#mlb strikeback

The riskiest thing she's done is when she made Senti-Bug she was standing right behind a wall a few metres away. Why wouldn't she control her from afar if she can hear what Mayura is telling her by just holding the Amok object anyway?

The Senti-Moth Mayura created in the s3 Finale to destroy Master Fu's Shield, while she was on the rooftop together with Gabriel, why did she go outside just to spawn the Moth if she was clearly not doing well, health-wise? They probably needed to control the Senti in case they had to retreat, just like they did end up doing. Yeah, Gabriel could've used the Amok to do it himself alone, but it's better to split roles and have Mayura control the Senti and Gabriel deal with the Heroes.

Same in "Miraculer" s3, when Mayura goes around the city to find someone she can link her Amok to, which happens to be August and his desire for Lollipops, so she creates the Lollipop Monster, as she's standing on a roof.

SentiBug in 'Ladybug' s3, SentiMoth in 'Miracle Queen' s3 and Lollipop Monster 'Miraculer' s3:

Other examples are in Season 4 when Shadowmoth makes Senti-Bubbler, Senti-Nino, Senti-Alec and Strikeback: he's away from his Mansion, holding the Amoks, hiding near the place where the senti is at. If there was no range of control why would he leave the secret cove too? He never leaves the cove usally, so him having to go outside to control these Senti-beings could be a clue.

With "Senti-Bubbler" (s4), Shadowmoth was behind the corner of Alya's house, then he started chasing WITH Senti-bubbler when he saw the Ladybug illusion running away and Chat Noir arriving. Shadowmoth was outside, near Alya's house, near the Senti, holding it's amok.

He makes Senti-Alec and Senti-Nino while he's inside Montparnasse Tower, which is the same place Adrien jumped off in 'Gorizilla', indicating that, since here Gabriel had to leave his cove to make this plan work, this building is outside the Range from the Agreste Mansion.

He makes Strikeback while he's standing on the Eiffel Tower, indicating that part of the city it's outside of the Range as well. While he makes Senti-Gabriel as he's still in Nathalie's room, he doesn't go in his basement/cove to do this, despite the large amount of guests downstairs + Felix roaming around freely.

Felix has Red Moon hover over Paris, following him around from afar, while he's controlling her light ('Emotion' s5).

Gabriel controlling Strikeback from the Eiffel Tower and Felix controlling Red Moon, which stayed close to the ground:

The Senti can continue to follow the order even after they walked outside of the Range, as long as the order was given while it was still inside it, but you cannot give another order/counter-order if the Senti is outside of the range while you give this new one (like Gabriel tried and failed to do to Adrien in 'Gorizilla').

Examples: Optigami followed the orders Nathalie gave it when it was still in her hands, which involved flying all across Paris. Crysalis's plan was to give an order to Felix in "Yaksi Gozen" to spy on the Miraculers, which would've involved him wandering around Paris without raising suspicions.

If there was no range Shadowmoth could've controlled SentiBubbler, SentiAlec and Strikeback from his cove, but he was away from his house. Akumas instead have a way bigger range, like more than half of Paris' size.

('Optigami' s4) Senti-Alec & Senti-Nino on Montparnasse Tower while Gabriel is hiding in the same building, Optigami being ordered what to do while still in Mayura's hands, Shadowmoth making Senti-Gabriel ('Gabriel Agreste' s4) for him to control within the walls of his mansion:

'Startrain' (s3) is an interesting case, might be good for comparing Ranges and how they work, as Startrain is an akumatized villain who never got a connection with Hawkmoth, because the free roaming Akuma got caught in Sabrina's bag for a while and already was on the track to London. When it finally reached somebody to akumatize it was too far away for Hawkmoth to control the new villain at that point: the akuma still did it's job, but Gabriel had no way to connect to it, because it was outside of the Range already (they were in the underwater tunnel under the sea at that point).

Lastly, when Shadowmoth or Mayura created Sentis to be associated with an akumatized villain, they sent the Amok flying WITH the Akuma. The villain was in control of the Senti, so they didn't need to leave the cove at all for those cases. Basically the Senti itself was far away from Shadowmoth/Mayura, but it was close to it's own amok as the akumatized person had it in their hands.

Also when he controls Adrien he usually walks up close to him every time, or they are in the same room or they're at eyesight distance or not too far away. So I think the Senti doesn't need to be in earshot distance to listen to the command, but the order still needs to be given within the Range, if it's given when the Senti is outside, then they will not respond to the command and they'll keep acting independently (like they usually do when they're not actively being controlled).

This could explain how Adrien keeps running off and disobeying (especially early seasons), it's whenever Gabriel doesn't know about it! Like in Startrain Adrien stated he's coming to the trip without his father's knowledge (Nino:"You're disobeying him, dude!?", Adrien:"Technically not, because I didn't tell him about this one!"); in Gorizilla we litterally see him transform and run away right before Gabriel came to check on him in his room after he told him to go practice on the piano (first minute of the ep); in Origins P1 he says to Nathalie:"please don't tell my father about this!", implying he ran to school without him knowing; in Protection, he has the PicNic date with Mari while his father wasn't aware... Or litterally in every episode when he transforms into CN to go fight akumas lol

For example, what's the difference between Adrien secretly escaping his house every day to do his Superhero job and him failing to escape the trip to London in "Revolution"? Right, that when he escapes secretly, his father doesn't know he isn't home anymore (he even puts his phone playing the piano so they can "hear him practice" and don't open the door), while when he wanted to escape the travel to London his father ordered him to go while he was sitting in front of him and they were together in the car (even if Gabriel wasn't taking the plane with him he still accompanied him in person).

Compare it with the tour he had to go in "Risk", when this time it's Felix who gets 'ordered' to go to London, due to his disguise (he pretends to follow the commands), while Adrien got out of the house and he was just chilling at the park while all that was going on. His father (or, in this case, Nathalie, who had the ring and was going to take the train with him) didn't know they swapped places and Felix made sure they didn't notice, so they didn't question it. The real Adrien didn't react to their commands even if he was actively given orders with the amok. He wasn't home, he was outside of Range.

I mean, the Amok holder doesn't need to be glued to the Senti, or be physically heard by them, but they need to stay in the area next to them... I'd say around 50-100 metres diameter Range, to say a big number, but it might be way smaller or bigger?? If they're outside the Radius, the command doesn't transfer and the Senti won't follow it.

Speculation on the sizes of the Butterfly and Peacock/Amok Range:

If the Range is even smaller than the one I posted above (very likely, cuz that one is the maximum extension I think it might have), then I'd check out the area I circled below, which would explain why Adrien was able to run away and get to school the first time in 'Origins' s1 (the School and Mari's house are right outside the range)

Maybe the size of the Range varies depending on how large the Senti is, so like the Lollipop Monster, Strikeback and RedMoon are very big so their range's radius is like the picture above⬆️, while SentiBubbler, SentiBug, SentiAlec, SentiNino, Optigami, Adrien, Kagami and Felix's radius is more like in the pitcture below⬇️.

Aerial shot from 'The Bubbler' s1 with the buildings dispositions + possible Amok Range if it's a lot smaller than the one I lined in the Paris map I put above earlier:

Credit for the top pic (with text) ⬆️

If this Theory is true, then it could also explain why Gabriel and/or Emilie decided to keep their son in their home and never let him go out on his own (so he was in Range for control in case something happened to him or he misbehaved)

Maybe they haven't mentioned it in the series because they've got something planned about it with Adrien, one day? I think it might end up being part of the solution to protect the rings from controlling or hurting Adrien, Felix and Kagami, so they haven't openly talked about this yet.

Maybe 'Yaksi Gozen' s6 showed us one of the first steps towards the solution, as we now know Felix and Kagami are actively searching for a way to get those amoks safe and away from themselves.

Adrien being controlled from afar, "Adoration" s5:

The reason I think his request/order to Adrien to transform into ChatNoir didn't work in 'Gorizilla' s2 and why he was so desperate is because Hawkmoth was in his secret cove while Adrien was falling off a very distant Skyscraper (Mountparnasse Tower), which turned out to be too far away to control him (as we saw with SentiNino & SentiAlec who required Shadowmoth to be in the same building as them, it's the same tower)

Maybe Gabriel realized mid-fall that the amok wasn't controlling his son and he got even more desperate, which led him to let Ladybug free, realizing he really messed up with his plan and that he wasn't even sure of his suspicions, it was way too risky to try it so far away from him.

Sacrificing his son for some suspicions wasn't worth it, he still needed him for his plans or whatever (remember Gabriel wanted to make him inherit the Butterfly Miraculous to take his place at one point).

Or maybe the reason he initially lowered his guard and gave up on his suspicions is exactly that he didn't yet know Sentis had such a small range, so Adrien not responding to transform made him convinced that he's not Chat Noir.

But then in 'Ephemeral' (s4) he surely had already learned that Sentis have a range and/or how big it is, as he had been using the Peacock for a while at that point, so when Adrien said "Milady" his theory about his son being Chat Noir from season 2 (Gorizilla) came back to his mind, this time knowing that maybe his son didn't respond while falling off the building because he was too far away from him. So he "trapped" him in the basement and went super up-close to him, forcing him against Emilie's coffin and blocking his escape. He gave him the order right on his face, Adrien had nowhere to run, but still did his best to resist.

The fact Adrien has rebel tendencies does not go against what Santibeings have shown to be capable of in canon nor against my Range Theory -which actually explains how he can disobey-. Litterally the 3 most rebellious characters in the main cast are the Senti-Trio (Adrien, Kagami and Felix) and in the episode "Ladybug" in s3, Sentibug was able to act on her own mind and go against Mayura even WHILE she still was being controlled with the Amok by her (she told ChatNoir:"Ok, Good Job, you win! I am the fake Ladybug, but there's no way I'm letting you Cataclysm my earrings!!", Mayura replies:"WHAT!? Why does she..? No!! Not the earrings!!" this makes her come out of her hiding spot and blow her cover, since Sentibug wasn't following the plan anymore and CN was about to Cataclysm the real earrings). Then LB caught her Amok and gave it to Sentibug, who decided to side with the heroes immediately after she was granted freedom.

___

Each Miraculous has it's own Limitations (to avoid them being too op), these limits can vary depending on which one it is.

Like: the Dog can fetch anything anywhere, but there's only one ball; the Dragon can control elements, but it's just 3 of them; the Goat can make any object you can imagine, but it's not magical; the Rooster makes you choose a power, but you can't do 'wishes' or copy other Kwami's powers; the Horse lets you travel anywhere through Space, but not through Time (the Voyage always opens in the present); the Mouse lets you duplicate yourself into different copies, but you also get shrinked and less strong; the Ox protects you from magical damage and other Miraculous powers, but you still get hurt in non-magical physical hits; the Turtle instead protects you from physical damage but it can be destroyed with magic (Cataclysm) and so on.. All of them have something that balances them out.

Since the Butterfly and the Peacock seemed to have no limits other than "one at a time", them having a Range makes sense as another limitation. Especially since Butterfly's Concept is Transmission, which requires a connection between the Miraculous holder and the Akumatized person; and the Peacock's Concept is Emotion, which forms a connection between the Senti and your emotions.

Marinette's Map of Paris with Akumatized victims counts ('Mr.Pigeon 72' s4) & irl map of Paris with Miraculous locations:

finale redraw🤧🤧🤧🤧🤧🤧

YALL that was actually an awesome finale i cant wait until s5!!!!!! LOVESQUARE REVERSAL JFISOJFSKMLD

SEASON 2

Starting off with something small but important, she did not inform Chat Noir of a Guardian or explain to him how to reach him. If they talk regularly on patrols and are friends who relatively know each other, as the show pretends since they are supposed to do it enough to be “in love”, she would have been aware of Plagg’s not mentioning it to Chat (Which wasn’t told if it was a direct order from Fu), and the moment she started frequenting Fu she still should have made sure of it. 

If Plagg got sick and couldn’t guide Adrien, or something happened, he would have no way to reach Ladybug or get infos about how to find the Guardian, serious issues could have been raised. 

However, it’s true that before Syren, we weren’t aware that Fu apparently insisted on having Marinette not informing Chat about his existence, so we can blame part of this mostly to him. 

She, at least, tried to talk to Fu about including Chat more. If anything, we could blame that we didn’t get to see Fu explicitly telling her to not speak during their first encounter.

Another big flaw that got carried into the current season, even if not coherently, is Ladybug not revealing the identities of the temporary heroes to Chat. 

On one hand, it’s normal to think that being their identity, it would be their right to decide, just like it’s normal to consider that Fu might have been a big reason why Ladybug didn’t think of informing Chat. But again, we were never shown Fu actively saying to Marinette to not tell Chat, at least not clearly when she started giving out the temporary miraculous to the holders. She assumed it, which is understandable, but if they are partners on the level of equals, he should be kept in loop as much as her. 

If it was urgent and needed for him to find them, if he got into a situation where Ladybug was unavailable and he needed a back-up, he wouldn’t have been able to get help. Maybe, knowing where Fu is, he would get informed on their identities, but that would be only an exception, and it’s not said that Chat would have time to find Fu. Maybe Ladybug already got the Miraculous to give out, but she was trapped and Chat took it. At that point he would have to improvise.

This is generally most of what was wrong in season 2 regarding Ladybug’s attitude. It may not be as big and extreme as season 4, but here the roots were planted and there were barely efforts to fix them or deepen them to create a coherent plot point.

SEASON 3

Season 3 was more damaging as it seems under this perspective, because most of the plot holes that led to Chat being unfairly treated were introduced in this part of the show.

Let’s pick up again from Chat not knowing the temporary heroes. 

Ladybug didn’t inform Chat that other members know each other. If one of them was akumatized, it’s an objective risk he should be aware about. Aside from the fact that the rules were broken of course. It’s not a problem that they knew, it’s a problem he wasn’t made aware of it.

Another big issue is how he wasn’t informed at the moment Hawk Moth/Papillon learnt the identities in Miracle Queen.

This could be more of a plot hole and it probably is, but it became a pretext to continue on the road of Chat being kept in the dark. 

Maybe we can blame most of it on Fu again, but after Marinette became Guardian, even if trained by him, she still has to make her own choices and get responsibilities for them. She could have still realized that Chat needed to know these things.

Of course, there is a lack of good writing even on part of Chat. He isn’t stupid, he could have guessed once reached the battle ground and he could have easily questioned it to Ladybug. But still, Ladybug didn’t think of informing him and insisted on him not knowing (unless he was present already for other holders, but that’s a big incoherence). Either he shall know everyone’s or no one’s.

Shadow Moth knowing and not Chat, doesn’t hold logic or fairness. 

It’s an urgent matter. Chat should be informed about it so to draw his own conclusions and act if needed. 

And it’s also a morally wrong choice which Chat could have easily expressed if he wasn’t so forgiving and passive towards her (As I said, he has his own faults, but first and foremost he should be informed by her). If he was well written, he would have of course thought about how this would give the idea that Ladybug has a specifical worry against Chat in knowing ANY identity. Even more worried than HawkMoth knowing or putting at risk their working balance just to not let Chat know. 

In his shoes, he could even think, in a situation of self-doubts, that she trusted HawkMoth more, and saw Chat more as a danger.

Which seems extreme, but it’s a fair thought seeing how she acts.

This is furthermore supported by Multimouse’s resolution. It’s understandable Ladybug needed to find an excuse, for obvious reasons, but also her excuses at this point could have raised a lot of doubts in Chat.

Aside that Marinette is his supposed dear and close friend and sadly he didn’t even question anything, after everyone’s being compromised to Hawk Moth, Ladybug didn’t really need to keep Marinette out of commission. Sure, it came out Chat didn’t find out the other heroes’ identities, but Marinette was the only one not compromised and substituting her with PolyMouse in season 4 on the basis that it was because of her revealing to Chat could as well make him think the whole problem wasn’t Hawk Moth or others knowing, but him in the specific.

 Hawkmoth didn’t know her identity, only Chat, it made no sense for her to be replaced in Chat’s eyes. The minimum would have been to bring it up and have Ladybug find another excuse so to not let Chat think the worst about the situation. Perhaps taking advantage of her difficulty in justifying that Marinette cannot be called back, to make Chat understand that it is not a matter that depends on him, even if she insists not to tell him who the other members are. It would be a perfect trigger event.

One can say that since this didn’t happen, since the show (and Chat) didn’t bring it up, there’s no real reason to talk about it. But since we jump to assumptions on her care for Chat and justifications, even when they are not present in the show or not as they should, we can also add things that would surely count if the writing was good and coherent to the characters’ knowledge.

Couldn’t she come up with a better excuse? Like maybe the fact that since Marinette had to wear so many Miraculous together she had a magical overdose and was too drained of vital energy? So using a Miraculous again could affect her health? It would surely put at peace Chat Noir, it’s kind of realistic considering the rules and functioning of the jewels (ignoring that now characters wear 3 Miraculous together like nothing happens at all) and would have been perfect to either put the matter aside and not bring it up again or choose instead to work on it and make it a sub-plot, maybe giving chance also to develop more Marinette and Chat’s relationship or how he views her. 

This is more a stretch in matters of how much it was shown, but apparently Chat is not informed on all the things about the Miraculous. If he was an ally like the others, it would be understandable, but he is Ladybug’s partner and equal. He should be informed on what is important. Like the Grimoire, why it was so important. Sure, it creates complications in how to not wrap the plot too quickly, but there are ways to still inform him enough but not to suspect, in a realistic way, about his father ahead of time.

Another stretch, but a topic we can link to her “caring” about Chat Noir the whole series and making him feel important at times… another big mistake was how the balance between her as LadyNoire and Mister Bug was handled. Her thinking that Chat’s role is easy to fill is okay at the start, it’s a common banter many shows used for their characters if working in teams. But the episode didn’t end with her learning he is important or has a difficult and valid role, it ended with her having some fun and having a very easy time with his Miraculous.

If he learnt her role is difficult, she didn’t do the same, so if we take the show’s writing and how she easily substitutes him or forget about his feelings or presence, she didn’t learn from it and still thinks his role is easier and lighter. What was the point of that episode then?

Other small bits of elements we can take in consideration are also how in Desperada she wonders where Chat is and then talks about how they don’t need him in front of Adrien. We can argue that in the end she did need Chat and his cataclysm and admitted it, but more so the focus was on the fact that she needed the right Snake holder. And Adrien or no Adrien, even not considering that she should be developed at least enough by season 3 to not let something so small feelings wise to complicate a mission, since she is excused in her actions because she has to be “professional”, Chat is still an important member and friend. She doesn’t love him? He is still close enough not to talk about him like that, even if she is blinded by Adrien (Which again, by season 3 out of 5 for the main arc, shouldn’t be anymore the case).

Now we go into the biggest point, the one that created most misconceptions in the fandom.

Chat Blanc.

Let’s start with something clear. Chat should have been made aware of what happened if there is a fair partnership or a fair treatment at all of his role. It involves him, it’s about him, he should have known. 

Then, if we want to treat it as something that didn’t happen because Ladybug was traumatized from it, sure, it’s a possible road.

But if it was portrayed as such.

A trauma is shown through the series in acts and proofs, periodically, constantly. Marinette should have shown it when she talked, spoke, and thought about Chat and their partnership, or even having this experience getting in the way of her daily life.

We didn’t see during season 4 any of the real consequences of her stress as guardian. Lila didn’t create many issues, she didn’t lose friends, she wasn’t seen having bad time with school and grades, we didn’t see her parents doubting her, or her disappointing people’s expectations. We saw only her not being able to date Luka, a person she claimed to love and broke up with only because of her duties (Which says a lot about how her growth personally and as romantic relationships is treated. And how she is supposed to fall for Chat or really get to know Adrien. But it was said in a interview that Luka was supposed to create a bit of a mess by being the perfect guy to fall for, and Adrien being more than once listed as “perfect” in Marinette’s eyes about his qualities), but that was it.  

And if THAT wasn’t well portrayed and didn’t solidify a reason to justify her during the season stress-wise, how could it be the trauma from Chat Blanc that received the same treatment?

Every single link from her being so snappy and unfair to trauma from Chat Blanc is suppositions made by the fans who want to excuse her actions as PTSD/Trauma. We could believe so, but she never showed real hints about it, clear and confirmed. She never really gave proof and acted accordingly.

We never saw her having constant nightmares (only once and a unique hint of it all in Sentibubbler), we never saw her regretting her decisions and feeling conflict over her actions towards Chat or decisions concerning him. She never showed regret for leaving him in the dark or keeping him at arm’s length. If she was hit by trauma, she would be aware at least that she is doing it or want to keep a distance. And this is never portrayed.

She never expressed fear of falling in love with him even, she was always sure that she wasn’t in love with him and had no real concern about it. “She doesn’t realize she loves him deep inside”: no. 

This is just a supposition once again, it’s not a fact shown or stated. Her whole actions demonstrate the opposite. Someone who loves the other cares in every single action and act. Maybe they make mistakes but they care and suffer for them and for others and not just themselves (NY Special, which I’ll address later). 

Words speak louder with actions. So she can’t be excused about not informing him about Chat Blanc and leaving him in the dark about everything because she is afraid of him getting akumatized. She never showed it, she never acted traumatized, she never showed to depend on it to determine her actions.

Suppositions don’t really go far when the show doesn’t go accordingly, it will be always more fans trying to convince themselves.

You can’t base it on her trauma unless you show it. Show her hesitant and in fear that telling him would lead him to being akumatized. Otherwise, as being directly involved, it’s his RIGHT to know and there are no excuses. 

In real life Trauma can stay hidden and resurface later, but the signs are clear and surely there aren’t storytelling issues to take count of. If you’re writing a story, you have also some elements to portray to make the story flow with sense and coherence.

What kind of solution could have been found?

Remake Chat Blanc with other concepts in mind and other consequences.

Start from Glaciator, have Ladybug opening up bit by bit in what she can, have Marinette nurturing her friendship with Chat and eventually developing that surprise the heroine had into something more. Slowly getting more open minded and curious, she get also closer to him until, one day, she decides to give him the chance to try something together and she drops her transformation, hoping he still feels the same and perhaps he started liking her civilian self. 

That, makes her big and first mistake, dropping a bomb on him who, even if happy, start feeling a lot of pressure to keep her secure. They are in a relationship, he may or not reveal, but still HawkMoth notices his stress and starts targeting Ladybug specifically. Or even, he could discover Chat sees Marinette. And eventually things escalate and Chat is akumatized for despair but he doesn’t give infos to the villain, and destroys him like in the canon episode. Same consequences, different progression and turning point. Then, Bunnix goes back in time and takes Marinette before she decides to drop her transformation and brings her into the future, with the same events happening. 

When everything is fixed and she goes back to her own time, Marinette is even more hurt by the eventuality of being the cause of that, so even if she still has feelings for Chat, she needs to keep distance from him, even if suffering for it and blaming herself. She keeps doing so, substituting him, avoiding him, hurting him without really getting the consequences of her actions, keeps acting stressed, having nightmares, seeing Chat Blanc everywhere and having difficulties staying by her partner’s side, but faking to be okay. That all is okay.

At that point, it slowly goes down to her lashing out a bit (Not drastically, but still hurting him without meaning to) and the fracture is created in their partnership. 

It could even use an eventual Sandboy 2.0 as a possible increment of their division or to use it to help them fix the partnership.

Or, another options to stay closer to canon’s events: 

Adrien finds out exactly like in canon her identity, he decided to get to know Marinette better instead of jumping in a relationship and so he gets more and more enamored by her. To the point that Gabriel notices something has changed in his son, that he wants to spend more time out as a civilian, that he sneaks out to stay with Mari. Even Lila could inform Gabriel.

So he starts having someone spying on Adrien and eventually he finds out about Chat Noir and indirectly either he spies on Marinette and discovers her or he follows Chat Noir visiting her as hero (Implying Marinette could also get to know Chat and get closer to him) and uses her to akumatize him out of guilt and using other cards like his mother or his amok (It’s confirmed by now).

All this, permits to then give even the reason why the two shouldn’t get too close under any sense, instead of just not developing them but pretending they are.

The most important thing is also to focus on the real dangers of them knowing and getting in a relationship. Aka, not being ready emotionally or facing the dangers that are most concrete, not forcing Gabriel to find out with silly mistakes Adrien wouldn’t commit.

Their relationship and identities being discovered with their reveal to each other, it’s not a natural consequence. It’s a risk, but both in Chat Blanc and Ephemeral it was treated as something bound to happen if they shared their secret, which it isn’t. 

It’s more risky one of them being controlled, but if they were careful as they always were the chances of HawkMoth discovering something changed between them is very very low. 

 The ones I offered are just a couple of the plenty options, but of course, it wouldn’t be enough to just change this episode, but still taking the development and smear it way earlier since season 2 and keeping doing it after Chat Blanc too.

That’s why consistency is very important in a show to have actual characters’ development and in this show it lacks a lot.

SEASON 4

This season takes most of the previous mistakes and acts upon them to give the situation an explosion.

This choice is not itself a bad decision for the show. Creating a conflict between LadyNoir based on Marinette’s mistakes because of stress and guardianship is a valid choice that can give angst and interesting developments.

The problem lies in how everything is treated and that there is no actual development, nor bases to take this road with coherence.

There is much to address but we will start from the very start and try to go over everything.

She reveals to Alya and doesn’t inform him. 

Of course, Marinette’s identity is hers to do as she wishes. We didn’t really have a promise between the two that they would be each other’s first choice. Maybe it could have been implied but it wasn’t made a point of importance. 

The problem is not much that she vented and revealed to Alya, if anything it should have been made way earlier in the show for writing reasons. The real issue is that she didn’t inform her partner of what happened. And she didn’t then tell him about Rena Furtive or Alya keeping her miraculous permanently. 

It wouldn’t be a huge problem if he was a sidekick or general ally, but they are supposed to be equals and solid rules were established for them both to maintain. 

The show didn’t address it, so we don’t have proof unfortunately to say that they cared about revealing (at least, not on Marinette’s side.) or felt the urge to do it, even after taking down their enemy. Chat surely did, but Ladybug never and they never made a promise between them. And she never has shown fear in him not liking her behind the mask and disappointing his expectations, even if I find it a very valid take fanon-wise to give her more character.

The rules spoke clearly, no reveals. But it’s a general rule. “No one has to know”, so if something happened, the problem is not really that Alya discovered before Chat. It would be if CN and LB promised each other something, or we can even suppose it would have been fairer towards Chat. 

The problem is that her identity was compromised in the first place and he is to be informed to act as consequence and take precautions, or problems can rise like in Hack-San.

Marinette never had any intention to inform Chat about having told someone. She never showed regret about it aside in Hack-San when she was found out and Alya pushed her and Sentibubbler but more because of a sudden and casual fear of Alya betraying her. So, this isn’t about Chat being informed, she really didn’t think about it, if she did she gave no weight to it. 

It was Alya telling her to talk to Chat in Hack-san, if she didn’t Ladybug wouldn’t have done anything. Alya, who was his partner only for a day, could see more how he was affected and consider his position.

And still regarding this episode, she left and didn’t inform him. Surely he made the same mistake in the NY Special and he paid for it, showing remorse and being nervous about not having informed her.

Marinette may have left him with a substitute, but she was able to. Chat wouldn’t have left his miraculous to someone else, since apparently he is the only one not spilling secrets around ironically. 

Yet, when she made the same mistake she didn’t get the blame he did, he didn’t lash out on her like she did, even after how he had to find out such a thing. 

And she didn’t feel sorry of not warning him, unlike he did all along.

A simple call would have been enough. A quick bathroom break to leave him a message and then tell him she would explain once she was back. Still wrong not telling him before about revealing to someone, but at least she would have shown consideration and efforts in fixing her mistake.

Marinette may have done a long list for Alya (Very scrupulous in this, but not in taking a minute to give him heads-up) and added to laugh at his jokes cause they make him happy, but if in the same episode she fails over and over again to consider really the impact of her actions, the most important and fundamental ones, how really can that be relevant?

In the end of the episode, she promised to never abandon him, but did she really take into account his fears? 

Worrying about seeing someone important disappear without knowing what happened is terrifying. It happens in real life, on the internet… and if you care about said person it eats you alive. 

Chat may be too forgiving, but he expressed a serious fear that should have been faced by Ladybug with consideration that goes beyond an empty promise she will break even.

She can promise that, of course, and break it as a plot point, but this is furthermore proof of how superficial the whole thing is and how difficult it is to excuse her. 

How can you promise that you won’t end up in an accident? That something won’t happen? You fall sick? You can’t promise that will never happen. It’s cruel to do so, even if she doesn’t know that many people abandoned him in his life. 

You may say that with optimism, but you need to also give some back-up to show you really got seriously his fear and share it.

Doesn’t Ladybug worry about seeing him vanish suddenly one day? Maybe learning something happened and he died without her never seeing him again, saying goodbye or revealing?

Did she offer a solution or compromise? Some sort of realistic element to make him feel better? Leaving a clue, a letter or something for her relatives, where she would ask to inform him if something happened. Write something to give him in case she wouldn’t be there anymore so he would know who she was and she cared even if she didn’t have the chance to tell him in person. 

Encouraging that once all was over with Shadow Moth they could reveal, so to pump his spirits a bit, show she wanted to know as much as him, since she never showed fears about him being disappointed in Marinette.

None of this was made. How much can we say then that his worries really are taken into account?

Or even, why didn’t she think of giving him a chance to find someone to reveal too? As much as she doesn’t know about his home life (Which is more because she doesn’t let them open up, or the writers not giving space to know really how much they know each other personally without compromising infos in the way), on contrary to her beliefs and the show’s writing, his romance with her isn’t his only concern. He still is the bearer of the cat miraculous and it’s an objective weight.

Again, plot-wise it’s okay it passed from her mind, only if Chat showed to be bothered of having no one to open up to. This way, it only seems to lack her considerations or thinking.

This is small, but still important if we want to take everything into account: you tell your colleagues if you are not showing up for patrols. One thing is not showing up if the meeting is casual and more Chat hoping for her to appear and getting his hopes up. Another thing is having set patrols to which, even if you have other important duties, you didn’t stand up professionally. It’s important to inform you won’t show up, even more so if those patrols also hold the scope of spending time with someone important that you can’t frequent outside the mask. 

She forgot? it’s okay, just think about it later, realize and feel a bit sorry! You made a mistake, you were careless and forgetful but at least you show you cared about it.

Chat isn’t seeked or waited most of the time, she doesn’t actively seek him anymore unless she needs at all costs his power. He is her last thought and need, she easily replaces him. Which of course, if case calls should be something to be ready to do, but not so often without worrying. Not so easily.

She makes plans for “two people” but doesn’t give him heads-up. It shouldn’t be something so easy to brush off. He may be very loyal and would back her up, she may trust him to adapt, but for now we don’t know if it’s that or just her not considering it.

So even her “joke” or sarcasm about not knowing each other or she would have seeked him out, it’s really uncalled for. A joke should be ironic at least, even if it doesn’t make you laugh. (Optigami)

She insists on not revealing while people, including herself, are breaking the rules all over… aside him.

Now, I know this is something people discussed plenty on, but I want to try addressing it anyway.

Glaciator 2 for me was one of the episodes with most potential, maybe it showed the deepest part of Marinette and Chat, when they interacted.

Sure, Marinette confessed something to him in the cinema that doesn’t really stand to how she actually acts, but it was a try to put a patch on her character mess. Their interactions in the episode were both funny and endearing (This is what happens when you make two characters actually act as friends and make them get to know each other truly). 

But, Ladybug’s reaction was way over the top. 

Gossip is a thing that exists, as a public figure it’s understandable that it can be pressuring, but it’s also something to get used to. She may be stressed, but lashing out like that remains exaggerated. She acted almost repulsively towards him. 

Chat surely was wrong in pushing just a few lines, we could even pretend he needed to give her more space and lay down with the flirting etc…

It was a lesson for him, but in the same episode she acted as badly towards Adrien, if not worse. She cared about cheering him up so he could fall for her, again fell in her obsession and acted superficial (The gifts weren’t even all handmade like everyone thought). It was shallow, the meanings behind an action count and her acting so furious and exaggerated with Chat was even more out of place with how she acted after. 

But only Chat was the one who had to learn all the lessons of the episode.

I would also like to note that Ladybug never outright said to Chat she will never like him romantically or what he can’t or not do in her regards. She said there was another boy. So she could have fallen for Chat, she just didn’t in the show (Which makes Luka’s presence a bit more pointless romance-wise. She never showed thoughts of giving Chat a chance, even if it meant giving up on it for Chat Blanc. And she didn’t learn from her relationship with Luka on how to treat Adrien).

Yet she flirted back and acted in ways that can make a person still get hopes up. So, again, she holds part of blame if he insisted on it. You put the boundaries? Be clear on your intention, that you being affectionate and flirting back doesn’t mean anything. Otherwise, don’t react as harshly.  

It’s okay getting mad for the timing, but aside that, there’s no reason to throw him in a trashcan. It’s not fun, it’s not a gag or a joke. You portray the scene differently if it was, not with “serious” implications and pressure for him to be wrong about his attitude. Not with how she was even freaking out in stopping the media, almost obsessed to stop the rumors. Is she frantic? It’s okay to do so, but again, show valid reasons. Show that she has flashbacks of Chat Blanc and freaks out because her viewing Chat romantically is possible and she is scared that it will lead to that event happening. Show her having fear, not seeming crazily obsessed with her anger. Otherwise, it just proves that she isn’t unaware of loving Chat, she just doesn’t for real and is almost repulsed to the idea.

And yes, it was a cute thing her asking him for practice, but this if their visits as Marichat friendos were regular and she didn’t just approach the whole situation with him as Ladybug like that. 

Okay, he doesn’t know yet, but if she had the minimal intention to reveal someday she should worry that he would be hurt to know that in a day she pushed him away like that and also asked him to get her with someone else without him knowing. While he suffered over his feelings.

Now, onto Sentibubbler and Rocketear. 

I mentioned before that Sentibubbler holds the only true hint of Ladybug having trauma due to Chat Blanc, but it happens only once and it’s due to her choice to trust someone who would betray her, not because of the fear of losing Chat directly. 

This episode also introduces some of the signs of Chat’s feeling left out and how him not being aware of some fundamental infos can get in the way of the mission or lead to him being captured. 

He should have been informed of Rena Furtive, if he was really still considered Ladybug’s equal.  

The problem of his lack of knowledge re-presents in Rocketear, where he suddenly finds out that Rena and Carapace are Alya and Nino (and dealing with Nino’s lashing and more doubts for his self-confidence). Aside the fact that, as mentioned ahead, he should know the temporary heroes’ identities, at least he should have known that they are still called in case even if they were compromised. 

This not only is a problem for his involvement in the team, but also can naturally find another link to the Multimouse case and the dangers of him knowing. 

The holders who were compromised by HawkMoth, their villain, are still called in action, however the only one who didn’t, and was found only by Chat himself, is left out. Isn’t it normal to have doubts on everything? Where trust is really held about his regards?

Ladybug in the same episode says she trust him about not hitting on Alya knowing she is taken, but she also acts exasperated when she explains her why Chat was on her balcony. Does it take an akuma caused by the situation and Chat being beaten up for her to think he isn’t a playboy? She is supposed to know him by now. He jokes but his feelings are genuine.

Moving on to Ephemeral…

This episode was kind of a mess. Both in the rhythm, both is the fact that Ladybug says she loves Adrien and not Chat, ruining every small bit of possibility she would like Chat deep inside and developed a bit in 4 seasons.

 Let’s not call it just her being unaware, she gave support to what she said the whole series. The only time she showed possible hints of starting to think about Chat differently was Glaciator in season 2 after seeing him in a new light and considering the whole picture… and a possible foreshadowing in Kagami’s quote about the manga ending up with the two people practicing falling for each other.

But this is never supported in the series, she was serious about not loving Chat. This shows how behind she is in her development as character and as relationships. She could have these doubts if Ephemeral happened in season 1, not in the second last. 

Was it really necessary to wait until the end of season 4 to have her realizing that Adrien is not perfect, he is a normal person with flaws and that they never speak enough or properly, so to consider themselves close friends? If friends at all?

True is that he hides a lot of his feelings and natural attitudes as Adrien, but if that love she feels has at least some bases, has some genuinity, shouldn’t it be represented differently? With her maybe seeing through the attitude? Seeing he is not perfect and she likes him also for it?

By season 4, it’s like there was no progress at all between the two. 

Then again, all I said about her feelings for him now is more to note how we can’t say for sure she likes him and acts badly because she cares. She didn’t show it.

Still in Ephemeral we have 2 more problems. 

The first is how she brushed off Chat after insisting on talking to him, like if the matter wasn’t important. But this is the lesser grave between the two.

The other is about her plan to let SuHan know Chat’s identity.

I didn’t see many people talk about it, maybe because it didn’t seem a bit deal, but for me this is something extremely concerning. 

Her being willing to find out Chat Noir’s identity with a trick and making him reveal it to other people without his consent or knowledge. Guardian or not, trying to have him revealing to someone else by using his trust for her is a very unfair and dishonest thing. Aside from forgetting herself, she wanted someone else to discover it and without him being aware. It’s his identity and he has the right to decide who to reveal to, even more than the temporary heroes, unless it’s a direct guardian order (then again, if they are also partners who are supposed to be equal, this is questionable). 

Luka knowing already or not doesn’t matter (even if he did a mistake in agreeing and not confessing that he knows), the problem is the intentions Ladybug had. If he wasn’t Adrien, how would it have ended? Would the plan work? Couldn’t she just be honest with Chat? He surely would have helped find a solution.

Ladybug knew exactly where to hit to get Chat to give her his identity. She knew about how much he cares for her, she knew she had to use that to convince him, even knowing which words, addressing very valid points that support why they should know. Points he thinks and agrees on. She manipulated (let’s try to think it not maliciously, as much as possible) the situation, his feelings, his ideas, to her own advantage. This is a typical villain attitude, not one of a superheroine who is supposed to care about her partner and dear friend. 

One thing would be if she showed remorse about it, another is not. Using someone’s deep feelings and vulnerability, a friend, against them without even considering to come off as honest... doesn’t seem a nice action. 

They had Viperion resetting her attempts... why not coming clear in one and asking him directly explaining the situation? If you want to show that she really knows him well, that she was right about him not revealing unless she used a tricky tactic to hit the right spot of his heart and brain, why not just... prove it? 

Now, let’s move to one of the biggest problems of this season.

Kuro Neko.

You can be stressed, traumatized, but that is NOT an excuse to lash out on people when they are not doing anything wrong. This is a basic point. 

For no reason you should treat or lash out on someone like that. 

Then, Chat in Glaciator 2 learnt to not push and even if the pun may wasn’t on spot as timing, he was genuine about his concern to help and was clear about it. She saw it even. 

She was losing time, yes, but she had no reason to be so harsh because the situation wasn’t urgent. If she trusts the other heroes to do their job then she knows there is the possibility of needing to recharge before going to pick all the miraculouses back. She said it herself, she knew where they were, she could go to them a few minutes later after filling Chat in. 

We can’t say she wasn’t pissed for him being late, say that she was aware he needed a break and that her words later to Plagg implied she was okay and understanding with him for not being present because her actions don’t go accordingly. She never showed genuine concern towards him for the matter, the few times she approached him in past was when it was clearly visible he was upset and one of the two it was Alya pressing her to do so. She didn’t even notice, as said earlier, that he needed to talk, in a situation where it’s only normal even if you don’t know the other’s feelings. Something so objectively plain and important to talk about, she didn’t consider.

That harshness is out of question, angry or not, understandable or less, you don’t lash out like that, if you do at least after realizing you apologize. Since he showed up she seemed pissed, at being so at the first occasion she sees him it's not really something that proves her “understanding” of his mental health. 

And her reasons for feeling rushed to begin with were easy to fix.

She could have no idea of how long the fight would last, detransforming before picking back all the jewels is possible and I don’t think she wouldn’t trust the others to wait up a few minutes more. Some of them were still transformed, Chat could easily track down the miraculouses with his own baton and pick them up, or wait for her to recharge and explain to him the location of them as civilians. Or, if for Rena it was too complicated to watch out for both Ladybug and Chat, he still could have gone with her.

Rena Fortive was probably out looking and Ladybug could easily give the other heroes heads-up to wait a tiny bit more. Mylene even said she could feed her kwami herself.

Her phrase during the interview is another concerning fact. 

You can be pissed but there is a basic respect for people, even more partners and friends. Not only she went against her own words and contradicted her bond with him, but also gravely treated him. 

Under a certain perspective, calling him a “partner like any other” could be seen as defending him for his absence, but it’s clear this is not the case.

Let’s remember that Chat Noir is not like any other hero. He was chosen alongside Ladybug to be a permanent member, to work with her as other half and his presence is not optional. He is not like the others who can be called in, whether he is needed or not. 

Cataclysm or not, he has to be there and be present because that is his asset, he is fundamental for the team and necessary alongside Ladybug. They are the team that fixes the problem. Master Fu chose both of them and their roles are still the same, bonus heroes or not. He was chosen to be THERE. Always.

And the people, civilians and viewers, know this very well. The journalist had a right to be worried and ask about Chat Noir’s absence cause he is the root of the team with Ladybug, he is fundamental even when he isn’t needed in terms of powers. He is supposed to be there and the civilians are no tdumb, they understand there was a shift. Downgrading Chat Noir to a partner like the others just reflects what Ladybug thinks about him.

Author, the show, the premises, keep telling that they are equal, a duo. But Ladybug doesn’t think so anymore. She said it in Ephemeral, how they are not anymore a duo and a team, she said it in Risk, that he is now just another holder (with the consolation of being her favourite) and now too. She doesn’t see him anymore as her equal or specific partner, she sees him like the other temporary heroes, just with a more powerful miraculous.

There’s a difference between her unknowingly sidelining Chat and being mean because of her trauma, but still caring about him like no one else and knowing he is impossible to replace... to her not thinking so anymore. It’s two opposite things that clash. 

It would be okay if she made those mistakes with a solid background behind that proves she really thinks he is impossible to replace, they are a duo and she suffers from the distance between them, even if maybe she doesn’t realize her actions are putting him in a corner alone. But she isn’t doing it for this. 

Her words need to be accompanied by actions and for her, he is a hero she can substitute anytime.

“Your friendship is the most important thing for me”. Chat said it clearly, for him Ladybug is important as friend and partner and she said previously she sees him as friend too, not just a partner. 

And she jumped into blaming his romantic feelings without trying to understand that Chat cares about her fully as a friend and important person and not just for those (Even if aside from Glaciator and other few times maybe he wasn’t so skilled in showing it. Sometimes it’s indeed made it seem like he cares only for that, but it was done the same for Marinette in regards to Adrien, so it’s a problem in the portrayal of their feelings).

Marinette, the whole time, blamed his problems on his feelings and acted upon it, without fully considering his position. Plagg surely shouldn’t have remarked again that Chat loves her romantically, this is a very huge mistake from the writing. Pushing everytime only the romantical side of the situation when most of it isn’t related to the romance but to their partnership, friendship and Adrien’s family situation, is very damaging for this topic. And of course, Ladybug takes it as it’s only about romance. This again is a big mistake from Plagg but at this point of the series I’d like to think that Ladybug knows that Chat cares for her regardless of romantic feelings, as he told her more than once and as I think she would know not to make assumptions on someone’s private life. He, romance or not, cares about Ladybug as friend and partner, enjoys her company and would gladly do anything for her even if he wasn’t in love with her. Chat even told her in Hack-San, he is scared to lose her, he cares a whole lot even when she didn’t show to reciprocate the same worry.

Why did she assume he would be okay, without knowing his situation and without considering that he is still her main partner and friend. She was ready to just blame his feelings, be ready to give up on him with the excuse of not hurting him, but not even showing the will of keeping him in her life. She needed a Chat Noir, not her Chat Noir, and the episode never explains why it should be otherwise.

I’d like to note that I understand in this case, the general dialogues were not appropriately chosen and that Ladybug has more the fault of rushing into her decision and not thinking more about Chat’s reasons, rather than the assumption itself that romance in involved. It’s more a writing issue.

However, going on, we still face issues.

We assume Marinette cares because of seeing her stressed, but to have proof of it we need to see her feelings. 

There was no focus on his absence as a person, but only as a holder. No tears, no panic, no pain, it was totally different than New York.  Where was the desperation? Where were the doubts?

A first moment of anger is understandable, it’s also very understandable that she has a role so she needs to look out for what she has to do and not just what she wants. But there was no portrayal of her leaking feelings of pain. 

It would have surely worked better to show her sorrow, her feelings in conflict, between wanting her Kitty back and needing to pick a new Cat holder as soon as possible. 

Saying it was implied it’s not as addressing it. We can’t say her stress and “depression” were due to her missing Chat because so far, no feelings were shown about it clearly. And it wasn’t even addressed. If it’s not shown we can as well say it wasn’t there.

The only thing she showed was urgency in finding someone as substitute and her state of exhaustion didn’t portray desperation in the lack of her dear partner, but in the lack of a solution for her duty. She didn’t spend any second of the episode missing her partner specifically and wanting him back. 

There was no thought about needing to seek him out as a civilian to know him outside her life, almost if she didn’t give importance to meeting him ever again at all. Doesn’t she want Chat in her life in future after all is over? Wouldn’t she want him as a friend in her normal life? Is she okay with just seeing him disappear forever? Was then his fear in Hack-San a one-sided feeling?

She didn’t see her mistakes, she didn’t consider her actions wrong until one single moment in which she thought she drove him to be akumatized.

(Which proved she is not traumatized of him being akumatized or fears for it as much it seems, not really showing any panic for the situation or remembering Chat Blanc. Her confusion while battling was the surprise of the situation, not about him being akumatized at all. Otherwise there would be more pressure over the fact that something she tried to “avoid”, she ended up doing anyway.)

But the first time she felt kind of guilty, she blamed it on him regretting leaving his miraculous and not on how she treated him.  And even remarked how she knows him well, contradicting all her actions and beliefs the whole season. 

She tried to “apologize” for not seeing how sad he was, commenting how he was probably pissed to see a substitute, but again not taking into account her actions or how she treated him until later, where however, she cares more about how she failed as “guardian” and not as “partner” or “friend”.

Once more, she proved she has a different view of their relationship and roles in the team. She didn’t see her actions as in her failing towards a special partner and friend, but only towards a simple asset to the team, no more than how she should treat any other hero. 

But Chat isn’t. 

And the worst problem is how she is excused and her doubts right away washed away by HIM. 

The episode tries to focus on the moral that he should just accept the situation, that it was all about him and to shove down his feelings, in saying it’s okay as long as he self-appreciate.

“His feelings for you don’t mean you need to treat him differently” it’s a cute and right message if it was only about her unrequited feelings, but here we are talking about how she acted towards him all the season as friend and partner. Not just about a not reciprocated crush. 

He was left out, treated differently and felt bad about it and as a partner, friend and human-being, it’s only natural and fair to think about it. To care. Because Chat is not a hero like the others, romance or not.

“You take care of everyone the same way”, it’s only proving that when she spoke about him being a partner as any other she meant exactly that and the episode, the writing, supports exactly that.

He is like the others and shouldn’t be treated as more, with more regard, as in his role isn’t anymore the one of before, as in now his importance is reduced. 

Now even Chat is accepting it. But Chat was the one who convinced her to stay a hero, who supported her, who was there since the start and is supposed to be her best friend with the mask and main partner. Having more heroes doesn't imply his role is lowered down if she takes more instead. His treatment should be the same as before. He should be treated with the same amount of consideration, respect and care as before. 

So his feeling left out does matter. She should treat him differently, or at least the same as the start. Because he has a different role professionally and emotionally wise than the others.

Let’s make an example, a bit stretched but that could make it more relatable:

You and another person are taken to work for a failing company and made the heads. You two become friends and partners, have the same importance, balances roles and work with the same goal and power. You are the one who gave courage to your partner to keep working with you and your partnership both emotionally and professionally is stronger than ever. This brings the company to be stable and improve. 

The head then starts bringing in more of your partner into the higher department until they leave the ownership to them. Since then, you are no longer treated with the same regard, you don’t hold the same aspects of the partnership anymore and are shoved at the same level of the other workers, not being able to do the job you once did, to be consulted on the things you once were consulted for...

You are downgraded to a lower level and not told, you have to get it by yourself. Even if you are part of the reason the company survived, even if you worked very well, now you are not anymore in the same position as before and both professionally and relationship-wise you are treated as any other. 

Your ex-partner says they care but they don’t treat you for the role you had and are supposed to hold.

And then, eventually, even if you feel like it’s unfair, you need to accept that you deserve to be included less, to have less recognition and take the same role of the others because as long as you know you are a good worker it’s alright.

It’s okay to shove all away as long as you know your work has value (maybe metaphorically even underpaid), to settle for less and discard what you’ve done in past and let people treat you less than what they did. 

Why make the episode about Adrien’s self-worth when he acts totally opposite of it in the episode and one of the messages is exactly this? Why should Chat downgrade his feelings and role when the episode speaks about self-acceptance?

Isn’t it pretty similar to Adrien’s homelife situation? Settling for what his father wants? I’m not saying we shall hate Marinette, but we hate Gabriel and call his parenting abusive. Doesn’t then the writing of this situation hit too close? Doesn’t it give some weird messages?

Because the episode uses Chat understanding to treat himself fairly, to accept a situation where he is not treated fairly.

Another big problem is how the episode is not clear about its intentions in the meaning and how Ladybug reaches the conclusion about Chat Noir being better than Cat Walker. 

Because literally, we have no explanation for it. Why is Chat Noir better? Why Imperfection is better than perfection? Does she want Chat Noir back because she feels like it’s the best thing to do for the job or because of her feelings? Why does she prefer Chat?

If at the end of the episode Ladybug says to him that even if he isn’t always needed he is needed (to her), it implies she already knows and it’s a lesson for him to learn. Then why during the episode it’s her learning it? And why is it not explained how she learns it? 

What did she learn?

All we saw was that she was surprised by the new member, but she found him perfect all along, she was attracted to him and never once showed preference to Chat Noir. She said it herself, she “tried everything” to make the Lucky Charm work with Catwalker, because she genuinely wanted him as a partner. She wanted the perfection alongside her, someone who acts and doesn’t question, someone who doesn’t feel excluded. She wanted the perfect partner and tried anything to make it work. 

And not only she did so, but she thought the Lucky Charm told her that the partner didn’t fit, she didn’t do it because she realized herself that it wasn’t meant to be. Let’s remember that the Lucky Charm is just an object and that it’s Ladybug figuring out how to use it, sometimes it has multiple ways to work and many of them she didn’t need the Cat power to make it work. Many times she did it by herself, so this case too she probably could have done it by herself (which she did), simply she wanted to include at all costs CatWalker, as much as possible, because she liked him and wanted to be right about having a better partner now. She wanted the thing to work.

So, does she prefer someone perfect or imperfect? And why the imperfect? Because the Lucky Charm pointed it out?

Was there a real reason portrayed as to why he was “too perfect”? On why the “imperfect” Chat Noir was better? Professionally and emotionally?

On a side her phrase to him a bit after “Do you feel upset? Don’t you feel sad and excluded?” when she says she doesn’t need him but the other Chat could imply she got that her ex-partner wasn’t to leave aside, but taking everything into account, it implies more how she worries about having someone who doesn’t lament on feeling excluded.

If she got Chat was indeed excluded why didn’t she apologize still at the end? Wasn’t it her mistake since she treated him differently and left him in the dark? So which mistakes was she supposed to realize or realized to work better?

Ladybug blushed (And we leave out the values of her romantical tastes) and appreciated how CatWalker was okay with her choosing to not use him in her plan and when she was reassured he wasn’t feeling left out. Then what is really important for her? The feelings of her partner or not having issues with a partner feeling unsettled and giving her troubles?

It doesn’t make her seem someone who cares, if it was the intention, but someone who is shallow and uncaring.

She didn’t choose Chat because she wanted it or because she felt like her feelings asked for it. Nor because she worked better with him. She chose him because he is someone who does his job, who does everything she says and trusts her enough to follow her around and agree with her always with no buts. Her only problem with him is that he felt excluded, which was an issue for her habits in working. 

Catwalker was too perfect because he may was even more professional than her and didn’t listen when she told him to trust her that the villain was akumatized Chat. Chat would have just gone with her convictions. 

She wanted Catwalker as a partner and was ready to substitute Chat with him, and did everything to prove she could but eventually failed.

This is a very easy interpretation to take.

And this leads to the main problem of the episode. The ending.

She didn’t apologize in the end for anything. Not for how she treated him the whole season, not for what happened in the episode. HE apologized for having feelings, for not being treated fairly. He just settled with the situation as he always does. 

He surely had part of blame for not speaking up more decisively to her, and is half of why they have miscommunication problems, but was it all on him? Most of this was on her.

We could try to say she regretted it, that she realizes needs him specifically, but if we can’t see the real motives on why, if we don’t even see an apology, if she doesn’t realize her mistakes… then what’s the point?

What is the point of saying “Only because sometimes I don’t need you it doesn’t mean I don’t need YOU”, if again it all comes down to him exaggerating and her not seeing what she has done all the season? If she doesn’t even say a simple sorry?

Aside that her words don't really fit the construction of the episode, how she implies that it was for him the lesson to learn when in the episode it was more up on her as demonstration. In the fight, it’s CatWalker opening up her eyes. So where does the final phrase come from? Why is it made once again about him?

Aside we don’t know what she learnt, it was about her learning too. In the end, all that Chat learnt was to adapt to the situation.

What was the point of the sub-plot again? If it was again all minimized? Then wasn’t it fair for people to worry that she wouldn’t work to fix her mistakes and issues? That she wouldn’t work hard for it?

Words are cute but they need actions to be proved, once again it was all pushed on him as if she didn’t commit anything.

A parallel of Hack-San where she went to him to apologize (pushed by Alya and not on her own, and not for all she has done), but with him apologizing for having fair feelings. The first time where he was understanding, while she acted like waiting for his apology and rubbed again her words of him being irreplaceable but with no explanation, proof or actions from her so far to confirm it. 

“No one will, ever, replace you”

Someone was going to, she was ready to and was almost okay with it, even with the perspective of never seeing him again. And she didn’t show otherwise the whole season.

The episode just showed that if Chat didn’t have feelings for her, he could reach perfection even as a superhero and can be on par with Ladybug. Under all senses, even strategic wise.

This episode is the top of the messed up moralism and one of the most problematic and confusing as writing, which characters acting in conflicting ways and eventually, doesn’t wrap at all a big and full sub-plot of the season. 

The problem isn’t only that she lashed out on him so excessively. It’s that we lack the development to it. And it concluded with nothing.

Marinette isn’t traumatized, she never showed in the series to be so affected. While her reaching this point of rocture with Chat, once again I think, is natural as a possible outcome, it’s not justified writing wise. She had no real big reasons shown to act like that. She showed no remorse the whole season in her actions or actual difficulty in approaching her partner. So this is objectively out of nowhere. 

This repetitive attitude she had was never faced by her side with remorse. 

You can’t, as stressed as you may be, treat someone like that more than once. If it was a few times with fair background supporting those mistakes, it would be okay. But not like this.

And in the end, this being portrayed as the episode that would resolve the sub-plot, everything was wrapped wrongly. 

And even more confusing it gets if we look into the season finale...

Risk - Strike Back

The season finale brought up again the sub-plot even after it was “wrapped up” somehow, maybe not with the best message. 

Let’s start with something fundamental we see at the start of the episode “Risk”, after Ladybug’s team defeats the newest victim, Chat Noir asks if he can come with her to take all the Miraculous and once again she has to deny (not by words, but her silence speaks enough to give him the answer). Since Chat already knows some of the identities and he is supposed to be Ladybug’s equal and partner, it’s only natural to think he could help out with this and know more about the temporary holders, because if needed he should know infos to act accordingly. It’s understandable that it’s risky now and Rena has to look out from distance for enemies, but wouldn’t Chat be only a bonus security?

But that aside, when he expresses his resignation, he confirms what was already suspected, to then be confirmed again by Ladybug who agrees. “Now I’m just a holder like any other” 

“Yep, but you’ll always be my favourite”. 

They just confirmed that they are not equal anymore, that they never were treated so and that when Ladybug spoke in Kuro Neko about Chat being a partner like any other, she was meaning exactly that, not defending him. 

Chat was degraded all along without knowing, he had to face it himself by growing more and more disappointed, until he exploded. To then be told again he was exaggerating, it was all about his love and him not accepting himself. 

This is already a big problem, because while on a side it’s understandable as angsty sub-plot, to drag on the dispute between the two heroes, it wasn’t treated as something wrong, or something unfair. And it wasn’t either something she was shown to feel guilty about, if not a little when he complained at the start of this episode. 

But moving on...

With Chat affected by Risk’s powers (Which doesn’t help in the writing of any of the two characters. Is basic conversation a risk? Opening your heart a little? After so much time of apparently getting to know each other? This is for both Adrien and Marinette finally talking like normal and him sharing his worries, and also Chat and Ladybug facing the situation they are in. I think in this case the use of an akuma was greatly wrong, since they’re supposed to be close characters), he lets his anger and dissatisfaction speak aloud more and so he starts arguing with Ladybug. 

We are shown, finally, her remembering about Chat Blanc, but this is only provoked by him addressing directly the topic of them being akumatized. It’s not brought up by her own fears, trauma or by the debate between the two, by the whole “keeping him at distance”. It’s once again related to the identities. 

And once again, Chat reminds her that of course he can’t know, since she doesn’t speak to him about anything at all. 

We can skip forward through Chat feeling left aside because she wants to protect his power, or him feeling excluded when he sees her so happy around Felix (don’t make me spell his hero name pls), but then we reach the most important point, that addresses the whole menaging of this sub-plot. It doesn’t resolve it, it doesn’t wrap it up, it just confuses more on the true intentions in handling it. 

“I wanted to control everything. I didn’t listen to you, I lied to you, I kept you at distance”.

First note about her admitting her mistakes at the end of the episode, after being partially defeated; she isn’t apologising. This isn’t an apology, there are no words implying it and surely she isn’t saying it out loud. This is an admission of mistakes. Perhaps we can say it wasn’t the best situation, but if this was meant to wrap up the whole thing, then surely something big is lacking. Her apology is fundamental since she just admitted all along it was her own actions and mistakes the problem and that they were a willing choice. 

But then we turn back and face Kuro Neko. That episode and this admission of the finale, contradict each other.

What was the point of Kuro Neko? The premise was that with Chat blowing up and giving up his Miraculous, it was set up to resolve or reach the highest moment of tension of the sub-plot... but it didn't. We didn’t get Ladybug realising her mistakes, we didn’t get an apology from her. We got one from him, who wasn’t in the wrong in the first place. The whole episode, aside focusing again on the point of his romantic feelings, which weren’t really supposed to be one of the focuses, gives the final message that she wasn’t in the wrong. He was. 

Plagg accused her openly, even if again addressing the romantical feelings which aren’t even that important in the whole sub-plot and scheme of things. He said that she mistreated Chat, but she didn’t come off as guilty, as aware of her actions. “I’m sorry but I’m just doing my best to be a Guardian” She seemed surprised about it all, not even realising before she was making him feel excluded and vulnerable. Ladybug even admits to thinking it was a good break for him and it only seems natural overall for her to think he is now a member like any others, aside owning the Black Cat miraculous. 

But if she wasn’t aware, how come in the finale she admits to keeping him at arm’s length? Surely, she could have realised later on, but we didn’t see her realising it, thinking about it, feeling guilty. She knows Chat, she also can put herself in his shoes, it would be so natural to know that he must be feeling bad about the situation. Then why we never saw her addressing it? Isn’t it a willing choice due to her “trauma”?

She used so easily his trust in her in Ephemeral, without even consulting him and never feeling a doubt until he revealed and surely because he was Adrien, not because of her actions, so why in all this she never showed regret or guilt or sadness in keeping him at distance?

If it was a willing choice as implied by this phrase, then what was the point of Kuro Neko? An episode that tells us the exact opposite? And treats it as the right answer? Where we are said she wasn’t aware of her actions and she wasn’t in the wrong in the first place?

It brings back to the main problem, she wasn’t shows being vulnerable or in difficulty because of her choices. Because it wasn’t even decided if she was willingly putting him at distance or if it was spontaneous. 

Either she willingly sidelined him, or she just treated him badly naturally and in both cases, she wasn’t shown caring about it until she made an horrible mistake. and even then, she didn’t apologise for it. 

Yes, this is very important, because apologizing is NOT the same of admitting mistakes. You could say “Oh yeah I made your birthday cake fall” or “Yes, I did that and I’m sorry”.  Admitting you did something and showing sadness over it, it’s still not the act of apologizing. One could say you’re just sorry for youself or don’t even care really about doing what you did, or regret it.

And from the finale of season 4 and the first two episodes “Evolution” and “Moltiplication” of season 5, she still didn’t. 

Here is why it’s all a problem.

She never apologized in New York for lashing out on him unfairly about not trusting him. She felt destroyed when he left, which at least is better than Kuro Neko’s situation, but she felt more sorry because she didn’t imagine herself as Ladybug without her Chat, not because she worried about him and how he felt after her lashing out. “He made his choice”. There wasn’t guilt, there was more so blame on him for leaving suddenly once again. He was the only one who apologized. As Kuro Neko once again…

(Note that New York being a cause of stress for her newer reaction to him giving up is to be taken with a grain of salt since so far even if it’s said to be canon, the show doesn’t give any single proof or evidence that the specials had influence on the series and happened).

Her actions, when it comes to her relationship with Chat Noir, never were taken accountable for real in the series. Aside from some sadness, guilt for exposing Master Fu at most, she never faced her mistakes when it regarded treating her partner unfairly or acting in a morally wrong way.

Yes, she did make apologies in various cases and tried to fix her mistakes after realising she was wrong, but they often don’t stick for the following episodes and in the first place, these things don’t apply when it comes to her relationship with Chat.

This is the same reason why Marinette never grows as a character for that regard, may it comes to Adrien and her crush on him or to Chat. All her attitudes and mistakes are more often than not excused or ignored, and treated as normal or not wrong, when there is plenty of alarming signals about how she acts. 

Of course, many characters in the show have this problem. Chat/Adrien does surely, Alya does, Master Fu does, most does… but Marinette is the protagonist and the only one that is so excused.

A character being flawed and making mistakes is absolutely normal, yes teens make weird decisions and they have to make mistakes over and over again like adults to really learn at times, but they must be brought up as such and have the character working on them, not having them passed as nothing much because of this idea of girl-power and feminism the show has. And should show some work done in development at the end of the second last season.

Chat may have acted by impulse giving up, or maybe even he should have talked with her directly, but how would it have worked with her acting like that on a regular basis?

He had many reasons to act like he did, even more justified than her for her own actions. 

Will the show really approach the situation by having her working hard to apologize and fix her attitude? Are we really sure they will when the show never has done it? Even with small moments and actions?

This is the real issue. 

It's a thing that has been going on way before season 4. It just went all over the top now because it’s a choice the writers picked plot-wise, but it’s not written properly and with genuinity. 

The problem is that this time too it was all minimized when the problems are far greater. With Chat taking part of blame in a situation he has almost none. Her actions don't show remorse in the trailers or previous episodes. She doesn’t realize things that are blatant. And it may be understandable if we had clear context and proof of her trauma. But she never showed to care in a healthy and deep way. The actions written for her to prove she cares about Chat can be easily considered superficial or forced to make minimal treatment, which would be only worse if she really did care a lot for him. She once used to care much more, in season 1, maybe even the second, even if she made mistakes there too. She once used to want to fix her mistakes, to improve herself. It’s been a long while since she threw that away in regards to Chat.Sure she may laugh at some jokes, play along, hug him, say she won’t abandon him, ask Alya to laugh at his puns, but how much does it count when there are other genuine and basic rules about respect and care she totally ignores? The basic things we have to show to everyone. A stranger, a friend, a partner…

How much does it count if she told Alya to play with Chat if in the same episode she didn’t even consider his feelings on her identity being compromised and her not telling him she had a substitute?

How much does it count if she acted stressed in Kuro Neko if it was barely about missing him?

How much does it count she chose Chat over Catwalker, imperfection over perfection, where there is no reason explained to why and it’s clear what she prefers?

How much does it count she told him once again he is irreplaceable when in the episode meant to show that it’s showed totally the opposite and never told why it’s otherwise? 

How much does it count she may realized she did something wrong if she shows no remorse for his sake and doesn’t apologize?

How much does it count that she told him she wouldn’t abandon him if she wasn’t even going to address the situation if Alya didn’t remind her? If she didn’t even seriously consider those fears or share them?

How much can we base everything on suppositions? Supposedly she is hurt inside, she loves him, she is traumatized, but when the show barely acts to prove them and explain why the character’s act in a certain way? 

How much can we suppose Ladybug cares right now so deeply when nothing supports it aside our own hopes and thoughts? Our own work of headcanons and fiction?

The important things are shown in how a person takes account of the other and Ladybug, even if Fu is heavily responsible, she is even more by herself. 

Sure, he shares a big part of blame. He was the one who we can, in a very debatable way, say “trained” her. He was surely part of why Marinette got so strict with rules and such. But she is an independent person and she is the one who acted badly with Chat. She still holds most of the blame for her actions.

She's 14, but age works as an excuse up to a point. Of course, Thomas was the first to say that precise age doesn't matter, and I certainly disagree with that. It is very important, if you want to use age as an excuse, specify. (And it’s always important if your show has a structure that requires a linear storytelling and doesn’t fit entirely the filler writing). However, in these cases her age is abused to explain exaggerated behavior which, however, should be gradually corrected.

A character, regardless of the age they have and the target the show aims to, must be written with consistency, care and the desire to improve. 

She needs to make mistakes.

But this does not mean that she can misbehave, not be held responsible and always get away with it, apart from a little sadness etc ...

She needs to pay, learn, be aware of her mistakes and be willing to apologize and work to fix them. Feeling inner conflict over time. Being seen as the one that is wrong at times despite being the protagonist and a supposed strong female representation.

Not to seem the one who doesn't matter what, will be in the right and fair light. Excusing her behavior constantly is what also supports the main problem of this show and why it was barely fixed.

Having a flawed character that acts by making mistakes and works to fix them is okay if it's written and built well. And with valid and shown explanations. 

Miscommunication must be well written and supported by rights and wrongs in the character’s actions. Coherent ones.

Marinette is not a monster, I am sure she is a character supposed to make mistakes but cares. The problem, is that right now, everything written shows the exact opposite and no matter how much she might work later, how much she might feel guilty and really realise what she did wrong, it’s still too late.  (And as of Kuro Neko, she didn’t do it).  She hasn’t proven to do so since season 3. She is thought to care, but not written to do so properly.

We lack the whole road to this development, the proof of a trauma, showing her suffering but still caring. Marinette facing choices and doubts over how to act towards Chat. Her speaking and thinking about what to tell him or not. Her doubting.  And mostly we lack her fixing her attitude.

Show her caring so much that she becomes cold and keep him at arm’s length because it’s the only way to protect him. Show her thinking genuinely about that, and suffering for it. Then, you can say she really has a trauma going on.

You have to show she cares with bigger acts, with consideration and care, even if in the end she makes the wrong choices. 

This is not a character who is suffering trauma. Sure, there are many ways a person can react, but writing wise Marinette doesn’t show the real signs. She is just being mean and stressed, but overall, trauma or not, you don’t treat someone like that more than once. And surely, show’s blame, you don’t act like it’s fine or no big deal.

In the 5 seasons arc, we are at the fourth with no improvement in the matter.

The only hint was Glaciator but everything that episode made and introduced was then discarded for the worst.

There, Ladybug and Chat Noir had miscommunication, made assumptions, and saw they were wrong. There Ladybug apologized and explained, there she seemed to be open to change her attitude or open at the chance to get to know him more so to treat him not superficially.

Why was it all used for the wrong reasons then?

Age is a matter until we remember she is a character with a story arc that is supposed to have growth, constantly even in her fallouts and mistakes. There are way younger characters but they have a growth and development. 

But ignoring, excusing her actions right now, making it seem like it's not something grave when there are millions of children following this series and taking example, is the worst thing of all.

Chat Noir has many writing problems himself, he is far from the perfect character and he too has had similar problems. He is resilient, he doesn’t react often to unfair things, he rearely loses his temper or show disappoint towards his situation, he let everyone decide for himself and lacked a “spine” for most part of the series. One can say that it’s the sentimonster thing, but it should apply only to his father. And if we go towards the topic of abuse, the effects in such a long series should have been reduced as he interacted more with his friends. We should have seen him more open to his feelings with his friends and at least see him trying more to rebel his father, only failing at the very end because of his amok. He should have improved a lot more and sooner.

But, as big as this problem is, he’s been far less the problem in the duos’ interactions, in every side of the square.

I agree that excessive hate is not the right way to go. For any character. Nor for Chat, not for Ladybug. But feeling anger and concern over the situation? Genuine ones? Criticizing her and the writing without blowing up? Seems fair enough to me.

We can’t really blame people for being angry over how she is acting and is written. Of course taking it to extremes is wrong. 

Liking the show with its flaws, liking Marinette, it’s okay, it’s fair. Tastes exist and we are different because we have them.

But the genuine concern is more than understandable. People have the right to feel pissed and annoyed at this point.

Because how she acts is there to see, and ignoring it, excusing it, may be the problem why the authors kept making Marinette the character she is and will ever be in the main series.

I am not even saying all of this to defend Chat Noir because I’m an hardcore fan (I try to be neutral, it just happens right now I think he is less in the wrong. Besides, Plagg is my fav, despite his sometimes wrong choice of speech. It used to be Alya but I didn’t like her much in season 3) and I’m not saying this to defend Ladynoir rights. I couldn’t care right now about shipping what we see in canon, right now I wouldn’t see any of the love square working, aside maybe Marichat, but if they pick this road, it will be wayyy too late. My favorite ship is Marichat, I think it has the most potential, but it’s late to use it now and surely with the context of the series, my likes lays more on the fanon Marichat (which is natural, there’s almost no content even for the canon one).

I said it already also, but I LOVE Angst. This choice of the drama in the ship, of Chat Noir feeling left out, of Ladybug unknowingly OR willingly (picking one clear) sidelining him? It’s VERY good. Excellent twist. People may lament it because many don’t deal good with angst, but I adore the idea, I adore the potential. 

But the problem is how it was executed. It’s not well developed, well structured. It will stay just potential used in the wrong way, like... most of the show’s best elements. People shouldn’t lament about the angst, but about the angst not being well portrayed. 

Season 4 is probably the best season as ideas, better in structure than the third, but the worst still with the third as writing. Yes, there is still left material to judge and I will carefully analyze it, but it won’t change what we already got and how it was portrayed.

She didn’t work to fix her mistake, a whole plot-line was just left like that and yes, as I said, there is still season 5 to see that, but Kuro Neko and the finale only added a good bunch of problems and right now, so far into the series and in their partnership, seeing Ladybug not even realising she is hurting him, seems a bit stretched.

And definitely, waiting for the fourth season to face this kind of plot is too late.