Julien Baker: âThe Church made me feel powerless. Even if I was Mother Theresa, I would still be gayâ
Singer-songwriter Julien Baker talks to Sarah Carson about God, queerness, sobriety, and why the confessions on her exquisite third album Little Oblivions make her cringe | iNews, February 18, 2021Â
She used to think writing music was her humanitarian obligation â to repurpose pain for a good reason.
... A few years ago, she started to wonder if the metric she had been using to determine right and wrong didnât exist. âImagine playing a game for two decades of âget into Heaven or go to Hellâ and then finding out that that game is made up. You just feel like, âI just wasted two decades of my lifeâ.â
... She spent her early 20s on tour, and at the end of 2018, after three straight years on the road, and even more of being labelled as the gay, Christian, sober face of indie-folk and bearing under the pressure prove to others in those communities that those identities didnât need to contradict each other, she stopped. She cancelled her tour dates and in the âslowness and the stillnessâ, she started to wonder: âwhy do I adhere to these beliefs?â
âIt would be reductive to call it a crisis of faith,â she says, from her home in Nashville, âor re-evaluating my sobriety. Because, man, I just re-evaluated who I was â all of it.â Â
She paused her career, went back to college, and finished her degree. She tried drinking again, realising that her only interactions with drugs and alcohol were when she was very young, in traumatic circumstances, and that sheâd chosen sobriety out of âprincipleâ. Things quickly got out of hand, drinking cost her, and she decided that sobriety was the better choice after all.Â
As for her faith, she no longer wanted to be a spokesperson on a subgroup. âSo many problems that I have in my psyche come from an American evangelical internalised understanding of the world. I now feel a little weird about having so zealously supported [Christianity] â as far as the institution of religion goes. I mean God? Sure,â she pauses. âBut, yeah. I was very young and vulnerable and super green.â
... Does she still believe?
Thereâs a long pause. âI think I would define God differently. If I thought it were useful or possible to define God at all.â She chooses her words carefully. She says belief is a slippery notion. âI donât think of things as so literal anymore. Maybe [I used to] because I felt, âIâm a person who believes and is queer so itâs up to me to be super well-versed in the language of scripture and theological argumentâ. Now itâs like, man⌠Donât believe in Hell.â
She repeats. âDonât believe in Hell. I canât â I donât think thatâs real. I donât even know if our understanding of the afterlife is accurate.â She laughs, and then shouts. âI mean, OF COURSE ITâS NOT! Thatâs freeing to me now, instead of terrifying.â
... Growing up in the church, Baker says she internalised â and perpetuated â a lot of homophobia, âfeeling so much self-punishment and ostracisation and self-loathing.â ... âItâs hard to unlearn those things,â she says.Â
... âBecause if I accept that I am queer and thatâs an innate part of how I was created, but the church and popular culture and all the people that I see screaming at Planned Parenthood and advocating for the Defense of Marriage Act are giving me the information that something I cannot change is not right, well, why would God do that? It made me feel powerless, like I had no agency to be good. Even if I was f*cking Mother Theresa I would still be gay.â
It wasnât until she went to college that she stopped thinking about âwhether I was going to hell for being gay, or not. Now, more than just saying âI can be lovedâ, and that Iâm square with my identity as a queer person, Iâm square with my fallibility, and a lot more merciful with myself.â Â
Is she able to love herself? âIt makes me feel insane, but I have to do a thought experiment multiple times a day. âIf Iâm a human being and human beings are deserving of safety and compassion and respect and dignity then I am worthy of all those thingsâ.â