing to understand him because if he was so simple, police would've catch him a long time ago.

At the start of series, he seems like your usual dangerous serial killer which fits the psychological thriller theme of story. And one of the best thing in series is his connection with Tenma. A doctor saves his life and this dangerous killer starts to view him as parent figure. A killer who see no worth in life and the doctor who thinks every life is equal, especially saving Johan is the reason he starts to to be able to live his life as a real doctor. Only to learn the child whom he saved turn out to be serial killer.

Tenma feels responsible for this and goes to journey to kill Johan. During this journey, we aldo discover some hints of what made Johan the way he is. The irony is we get the hints and a lot of characters perspective of him, everyone except Johan.

Is his messages about 'the monster inside of him' serious or not? Tenma assumes Johan is enjoying this at first, then he assumes Johan has multiple personality disorder. And later when he talked with other doctor, he assumes Johan is just playing with him because thats what most serial killers do with police. This is interesting because all of those end up being wrong. Johan doesnt enjoy from killing people. Johan doesnt have DID. Johan didnt write those messages to play with them. We know this because we later learn that he is unconciously imitate the fairytale stories he read as child.

Meanwhile, he has fanclub. A lot of murderers admire Johan because they view him as destruction Buddha. Just like others, he is seen as monster but why though? Its not like he is the only killer in the world. And personally, a lot of characters are more 'evil' than him so the thing about Johan is; he treats human life as nothing. Not just other people but also himself. Thats what makes him so scary to everyone. He doesnt even do it out of joy, money, statue. He looks like the devil in human form. He spreads misery to world. (Thats why he burns library when they said "its humanity's treasure" LoL.)

To people, that is scary. When they look at Johan, his eyes, the see someone who has no identity (nameless world). They see someone who treats life like as a game. Which explains why many people are afraid of him.

Some also want to use him, such as they want him to make second Hitler and he is like 'Nope'.

I think the main reason i love Johan is that he is like a magician. He can create a beautifull illusion. He is someone who can touch people's hearths because how well he understands them. Which is why he is seen as angel when people dont know he kills people.

This is also why he can use other killers for himself. He can see their vulnerabilities. Because even a killer is still human and they might need acceptance, to be understood by someone. Johan can give it to them. And they wish they were like Johan because they think everything would be a lot easier for them to kill others, like some kind of edgy teens. They fail to understand the person they want to be is extremely miserable.

On other hand, Johan can use his skills with curing people. Such as him waking Suk's mother, he made her remember her son again. Though he does things with ulterior motives, same skills can be used for good things. He can make people happy or miserable by little things. With a little magic or just skill.

And even though he is villain, he has very relaxing voice. He is very elegant. He listens other people. This fits perfectly well with his manipulative character.

We also never know when he is sincere or not because when you think he doesnt he actually seem to care, such as when he cried for Karl. Apperantly, tears were real. He is always in his world, its so funny when you think about he is some kind of mastermind.

Also his interaction with kids is so interesting. I think he geniuely enjoys being around them. Otherwise, why would he bother to spend time with them, why would he know so much about child's rights, why would he look for picture book for a friend? This is the same guy who encourage kids to rooftop game (and the scene where he was projecting on Milos) which is messed up. It gives me chills. His nihisilism, him viewing life as game end up resulting him expressing love as twisted.

----

Later, everything changes when Johan finds certain book in library. Basically, Johan's character doesnt necessarely stay same during the series. He changes his motives from unconciously imitating nameless monster stories to find actual monster who ruined his life. Even though he does messed up things, everything about his character makes sense with that scene. Johan geniuely believed that he is nameless monster. Johan geniuely believed that he doesnt exist.

Everything about him makes sense because it explains why he doesnt think death as much of it. Because if someone doesnt exist, they cant be killed. If someone doesnt exist, they cant be responsible for killings. He is detached from reality. Its not that he didnt feel. Its that he doesnt view it as real the way other people does. Because Johan isnt there. This is the tragedy of Johan's story. He doesnt have name. He doesnt have identity. He feels as he doesnt exist.

The famous 'monster' tape everyone after is about a child unable to see the difference between fairytale story and reality. 'My name is Johan. My name is Thomas. My name is Hans. My name is Otto.' He is them but he is neither of them. Johan views Anna as his half, as Anna is the real one and he is fake copy. He killed people as child, not because he is evil but because he geniuely thought that monster is coming after them. He cant even separate his own memories from Anna's. He takes all bad memories both to protect Anna and other reason is to become someone. He wanted to have identity, he wanted to live so bad but he didnt have on his own so he took it from others, just like the nameless monster.

This is also why Johan is also affected by Tenma's saving him. He probably wondered Tenma wouldnt save him, if he knew he was monster. He was kinda right because Tenma regretted his decision but he was wrong because Tenma couldnt shoot him and he saved him the second time. He showed him that he has right to live, he has right to exist, and that he has a name so he is not monster. This is why Johan can open up his worst insecurities. And they really give father-son energy and i think thats cute. I am glad that even after years Tenma visists him at hospital.

And we can guess what happened at the end thanks to Grimmer (one of the characters who deserves better), 'The monster become human at the end'. and Lunge said that if he were not a human being, he would not leave a trace, only humans leave a trace. For the first time we see Johan leave his mark. So Johan is no longer a monster, just a human. Also, his real name doesnt matter, he is Johan to us/all.

I love the messages of story. There is a monster inside all of us, but we can contain/heal it and after all, we are all human, our lives are equally valuable and stealing a person's name is the biggest crime, so having a name is very important. Story still has certain writing issues but generally, it is good story. Johan is well written character because his story is such a journey. We cant even really appreaciate the story without fully understand Johan. Every scene he is in meaningfull. And personally, i think his story is very empathic because of how tragic he is. Also sometimes he looks so funny and weird which makes him entertaining. He is such a good character.

Though you are right, anon. Many people still misinterpret the story, especially his character but anyway, there are still people who makes great analysis about him. Such as this analysis made by @cyanogoth.

Its ironic that most/some main villains have the most interesting and sempathic backstories, even though they are supposed to be 'big evil' or something but in reality, they are not really.

Thanks to @APixelTaurus for this art piece!

First Appearance 1-24 The Feast

Encounter Appearance 3-37 From the Boughs

Armor Class 16

Legendary Actions

Legendary Resistances

Speed 30 ft, 50 ft Flying

118 damage taken

60 damage buffer from Ward of the Corrupt

86 damage taken directly, 32 taken by Ward

An expert liar, a brilliant manipulator, an accomplished disciple of the Whispered One, a self-important archmage (redundant, we know), and one of the greatest necromancers in Exandrian history, Delilah Briarwood is responsible for breaking the world to have her desires met, not even slightly bothered by the generated trauma and body count caused by even a single step in her convoluted plans. To her, everyone else has always been a resource, and any who complain or resist are not upholding their purpose as tools to her self-imposed destiny. Decades have gone by since other legends have attempted to put her in her place. Now she is but a shade of her former self, which, unfortunately for those who would oppose her, is still saying something.

First off: I'd like to apologize for taking my time to reply.

I don't know if this makes sense but I personally see it as his attempt to connect with his past and his memories.

You could say it's a part of his journey of self-discovery

Here's the thing: he didn't actually need to wear a disguise. He can easily make people trust him and manipulates people without altering his appearance. He's done it times and times again so why does he feel the need to dress up as a girl—as his sister to be precise?

I'd say it's because in that town, in his birthplace, that was the identity he lived with: the identity that he shares with his sister.

In that town, he was never a little boy. He was never his own person—he was his sister, quite literally.

He had no memory of that town as himself and the town had no memory of him as himself.

The connection he had with that town was under the identity he shared with his sister—and he was trying to find that connection, and thus he tried to pick up that identity again.

That's why he picked the name 'Anna Liebert'. Because 'Anna Liebert' was his sister, not 'Nina Fortner'.

'Anna Liebert' was a girl who had a twin brother named Johan, not 'Nina Fortner'.

'Anna Liebert' was the Identity that Nina threw away, it's an identity that connects her with him.

'Nina Fortner' is the sole daughter of Christianne and Erich Fortner. She had no brother nor any connection with him

I think at some point he was really contemplating whether or not he should just live under that identity—if he could just build a happy life as ‘Anna Liebert’ there. because unlike his other guises and fake identities, he went out of his way to make contact and be casually friendly to the people around him

Enough to leave an impression

but of course that’s not working, because he’ll never be seen as who he really is.

but then again, who IS he, really?

I don’t think Johan takes any enjoyment in the whole “I am you and you are me” thing.

that wasn’t him genuinely believing that he and Anna are the same person. that wasn’t him saying that Anna is just the same as he is. that was him viewing himself as Anna’s shadow, an expendable replacement—because the world had taught him so

Thanks to @nqsoa​ for this art piece!

First Appearance: 3-50 Red Moon Rising

Armor Class 20

Speed 40 ft

Advantage on saving throws against magical effects

127 damage taken, 8 HDYWTDT by Laudna

Warders are huge, bulbous constructs that the Ruby Vanguard and Paragon’s Call have enlisted to aid them around the Tishtan Excavation. Presumably mass produced and mass distributed among the various entry points to the site, Warders can move heavy crates within their massive hollow forms, but also aid their allies in combat by throwing heavy cargo and unleashing a blast of fire in an area in front of it. (Like putting a flamethrower on a semitruck, we’re sure it seemed very cool at the time of design, though the implementation doesn’t exactly scream practical.)

Compared to the mage hunter golems guarding the Malleus Key (which were first seen in Campaign 2), the warders are designed not for a single concentrated purpose, but to take on many tasks at once, and none of them particularly well. If it’s any indication from the unsurprised Paragon’s Call driver who asked the party why it was down, they tend to break down often enough that they aren’t the most reliable of constructs.