Anon wrote: Hello MBTi Notes. Iāve long been reflecting on something that I havenāt seen addressed with the depth it deserves, and I was wondering if you might be able to offer your insight.
As an INTP, Iāve often noticed that we are frequently framed ā both in fiction and in real life ā as dull, naĆÆve, or socially unimpressive. Even when portrayed positively, INTPs are usually cast as eccentric nerds, side characters, or comic relief. Thereās rarely any emphasis on traits like charisma, leadership, or vision ā qualities that other types seem to be readily granted, even in speculative representations.
This seems to mirror my own lived experience, and that of many INTPs Iāve spoken to. Despite having strong inner convictions and a deep need to understand and influence the world, when I try to speak or assert ideas, it often lands flat. I notice that my arguments, no matter how thought-out, don't create impact ā or worse, they get brushed aside. Thereās a sense of being seen as slow, abstract, or disconnected.
Meanwhile, other types, even when less precise, tend to command more immediate respect or engagement.
Why does this pattern exist? Is there something about the INTP function stack (Ti-Ne-Si-Fe) that makes our strengths socially invisible or easily misread? And how might we break free from these limiting frames without betraying the core of who we are?
Thank you for the thoughtful work you do. Your writing has helped me feel less alone somehow
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There is a subset of types who write to me more often than others, usually because they suffer from long running issues related to isolation. I lovingly refer to them as the "stuck in their head" squad, aka, the four Introverted Intuitive (IN) types. These types often find kindred spirits in each other.
IN types share a unique ability to create an interesting inner life for themselves. However, there are two sides to every personality trait. Having an interesting inner life potentially becomes a disadvantage or liability when it leaves one suffering from problems such as:
tunnel vision (INTJ)
separateness (INFJ)
stagnation (INFP)
detachment (INTP)
Although these sound like different problems on the surface, they all stem from the same deeper phenomenon of not being able to reconcile one's inner life with the outer world. Basically, the extraverted functions are underdeveloped. This means it is easy for INs to intentionally or unintentionally cut themselves off from the world, via tertiary loop, and perhaps even lose touch with reality in extreme cases.
I daresay every IN has experienced what it's like to think things are one way only to (shockingly) discover that nothing is what they thought. The INs who haven't had this experience yet are usually young (and privileged) and still blissfully living in their heads.
Although this inner-outer disconnect affects all four types, they are not all equally aware of it, care enough to change it, or feel compelled to seek help/advice about it. Generally speaking, INs in the early stages of tertiary loop are likely to be in denial, whereas those who have grown weary of tertiary loop (and suffering its negative consequences) are more likely to seek change and reach out for help.
However, this doesn't mean that help will work or that change will be smooth for them, mainly because they might still be unaware of what the underlying problem actually is. These cases are usually easy to identify because they struggle with questions along the lines of "how do I change without betraying myself?", indicating their ambivalence about exiting tertiary loop. Basically, they fear developing extraverted functions because they believe doing so would somehow "compromise" their inner world.
When INs become more aware of the inner-outer disconnect, a common reaction is existential loneliness, due to feeling misunderstood (by loved ones), underappreciated (by society), or unable to access social supports (that would help ease their suffering). One of the reasons I keep this blog is to help INs feel less alone by giving them access to minds with similar experiences.
Unfortunately, there exists a disincentive to connecting directly with others. Socializing can feel threatening because it opens up the door to painfully bursting the tertiary loop mental bubble for good. Such a drastic psychological jolt isn't good for mental health and well-being either. Reluctance to experience this pain can lead to living in a contradiction of wanting and not wanting change at the same time.
The more time spent in tertiary loop, the more difficult it is to exit. The fact is there are comforts to be had in tertiary loop because it is a protective defense mechanism. The heavier the reliance on the comforts, the harder it is to give them up. Bad habits are difficult to break once one has grown too accustomed to their "benefits". Because immature/unhealthy INs live in their own little world and are inattentive to the outer world, it is unfortunately all too easy for them to convince themselves that bad habits aren't bad where they live.
As such, getting out of tertiary loop often requires a strong commitment to change and improvement, a feasible plan of action, and determination to persist during difficult or stressful times. Sadly, the longer a person has been in tertiary loop, the less equipped they are to handle the pain of leaving it.
Usually, the reason they got trapped in the first place was because they did not (have opportunity to) learn healthy coping strategies and thus had to resort to tertiary loop. Therefore, the feasible plan of action must include learning new ways to cope with negative feelings and emotions (i.e. improve emotional intelligence).
A conceptual overview of the IN inner-outer disconnect problem and solution:
When Ni is too out of balance with Se, INTJs become too extreme. They will eventually suffer from tunnel vision if they use Fi to continually justify ignoring empirical evidence of failure (Te rejection). To exit Ni-Fi loop, they must give up extreme thinking, but that can leave them stuck in feelings of dullness or mediocrity. If they genuinely want a fulfilling life, they have to learn how to adopt reasonable standards and balance their goal-seeking to address every important aspect of life (Te+Se development).
When Ni is too out of balance with Se, INFJs become unrealistic. They will eventually suffer from separateness if they use Ti to continually rationalize away critical feedback (Fe rejection). To exit Ni-Ti loop, they must temper idealism, but that can leave them feeling empty or jaded. If they genuinely want to feel at peace with the world, they have to learn to adapt their vision to better fit the contexts of day-to-day existence (Fe+Se development).
When Fi is too out of balance with Te, INFPs become solipsistic. They will eventually suffer from stagnation if they use Si to remove all possible interference with their inner status quo (Ne rejection). To exit Fi-Si loop, they must admit that their feelings/values have led them astray, but this can leave them feeling lost or broken. If they genuinely want life to move forward, they have to learn to make use of mistakes and flaws as opportunities for becoming more skilled at life (Ne+Te development).
When Ti is too out of balance with Fe, INTPs become very limited in their perspective. They will eventually suffer from detachment if they use Si to continually dismiss certain ideas as being unworthy of consideration (Ne rejection). To exit Ti-Si loop, they must admit that their understanding of the world is myopic, but this can leave them feeling dejected or apathetic. If they genuinely want to bring their ideas to fruition, they have to learn to enjoy the process of continually testing and improving them, in order to pick up the most skilled methods of communicating them (Ne+Fe development).
I think tertiary Si and inferior Fe issues have been covered pretty well for INTPs, so you can refer to previous posts. Perhaps you haven't fully realized the extent that Si loop has constrained you. You see yourself one way, but others see you completely differently. An unrealistic self-image is a tell-tale sign of inner-outer disconnect.
Part of the disconnect comes from you because Si loop and Fe blindness make you unable to address all the complicating factors that influence successful expression of the self. Part of the disconnect comes from others because they might not be fully equipped to understand you without your help. Both of these problems are within your power to address.
If your knowledge of human psychology is basically limited to Ti+Si thinking, then your understanding of people is lacking, so you don't know how to appeal to them. You are basically doing what most people do, which is appeal to others based on what works for yourself, rather than what works for them. The fact of the matter is most people aren't INTPs, or even INs, so they don't think like you do.
One of the main reasons people learn about personality type is to learn how to bridge individual differences in perception and judgment. In order to communicate with types that are quite different from you, it is sometimes necessary for you to learn to speak some of their language. The more "languages" you learn, the more versatile you can be when socializing with people.
This is unfortunately just something all INs have to deal with because they are a statistical minority. Minorities often have to go the extra mile to make themselves seen and understood by the majority. It also doesn't help matters to be an introvert in a society that values extraversion more.
However, it's important to remember that you have extraverted functions and you can learn to use them effectively. It is mainly a matter of how willing you are to realize your potential. Everyone has their challenges in life, and meeting challenges bravely is the path to growth. An important aspect of type development is about unlocking hidden strengths, but you won't be able to do that if you continue to believe improvement equals "self-betrayal" (i.e. Ne rejection).
Perhaps you mostly notice INTPs who are similar to you in terms of type development stage, since we unconsciously seek reflections of ourselves in the social/media landscape. While it is true that the majority of people struggle with ego development issues (and thus get represented as such in fiction), there are certainly examples to be found of people who are further along in type development, usually older in age. Make a point to look out for them and you might discover valuable inspiration for your own development.
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Was is true that if an infj stuck in Ni-Ti loop, they often mistaken as an intj? Read this sometime ago and I'd like to hear your take on this
Oh yes. If you come across as introspective and analytical, you might be slapped INTx label. If you seem quite chaotic and indecisive, people will add P at the end, and if youāre a bit obsessive, judgemental and goal-oriented, youāll be labelled as an INTJ.
When it comes to self-typing, INFJs might mistype as INTxs if they have been stuck in Ti-loop for lengthy amount of time. This manifests as thinking in circles and producing lengthy monologues that donāt come to any firm conclusions. And yet the INFJ will trust her/his own judgement only.Ā
A looping INFJ uses Ti defensively to rationalise withdrawn and socially irresponsible behaviour. However, they can barely articulate those reasons despite feeling like they have them. This is because once INFJ tries to articulate those reasons, they realise that they do not hold as much weight as they feel they should. Why? Because there is something else going on,Ā āreasonsā being merely a defensive mechanism.Ā
This is not something INTJ does, for example. Looping INTJs donāt concoct complex rationales for their inaction or irresponsibility. Instead, they simply accuse someone of immorality they do not want to deal with. It will not confuse you like INFJās monologue might, but it will annoy you.Ā
Anon wrote: Hello! I'm INTJ, 28, female. I'm wishing you to best, i think there's no need to tell how smart and sincere you are anymore. My question is about relationship problems. I was in a relationship with an INFJ for almost 5 years and we ended it peacefully. I've took a nice break myself and enjoyed my loneliness. But during one of my company's projects i met with someone. He's a typical ENTJ, he is really charismatic and dominant. We're in a relationship now. We started to live together and as a result of this i started to know him better. He's really a smart, intellectual, creative one. He's a real problem solver. There's no single problem about him. All about me.
I was knowing my ex boyfriend since i was a child, we have grown together, then we started a relationship. He was the "boyfriend" in my mind. And i've started to missing his behaviour. It's so hard and embarrasing to admit this. This is totally wrong. But let's continue. He was so calm, wise and smart in his own way. We were able to talk even without talking. He was always know the things i never told him. I was able to talk him about my absurd desires and thoughts. I was sure that he wouldn't judge, he would understand. After all, he was my best friend. He was a good listener and i was a problem solver.
But my new boyfriend is a total different person. He's so direct in his communication. If he wants something, he tells. If he doesn't like one of my friends, he tells. No hesitation. He's exactly like me about mentality. He's better and quick with solving problems than me even if they're incredibly complicated. This makes me feel frustrated and useless. He doesn't needs me about anything in his life yet he says he loves me. I believe he loves me.
But since i'm an horrible person i'm so used to be the person which is smart and handle things in a relationship. I feel like not enough and i'm on the wrong place. But on the other hand, i love him. He has a perfect controlling even on his anger on me. He really likes and tolerates me. Also i know this is all about my ex, and my habits yet i'm confused. What do you think i should do? Thank you.
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Yes, it is difficult when you meet someone who exposes your shortcomings. It induces shame, envy, jealousy. You can take it as reason to beat yourself up. Or, you can take it as an opportunity to examine your self-esteem and correct some of your problematic thinking about what makes a person "valuable" or "worthy".
For example: Do you believe that there are no other reasons to love someone other than needing their services? Do you believe that one person should be able to satisfy all your needs and wants? Do you believe it's a thought crime to miss someone's good qualities after they're gone? Do you believe that when someone does something better than you then they are better than you?
There's a problem with your moral values if you believe that a person's worth is so easily dismissed. It's a very harsh and narrow-minded way of looking at the world. Do you look down upon people struggling with learning disabilities? Shall I drown myself in self-loathing every time the plumber fixes my toilet because I can't? If you can have understanding for those situations, you should extend that understanding to yourself.
When your own thinking leads you astray because it is not based on logic and reason but merely on "feelings" stemming from inferiority, then it speaks to a need to improve your critical thinking skills. Scrutinize your beliefs and values. Where did they come from? Why do you have them? Are they appropriate? Are they realistic? If not, correct them. Otherwise, you'll keep feeling all kinds of negative emotions like guilt or shame for no good reason. Your energy will be wasted like that.
Anon wrote: Hello, I am INTJ 34F, thank you in advance for patience towards my super long post. My life is fine so far at least on face of it. But I have gone through some hardships which are not visible to outside world easily.
I was victim of child neglect where my parents ignored me and gave more importance to my brother as he is male child. The ignorance was hard for me and my self esteem was hit badly. I was deep introvert and hard fast logical thinker. My social or physical abilities were not developed as I never had any friends to play or social setup to mingle. Also, i never felt any need for same. My parents never tried to help me see where I am failing and how I can improve. I used to immerse myself in books and daydream. I tried to reason with my parents at times but I was very straightforward so they saw it as blunt and it didn't end well. I used to do all things in daydream which I don't do in real life.
The only thing I had was, I was good in studies. So I think that became my identity as that was only thing where I can shine and get attention. But lack of skills in other areas had impact on my confidence. This continued in college as well as job. In college, people used to call me reserved and maybe dull. In job, we had teamwork and because of my introversion and non developed social skill, they started calling me like I have ego issue etc etc. I was independent, low self expression and mainly focusing on work, no much small talk.. all ended up my image being kind of dark. I don't know what I did wrong.
At that point, I wasn't aware about my personality development issue or that I am child neglect victim. I never gave deep thought to any of this then. I used to shine in work due to my technical abilities and used to think that people are either jealous of my achievement or they need just entertainment. I was too busy with my life as well because I had family and young kid, so it was battle of time.
I got to know about MBTI in lockdown and realized that,
I have never accepted any issue with my parents even to myself
I have ignored my health a lot while pulling career
I have never paid attention to other people as in their feeling etc
I did not build strong network at work
I am kind of blind to others strength because I value only intelligence too much
I went on to build life I want with such a focus that I totally missed on other thing. Somehow, money and career advancement became point of self esteem for me
The only good thing is, I am very open to people in my inner circle and they know me, value me, respect me
I wasn't self aware, did not handle my introversion properly. In order to open up to people, I have landed in awkward social situations and then gave up getting frustrated
There was huge gap between how I see myself and how others see me. I didn't know why this is happening
I have burned bridges with few people when they were open to have discussions
Now, I feel terrible. I miss people I have hurt or misbehaved. There are few career opportunities I have lost. I am not sure if this is sign of immature INTJ or something to do with my childhood or entirely different issue.
Once I knew MBTI, I researched and improved a lot. Now, I am far more balanced person. My husband and other close people are noticing change in me and in general, I can sense it myself. But, I am not able to let go past. It's like I am carrying it in my head that I was like this. I don't have any shame associated with it. I am ok with my past but I just want to live free and close that chapter in my head permanently.
There are few people who I really miss but now can not go back and make things right. I am having hard time accepting it. I keep on regretting myself like why I wasn't aware about all this little earlier
I would like to hear your thoughts as they help me clear my head
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The topic of regretting past mistakes comes up often, search the relevant tags, like this post. It doesn't really matter "when" you learned, as long as you did eventually. If "when" matters so much to you, then perhaps you have some pridefulness issue to work through due to having an unrealistic image of what you "should" be. Unrealistic images are a common path to self-inflicted suffering.
You spend a lot of time punishing yourself for mistakes and not enough time appreciating how they allowed you to progress and grow. What would your life be without mistakes? Without them, you'd have far fewer opportunities to realize the truth of yourself. In other words, your perspective on mistakes is problematic. They should be embraced rather than derided.
People only do what they know. You can't know everything or be good at everything. Once you've learned what you didn't know, you ought to forgive yourself for the past ignorance. Whatever you imagine was the "perfect" way to handle things doesn't really exist. If you could've done better back then, you would've.
Take control of your mind: Let go of the imaginary scenarios you've created of the past or imaginary ideals of what you should've been and proceed with humility in facing up to the current state of your shortcomings, flaws, and weaknesses (requires Te). The process of living is experiencing and growing. Or do you believe it's about being born perfect out of the womb?
Anon wrote: Hi! Iāve read a lot of your posts, especially your ones about the inferior functions which was really informative to me. (Thank you!). I am fairly sure that I am an XSTJ type. I was wondering if you could give your insight on which one you think is more likely? I canāt figure out the order of the functions but I think I use Si Te Ne and Fi. Sorry this is kind of long.
For background on my Fi section - I have recently had some problems in a workplace ā bullying/unsafe practice/poor management. It escalated and fell apart in a big way (I got screwed over basically lol) and I eventually made the tough decision to leave for my own well-being. I had been involved with the company for 2 years and gave everything I had to that company. It was my dream job and I worked so hard for it. And I worked so hard for my degree too. My friends and family and even colleagues told me it wasnāt my fault and they wouldāve quit too and they told me I handled it well. I feel like I defined myself on my work. I was so proud of my ā¦ success? I guess. I donāt even know.
This first part I have this sort of recurring issue in my life where something goes wrong at work for example and I start feeling this way when normally iām fairly level headed and ambitious. I think itās Fi, and maybe inferior? I thought I was an ISTJ but your description of inferior Fi really landed with me lol.
Itās like Iām having some sort of existential crisis. I feel like I donāt know who I am anymore or maybe I never did. I question everything about myself. I am trying so hard to figure out what matters to me and I canāt. I donāt know where to go in life. Iām so emotional for no reason. I feel embarrassed and ashamed of myself. Iām pushing my friends and family away because Iām embarrassed that I had to leave my job. Iāve isolated myself from everyone. I feel so irritable all the time and I hate it. I feel like I failed.
People close to me have told me I need to stop being so hard on myself but I donāt know how. I feel like Iām wasting my time and my life by being so emotional. Itās so incredibly frustrating. Itās not like me, usually I bounce back and try again but this has really shaken me up. I feel like I should āfollow my heartā so I can be happy and fulfilled but I donāt even know what I want and Iām wasting time trying to decide, the more time passes the more restless I feel. Iām so scared of getting old and dying with regrets about the way Iāve lived my life. I think Iām also scared of not being able to make my family proud or make myself proud. Iām so torn and lost. I donāt know how to stop defining myself and my worth on like ā¦ working lmao.
More generally, I think I can get stuck in patterns where I worry excessively about my values and who I really am. It happens maybe a couple times a year lmao. But I also think I usually do know my values? There are things I donāt tolerate and have no patience for and like I wouldnāt change my mind on it cos itās one of my core values. Like, bullying/injustice/unfairness etc. So I donāt know if my Fi is inferior. I have a lot of feelings, I just usually like to avoid them but Iām getting better at dealing with them on a day to day basis, unless something happens like my work drama. I donāt share my feelings with people easily cos I donāt like feeling vulnerable. I know itās like a necessary part of the human experience though.
When I was in my teens I went to therapy and didnāt cry in therapy for years lol. Every time I almost cried I stopped talking and pushed it down until I could continue. They always told me itās okay to cry but I always told them I hate crying cos it makes me feel weak. Iāve grown up some since then lol and i know crying or emotion isnāt a weakness. Logically I know that and would never consider someone else weak for crying or expressing emotion. I think itās a good thing and healthy. Still, I struggle to stop seeing it that way in myself and always beat myself up when I know I shouldnāt. Itās one of my biggest struggles in life. I do cry in front of some people now though hahaha. (And then feel v embarrassed later!) lol.
For Ne, I have a tendency to catastrophize and assume the worst. Like, if one of my family members goes out for a drive and doesnāt text me when I know they should have arrived at the destination by now. I start to think something bad must have happened to them and I start panicking.
It used to be way worse when I was younger and I did it with everything. Car trips, plane rides, being picked up late from school, etc. Maybe thatās just anxiety tho? I tend to prepare for the worst because I donāt like getting caught off guard. Iām known for being a worry-er in my family lol. I worry about everyone. I heard that like imagining multiple worst scenarios for a situation can be low/ inferior Ne.
I think I can use Ne sometimes though. Iām bad at mind mapping and stuff like that, it doesnāt come naturally but Iām good at planning holidays and coming up with ideas of places to go or things to do/see. I get excited about stuff like that, and I like thinking about the future and possibilities of things I could do. I just tend to be more focused on like my life in the here-and-now. And I have to try pretty hard to think in that big expansive mind-map way lol. I sucked at doing mind maps in school.
I think Iām maybe a Si user, because I donāt think Iād even exist without memories. Everything I do and see and experience is for and guided by my memories. Idk though thatās probably true for everyone, do individual people even exist without their memories? itās like, what makes us unique. Thereād be hardly any difference between people if it werenāt for their memories and experiences. Everything iāve ever done, ever seen, smelled, touched, tasted or heard has made me who I am. I canāt go anywhere without being reminded of the experiences and connections iāve had before. Itās just intrinsic to who I am. Part of the reason I love music is just the way it can bring you back to an exact moment in time and you can relive it like youāre there. Itās the way I navigate the world I think. I know what to do because iāve seen it before and if I havenāt then i research to figure out how. I canāt just do things with no preparation.
Te ā I think itās maybe Aux or not dominant because i find it hard to think about how I use it lol, I just do. but idk Iāll try. I rely heavily on data and facts and statistics. I wonāt believe anything without proof. I wonāt make a claim if I canāt back it up with reliable evidence. I care about efficiency, I like things to be done and done right lol. I often end up doing things myself in group projects and organising the work + delegating tasks to everyone else. When I was studying I organised like all the group work cos otherwise nothing got done lol. And I usually ended up editing and cutting it together at the end so I could make sure it was coherent and looked good.
I like to help my family organise their life admin stuff because Iām good at it. I plan holidays cos Iām good at it, I know how to make a plan that makes sense and works. I research where things are in relation to each other so I can make an itinerary that gets the most done each day with the least amount of time wasted on travelling from A to B etc. I was good at making step by step plans for essay writing at uni and then followed them to get it done. I love writing to do lists for myself and using schedules. I canāt work without a to do list or a schedule lol i write one like every day. Even when I had jobs where I did the same thing every day I wrote a list to keep me on track.
When my friends have their lives falling apart they usually come to me to help them with a game plan lol. Sometimes I do get overwhelmed and stressed, but I feel like in serious crisis situations Iām usually able to put aside any feelings and just get shit done. Iāve had family medical emergencies on my hands before or a loved one getting evicted before and have managed to just go into action mode and deal with the problem first and then feel however i feel about what happened a few days later lmao. Feelings get in the way in situations like that imo and thereās no time for it when shit is hitting the fan. I can be bossy sometimes in moments like that but usually apologise later and people understand that I was just dealing w the problem at hand lol and my bossiness wasnāt personal.
I just thought of an example of what I think is me using Te. There was one time where I was with my mum and brother. Somehow a chemical got spilled on the tiles, was left there overnight and kinda destroyed them. My mum was like absolutely devastated and got so emotional and angry, she was blaming herself and also thinking we would have to spend a lot of money to get it fixed and then regretting buying the house in the first place because it has these tiles haha like she was so upset, my brother was mostly just standing there looking concerned and trying to calm her down. I had no idea how to clean chemicals off that type of of tile nor what to do to fix it when it was destroyed by chemicals.
The most obvious and simple solution to me was to just google what to do and find out. (and part of me was surprised that they hadnāt done it yet lmao). So I did that, found out what kind of tiles they were and how to clean off the chemical without making it worse etc. (checked a few different sources to make sure it was reliable info) And then I told them what Iād read and suggested we try it. And then i told everyone what we needed to get and what we needed to do and the 3 of us got to work lmao. And the tiles looked sooo much better after. Everyone stopped freaking out and it was fine, we ended up having fun cleaning the tiles together lol. And then my mum and brother were like āgood job!ā and were thanking me. I remember thinking it was kinda silly to thank me for that cos I barely did anything to be thanked for, like I literally couldnāt imagine going about that situation in any other way. it was the only thing to do that made sense.
Anyway ok Iām gonna leave it here. If you read this far thank you so much for your time. Iād be grateful for your opinion but I also understand you get a lot of asks like this so I get it if not! Thanks again!
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All type assessment requests must follow the instructions on the contact page carefully. You must answer all the questions from the Function Theory Guide for every function of the two stacks you are comparing. It is especially important to address all the points meticulously when you are comparing two very similar types like ISTJ and ESTJ.
Since you didn't follow the instructions properly, the info you provided isn't enough for me to draw any firm conclusion about your type. The most I can say is that nothing you've brought up makes me doubt ISTJ. What you seem to believe is inferior Fi (grip) isn't very convincing to me so far. You also mention receiving therapy and did not specify the reason, but that would be a very important clue for determining unhealthy aspects of your function use.
About the existential crisis: There's nothing wrong with taking pride in your work. As an individual, you have the freedom to decide how much to value work among all the other things in your life. While it's important to know and honor your values, in the real world, you don't have the time, energy, or resources to value everything equally. There are no perfect decisions, no such thing as "having it all". When you choose one path, other paths become unavailable to you. Practical limitations and constraints force you into valuing some things more than others, and you have to make some difficult trade-offs in order to keep life moving forward.
Every trade-off you make will have its up and down sides. The downside to devoting so much of yourself to career is that you will be prone to feeling some form of devastation when things go wrong in that area of your life. Similarly, the stay-at-home parent who identifies too strongly with being a parent will suffer some form of devastation when the kids grow up and move out. The price of living a life fully engaged with what you're doing is feeling a sense of loss or grief when it inevitably ends.
Every trade-off you make in life has consequences. You might not feel them right away, but they will come eventually. How do you deal with them? There are a variety of possibilities:
"Diversification": Make your trade-offs wisely so that you mitigate the impact of the consequences. For example, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Have other equally valid ways of defining your identity. However, this means spreading yourself more thinly.
"Commitment": Follow through with your decisions to the very end. Take full responsibility for the trade-offs you make, which means fully embracing the consequences incurred. In other words, accept the reality of your situation and keep moving along.
"Change": Perhaps the devastation was a sign that you need to do things differently or make different choices. Enact the change that is required to avoid suffering the same sort of devastation again.
"Reframe": Look at your devastation from various angles. Is there a different way to find meaning in it? For example, perhaps you're blowing the situation out of proportion? The problem wasn't that you failed? The problem was you were working for a company with terrible leadership that did not allow you to flourish? Therefore, the lesson isn't to quit the work and give up your identity, but to quit the company and find a better company that truly appreciates your talent and devotion. Or start your own company with full control over how it operates.
You mention recurring issues with managing feelings and emotions. It seems to stem from a tendency to interpret situations much more negatively than is warranted, which leads you to get trapped in the most negative perspective available. The stubborn refusal to see your experiences differently even when others point out how wrong you are might be indicative of Si+Fi loop. The lack of open-mindedness, in terms of not being able to acknowledge or generate alternative viewpoints, might be indicative of inferior Ne. ESTJs are usually more mentally flexible than that and also much more willing to rationalize away their failures, which doesn't fit with your tendency to feel excessively responsible, embarrassed, and ashamed for everything.
Thus, there is compelling evidence that Te+Ne development is required for getting out of the (Si+Fi) mental trap, which suggests that your extraverted funcitons are the weaker pair. It sounds like the most logical way out of the existential crisis is to take control of your life and start a new chapter, to find a place where you can feel both fulfilled and appreciated. Are you resisting proper use of Te? If so, perhaps you need to reflect on why.
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hi iām an istj. i fear the problem im going to describe is resolved by being more Te proactive and taking on more leader responsibilities and failing. just typing that out makes me feel burned out and miserable. anyway i get involved with groups that align with my values to get things done but it always feels like i somehow join things that arenāt as efficient as iād want them to be or stagnate. at the same time that i have strong opinions about what to do i resent having to take on more responsibility to enact it. i want to be part of an established, moral, process/group but it seems like everything is in flux all the time. just making sure: is this Te-Ne dysfunction ?
Your question is about type development. An important aspect of type development is understanding the weaknesses and flaws of your type, in terms of the ways that your type tends to misuse functions. You seem to believe that your problem boils down to a simple lack of desire to lead in group situations (weak Te?), but it probably goes far deeper than that.
Si-Ne problems often manifest as a general aversion to change, specifically, unwillingness to change how one looks at a situation, which would then significantly alter one's approach to it. Imbalance between Si and Ne becomes a very unhealthy stubbornness when one is also prone to Si-Fi loop that thinks in terms of pure absolutes. In essence, you believe what you believe and you want what you want, and nothing and nobody can break through that mental wall. Perhaps not even you.
Auxiliary development is meant to help with Si extremes and Si-Fi loop stubbornness by making you care more about empirical facts (Te) than your frustration (Fi). It isn't always easy to develop the auxiliary function when you come to believe that it interferes with what makes Si feel most comfortable (e.g. "just typing that out makes me feel burned out and miserable"). If using the auxiliary function feels so "tiring", it doesn't mean that you should avoid using it. Quite the contrary. It's an indication that you haven't yet learned to use it properly, which means further development is necessary.
Te wants efficiency, that much is true. However, what separates immature Te from mature Te is how exactly one conceptualizes "efficiency". When Te is immature, one has a very rudimentary understanding of how to be efficient. For example, one is likely to believe that efficiency is achieved through assertiveness or even brute force, i.e., "making" things happen despite all the obstacles in the way. Is it any wonder that using Te feels tiring, then? You're essentially forcing yourself to swim against the current. Si doms are painfully aware that their energy is finite, so they quickly run out of steam.
However, Te isn't really about mustering up energy. This is not what makes TJs smart, strong, and formidable. Mature Te conceptualizes efficiency as reducing the amount of energy required whenever possible, which is why they have a lot of energy to take on very heavy workloads - some people call it "working smart". This is done through facing the empirical facts of a situation head on and learning to work closely with them, which makes it far easier to make them work in your favor.
Your problem requires a two pronged attack:
Are you able to change how you look at situations in order to improve your approach (to address Si-Ne imbalance)?
Are you able to face the empirical facts of the situation and work with them rather than against them (to develop better use of Te)?
Wanting to be part of a process/group that aligns with your values in order to enact some good in the world is an admirable thing to strive for. Presumably, the other people involved in the group have the same sense of mission, otherwise, they wouldn't have joined. However, what you fail to take into account is that people aren't generally single-minded.
Human beings are complex because they are motivated by a multitude of factors, whether they realize it or not. They are full of psychological conflicts, contradictory desires, irrational impulses, old baggage, and unconscious bad habits. And when you bring people together, all that stuff comes out and creates complicated entanglements. A "group" only becomes a "team" when it is able to overcome those psychological obstacles together, and it can be a very long process of learning how to maximize strengths and mitigate weaknesses in every individual member. That's why a lot of groups simply fall apart. While your intention to join the group seems simple and straightforward (because Si-Te is admirable in its ability to keep things simple and straightforward), other people's intentions might not be so simple. If you fail to take into account the irrational aspects of human nature, you will cause yourself needless suffering.
Your frustration with people is likely a manifestation of your unrealistic expectations of them. Perhaps you aren't able to understand people who don't resemble you, let alone work with them. And you will certainly be doomed to fail if the only way Te knows to deal with individual differences is to force everyone to become more like you. That's an impossible task, not because it requires the energy of a thousand suns as you assume, but because you're choosing to fight against reality. Mature Te would advise that you should first face down the empirical facts of how people operate if you hope to discover the most effective way to influence them. Your repeated experience of feeling disenchanted with groups tells you that you're missing an important piece of knowledge about groups and how they operate.
I'll give you a very simple example from my own life. I used to gather with a group of 30-50 people once a week to conduct planned discussions. The discussions never really started on time despite everyone being in their seats because people weren't focused enough at the start of the session. There was often whispering and sidetalking and such that would go on for about half an hour before the room felt settled and focused.
One method of addressing the problem arose organically. Whoever was the main speaker simply started shushing people and it became a thing. Sometimes, it would even escalate to calling people out, like a teacher scolding a student in a classroom. This definitely made the social atmosphere less inviting and more tense. Sure, people would shut up after being called out, but they became less focused due to seething with resentment. Power struggles aren't great for group morale, especially if it's supposed to be a group of equals coming together for a common cause.
It all sounds quite childish, but these kinds of judgments are useless. You can call people childish, inefficient, incompetent, etc etc, but it doesn't solve the problem. And, worse, being judgmental blocks you from understanding people better and working with them. Perhaps an ISTJ would see this as a "mess", an "inefficiency" that wastes time, and evidence of bad character when people break the rules.
However, if you change the way you look at the situation, you might not be so quick to make such judgments. Actually, it's kind of weird for a bunch of people who know each other well to enter a room and immediately sit down quietly. Humans have a natural tendency to socialize as a way to strengthen interpersonal bonds. Isn't group cohesiveness a good thing, since it encourages better cooperation? If you are able to see the benefits of their chatty behavior and how it contributes to group cohesiveness, then instead of fighting against it, you would think of ways to harness it.
The real problem wasn't inefficiency; inefficiency was merely the symptom. The more primary problem was that a lot of people joined the group not just to "get things done", but also to make friends. The structure of the event denied them from fulfilling that important need and then they were more likely to act out. This problem was discovered when people had a chance to talk about what was frustrating them, which meant that the group had to make space to conduct some uncomfortable conversations.
To address the problem, the group eventually decided that the first 15 minutes would be devoted to socializing and allowing people to catch up, with the explicit promise to get down to business when the time was up. Some people brought drinks, others brought snacks. Some even showed up early to have more time to socialize. It enlivened people and enriched their relationships. Being "officially" allowed to get the chattiness out of their system, they were better able to sit down and focus on the planned agenda. The meeting felt like fun rather than a chore. And if you're interested in a cause, don't you want to recruit more people to support it? Making things more fun is one good way to attract support. You can look at it as wasting 15 minutes OR you can look at it as a 15 minute investment.
Solutions to human problems require:
cognitive empathy: figuring out what's really going on inside people's heads (in Te terms it means working only with the empirical facts of the situation, rather than indulging negative Fi judgments)
strategy: taking the time to work with people and figuring out the best way to help them get over obstacles (in Te terms it means investing energy early and wisely to maximize your returns later, rather than putting effort into the wrong places or only stepping in to tackle mere symptoms of the problem)
creativity: harnessing natural human tendencies to produce something useful or worthwhile (in Te terms in means taking what's already there and transforming it into a NET positive, rather than getting too fixated on every little negative detail and losing sight of the bigger picture)
Te can be a great function for dealing with human problems as long as you overcome the immature aspects of it, such as impatience, bluntness, or inflexibility. Every person is unique, so every group is different. Let go of the idea that there is only one way to approach a problem/conflict and you will start to be more creative in your approach. By accepting the fact that things are always in flux and using empirical evidence to understand and predict how change works, TJs become much more effective and efficient at everything they do. When it comes to people, meeting someone different from you is an opportunity to learn how to deal with that kind of person. The more knowledge you have of human psychology under your belt, the better you get at dealing with people's weird or negative tendencies. If a strategy works, use it again. If it doesn't work, adjust it to fit their psychology better.
In your situation, you see the problem as people being inefficient, so your inclination is to step forward and do something to "make" them more efficient. Humans aren't built with the prime directive to be efficient. They're not machines. Their psychology is messy, so trying to force them to behave like a machine is to force them to go against their psychology. In other words, you're choosing the least efficient approach. The more efficient approach, though it requires more intelligent thinking on your part (you want to become more intelligent, right?), is to properly understand the more primary problem of what's really causing them to be so inefficient in the first place. That is the way to discover the right strategy. If you are able to target those obstacles at the very root, efficiency improves more naturally.
Oftentimes, working smart doesn't require you to step up and be THE leader for everyone. As an introvert, it's probably more comfortable for you to work behind the scenes to talk to people, get a better idea of what they need and/or what problems they're experiencing, and incrementally remove the obstacles that are preventing them from focusing on what they should be focused on. You can't fix everything all at once, so just do what you can to fix what you are able to fix at any given point in time. It's a process and some progress is better than no progress.
Is disregarding things entirely when you don't see the appeal a sign of being unhealthy? Asking as an INTJ, who may or may not have managed to anger a few people. I think as a result, I'm often seen as rude and pretentious/holier than thou, but I'd like to think I'm not actually that narrow.
Immature INTJs donāt have the self-awareness to know that they suffer Te and Fi development problems. Unhealthy Te-Fi manifests as overconfidence that often borders on conceit. It makes one very judgmental and believe that oneās judgments are always right (and quick to dismiss evidence to the contrary). In order to learn well, one must have: 1) the intellectual humility to admit to oneās ignorance, and 2) the mental flexibility to accept new ideas and change oneās perspective. But when you have total confidence in your judgments, what reason would you have to venture beyond them?Ā
As a personality trait, narrow-mindedness, by definition, not only means that you fail to consider other possibilities (ignorance), it goes further to imply that you refuse to consider them (stubbornness), which serves to keep you blind to your own narrow-mindedness. I donāt know you, so whether you suffer from this problem is for you to reflect on. What I can tell you is that personal growth doesnāt happen until a person learns to be completely honest about their shortcomings and works to improve upon them.
Hi, I'm an INTJ. Recently I got into a fight with my ENFJ friend. Actually, we had a fight a month ago but I admitted to all my mistakes and asked them for time for me to fix myself and accept my emotions. Aside from her, I have 3 other friends that are really close to me, and she is also friends with them. However, after our first fight, she talked to our INTP friend that it's as if we don't value our friendship when to me, there's nothing wrong. (1/7)
[conāt: I tried making up my lost time with the ENFJ but also spending time w/ my 3 friends. I asked her twice if she was okay when she suddenly became dull but she didnāt reply, yet I held no grudges. But recently, the INFP in one of my 3 friends suddenly opened that he felt isolated from us and decided to end the friendship. (We reunited after 1 week tho, we talked it out.)
I was devastated at that time and canāt tell anything when the ENFJ and INTP asked what happened. I just needed some space.But when I wasnāt able to reply properly they just went mad and said that I donāt even trust them or that I donāt value our friendship when Iām really just unprepared to tell the story yet. I tried to explain my emotional state but they cut me off before I even had the chance to say something.Ā
After that, I said everything how I asked for time once before but their constant emotional outbursts overwhelmed me and did not give me time to reflect.Then they replied that Iām just all talk and no actions, that āvaluing friendshipā didnāt even happen, they also said that I spoke as if I did everything yet nothing worked. But my point is thatās exactly why I asked for time: there are many easy things to say that are difficult to do.Ā
I cannot just change overnight. Iām not saying as if I did everything nor was I entitled to my own efforts, I just wanted to say that Iām trying but their emotional outbursts just kept stacking and Ihad to compensate all the time to the point that I would just suddenly know something severe is already happening. And it was suffocating. I felt being forced into my emotions when they went mad after not telling them what happened, when they themselves said once before that there would be times that your friend is not always the right person to compensate for your problems or sometimes people need space.Ā
I wasnāt able to state my point, though. They blocked me already.I want to fix the problem but I do not know why, and I would also want to see an outsiderās opinion of the situation since my friends tend to get emotional bias. Sorry for the long ask and thank you for your response.]
From a third party perspective? Your friends areĀ āwrongā insofar as they shouldnāt be pressuring you to engage when you arenāt ready for it; they should do a better job of respecting your sensitivities and shortcomings, especially when you are being honest and straightforward about them. You are also āwrongā insofar as you close yourself off from them instead of engaging and settling the problem together; you should do a better job of understanding that closing yourself off does, in fact, communicate to them that you value your own emotional needs more than theirs and that you arenāt really inĀ ārelationshipā but rather only care about self-protection.Ā
You may be the most caring and loyal person out there, but if you arenāt able to express and communicate your care and loyalty, to the point where people even doubt it over and over again, then the problem is yours to solve. It seems that, from their perspective, you have a pattern of closing off, and it is the recurring pattern rather than just one instance that makes them feel dissatisfied. When a problem recurs in a relationship, it means that itās not being solved, and this erodes trust over time. Why? Everyone hopes that the problem can be solved in order to justify continuing with the relationship, especially when people pledge/promise to do better. But those hopes get dashed every time the problem arises again, so it becomes harder and harder to have faith in the relationshipās future each time, because only a fool would continue to have faith in something that keeps failing them. This is the logical consequence of your habit of running and hiding.Ā
Being honest about your inability to engage is helpful because it shows your sense of responsibility, but it doesnāt solve the original problem. Relationships are about connecting and engaging and being involved in each otherās lives. You do things together, you have problems with each other, and you solve them together. If you canāt do these things because you must always keep yourself at a safe emotional distance from everything and everyone, are you really in aĀ ārelationshipā? Without genuine emotional involvement, every person is only really for themselves, and there is no reason to take the relationship any further because it never gets any further thanĀ āI will only be there for you until Iām uncomfortable and then Iām out the doorā.
Relationships are messy, deal with it. Relationships will test you, deal with it. Of course, you can choose to avoid relationships and save yourself all the trouble of caring, but where does this road lead you? Perhaps you unconsciously believe that youāll be happy when you never have to deal with uncomfortable challenges, but youāll also never learn anything new, which means youāll always be stuck exactly as you are for the rest of your life in aĀ āperfectā state of stagnation. How can you live and learn and become a better person when you arenāt willing to face up to your life challenges boldly and bravely?
When auxiliary Te is underdeveloped, INTJs often fail to come up with the right solutions to problems, so they develop the habit of running from every challenge (Fi loop), then they turn around and wonder why they never seem to get anywhere. Running from the messiness of relationships means that you are scared. Being scared means that you have no trust in yourself or other people. Having no trust means that thereās no incentive to continue the relationship. What are you afraid of? Why canāt you engage with problems sooner rather than later? Perhaps you donāt trust people with your feelings because you are afraid of feeling things -> undeveloped Fi. Perhaps you distrust the world because you are afraid of how reality never matches up to your expectations -> inferior Se.Ā
When you live in a constant state of fear and mistrust to the point that itās your ānormalā state and you donāt even realize that somethingās wrong, you canāt have healthy relationships because you never let anyone in and you never allow yourself the freedom to live and learn. Itās very easy to blame other people forĀ āoverwhelming you with their emotionsā. But itās a lot harder to reflect honestly on why you are so easily overwhelmed in the first place and address that personal problem.
