My disaster bunny has a name now, meet Krisha! (They got hit by a car cause some hotshot celebrity was drunk driving so they got a big fat cheque to keep quiet!)
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Shiva Baby writer-director Emma Seligman tells Ella Kemp about expanding her wildly cringey short film into an even more anxiety-inducing feature, why Virgo and Taurus make the perfect producing pair, and the eternal conflict of being a good Jewish girl.
âIf I can skip a bris to see E.T., I like movies!â âEmma Seligman
It sounds like a strange riff on a guy-walks-into-a-bar joke: a girl walks into a shiva and bumps into her secret ex-girlfriend, then her sugar daddy, then his shiksa wife, oh, and their babyâyet the payoff is so much more rewarding.
Filmmaker Emma Seligmanâs debut feature is a new kind of teen classic: 78 non-stop minutes teeming with well-drawn traits and tropes that define the best coming-of-agers, the best Jewish comedies and the best day-in-a-life psychological roller-coasters.
Shiva Baby began as a grad projectâa short film of the same nameâand Seligmanâs feature-length embellishment impressed at last yearâs virtual editions of SXSW and TIFF, where it was quickly snapped up for international distribution. In a way, Shiva Baby was perfectly tailored to the times we were living in: Danielle, our reluctant heroine, is trapped in a claustrophobic family event she canât escape, as people from her past and lies about her future make their way deep under her skin.
Fred Melamed, Rachel Sennott and Polly Draper in âShiva Babyâ.
Shiva Baby is very much the product of a wry school of emerging filmmakers who understand excruciatingly mundane horror and pin-sharp comedy as intimate bedfellows. Seligmanâs writing finds a way to flesh out gloriously caricatural Jewish relatives, probing and overbearing and irrational. She does this both through dialogue and a visceral, haptic aesthetic that lurches in and out of focus visually, and has a nails-on-chalkboard unease sonically.
Coming in hot with a 4.01 average rating, Shiva Baby is striking all sorts of discordant notes with film lovers. âCombines some of my biggest anxieties: being asked if I have a boyfriend as well as what my plans for the future are and people talking with their mouths full,â writes Muriel.
The filmâs âbisexual chaosâ, which hinges on a haywire performance from Rachel Sennott as Danielle, opposite Molly Gordonâs overachieving ex-girlfriend, Maya, is also one of its great strengths. Glee star Dianna Agron is the shiksa threat, Kim, while Danny Deferrari is Danielleâs hapless benefactor, Max. If thatâs not enough? Polly Draper, Fred Melamed and Jackie Hoffman are also just there.
What do you think defines a Jewish sense of humor?
Emma Seligman: Itâs morbid usually, and darkerâgenerally uncomfortable and cringeworthy. I think about Curb Your Enthusiasm or Seinfeld, and A Serious Man. It borders on, âIs this funny at all?â I think Jewish humor leans into the darkly funny British sense of humor. Iâm Canadian, so I feel like Iâm halfway between the UK and the US in terms of their sense of humor.
Was it always your intention to make a comedy that feels like a bit of a nightmare? Youâve mentioned Black Swan and Opening Night as touchstonesâŠ
Because I came from a short film, the question when expanding into a feature was, âHow are we going to keep everyone interested in this day?â Itâs got to be a significant day, itâs got to be that this young womanâs life has completely changed from this day. So what is it that changes? Why are we watching it? I watched a lot of movies that took place in one day, one of them was Trey Edward Shultsâ first film Krisha. And then from there I realized that anxiety and this scary psychological feeling is a great way to have the audience stay there.
I watched Opening Night because thereâs a shiva in it, but it was more the lobby scenes that were so claustrophobic and tense. And then each step of the way with each department, we were like, okay, itâs gonna be tense, but then we got to music, I was like, okay, this has become a full nightmare. Initially, I was just like, itâs got to be tense, but by the end, I was like, well, it does feel like a nightmare to a young woman sometimes.
Because you mention that, I have to ask whether youâve seen Bo Burnhamâs Eighth Grade?
I have, itâs incredible. Itâs so funny, theyâre both coming-of-age [films], and one of them is about a fourteen year old and then the same sort of feeling exists when youâre 22. When youâre fourteen is when it begins, and when youâre 22 youâre sort of at the end of it and youâre like, âOh, I thought I figured out what I was supposed to do when I started feeling insecure this way at fourteen about sex and boys.â
Diana Agron and Danny Deferrari in âShiva Babyâ.
Letâs talk about Rachel Sennott, who you have describe as your âVirgo rockâ. What do you bring one another in your creative partnership?
Sheâs a hustler, and she sets goals like nobody else. I think she moves very fast, and Iâm more detail-oriented. I donât know if the movie would have happened without her because she was like, âWhat are the goals to achieve this film?â After we made the short film, she just kept checking in with me. She goes well beyond what an actor does, which is why sheâs an executive producer, because she was very, very invested in seeing the movie get made.
I think she pushes. We joke that she brings me out of my depression and I help calm her down. I feel like Taurus is a little more chill. Virgos are also earth signs, but they run on a faster frequency. So I think I calm her down, especially when weâre writing and bringing it back to structure. But sheâs way funnier, sheâs able to give jokes so quickly. We balance each other perfectly, for sure.
Do you think your partnership with Rachel is the kind of partnership you could see yourself maintaining throughout your career?
Definitely. I think itâs important to have a good friend and also a young woman. Sheâs got different career goals from me, but theyâre aligned. And weâre not in competition with each other. I feel so grateful because so much of the time I feel like the world does make you feel like youâre in competition with your friends that are trying to do the same thing as you when youâre a young womanâor just maybe in general.
Rachel Sennott and Danny Deferrari in âShiva Babyâ.
Her character in Shiva Baby completely subverts the idea of a ânice Jewish boy/girlâ which can be a trope in movies, but also very much a real thing in life. Is that something you consciously wanted to subvert, or did it come organically from the story you wanted to tell?
I wanted to contrast that idea of a ânice Jewish girlâ because every nice Jewish girl or boy has a sex life. I felt the sort of nice Jewish girl stressors on me were completely opposite from the NYU art school sugaring worlds, and hookup culture broadly. My family is such a huge part of my life and I think that those two sets of pressures are completely contradictory; to be a good girl or boy and have a stable career ahead of you, and to be finding, even if itâs at the very beginning, your eventual partner, or to just be in a relationship. And I felt like in school, no one wanted to date, everyone was hooking up. So many of my friends are sugar babies. I tried it super, super briefly.
I felt like the world was telling me to be like âan empowered, independent, sexy woman who doesnât care what anyone thinks of her, and doesnât abide by any rulesâ, and I was like, âThis is the opposite of being a nice Jewish girl!â And I just felt like those two things were screaming at me. So I did want to play on that. But I donât even think itâs playing, just because that felt like what I was trying to battle within myself. And I think a lot of young people do, whether theyâre Jewish or not. Thatâs their familyâs expectations. And then the world is like, âBut donât care and donât commitâŠâ
Writer-director Emma Seligman. / Photo by Emma McIntyre
But then you still have to go home to your parents at the end of the day and theyâre going to tell you what to doâŠ
Exactly.
What would you want viewers to take away from Shiva Baby about the sugaring community that you feel has been maligned in the past?
Iâm not a sex worker, so I donât want to speak on behalf of this community, but I definitely feel like there hasnât been many positive portrayals of sex workers. So I just wanted to show someoneâbecause I knew so many friends of mine who did itâwho enjoyed it, or purposefully did it and didnât feel bad or shameful about it. I think maybe a lot of people think that itâs always something that comes out of dire circumstances. But whether that is the case or not, I think thereâs a lot of people who enjoy it and enjoy what they do like any other job. So I just hope that theyâre able to sort of widen their scope of what a sex worker looks like and acts like. Every sex worker has got a family, friends, a full robust life, as we all do.
Itâs time for your Life in Film questionnaire. Can you give me a few must-watch Jewish films for people who donât know where to start?
Fiddler on the Roof, Yentl, Keeping the Faith, Kissing Jessica Stein, A Serious Man. Definitely Uncut Gems, and Crossing Delancey.
Shiva Baby has been described on Letterboxd, variously, as âUncut Gems but make it chaotic bisexualâ, âthe most stressful Jewish movie since Uncut Gemsâ, âthe chaotic successor of Uncut Gemsâ, âif Krisha and Uncut Gems had a babyâ, and, of course, âUncut Gems for hot Jewish slutsââŠ
Amazing, I love that. Extremely nice comparison.
Who is your favorite promising young woman? Not Emerald Fennellâs film, but a young creative or performer who you think is making waves.
I love Hari NefâI think sheâs amazing and am really excited to see what she does next. I loved her so much in Transparent and Assassination Nation, and I donât understand why she hasnât been the lead in a million movies.
Molly Gordon with Rachel Sennott in âShiva Babyâ.
What should people watch next after Shiva Baby?
Those Jewish movies would be a great start. And then Krisha, although I think a lot of people have seen it especially if theyâre on Letterboxd! But then those Jewish romantic comedies, and then Obvious Child, all those movies are very sweet and endearing and helped me make it.
Separate from film, if itâs shiva-related then Transparent. If I didnât have Transparent I donât think I would have seen world of grounded, nuanced Jews that I could do comedy with. It would have been more in the Curb vein, which is also amazing, but a little more schtick.
What was the first film that made you want to be a filmmaker?
My parents are huge movie buffs so Iâm not sure there was one moment, but I will say that when I was six there was a re-release of the 20-year anniversary of E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial and I was at a horribly packed bris and my uncle was like, âFuck this, there are so many people here, I canât even breathe. Letâs go see E.T.â That was the first moment where I was like, if I can skip a bris to see E.T., I like movies.
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Shiva Baby is now in select theaters and on VOD in the US. Film stills by Maria Rusche.
Hi! May I request krishna and radha fluff? (Maybe a kiss?) I read the one with rukmini and it's so beautifully written that I couldn't resist asking.
I'm sorry this is short, but its all I could manage rn
ËËËËË
When they danced, it felt like the world stopped.
Her Kanha.
His Radha.
Each movement perfectly fluid and in sync, like the universe conspired to link their souls.
Her arm in his, held like the most precious thing in the world, and a kiss on the gentle fingertips before she twisted away, a mischievous smile as she danced, moving away from him.
She knew he would follow, and who was he to deny it?
The chan-chan of her ghungroo was the most enticing song in the world, and as they danced in the middle of an abandoned clearing, he was only following their sound.
Their chase was a mock, their souls clearly rushing to be close.
And when it all stopped, in perfect form, her Kanha, his Radha, if they stole a kiss, the forest wouldn't tell.
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âPropelled by color, energy, electronic music and a quartet of career-making performances, Waves is that rare sort of cinematic achievement that innovates at every turn, while teaching audiences how to make intuitive sense of the way it pushes the medium. Instead of serving up conventionally scripted scenes, Shults strings together a sequence of powerful vignettes, plunging in and out of his charactersâ lives to expose the details that make the family on screen so real and relatable.
Actions have impact, rippling out beyond our control, and while stories help us make sense of the chaos, it takes a radical disruption to break through the divisiveness thatâs taken hold of our country. Waves rejects the reductive notion of good and evil so often presented on film, while exploring forgiveness and acceptance in their many forms. This is not inspirational filmmaking in the faith-based sense, and yet, the movie speaks to the kind of crises that drive desperate people to â and also away from â religious belief, acknowledging that to some degree, weâre all just trying to stay afloat, and that our parents and siblings, imperfect though they may be, are sometimes the only support we have.â