#hotd discourse

Right... 😒😒

The matter of Robb's marriage is a perfect example of how the patriarchy's nuances show. Robb isn't a bad man, but he is still a man. His word came before that of his more politically savvy mother who obviously would know better than him what would be the best for him and the North politically.

Cersei is a bad person by all metrics, but she is still a woman. She was still subject to misogyny and abuse by a man who felt entitled to her body and enjoyed the freedom of inflicting harm on her, and a father who believed that not having a choice in this is part of her responsibilities as a woman.

Ned and Robb were both better people than Cersei. They were, even so, more privileged in gender politics. Competency and good morals will exempt you in situations where you have an actual power to make a difference, not where the whole socio-political structure of Westeros is concerned. Not all men who benefit from the patriarchy are bad people, and not all women who are victimised by the patriarchy are good people. The patriarchy is not a system of merit. To suggest that a woman is less deserving of misogynistic abuse because of how good of a person she is, is just further reinforcement of misogyny.

HotD's insistence that none of the women ever wanted conflict, and all the men wanted conflict, and all the women are incapable of reckless violence, and all the men are incompetent savages, does not a nuanced approach to displaying the patriarchy make.

Dany wanted power. Dany got power. She got it via burning an enslaved woman alive whose true sin was refusing to be appeased by someone from the same tribe that attacked hers and took away everything she knew. Dany is still one of the most compassionate characters in the story.

Why does Rhaenyra hesitate to get vengeance on the man whose conspiracies led her sons to their deaths? Why did Alicent first groom her sons to oppose Rhaenyra then took a bunch of stupid pills and acted surprised when the Greens' Council said okay, let's kill her, like it somehow escaped her that competing for the throne would lead to that? Why did Rhaenys go on a rant about serving men to Alicent that, while a good speech, was entirely fucking stupid for her to have given the circumstances? Why is it that everyone is okay with "well, she's a woman" being given by the showrunners as an excuse every time something nonsensical happens with Alicent or Rhaenyra? Why isn't Helaena changed by her grief?

Why aren't the women allowed to be angry and spiteful and full of grief in this story that's about two women who were angry and spiteful and full of grief? Why can't Hollywood understand that patriarchy isn't bad just because women are Good actually but because discrimination and exploitation of half of human population in favour of empowering the other is bad. That Rhaenyra holding a sword she wasn't going to use anyway does fuck all for her character when she's not allowed the space to grow into her rage, because she's meant to stay sensible.

(P.S. Targaryen women going into battle isn't some unheard of concept and I have no idea why Condall acted like it is since s1)

THE POINT is not that Rhaenyra was a worthier ruler than everyone and better suited for the throne than her male counterparts of the time (although she certainly was worthier than Aegon). It's that male heirs worse than her would be entitled to the throne and inherit it with no obstacles while she was denied her birthright simply for being a woman. And yes, some of those who denied her were other women. Royal women throughout history perpetuated the patriarchy and enforced it.

i’m glad you asked friend bc i do fr have some thoughts on the matter it’s literally impossible for me to not have an opinion about everything that happens ever at all

SO 👏

listen, to get it out of the way, did i think it was hot? yeah. sue me. i’m wild i’m crazy i can’t be tamed. idk what to tell you.

other than that, my thoughts are really like in two main chunks.

firstly, i’m not quite sure where people are getting the idea that this oedipal complex plot line isn’t in character for aemond…? that’s genuinely confusing to me. obviously everyone’s allowed to have their own opinion but like…. it’s perfectly in line with his character, idk what to tell you.

in s1, alicent is the only one we see ever standing up for him or comforting him. he goes to her after the pink dread incident, which shows that he’s clearly comfortable doing that—that going to his mother was probably something he did regularly if not often. she’s also the only one who outwardly gives a fuck about his eye and who tries to get justice for him, whether you agree with her reasoning, etc or not. no one else is sticking up for him.

aemond has also been raised in a family in which incest is normalized. YES, not parent/child incest but……… y’all incest is incest. he’s very used to the idea that showing you care for a family member can sometimes look romantic.

it’s not a mystery to me that those wires got crossed. he loves his mother but he doesn’t know how to show or really think of that love in a healthy, “normal” way. given what he’s grown up with/around, that’s not shocking.

and that’s not to say that aemond himself is not disturbed by the attraction he has toward alicent. i think he is. and like i said, there is no precedent for parent/child relationships in his family, unlike brother/sister, uncle/niece, etc. he knows that THAT part isn’t normal, but he also doesn’t know how to stop it. it’s very tragic.

and yes i understand he’s like the only damn targaryen to not have incestuous relations in the book but at this point, i think it’s very clear that the source material has like no bearing on the show barring some like BIG huge main plot points. so. cry about it, idk.

secondly, and this is more broad/general and has implications out of just this scene, but my god i wish we could stop with the moral policing. just because i think the scene was hot and sexy doesn’t mean i’m saying anything about it was ethically correct. i understand it’s disturbing and tragic and terrible. but those things don’t always stop something from being arousing or enticing. nor does saying you think something is hot mean you’re like co-signing it and saying it’s okay to do. obviously not.

fiction is allowed to (and SHOULD) explore topics that make us uncomfortable and disturbed. it’s allowed to explore humanity’s darkest points. and you, as a consumer, are allowed to enjoy them! that doesn’t make you a bad person! that doesn’t take away any positive morals and beliefs you do have!

YOU ARE ALLOWED TO ENJOY THINGS! YOU ARE STILL A GOOD PERSON!