#introverted feeling

Inferior Fi: Under stress, it’s a pity party of one and how I am persecuted, misunderstood, nobody cares about me or thinks I have feelings.

Inferior Fe: Under stress, it’s frustration and anger at others having unreasonable expectations and demands from me, wanting me to show more than I feel, emotional spilling out (feelings that show outwardly) followed by embarrassment at their lack of control and “irrational” behavior.

Easy way to remember – introverted feelings point inward and are subjective (all about me) and extraverted functions point outward and are objective (all about what the situation demands or what others want). So, ITPs can have emotional meltdowns with their feelings spilling everywhere, and ETJs typically withdraw and become moody. ITPs can also blame everyone else for the problem, since Fe has an outward perspective (it’s your fault, you demanded too much of me, you’re too emotional, etc), while an ETJ may blame themselves for not handling this situation more competently (Te standard).

An old example but a good one – when I was discussing Aragorn one time with a friend in debating his type, we ruled out ISTP because he never has an inferior Fe breakdown. Even when Merry and Pippin are missing, Aragorn just screams with anguish and sinks to his knees (… cuz Viggo broke his toe kicking the helmet, haha) rather than processing his feelings externally with his friends or expressing his guilt and shame in more than Te statements (“we will not leave them to torture and death”). His feelings are all very internal throughout the series (Arwen, you cannot give up your immortality for me, I am not worth it; refraining from talking about her much with his companions or with Eowyn; deciding to face Sauron on his own terms; going after Merry and Pippin, etc). Contrast that with TP Gimli, whose feelings are all out in the open all the time; you know when he’s having a good time, when he’s pissed off, what he feels about elves, etc.

If someone is internal, private, does not show their feelings easily – Fi. If they wear their emotions more prominently on their sleeve, talk about what they feel, express those feelings on the spot – Fe.

Plus, I feel like high FI users can be fake or people pleasers too. Yet people seem to think that if you aren't arguing with everyone who violates your values, then you can't be a high FI user. I also get confused about what NE is too because people always boil it down to "possibilities" and being open-minded as if anybody couldn't do that. Plus, people say NE expands while NI narrows, but NE can be used to form decisions too.

What exactly is the difference between NE and Ni? Can you give an example if possible? Also, what does an Enneagram 6 vs Enneagram 4 look like? I saw your post on how some people may project their attachment styles onto the Enneagram, which made me even more confused because I care about authenticity and hate feeling forced to conform, but I also care about what other people think. Also, people say a major component of SI is that they are in touch with bodily sensations, but what does that even mean?

Sorry for the essay i am just so lost on what I am😭

Hello! I was wondering if you could help me differentiate FE vs FI. Like, I know that FE is about collective values, but if FI is subjective to that and there are high FI users who care about harmony and their values are about others, then what would the difference be? Every time I ask other people that, they reiterate, "Fi is about personal values" instead of actually addressing what I said.

It means… “I am responsible for my own self, nobody else. I am accountable to me.” That is Fi. “I can change my thinking, but not yours.” More Fi. It is a center of focus being in me, myself, and I, rather than in others-sourcing. It is the WAY you think about feelings and approach them. It’s the need to ask, “how would I feel in this situation?” when dealing with other people and their feelings, rather than simply feeling what they are feeling. You have to put yourself in their shoes, and imagine how you would feel, but you don’t ASSUME they feel that way, because they aren’t you, you are you, and you and they are separate, and no one has the exact same experience, because everyone is emotionally different. More Fi. “I hate that painting, it’s hideous.” Fi.

Fe is the opposite. It focuses on what we have in common, in shared experiences and values, in mirroring other people’s emotions back to them to better be in harmony or understand them; it uses “we” terminology and sees itself as an extension of others. It’s not just about me, it’s about “us,” and “what is best for our society/family.” It’s inclusion and outer-in-referencing; I dislike that painting, but they love it, so it must hold value for them, and it would be diplomatic to respect that or try to understand what they love about it. It’s making decisions based on what is best for everyone in your life, and allowing that to shape your thinking.

I have talked a LOT about this, so I suggest you read through the 100 or so posts on the topic here on the blog, as well as consult my IFP / EFJ profiles on FunkyMbti.com. But to bottom line it, the Fi stops drinking because “that’s not who I want to be” and the Fe stops drinking because “it puts my family at risk.” It’s how you interpret things through self or impact on others. That’s the difference.

Plus, I feel like high FI users can be fake or people pleasers too. Yet people seem to think that if you aren't arguing with everyone who violates your values, then you can't be a high FI user.

Sometimes, but it feels discomforting to them, because Fi is all about inner truth and being in alignment with it. So where a Fe might think “being disingenuous is fine here, it’s just to make them happy for now,” the Fi goes “but it’s not how I truly feel about this, and I have to be honest about that!” They can still do it, but it bugs them. Most of the time, Fi/Te understands that you can’t argue anyone into sharing your point of view, so doing so is a total waste of your time and energy, and they won’t bother; they will just go quiet around people they disagree with and do their own thing.

I also get confused about what NE is too because people always boil it down to "possibilities" and being open-minded as if anybody couldn't do that.

Do you really think anyone CAN do that? If that were true, don’t you think the world would be a more open-minded place? How many people do YOU know who actually listen to all ideas without judging them, shooting them down, resisting them, or saying that’s absurd? How many people do you know who play with ideas without being too attached to them and whose minds are always shifting around to a new point of view? Ne is relatively rare in a dominant position, compared to a lot of other types. It’s the ability to shift and ebb with the flow of information without hanging onto anything too tightly, because Ne wants to explore things for their own sake. The higher the Ne, the easier this is to do. For me, Ne means “I wrote this chapter yesterday and it felt right, but I woke up this morning and can see how tearing it apart and taking it in a new direction could make it even better or more interesting, so I’m going to do it.” It means, “I thought this was really interesting yesterday, but am going to take it in a new or even the opposite direction today cuz it’s fun to do it.”

Again, I suggest you read my ENP sections on the website. I go into what intuition is, and what Ne does, which is expansion and theorizing and changing topics rapidly in ways other types struggle to follow. It’s talking about ancient rome and then how much you love Mexican food and the X-files is a great show and do you want to see the new star wars show and today I gotta buy socks at the store and did you know the world’s tallest man was almost 9 feet tall? … all in one conversation or train of thought, because your mind jumps around a lot.

Plus, people say NE expands while NI narrows, but NE can be used to form decisions too.

Ne does not form decisions, no. That is a judging function attitude – so Te/Fe/Ti/Fi decides what to do with what Ne finds. 😊 The higher the Ne, the harder it is for those judging functions to ‘direct’ it. ENPs -> reluctant to commit to a judgment prematurely; INP -> Fi/Ti is making judgments before Ne is activated. SJ -> everything gets weighed against how practical this is or if it contradicts what has worked for a long time.

What exactly is the difference between NE and Ni? Can you give an example if possible?

Ne is: I change my mind about things all the time, re-interpret them, and can pivot when what I want isn’t what is possible, because there’s always another way to approach this project.

Ni is: I visualize clearly an anticipated outcome in my mind and try to orient the outer world toward it, so that it becomes the way I clearly see it. I struggle to accept anything else other than this exact outcome or to change my trajectory if it doesn’t work.

Also, what does an Enneagram 6 vs Enneagram 4 look like?

Enneagram 6: I don’t feel I am superior to anyone else, that would be arrogant and I want to be liked, so that I feel safe around other people and they won’t turn against me or stop me from doing what I want to be doing. When I want to connect, I self-deprecate and use humor and show them I’m likable and trustworthy.

Enneagram 4: I am different from other people, with better tastes and interests, because mine are deeper. Most of them can’t understand me and never will; each rejection just proves this to me more that I do not fit in with normal folks, so most of the time, I don’t bother to try to connect without needing to put my own spin on it and draw attention to how I am different from them.

Also, people say a major component of SI is that they are in touch with bodily sensations, but what does that even mean?

It means, “Petting this cat feels nice. I like doing it. Petting this cat reminds me of all the cats I have loved and what they contributed to my life; it also reminds me of being at my grandmother’s house, and how she had a large white fluffy cat. It’s nice to remember moments like that. I have a lot of good memories in that house.”

Yes and no. It's complicated.

It's easier to look at it as Fe shapes its ethical stances based on the wider impact on other people, and Fi only considers how it feels about it first.

A Fi decides, "I won't drink, that's not who I am," and a Fe decides, "I won't drink, it would set a bad example for my little sister."

One's subjective judgment comes from within; the other's thought process includes those around it.

If we are all taught morals, healthy Fe adopts those that seem to make sense and be considerate of others, and Fi adopts those that resonate from within. Then each treats others accordingly.

If a Fe disagrees with its society or family, it tries to change society or its family to reflect a common value it feels is important. It shapes its world because it desires an emotional consensus and to be in harmony with others. ("How can you not care about global warming? This is affecting us all and will impact people and animals for generations!")

A Fi type who disagrees with society or family is more likely to see trying to change people set in their ways as useless after several attempts (Te) so they will seek a different society who either accept what they think without trying to change their mind or who share it. ("I have found my people!" :D)

The extraverted functions figure out what they are doing while using those functions; so Se adjusts their body and technique while doing it; Ne adjusts its thinking while theorizing; Te adjusts its logic based on what is working; Fe understands its feelings while expressing them.

EFJs usually address their emotions on the spot / in real time when they happen and articulate them to others; talking about them, and hearing what others have to say in response, helps them process them on the spot. IFJs are a little less inclined to do this the instant things happen, but can still articulate and express their feelings to others within a decent amount of time; it "feels good" to "get that off my chest." It is liberating and clears up their thinking.

TPs don't usually need to talk through their feelings in the same way; it may not dawn on them that this is a need that will help them feel better if they can do it, or it will be severely delayed, or it may even come out in a forceful manner at the wrong time because they haven't been dealing with their emotions along the way and they burst outward.

Fi is an inner function, meaning all feelings get taken inside the person to be processed on their own; internally is where Fi mulls over -- what am I truly feeling? what does it reveal about myself? does it match the kind of person I see myself as? should I "do" something with these feelings? if so, what? and if they did not act on them earlier, they will notice the incogruity between feeling and action, and vow to act next time. It doesn't help them figure out what they feel to talk about it; they usually don't even want to talk about it "on the spot" because it feels like they are being intruded upon by others and "expected" to emote before they are ready. Eventually, they may or may not talk about how something made them feel.

When wounded, I retreat and don't tell anyone, usually.

I mull over it and brood and deal with what is going on inside, and most of the time people only know something is wrong because I am uncharacteristically withdrawn and non-communicative. When my grandmother died, my parents told me right in the middle of live-watching the Emmy's with my friends; I did not mention it or interrupt the flow of conversation. When a friend died and I found out, I cried at breakfast but only texted my parents later to tell them what was wrong. I don't like to cry around other people and derive very little comfort from "oh, I am sorry" or attempts to make me feel better. When my friends turned on me, I stopped posting or talking to anyone and did not tell my side of the story until someone asked me what happened.

I don't speak for other Fi-users, but it's a similar pattern to a Fi-dom friend of mine, who when her grandmother died, she just told me that she had died. I respected her space, and said I was sorry, and said if she wanted to talk about it, I would be here for her, and if she needed me to cheer her up instead, I could do that. I made no suppositions about what she might need from me and asked instead, since that is what Fi wants -- space, solitude, and then an open door IF they want to say, "You know, I really loved her and now she's gone. And it feels like half my heart has been ripped out and put through a wood chipper."

My ISTJ mother is similar. Her feelings on some things ride very near to the surface, but others can cause her to pull away. She is so stoic a lot of the time, and rational, that seeing her cry is almost shocking. I'm the crybaby; she has a lot more self-control. The only time I've ever seen her break down was when a rift in the family caused her SIL to ban her from her brother's funeral. She burst into tears and wailed, "Now I don't even get to say goodbye!" That hurt her DEEPLY, but that was the only thing she has ever said about it.

It’s your 6 core, IMO, and being a double competency type. 6s are head types, detaching from their feelings on some level, despite being more emotional than they think, and who desperately want to “understand” everything. 1/3 brings a strong emphasis on competency and further detaching to analyze in a “detached and accurate” manner. 613s superficially look like thinkers even if they process everything through humanitarian terms.

My ENFJ 6w7 father could pass for a TP type based on his 6-ness alone (“It would be irrational to…” “Bad things happen, you just have to deal with it and not be emotional about it”), but his behavior is all structured Je (EFJ) and an inability to pivot (no high Ne in tracking and considering multiple perspectives at once, overwhelm when things come too fast at Ni and he has no time to process them or see where they might lead). He can seem almost callous at times in his levels of detachment, but his primary interactions with life are all based in feelings and Fe stuff (do people like me, I am not feeling appreciated right now, what do others need, how can I appeal to them, let’s all be on the same emotional page -> doesn’t like it when Fi’s are not on board, what is right is what is best for everyone).

So, if you’re unsure, look at whether you like to structure and control your life and have set plans (FeNi) or if you just live day to day and feel like today is all that matters and are skilled with physical reality and opportunism (SeTi). Don’t base it off of “how logical am I” because 6-3 is going to want to see themselves (and will be) very rational, because rationality is how you survive in an uncertain world.

That being said…

In my experience, it’s Fe + 9 that most 9 descriptions are talking about, in terms of merging into and losing oneself in other people’s feelings (this can be real, as in the 9/Fe takes on the emotional perspective of whomever they are with, or “false” as the 9/Fe becomes super agreeable in order to avoid disconnect and conflict, without actually believing the same way others do and not intending to take their advice). I’ve seen FJ 9s agree with one person one minute, and then agree with a second person the next, even though the two perspectives were polar opposites, they were just so keen to avoid any kind of tension or conflict. I think when a lot of authors say that a 9 will listen and agree with their spouse’s perspective, and then go talk to the child who is in trouble, and come downstairs going “I can see their point of view too,” they are specifically talking about Fe and 9 (“I merged into their feelings, and felt for them, and their reasoning made sense”).

Fi and 9 seem to take a different approach of silence; if they disagree but don’t want a fight, they wage an internal war between what do I want more, peace and to maintain this relationship or to assert my views on the subject? Silence descends while they try to decide, or silence means “I don’t want to talk about it / I am going to ignore this and not respond to it, and hope that the other person takes the hint that this conversation is over.”

The biggest thing I’ve noticed is that Fe 9s will give you the silent treatment, whereas Fi 9s will door-slam you. To a Fe, not communicating is an effective punishment, because it contains a signal to the other person that you are now unworthy of me. But they still ultimately want to talk, to get things out in the air, and to clear it up between themselves and others. Fi’s withdraw because “I need time away from you,” not to signal anything to you; they are upset, and need to deal with their feelings in private, and figure out how to address the situation (if at all).

If a Fe-9 gets upset with you, they may address it on the spot (EFJ) or with a delay (IFJ), because they do want to be in harmony with you. An FP/TJ 9 will just stop the conversation or leave without a word, because of the boundary violation causing them to think “I need to pull away and calm down right now.”

This happens when you break down functions instead of looking for an overall personality type. You won't mistake an INTJ for an ISFP if you're looking for an ISFP vs. an INTJ, but you might if you're going "where does Fi fall in the stack?" The way I break down characters and talk about each function is useful for defending an argument, but not for figuring out a character in the first place.

Look at the big picture of the character or the person and what their life tells you. Do they treat life in a FP way or a TJ way? Is their life structured and organized like a J prefers or fluid and experimental like a P? Are emotions a conscious driver in their life, so that feelings and humanitarian concerns consciously impact all of their decisions? Do they frequently make subjectively "irrational" (from a thinker pov) decisions that align with their inner beliefs (F) or are they more likely to do what is rational even though it's not necessarily what they want (T)? Is their arc learning to be more in touch with their feelings (T) or learning to organize themselves better to follow through on things (F)?

Jung thought so, in fact he uses a painting in his original work to illustrate the point, of Fe’s seeing that others place value in it, so it holds meaning. But you need to be careful not to misinterpret him. He says because others hold meaning for the painting, the Fe user sees that it holds objective meaning. “If it means something to so many people, it’s worth paying attention to” is not the same as Fe going “I actually hate that painting tho.” It’s the mindset behind the openness to others’ experiences. Mass appeal denotes objective worth on some level; whereas a Fi user doesn’t consider the objective worth first, or even at all; it's just whether I like it or not.

So, to illustrate better… a Fi and a Fe walk into the same art studio. The Fe thinks “eh, not my style,” but notices that everyone around them seems entranced by it, and so they know it is considered good even if it’s not to their taste, because it has managed to capture the attention or interest of many different people from many different backgrounds and walks of life. The art becomes “not for me, but worthwhile.”

The Fi user walks in and thinks “ick, not for me.” And often, the thought stops there. Or they look around and go “huh, people like it I guess. Weird.”

Fe and Fi can both have a strong sense of self; the difference is that Fi’s sense of self is in isolation, separate from other people, and Fe thinks of self in connection to other people. It’s a mindset of “I am me” (Fi) and “I am me, but my life touches others, so I consider them too” (Fe).

Neither is better or more moral than the other; they are just coming at their personal ethics from two separate frameworks.

Or you could look at it like this. Why do a Fi user and a Fe user stop drinking?