#geq

wtf are the two fingers(s)? like are they from the greater will or were they here before and they can just like talk to the stars?

do you think the gloam eyed queen was a human? because I think it would be cooler if she was a badass dragon

I love you

The Two Fingers are the spawn of Metyr, the first vassal beast of the Greater Will sent to the Lands Between prior to the Elden Beast (and potentially another vassal, considering we find 3 Finger Ruins). Though Metyr and the Finger Creepers (the big scary hand enemies) are ambulatory, the Two Fingers are rooted, and seem hinted to be comparable to a fungus, judging by the Finger Mimic item. To compare with our own natural history, they could be like a fantastical version of prototaxites—tall, prehistoric fungal bodies resembling, well, fingers.

They're indebted to the Greater Will and seek to serve it no matter what, even after it "abandoned" Metyr and sent the Elden Beast to replace her. The Two Fingers at once turned to serve this new vassal like a new mother, weaving fate in accordance with their mutual creator, the Greater Will.

As for the GEQ, I figure she was humanoid, and probably related to Marika, but whether a sibling or ancestor, who knows? It is rather strange though that Marika and the Shamans seem to have been practitioners of the flaying festival we witness in Dominula, judging by Marika's shorn left braid. Though we only see the violet eye in Melina, it is rather odd that the other Empyreans never reveal their true eye color(s).... Even Ranni's eye is merely that of a doll, and Messmer's remaining eye is a prosthetic. Notably, these two also appear to share the sealed left eye, suggesting all Empyreans—even Marika—possessed a violet left eye, possibly hinting at their relation to the GEQ. (After all, both Blaidd and Maliketh have/had violet eyes and were spiritually "spliced" from their respective Empyreans, as though this was some trait they inherited...?) Hell, perhaps "the Grandmother" of Shaman Village was the GEQ herself, and even if the Hornsent hadn't abducted Shamans for their jar ritual, Marika might have been flayed as a godling.

What's more, the Black Flame Sigil appears to resemble a fingerprint. Metyr and the Fingers do appear associated with the color violet, so I tend to think that Metyr elected the GEQ as her weapon against the Elden Beast, bent on destroying the gods that usurped her position as the Greater Will's highest vassal. Similarly, I suppose, to the Two Fingers creating the violet-eyed shadows as their living weapons against their own Empyreans... In any case, Maliketh was created to defeat the GEQ and sever access to Destined Death, thwarting this plan forever.

Warning: some SOTE spoilers but mostly base game speculation

I've been playing around with different scenarios of what Messmer and Melina's lineage could be and here they are. I'm pretty sure that they were sired between a union of Marika and an Empyrean, due to each 'godborn' demigod having a butterfly.

Upon wondering who their parents could be, I stumbled into a pretty interesting theory for the Gloam-Eyed Queen and wanted to play around with it.

So so far, here are the possible scenarios for the fire siblings' parentage:

Marika had children with two different god/empyreans making Melina and Messmer step-siblings.

Marika had children with with the Gloam-Eyed Queen (aka GEQ) making Melina and Messmer direct siblings with fire and abyssal traits.

Marika had children with a god/empyrean who ISN'T the GEQ. There are plenty of other gods with fire/snake imagery such as the Serpent or even the Fire Giants (you can see snakes on the giant chalice.) They could even be unnamed.

At first I thought scenario 3 was unlikely, but the more I thought about it the more compelling it got. Why would Melina have all the traits that evoke the imagery of the of the GEQ if the GEQ wasn't her mother? The answer would be simple if Melina simply became the GEQ herself.

If I were to entertain this theory, it would mean that Melina was born an empyrean, waged war against her mother, lost, 'died', only to wake up ages later as your amnesiac spectral guide. It could also tie into Messmer's exile neatly if Marika feared a child from another empyrean could one day usurp her, regardless of his loyalty. Perhaps she assumes that consummating with non-empyreans (Renalla) would have no chance of creating new empyreans. However, Ranni is born, which makes Radagon leave his Carian family behind to keep the power within the family, leading to the births of Miquella and Malenia. Defanging Renalla and the Carians was a bonus, though peace was still kept by granting his Carian children 'demigod-hood' (even though they had it to begin with.)

Even though I think scenario 1 or 2 are more likely than 3, I kind of love the mess it would imply. It also gives some narrative sense to Marika as a disaster mother, stumbling into one mistake after another and hurting her children all the way.

Melina being both Marika's daughter and the GEQ brings up a lot of fun scenarios to play with but poses some problems as well. The biggest hurdle for this theory would imply that Destined Death had not been removed from the Elden Ring before the conflict.

I think this is the shakier part of this theory but it isn't completely impossible if Melina is Marika's oldest daughter. We aren't fully aware what the sequence of events were when the rune was removed and Marika seems to be quite good at omitting pieces of history she does not want in the Lands Between.

The conjection of Marika's relation with her kids would also have assume 5D chess on her part because she was also already sending away Godfrey away. Was she already planning for him and his warriors to rebel against the Fingers back then or was that merely insurance once she doubted their guidance?

That said, this is all speculation so take what you will.

TW: NUDITY