Rock Tribune via ratboycopia

 ON SELF-REFLECTION, OPTIMISM AND ANCIENT DINOSAURS 

With the release of the concert film 'Rite Here, Rite Now' late last year, Ghost, the most famous Swedish export since Abba, their three-year tour cycle for the successful 'Impera' album came to an end. The final moments of the film saw the then-frontman Papa Emeritus IV, affectionately called Cardi by the legion of fans, tragically bidding farewell to his mother Sister Imperator. He was consequently promoted to the head of the Clergy (the mysterious entity that directs all of Ghost's ins and outs), and thus he made way for a successor. A new frontman in the world of Ghost of course also means a new album, but nothing was said about that at tirst. However, when it was announced a few weeks ago that a certain Papa V Perpetua would make his appearance at the beginning of July during the ultimate swan song of Black Sabbath and Ozzy Osbourne, an announcement could not be long in coming. 

Text: Frederik Cosemans 

On March 5th, the time had come: not only did the general public hear that a new album called 'Skeletá' would be released on April 25th, they also got the single 'Satanized' and a first glimpse of Papa V. However, the international press, and therefore also Rock Tribune, got the chance to chat with mastermind, all-round musical genius and man behind the many frontman incarnations Tobias Forge a little earlier. 

In the days leading up to the interview, it seemed as if there was quite a game of panic soccer being played in the Ghost camp. After the sudden mention of Papa V Perpetua on the poster of the Black Sabbath show, something that seemed completely unintentional and suspiciously like a leak, all kinds of cryptic 'V is coming' announcements surfaced and The Clergy seemingly shifted up a few gears. Indeed, it looked like the press was hastily called together to minimize “damage” and get back on the ball. When we finally get to see Mr. Forge, back with a long mane and clad in an old school Repulsion shirt, on our screen, however, he looks quite relaxed and greets us in his own friendly, engaging, but also somewhat matter-of-fact manner. 

When we ask him if our reasoning from above is somewhat accurate, he is a bit taken aback and therefore immediately sets some things straight. 

“I do want to emphasize here that there is totally no leakage or anything like that. The organizers of the Black Sabbath show (including Tom Morello of Rage Against The Machine as musical director, FC) have of course their own agenda and schedule over which we have no say. The reason that only Papa V Perpetua and not Ghost is mentioned, is of a purely practical nature. As you may have seen, there is a large number of real 'bands' on the poster, but also a large number of individual musicians. The bands, with the possible exception of Metallica, are probably touring at that moment and that makes it much easier to schedule them for such an event. However, we ourselves start our American tour a few days after that show and that makes it practically impossible to participate. There are simply too many people involved and the production is too big to be built up in such a short time. Not participating in the tribute seemed like a bridge too far for us, and that is why only Papa V will perform. There is really nothing more to it. So I am here, as planned, to do promotion for our new album.” 

BLACK-OUT 

The new album will be called 'Skeleta' and for a nice analysis of the musical content of that gem we would like to refer you to the extensive review at the end of this article. Here we will delve a little deeper into the underlying themes and concepts and also try to get a better picture of how exactly the record came into being. The enclosed biography, literally the only information available at the time, speaks in that respect of a real 'media blackout' that Forge is said to have imposed on himself during the writing, but again our interviewee has to correct this. 

“That has been somewhat misinterpreted by the person who wrote the biography in question. Look, I did indeed almost completely shut myself off from all kinds of media for a while, but that only happened after November 6th of last year (despite the fact that Tobias does not mention any names at any time during the interview, we don't do that either, it is not difficult to find out who or what exactly he is referring to here, FC), when the record had already been written for a long time. After that particular date, I limited myself to checking a few mainstream media every day to keep a little bit informed about what was happening in the world, but for the rest I completely remained in the background and did not actively participate in discussions. After all, the internet is crawling with individuals who all claim to have the truth, but often completely miss the mark and therefore only sow panic. If you are exposed to that for too long, you start thinking extremely apocalyptic and the world changes into a very dark place. That detox was necessary for me personally, but in itself has nothing to do with making the new album. When I started 'Skeleta', so without a media blackout, I first looked back at its predecessor 'lmpera', an album on which I felt the need to speak out against all kinds of worldly mis-conditions and problems. That had to be different this time, because making a second 'lmpera' was simply not an option for me. I wanted to be more constructive and introspective this time and focus on things that I can do something about myself. You know, we could talk for hours about all the problems the world is currently facing, but that won't provide many solutions. All we can do is take comfort in the fact that the people who are responsible for a large part of all the misery today are old, have shitty karma and will probably have to lay their heads down sooner rather than later. It will come to an end, it simply cannot be otherwise, because history repeats itself time and time again. After the night always comes the day. The world has known dark periods before, but they have always passed and we have always emerged stronger. Statistically speaking, a large part of humanity will be able to recount the things that are happening now and regard them as history. But right now, at this very moment, I am personally powerless and I cannot possibly solve all the world's problems. After all, they are too big and too overwhelming. I am not a politician, but an entertainer. I try to create something that makes people feel good and make them have a positive attitude towards life. That's my job, that's why I'm here and that's what I focused on when writing this record. I have the enormous privilege that a fairly large audience is interested in what I do and I can't take that for granted. It's a kind of gift and it's kind of my duty to use it as best I can.” 

MOVING MOUNTAINS 

We would like to go a little more into detail into the latter. Through that gift and the platform and reach that Ghost offers him, Forge does indeed want to convey something to his audience. As he indicated earlier, this time he went about it more constructively and introspectively and therefore wanted to approach it in a much more personal way. Simple people like you and I may not be able to solve the world's problems, but we can take a good look at ourselves and ask ourselves what we can do. Change starts with yourself, people sometimes say. Is that also the meaning we should seek behind the title 'Skeleta', a clear reference to 'skeleton' or the inside of ourselves? 

“In fact, yes. Look, I accuse the world and society of many things, but I am also the first to admit that I am guilty of many of those same things. However, admitting that alone means that I am at least prepared to do some self-reflection and want to make an effort to improve myself and the world around me. Again, I am not talking about political changes or improvements, that is almost impossible for people like us, but personal ones. I wonder how I can positively stimulate the people around me and help them move forward. It is sometimes said that social media has given the common man a voice and has whispered to him that with the right attitude and motivation he can achieve the impossible and move mountains. In itself there is certainly some truth behind that, but the sad thing is that many people mistake that for a kind of power. They think that they can change the way the world turns, just because they want to and shout loud enough, but that is not how it works. Mind you, I have that tendency too, but as I said I have the enormous advantage that I can effectively reach many people. I am not going to claim that my fans will follow me to the ends of the earth, but they are open to what I have to say to a certain extent. And if I can make people more positive about life in that way, then that makes me happy and I feel like I can contribute something good to the world. Because ultimately we must not forget that the world is a wonderful place with many more beautiful and good things than bad ones. And those old dinosaurs that are now desperately fighting for their lives and have the incredible gift of arousing bad feelings, they will soon be gone. Just because their lives are coming to an end, does not mean ours will too. Besides, and now we are getting very cynical, you can always take comfort in the fact that those individuals, who are sitting on their piles of money helping to ruin the world, need us desperately. They earn their dollars on the backs of millions of people and they want to keep it that way. They do not benefit from letting the masses die or leave them helplessy to their fate. Cynical, as I said, but somehow hopeful. The overall message of 'Skeleta' is that we should enjoy our lives to the fullest and not dwell too long on what comes after. Yes, the record is quite dark at times, a bit like these times, but there is still a lot of optimism and hope shining through.” 

NOT ONLY FISH ON THE MENU 

A next logical question to Tobias is whether this attitude and mindset also effectively influenced the composition of the new music. After all, working out texts and concepts is one thing, actually writing music is another. 

“Well, during the writing process, music and texts are inextricably linked. It rarely happens that I write all I the texts first and then all the music or vice versa, because they should, at least in my eyes, complement each other. Sometimes I have to adjust the music so that a certain sentence comes out or feels better and sometimes certain parts of the text or vocal lines have to be reworked so that they blend better with the music. You have to sense what a song needs, so to speak.” 

And is there also a kind of predetermined goal? Does Forge know in advance whether he is going to make a heavy record or rather give space to ballads? Is it going to turn out proggy or rather old school and retro? 

“Basically I just start working out ideas. After a while, when I have finished a number of songs, I sort of take stock and see what else the record needs. After all I like variety and I don't find it interesting at all if, for example, there are ten 'Square Hammers' on the same album. I always compare it a bit to a dinner with several courses. If you were served fish from the first to the last course, you would be sick of it by the end, right? That's why I always want to balance an album a bit so that it remains interesting for everyone. What was noticeably different this time was that it quickly became clear that this album would not contain any instrumental tracks or intermezzos; it only contained songs with vocals. That in turn meant that certain songs would need longer instrumental parts so that some 'vocal breaks' could be inserted. I found that to be a very refreshing starting point, because I had never done something like that before. In the end, it comes down to the fact that a Ghost album has to be a kind of total package of different parts musically. If, for example, there were ten heavy songs on it that all followed the same structure, it wouldn't feel like Ghost to me.” 

To us, 'Skeleta' feels like Ghost for a full 100% and we don't care what all the haters and grouches say. And as the name of the new frontman already indicates ('Perpetua' means 'eternal'): Ghost is here to stay! 

***

Album Review 

Three years after the release of 'Impera', a record that catapulted the Swedish Ghost definitively into the pantheon of greats, the masked act led by mastermind Tobias Forge has finished the next chapter for the success story. The mysterious and occult rock/metal of the first records has long since had to give way to a more slick, theatrical and even poppy hard rock sound, which has obviously earned the band a lot of detractors, but thus a lot more supporters. Fans who frenetically resisted the old work and prayed for a return to the roots with each new record may now put away their hopes for good, because 'Skeletá' makes it clear to us once and for all that the band will never, ever look back, but will continue to expand and refine their sound. 

After all, opener 'Peacefield' speaks famous volumes in that regard. It is a grand, epic hard rock song with melodic harmony vocals, classy riffs, fine guitar solos, lots of synthesizers and a super catchy chorus. It is certainly not a bad song, it is even a very good one, but as an opener it is still 

no ‘Kaisarion’ or ‘Rats’ and we honestly admit that it took a few listens before the penny dropped. The following duo ‘Lachryma’ and the by now familiar first single Satanized need less time, but basically follow the same formula. Although both songs are a touch more solid, they seem to have been plucked straight out of the eighties and the refrains irrevocably fix themselves in your brain with barbs. 

On previous records it was about now time for an instrumental song or a short interlude, but there is no such thing on ‘Skeletá’ at all. Indeed, for the first time in their history, the band chooses to perform ten full-fledged songs and omit the fillers. Excellent move, if you ask us! In ‘Guiding Lights’ they may take a bit of a breather, it is ballad of the purest kind, but our heads are off if this is not going to be an ultimate sing-along moment during the upcoming tour. In the past, the lighters would have been brought out with certainty! 

With De Profundis Borealis, some spirit creeps back in. The pounding rhythm and the, again, clever and devilishly catchy chorus make this rocker a real highlight. The following ‘Cenotaph’, referring to Queen, does the same thing again and clearly shows that Forge (or should we say Papa V Perpetua?) pulls out all the stops vocally on this record. 'Missilia Amore' is pure eighties hard rock (think Ozzy Osborne's ‘No More Tears’). 'Marks Of The Evil One' (with the catchy proclamation There! There!‘) if possible even more so and 'Umbra’, introduced by sinister synths that at times remind a bit of Jean-Michel Jarre. takes the crown completely. The combination of a clattering cowbell, flashing riffs, proggy guitar and keyboard duels and perhaps the best chorus of the whole album make the song a real stunner that will pop live. It closes with the sweet and perhaps a little too sticky ‘Excelsis’, a power ballad with a real Gary Moore solo and the unmistakable message that one day everyone will have to trade the spiritual for the eternal. 

'Skeleta' has become the superlative of its predecessor ‘Impera’ in almost everything (production, arrangements, vocals, instrumentation) and will certainly be a huge hit in terms of composition. The old fans who have felt alienated from the band for a while will not be won back with this album, everything has become even bigger and more equal, but the general status has undoubtedly increased a lot. And that is. once again. completely justified! (FC) 

Libération via alvaghoul

Tobias Forge, Ghost singer and gentle apostle

The singer of the Swedish metal band speaks as an optimistic and warm oracle, while counterfeiting the Catholic liturgy and having fun with Satanism.

Tobias Forge in Paris, February 18, 2025. (Samuel Kirszenbaum/Libération)

by Virginie Ballet and photo Samuel Kirszenbaum

Without becoming mystical, we almost saw a sign. Mid-February: Pope Francis has just been hospitalized when we are about to confess a self-proclaimed pope of another kind... He too is familiar with conclaves, and claims that this ceremony presides over the sacrament of his diabolical stage alter egos (Papa Emeritus, Cardinal Copia...), all inspired by the Catholic clergy, in a marketing rite carefully orchestrated for each album release. White smoke: this time, to accompany the sixth opus of his band, Ghost, the Swedish metal pope, Tobias Forge, renamed himself Papa V Perpetua. Far from the flamboyant mitres, contact lenses and spectacular makeup that he is accustomed to, he is a forty-something with the look of a soft rocker – long hair, laced boots, and a red devil tattoo on his arm – that we meet during his visit to Paris, well before the Pope died.

A disconcerting normality for someone who has long hidden his face and true identity, until legal proceedings brought by former musicians regarding the distribution of the band's income forced him to drop the mask in 2017. Talkative and warm (he left us with a hug), Tobias Forge now seems ready to lay himself bare, in keeping with this album, which he considers "more introspective and personal" than the previous ones, focused on love, hate, death. All this to tunes closer to hard rock than heavy metal, which probably explains his success with the general public (more than 8 million monthly listeners on Spotify, three million subscribers on YouTube, sold-out world tours). Cursed be the unbelievers and guardians of the temple of pure sugar metal, who never fail to mock a "soup" deemed too commercial, accompanied by abundant merchandising, even eyeshadow palettes: with the faith of recent converts, they are told that criticism is easy. The acrostic too, as proof.

Sweden. Born in Linköping, a city of 160,000 inhabitants 200 km south of Stockholm, where he lives today, Tobias Forge and his brother Sebastian, thirteen years his senior, grew up in a poor neighborhood, raised by a mother who curated exhibitions for the municipality. His father, on the other hand, rebuilt his life and started another family, a wound that undoubtedly contributed to young Tobias's desire to turn to the "dark side." As an "immature and difficult to manage" child and then adolescent , Tobias Forge was introduced to rock at a very early age by his brother, a vinyl collector who fed him Kiss and Mötley Crüe from the age of three. The bottom line: at eight, the kid took up the guitar, practicing his skills on The Doors, Pink Floyd, and other Rolling Stones, and dreamed of "becoming Keith Richards ," no less.

Arts. Interested in spirituality but not religious, his mother, an art lover, took him at a very young age to visit the Catholic church in his hometown, "one of the largest and oldest in the country, Protestant for 500 years," to introduce him to architecture. "It's always been an inspiring place for me, as captivating as it is frightening." The building, with its walls adorned with graffiti of children while away the boredom during catechism centuries before, had "all the hallmarks of horror movie castles," imbued with a kind of "energy" that gave him the feeling he could hear the walls whispering. It must be said that in this family, fond of reading and the seventh art, Tobias Forge got a taste for genre films at a very young age, shivering with delight at The Shining, The Silence of the Lambs, Rosemary's Baby , and The Exorcist. It is here, in these demonic references as well as in the world of British composer Andrew Lloyd Webber , that Tobias Forge will draw inspiration to knit the pseudo-Satanist theatrical concept of Ghost. The other founding act, he explains, lies in the awareness of a form of hypocrisy within Christianity. This is revealed to him by one of his teachers, a woman "claiming to be a defender of good, of light, but who in real life was dark, bad, wicked, devoid of empathy."

Telephony. A rather average student, "angry and arrogant," Tobias Forge "hates school" and therefore doesn't spend time there. He takes a day job as a telephone operator, and at the same time tries to break into music, via a succession of bands with moderate success, to say the least. Secretly, he hopes to be spotted by a record company, which, won over by his talent, would write him a check for a million dollars, send him into the studio, then on tour, financing the rock star destiny he has always dreamed of. Spoiler: things didn't turn out that way, far from it. Until he was 25, Tobias Forge fumbled around, before finding the recipe that would finally make him take off. Except that in the meantime, he, who had been single for a long time, with "all the time possible to indulge in his dream," met Boel, a trained pharmacy technician, who would become his wife. Together, they had twins, now 16 years old. It was she who convinced him to "break free from the shackles" of his job to devote himself solely to music. At the dawn of the 2010s, Ghost began to make a nest on Myspace. At the same time, Sebastian, the older brother, died of heart disease. Consecration came the following year for Tobias Forge, when Metallica co-founder James Hetfield endorsed the fledgling band by appearing in a T-shirt with his image at a festival in Sweden, praising "a breath of fresh air for metal."

America. Obviously, the decorum surrounding Ghost is hard to accept among some Catholics, who have sparked protests denouncing an "attack on their faith." Tobias Forge, for his part, defends the right to satire and says he is open to dialogue with those who, increasingly numerous in the West, are "moving away from the Enlightenment" because they have lost their meaning, turning to religion or populist movements, between which this history and politics enthusiast draws a parallel. Donald Trump's re-election worries and despairs this fervent equal rights activist, but he wants to believe that karma will reverse itself, that "idiots" and "dictators" will not last forever, neither in the United States nor in Russia.Christmas. Although he owns a second home in the countryside of the archipelago, this "urbanite at heart" quickly gets bored far from the hustle and bustle of the city: "The noise of a busy street and people calms me and stimulates my inspiration." A wine enthusiast and former martial artist, Tobias Forge, although claustrophobic, is planning to try scuba diving. He says his children have had a "major impact" on his ability to concentrate. To our great surprise, the father confesses to celebrating Christmas, but not "for the birth of Christ." His twins were born on December 24th, which is pretty damn good.

exclaim!★@#

A Ghost album starts as a solitary endeavour for bandleader and frontman Tobias Forge. Though his band has become known for its elaborate concepts, following an occultist clergy and Forge himself cycling through multiple figurehead characters, he says the accompanying fictional story isn't on his mind when he writes music.

"When making records, don't really pay too much attention to the lore," he explains. "The lore is external; the lore is the church with its congregation, and when I'm writing music, that's the scriptures that are being sent out to the congregation, if you will."

Forge's band, founded in Linköping, Sweden, have garnered worldwide recognition since being unleashed on the global heavy metal scene with their 2010 debut album. With album number six, Skeletá (due out April 25 through Loma Vista Recordings), Ghost are now bona fide arena headliners, thanks to Forge's creative architecture and theatrical songwriting, the hallmarks of their sound simply being Forge's instinctual style.

"Usually, when I put my hand on a song or I create something, it has a little bit of a DNA, and I guess I have a way to write that might be signature for me," he tells Exclaim! "I always want to write songs that I don't have; I always want to make a record that I've never heard before, albeit influenced by something. But it's actually getting harder and harder."

Writing a new song feels like being a detective solving a homicide, as Forge, nothing if not true to the spirit of his band, puts it. Each case has a new victim, different leads, and perhaps an unexpected culprit.

"You never really learn," Forge says. "I know how to have written that [previous] track, but I don't know how to write this new track. I just have a lot of tricks up my sleeve, but I don't know if that's what we need to make this song fucking awesome."

Forge doesn't want to spill too many details on where the Skeletá cycle will take the accompanying storyline, but he offers a hint as to what awaits fans. The band recently introduced Forge's newest protagonist, Papa V Perpetua, fraternal twin brother of predecessor Papa Emeritus IV, formerly Cardinal Copia, who has been promoted to clergy leadership.

"Let's put it this way: this album is about healing, and healing in combination with hope to become a more solid human to function in a more solid society where we're a little bit more nice to each other and to ourselves," says Forge. "Right now, Cardi is very out of place. And it would be nice if it ended with him feeling better about his position."

Ultimately, though, Forge sees an eventual end to the Ghost lore, looking to a future where music and theatrics take centre stage, admitting he can find it limiting in a way to have to fit his lyrical content into the plot.

"With the risk of sounding like I'm complaining, which I'm not, at points I've found myself envious of bands like Foo Fighters or Pearl Jam, who can just exist," he says. "They can just show up and everyone wants them to do what they're really good at, but the nature of my band has been creatively intuitive, but practically not as intuitive, because it's meant that you always have to create lore that most other bands don't have to. That's obviously a creation of my own — that's my fault, so I'm not complaining."

Fifteen years into his career with Ghost, Forge says the world-building can get laughable at times, but also believes the fantasy components are more exciting now than they were five years ago: "As a storyteller who has ambitions to evolve as a storyteller into different media, it's enthusing," he says. "I like that part."

Skeletá is the sound of Forge's most fully realized vision yet, with infectiously catchy songcraft, equal parts soaring synth leads and diabolical riffing and plenty of Forge's upside-down prophesying. Forge feels that Ghost are past freshman status, considering himself a sophomore or junior of the metal scene now. After carrying the torch for heavy music and reaching levels of success few newer metal bands have achieved in the past decade, Forge sees more life in heavy metal now than he did when Ghost started taking off.

"I've been heartbroken many times over the last 10 or 15 years over bands that quit, died, stopped functioning or disappeared," he says. "I don't want that, but it's just the way of the world."

To keep the live concert circuit alive, Forge says promoters and venues need to have a bank of big-name acts to choose from, enough that festival lineups can feature different headliners year by year. "Metallica can't headline everywhere all the time," he says. "It doesn't work. Ten to 15 years ago, you had a lot more headliners who were good for 40,000 people. In the festival world, you need bands that have a pull."

To Forge, metal may be the only musical style to exist that consistently attracts new generations who embrace the genre's entire history,  while still existing outside of the mainstream. "There's this embrace of styles because it seems to be reaching the same people still," he explains. "It's the same outsider in school, the same intellectual comic reader, the same horror buff who starts liking bands. And your gateway in might be through Slipknot, or it might be through Sleep Token now — or Ghost. But it all leads back to all these other bands, so there's this great heritage movement that keeps on spawning new bands."

Ghost's Skeletá tour cycle will see the band embarking on an ambitious global arena trek, aptly dubbed the Skeletour. Having gone through extensive band rehearsals and worked with two collaborators to conceive a larger-than-life stage show, Forge says he is able to give more of his energy to his own performance without the added pressure of being the sole director of a show this size.

"In the band we have a very strong tie to Canada because our bass player is from Toronto, so every time we're in Toronto specifically, that's a semi-homecoming," he says. "There are really no superlatives that don't sound tacky to say how great I think the country is."

Forge has a long list of favourite Canadian bands and artists, from Leonard Cohen and Neil Young to Rush and Danko Jones to Voivod, Slaughter, Sacrifice and Blasphemy. "There's a lot of Canadian music in my life that has been ever-present," he says. "But I'm also a hockey fan, so if I ever have a day off, we try to go see hockey. Because of our Toronto connection, the Maple Leafs would be the go-to team."

Leaving us with a promise to Canadian fans that Ghost will be coming through on the Skeletour — and that it will be during hockey season — the newest era of Ghost is just beginning.

"I wish for it to end with me wanting more," Forge says. "That would be a great achievement."

SVT Newspaper

Writing a new album is like a giant murder investigation, says singer Tobias Forge. Watch him explain why in the video above. 

Ghost: "Every album is like a new giant murder investigation"

New introspective album, new pope and world tour.

But then the future is unclear for the band Ghost.

– I want to be able to enjoy more, says frontman Tobias Forge.

Every new album is a reaction to the previous one, Tobias Forge has previously said. So this time too – even though the predecessor “Impera” is musically related to the new “Skeletá”, the lyrics are now significantly more introspective and based on basic emotions such as love, hate and sadness.

– Instead of talking about specific things that happen, we talk about the reaction, explains Tobias Forge to SVT Kulturnyheterna.

The theme not only served as a setting, but also as a motivation to actually write the music, says the frontman.

Unclear future

A new album means a new world tour for Ghost and a new stage show with a new stage persona, or so-called pope. This one has been named Papa V Perpetua, but Tobias Forge doesn't want to reveal what kind of character it is.

– You don't know until you've done fifty gigs, he says.

What happens after the tour is also unclear. Previously, Tobias Forge has always had a long-term plan for Ghost, and knew roughly what the next step was. But after “Skeletá”, the future is uncertain.

Could this be the end for Ghost?

– You never know, says Tobias Forge, but emphasizes that he has no such plans, but rather wants to live more here and now and enjoy the success of the band.

Welt via alvaghoul

“Churches scare me”

In his youth, Tobias Forge was fascinated by the occult; today he considers himself a humanist. A conversation with the singer of the Swedish heavy metal band Ghost about good and evil.

Ghost is one of the most successful heavy metal bands of our time. The occult show of the always masked musicians led by Swedish singer Tobias Forge has already won a Grammy Award. Forge slips into the role of a Pope Emeritus on stage. Their last album, "Impera," also reached number one in Germany in 2022. Among Ghost's greatest successes are songs like "Mary On A Cross," in which Forge sings about a lost love he would crucify like the Virgin Mary before letting her run away. Their next album, "Skeleta," will be released on April 25th, followed by a world tour that will make four stops in Germany starting April 23rd. The new single is called "Satanized," and deals with demonic possession, blasphemy, and heresy.

Anyone who talks to Tobias Forge needs strong nerves and a lot of patience. He appears for our interview in a Berlin hotel without his garish mask, a slight, unassuming man with long hair—an introverted, liberal-minded individual. However, he often talks about evil as if it were self-evident and omnipresent. He would like the world to be different from its current state—and that includes not only some dangerous political leaders, but also religions playing a dubious role for him.

WELT: You once said, "I only live for certain moments. In between, I have to let my thoughts run free." Are you with me right now?

Tobias Forge: Oh yes, I am. I generally struggle with living in the here and now. I'm really trying to get better at it. I want to create moments where I can pause and embrace the present. But that's very difficult for me. I've always been somewhat out of touch with reality. From a purely professional perspective, I've managed to use that as a strength, because it's my job to create things. From a psychological perspective, it's certainly not great to always want to escape. When your head is telling you to move forward, but you find yourself moving backward. I'm somewhere, but not present. But that doesn't mean I can't also enjoy the moment. At the moment, I'm enjoying sitting here talking with you.

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WELT: You talk about your escapes from everyday life. In Ghost , you hide behind costumes and masks. What are you escaping from?

Forge: For many years, I ran away from the answer to that question. As an adult, I'm trying to grapple with it to find out exactly that. As a kid, I thought that if I succeeded in becoming a rock star, I could transform into a different person. Ironically, that's exactly what happened. But as a kid, I thought it would happen automatically. Because someone with my background from the streets of Linköping where I grew up could never be interesting enough to become everything I felt inspired to become. Who was I, anyway? Over time, though, I realized that was nonsense.

WELT: So you escaped from yourself and ended up with Ghost?

Forge: I thought to myself: If I can't become a rock star, I at least need a hobby where I can be creative, some kind of outlet. Something with which I could pursue what I liked: rock music, theater, the devil. All those things. And then, after all those years of initially not getting anywhere with my music, it suddenly happened. A door opened. And I thought: "Oh shit, I'm on the right path. This is the train I always wanted to take."

WELT: You mentioned the devil rather casually. Do you believe in him?

Forge: For me, Satan is primarily a fictional character who exists largely in a pop-cultural sense, which is very different from the biblical understanding of the devil. He, she, it thrives primarily in rock 'n' roll and movies and serves as a symbol of excessive emphasis on the intellect, liberation, and rebellion. The devil is anti-authoritarian, funny, clever, and stands for sexual freedom and, in general, the freedom to control one's own body.

WELT: How did you discover your interest in Satan?

Forge: I come from a music scene in Sweden where Satanism and the devil had a lot of appeal. I always loved hard rock, death metal, and black metal . Satan is a common symbol there. As a teenager, when your brain is still a kind of mush, so for me in the early 90s, black metal was more than just a style of music, it was a youth movement completely dominated by us teenagers. People talked about the evil in the world. Since then, all the musicians from back then, especially those dark Norwegian bands, have become some of the nicest people on the planet. Lovely grandfathers with long beards. Absolute humanists.

WELT: What does it mean to you to be a humanist?

Forge: A humanist sees the world as a good and beautiful place. But to do that, they first have to fight through all this darkness, like we used to.

WELT: What do you mean by that?

Forge: It's something like a therapeutic endurance test. Even if it's purely mental, a kind of exercise. Some will discover afterward that they're capable of doing even more evil than what's already happening in the world. They have no idea what we played with as teenagers back then.

WELT: What did you do?

Forge: Let's just leave it at that. You see, as a child I grew up in a very liberal home. We were all very gentle and lenient with one another. Outside of my home, however, I was exposed to people who were very religious. They proudly called themselves Christians, but were actually very evil. To me, they represented restrictions and rules. They were petty and mean and did little for the common good. That's how I learned my life lessons, and one of them was: Satan, as a pop-cultural figure and as the Antichrist, was a symbol of progress and openness, not an apostle of regression and backward thinking. There were so many religious conflicts in the world, and in Sweden in particular, we dealt with them strangely. If you were religious, you were supposed to live like a farmer.

WELT: How do you see it today?

Forge: Let's ignore Satan as a symbol of hard rock music and horror movies. If we talk about the devil in more old-fashioned terms like good and evil, things could hardly be more confusing than they are right now. For me, all of Satan's biblical characteristics—that is, the seducer, the traitor, and the evil in politics—are present. These are people who bear all the hallmarks of the Antichrist, but want to represent the good side to us. Or so they claim. They represent ecclesiastical values, and we simply don't want to recognize their true, devilish attributes.

WELT: So you don’t appreciate church values?

Forge: You know, I've always been a humanist. And almost all of my thoughts and feelings about what I think people should be like are in stark contrast to how the church describes a God-fearing Christian to me.

WELT: So you believe that we would be better off without the church, without religions, per se?

Forge: I'm not against every kind of religion. I just have something against those that demand that their followers submit and repent. They do so by making sacrifices, in whatever form. These can also be financial sacrifices. That should open people's eyes.

WELT: But everyone can decide that for themselves.

Forge: Exactly. But devoutly religious people use the church to criticize others for the lives they lead. That's what happened to me: People criticized the street I lived on, criticized my parents for the way they raised me. This is something that those who consider themselves to be entitled to be kind to others allow themselves to do. I believe that if you don't want to be treated badly, you shouldn't treat others badly either.

WELT: Faith can move mountains, as the saying goes. It gives you strength, not power.

Forge: I'm convinced that the day we're able to leave religion behind, we won't give up the idea that there's something out there we don't know. I'm really open to it. There are things I can't explain. And I think that's a good thing. We don't know what happens after death—I think that's a good thing, too. I'm not saying like an atheist: There is no God, there's nothing out there. I have no idea if there's anyone or anything out there. But I don't like the fact that there are people who tell us they know that. They're lying!

WELT: Do you love the unknown because it also scares you a little?

Forge: Probably. I'm very afraid of the dark, but I don't know why. Strange, isn't it? And yet it's true. At least I've learned that everything you're afraid of feels better when you unite with it. And that's what I try to do. I've always been fascinated by the dark, as well as horror movies.

WELT: In Ghost, you play the role of Pope Emeritus, a pope who has been relieved of all duties. Joseph Ratzinger served as Pope Emeritus from 2013 to 2022. Did you like the German Pope Benedict XVI ?

Forge: Yes, absolutely. And I really had to chuckle when he became emeritus. For me, the name was actually just a joke. When it actually happened to him, it suddenly wasn't funny anymore. I think popes have a gigantic task ahead of them, at least they used to. These days, they're taking a step back and staying out of all the global business. I've noticed that religious leaders are behaving more like influencers these days.

WELT: Did you learn anything from the original Papa Emeritus?

Forge: No. My role as Pope Emeritus in the concert was never intended as an insult to a living pope. The role has symbolic value for me, just as effective as the devil or the devil cult.

WELT: Do you go to churches?

Forge: Yes, it always gives me a strong visual thrill. Especially when it's an old Catholic church. They're so imposing and full of frightening images. For me, weaving into that iconic world is very therapeutic, because it doesn't necessarily symbolize a positive force for me. A church may seem beautiful to many, but I also know many bad things that look very beautiful. Churches scare me!

WELT: Your new album “Skeletá” is a dialogue with yourself?

Forge: Yes, I think it's something like an internal dialogue. And at the same time, reflective of my own weaknesses and mistakes. But it's also reflective of the world I live in. Even though the last song is mostly about death, about the end, the real message is: If you hear this, logically you're alive. So the overall message is hope. I want to make the most of my time on this planet. The best way to live your life is to make the world the best place possible. How? By trying to do more good than bad.

WELT: Are you a do-gooder?

Forge: You can't do everything right, and you can't expect life and everything you do in life to be 100 percent good. However, that doesn't mean you can't change. That you can get better and move things forward. So if you try to laugh more than you cry, everything will move forward. And if you try to make more people happy than sad or angry, then you're certainly already on the right track. That's the only thing I can do in my life. I can't change elections, but I can try to give people hope.

WELT: So is that the real message of the album, that the dark times are coming to an end?

Forge: I don't mean the literal end of something that will never return, but rather the mysterious nature of certain eras. Most people feel the world is currently moving in the wrong direction. I, on the other hand, believe that everything moves in circles, in cycles. What's happening now just has different names than before. In the liberal Western world, we want people to be happy. We want peace, so the current situation frightens us. It's night right now—but it will soon become day again.

To person

He hails from the small industrial town of Linköping, about 200 kilometers from Sweden's capital, Stockholm. Tobias Forge developed an early fascination with the occult and viewed the devil as a fatherly friend. Forge initially played in the death metal band Repugnant before founding Ghost in 2010. For a long time, he tried to remain anonymous. He was inspired by the make-up-wearing US rockers KISS. However, he came out in 2017. He constantly changes his outfits on stage. The 44-year-old is married and has 17-year-old twins with his wife, Boel. At Forge's request, the concerts are cellphone-free. He says: "An audience that actually watches the concert is a happier audience.

Rock Hard Germany via alvaghoul

THE PRINCIPLE OF HOPE

The numbers speak for themselves: Over five million YouTube views and almost ten million Spotify streams for 'Satanized, the first single from the new album "Skeletá" - and all of that in less than four weeks. There's no question that GHOST can still consider themselves the band of the hour, and interest in the multinational group around Swedish frontman and founder Tobias Forge will remain unbroken in 2025. We traveled to Berlin to talk to Tobias personally about the past, present and future.

The press day takes place during the Berlinale in the famous Soho House near Alexanderplatz. The streets are busy, the hotels are fully booked, the weather is bitterly cold. Only a handful of journalists are invited to a personal audience, and the 44-year-old welcomes them one by one in a large and stylish conference room on the second floor of the magnificent building. From a visual perspective, Tobias has changed since our last conversation, which took place in 2022 on the occasion of the release of “Impera”. He now wears his hair much longer, but it is no longer dyed. He also grew a beard. Overall, he's a bit reminiscent of the young James Hetfield. But of course all of that is just a minor matter, after all today it's supposed to be all about music. “It’s nice that we’re meeting in person this time,” he opens the conversation. "I don't know if you feel the same way, but I perceive people very differently on video calls than face to face."

You could almost be said to have prophetic qualities, Tobias: The lyrics on the 2018 album “Prequelle” revolved around the topic of plagues, and the subsequent tour had to be canceled due to the Covid-19 pandemic. "Impera", published to coincide with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, was about the collapse of empires. Things haven't changed for the better since then. What world-shattering events can we expect in the next few years after the publication of "Skeletá"?

He grins wryly: If it were up to me, the lyrics of the opener "Peacefield" would shape world events in the near future. It would be great if the record turned out to be "prophetic" once again, because "Skeletá" is all about hope and resilience. As long as we are able to listen to music, we are still alive. A circumstance we should rejoice in."

A topic that you took up last year with "The Future Is A Foreign Land on the soundtrack of your concert film Rite Here Rite Now". The music and lyrics stood in stark contrast to the gloomy images that scrolled across the screen during the credits.

»I generally find it easier to express myself in contrasts than to be direct - which may be due to my rather dark, sometimes cynical sense of humor. Many things that happen in the world seem almost absurd. Overall, the situation in the world does not present a good picture at the moment. However, I firmly believe that everything will change for the better in the end, no matter how much certain politicians may resist it. The main protagonists who are currently determining the fate of the world are two old men whose time will come sooner or later. In a sense, we are witnessing their last breaths; a death rattle that affects entire world events. When I say that the future is a blank slate... that the future is a foreign country..." - jp), what I mean is that we can take our fate into our own hands and change things for the better. This is something that younger people in particular should never forget. The time of the despots will run out at some point, and in all probability we will experience this moment - just like the end of the war, because nothing is forever. In my opinion, it is important to keep reminding ourselves of this fact of utmost importance.

To be a little more specific: Look out the window (he points towards the Berlin skyline) and look at your own country. How many people might have thought 80 years ago that the Second World War and the collapse of the previous order would herald the end of the world? This certainly also applies to those who had to sign the surrender here in April 1945. These people saw their world in shambles because they had lost everything they believed in. And yet it took less than a decade for humanity to recover on a large scale. What's more: the world even experienced a new upswing in many areas.<

As long as there isn't a new Middle Ages like the one after the collapse of the Roman Empire...

»I'm pretty sure that won't happen. The elites cling to their wealth with all their might. This in turn depends on the majority of humanity being reasonably well off in order to remain solvent. As soon as the powerful have money, they will find a way to restore peace - if necessary through a violent replacement of heads of state. Nobody is invulnerable, history has shown that time and time again. As bleak as the world looks at the moment, there is still a lot of hope in the future.<<

Has your attitude towards this changed? "Rite Here Rite Now" was characterized by positive, life-affirming moments. These ran through both your announcements and the story part of the film. In the past, I didn't necessarily always have this impression.

»You're constantly evolving, but at their core, GHOST has always had a life-affirming message. From a content perspective, I see Rite Here Rite Now" as an appeal to enjoy life to the fullest as long as you can. Existence is certainly not always a walk in the park, and our characters in the film also become aware of that. After the events of Rite Here Rite Now", Frater Imperator (formerly Papa Emeritus IV, the current incarnation of the GHOST frontman-jp until the announcement of "Skeletȧ") is unhappy about his degradation. The thing is, though: he wasn't actually demoted, he was promoted. Although he had to step down from his position at the edge of the stage, he is now the head of the church. Likewise, there are those who regret having traded the beauty of youth for the wisdom of age - a paradox. Coming to terms with change and perhaps even embracing it always requires strength. One of life's greatest challenges is to overcome these imponderables while remaining positive. Of course there are always bad phases in every person's life, but the goal should be to let the good ones outweigh the bad ones.<<

Does your new alter ego Papa V Perpetua agree with his predecessor in this regard?

»The two are completely different people, although they are also closely related in the band's mythology. To be completely honest, I can't really grasp the "new one" myself; that's why it's difficult for me to characterize him at this point in time. I give my alter egos space to develop and breathe naturally, I don't plan them completely in advance. The conclusion that Frater Imperator finds in the events of "Rite Here Rite Now" was also due to such a development.<

So the plot of the film wasn't planned long in advance?

»Not in detail. "Rite Here Rite Now" came about at a comparatively late point in our career. Many bands release a DVD after every tour, which is out of the question for GHOST. In return, we were able to make the thing much bigger and also fully connect it with the mythology that has grown around the band over time. From the outside, my behavior in one thing may seem quite paradoxical: on the one hand, I'm a control freak who wants to keep the reins of the band firmly in my hands... on the other hand, I have I have no problem sitting back and waiting once something has started. This also applies to concert tours, for example: I never watch recordings of our shows while we're on the road, because I'm naturally very critical and don't want to overanalyze the performances. If I started to weigh in on my every move, I'd have a problem anyway. The only GHOST shows I ever watched in full were the two we recorded for Rite Here Rite Now. I looked through all the material together with an editor to make a selection for the film.

Was it important to you not to just release a “normal” live recording, but to offer fans a more opulent experience?

"I had the idea years ago to combine the concert experience with story elements. I approached various people who were basically open-minded but didn't fully understand the idea. I was asked again and again whether I would imagine the result to be like the Metallica film, but I had something completely different in mind. As the plans became more concrete during the last album cycle, the question of financing inevitably came up. We presented the project to several large production companies, all of which We were told that the market for live films was dead. Looking back, I have to smile about this fact, because we were probably just a little too early. A short time later, Taylor Swift released her concert film "The Eras Tour", which was a bombshell and made a lot of money. Now, of course, GHOST aren't as big as Taylor Swift, and production companies primarily look at the band's streaming numbers when it comes to such ventures. Despite all the rejections, I refused to lose faith in the project. I found it almost funny that in return I was offered to make a film that focused mainly on the story aspect and was only spiced up with a few live shots. However, that was absolutely not the project I had in mind, so I politely but firmly declined. I couldn't understand why a live DVD with a small, strange story portion could be too much to ask for. At the end of the day I decided to finance the production myself because otherwise I would have either not had a film at all - or just one that would have been made with major compromises. Since I was sure that the only way to take GHOST to the next level was with the film, I had no other option. I didn't want to end the "Impera" cycle in the same way as all the other album and tour cycles before it - also with regard to the approach of "Skeletá"."

It sounds as if the creation of a new GHOST album is more complicated than it appears from the outside. Do you really make the success or failure of a new record dependent on the progression of the background story?

>In a way, yes. If we hadn't made the film, we would have had to tell the story elements in short video episodes, as we have done in the past. That just didn't feel right. Mythology is now an integral part of the GHOST cosmos. The fans want to know what happens next, and we have fun continuing to spin the story. A DVD has also been requested by our fans for a long time; So why not combine the two? I'm glad that we went through with the project as originally planned and didn't make any compromises. And the fact that the film didn't flop in the end also makes me happy (laughs).<

Did you allow yourself at least a short break after the tour and filming, or did everything just happen in quick succession afterwards?

»The original plan was for me to work on the production of “Skeletȧ” immediately after returning home. However, I quickly realized that this simply wasn't possible because I was completely exhausted from the previous years. So I forced myself to take a break, but once again it wasn't particularly long. When I start concretely planning a new album, I usually already have song ideas in hand, sometimes even finished pieces. The first step I usually take is to push all the ideas into one shared folder. That happened for “Skeletȧ” in December 2023. I told myself that I would take a longer break once the album was finished. How well this plan worked became apparent when we had to have the already finished record mixed again (laughs). I'm afraid that I'm just not allowed to take longer breaks. It remains to be hoped that this will change in the future...

How did “Skeletá” have to be mixed twice?

>Quite simple: I was totally dissatisfied with the first mix. We recorded the album in Stockholm and I was personally present throughout the entire recording process. I then handed over the material and went on vacation with my family. Of course I got constant updates via email, but I really hate having to judge a mix on the go. You sit in some hotel room and listen to things on headphones instead of on your home system or studio equipment. This is really anything but ideal. I raised these objections, but due to the original deadline we had set for the album, there was no other option. I had a hard time evaluating the mix according to the circumstances

Things sounded “okay”. When I received a test pressing after my return and heard the record on vinyl for the first time, it hit me. My worst fears had come true. There was no other way: We threw the deadline overboard and mixed the entire material again.<<

Does that mean that the record would actually have been on the market much earlier?

>>If we could have met the deadline last August, yes.<<

The new mix can easily be described in one word: powerful. While the songwriting is more rooted in AOR than ever, the guitars sound pretty damn heavy.

He laughs: And I'm glad that's the case. You're right, basically "Skeletá" is a true AOR album. Some time ago, Tom Scholz from Boston launched a signature guitar box, the Rockman. Even though the guitar sound you get with it is basically really thin, it sounds totally eighties. The thing is also really, really loud. The decision to record "Skeletá" with the Rockman was made early on because I was really into it. ren, almost nasal sound. In addition, I recorded all the guitar tracks in full distortion using Marshall speakers. In the first mix, the Marshall tracks were so far in the background that they were barely noticeable. This made the material sound really thin. You have to underfeed the Rockman so that it sounds really good. We did this in the second mixing pass. Basically we just made the Marshall tracks a little louder and didn't change much else. It's fascinating what a difference such a relatively small step can make. If I had heard the stuff directly in the studio, we could have saved ourselves the second run-through.

Are you completely satisfied with the end result? 

»Yes, absolutely. Last summer I was pretty exhausted and burnt out. That was the reason why I went on vacation at all during this critical phase. After the first mix, I reached a point where I no longer liked the record itself. That's a really unpleasant feeling and unfortunately happens to me on a regular basis during our productions. I end up totally saturated with our own material. The fact that we took a short break before the second mix had a positive effect on my state of mind. I was able to re-evaluate the production with some distance, and suddenly I liked the songs again.

You often hear, especially among critics, that a good song remains a good song, even if it was produced poorly.

»That's basically how I see it. Nevertheless, of course you want to get the best out of your own work. There are good reasons why so many people like the records that were made in the Sunlight or Morrisound studios at the time. The things just sound incredibly powerful, round and cool. I own countless albums that, objectively speaking, were recorded, mixed and mastered poorly. Despite these circumstances, I love them for who they are and what the musicians have created with the resources at their disposal. Would it hurt my love if they had recorded with a higher budget and more time in a decent studio? Certainly not. The records would probably be much better. You always hear, especially in the underground, that there is a creative master plan behind these bad productions. I think that's nonsense. People simply worked with what was available. Sarcófago decided to produce “I.N.R.I.” in 1987. certainly not consciously decided between a good studio and a less good studio for the worse one.

“Skeletá” was then completely remixed

For the lyrics of “Skeletá” you took a more personal approach than on the last two albums.

"Prequelle" and "Impera" were strongly influenced by my observations of society, politics and general world events. In contrast, “Skeletá” is more of an introspection.

 Of course, my emotional world is not unique: the things that go on in me also affect many other people. While "Prequelle" can be described as political to a certain extent and "Impera" as thoroughly political, it was important to me this time to make an album that is apolitical in the broadest sense. You could certainly read a political statement into some of the tracks, for example "Peacefield", but even there it is essentially about conveying feelings.<

Musicians have been hearing more often recently that they want to distance themselves from political statements. 20 years ago this would have been unthinkable in rock and metal.

"I believe that the times when rock music had to be political are long gone. That's probably the way things are. Rock'n'roll, metal and punk emerged as youth movements at the time, and many of the young people involved wanted to change something. This music has now been listened to for four generations. I think it is illusory that such a large number of different people can even begin to agree on a common denominator in political terms. You certainly also have to remember that you inevitably have a part of the youthful idealism The punks from back then are now 50 or 60 years old, and of course they now see the world differently. In addition, there are no longer just black and white, but countless shades of gray, all of which are in conflict with one another. Only when it comes to questions of faith. When someone asks me what I believe in, I usually answer, "In the greater good." I value personal freedom and basically just want everyone to be nice to each other and happy. How is this supposed to succeed? I'm stumped. However, I am in the fortunate position of having a voice that is heard and I also use it to spread a positive, life-affirming message.

Did you find it difficult to write a more personal, introspective album instead of another one with a concept?

»The answer to this question is complicated. It's generally not difficult for me to write down my feelings. I decide on a case-by-case basis how much I then screen them out and what I ultimately allow to become public. The next step is to knit song lyrics from the loosely written thoughts. This brings with it its own challenges, because the texts not only have to make sense in terms of content, but also sound good. Writing lyrics is a game of words, and some just don't sound good in the context of a song, no matter how hard you try. As before. As already mentioned, I am also very self-critical. This also sometimes becomes an obstacle.<<

During the early days of GHOST, all members made every effort to keep their identities secret. The fact that they finally came to light is mainly due to the legal dispute that you and your former colleagues fought with each other. Would a personal album like “Skeletá” have been possible before?