This started as a reblogged response to this original post, but I think it works as a standalone too!
I think what might happen every time these discussions arise in the Dinluke fandom is that whatever gets said ends up going through the Anti Funhouse Mirror before it becomes an onslaught of anon hate, or otherwise gets distorted when shared around from the actual message being given by those most impacted and trying to speak about their own experiences, like an awful game a telephone. Here are some links that helped me understand what was going on. I will primarily be pointing towards the words of those who are best qualified to speak on these topics as they are primarily affected by these issues.
(note: I am a POC fan and a queer fan, but not MLM or Latine, so I may summarize but am mostly linking to centralize them and elevate their voices. Thank you to everyone whose work was linked, and who also advised and gave feedback).
I also want to say that yes, fingers were ABSOLUTELY pointed towards specific genres and writers (and may still be), but this scapegoating has been checked (in the links I have given) and the dialogue largely returned to its original intent. I also want to acknowledge that it was in no way okay that anyone received anon hate or threats.
Pedro Pascal: Race vs Ethnicity
It has been clarified after some initial misconceptions, by white Latine voices, that yes, Pedro Pascal IS White Latino. He still experiences xenophobia because of that, and fandom racism can still occur around this when Din’s skin is darkened while also portraying Latine stereotypes in the same work. I encourage you to check out this explanation of what ends up happening.
Anti-Latine Racism and Xenophobia in Fic
Early on, this conversation mutated when dark fic started to be centered. This should not have happened. Dark fic existing as a genre in and of itself is no issue and not the one being discussed (and anyone who was saying that was distorting the point). Fic rules are kink rules (and to be very clear, I personally am both dark-fic-positive and kink-positive)! The issue brought up is when Din being characterized in Latine stereotypes is the dominant Pattern, not just Din being an abuser in dark fic, but Din also being consistently shown as aggressive and "macho" in vanilla fic, as well as his ethnicity being heavily fetishized (once again, please see the link above, as well as this one). When that is pretty much the common thread through most of the material that exists (and yes there are exceptions, but it takes work to find them), fandom spaces become hostile places to minority groups who are affected by microaggressions and dehumanization every day.
For this one, the point is not against Luke taking a "bottom" position in bed in a fic, or Luke in a dress in its own right (and anyone saying that has drastically distorted the point – there are some AWESOME works in this fandom that showcase gender nonconformity!)
Please see here for an explanation of the "bottom" issue.
And please see here for the nuances of the dress issue and GNC portrayals (of which there are some awesome ones out there!) being discussed.
And here as well for expansion on that.
And more on application of heteronormativity to queer pairings as the fandom "default," and their defaults in fandoms in general.
To summarize these above links: it's not portrayals of gender non-conformity or being on the receiving end of anal penetrative sex in and of themselves, it's the characteristics of "bottom" and gender nonconformity being consistently and heavily conflated with characteristics of weakness, submissiveness, and archetypal femininity, in a way that if it were applied to a female character, it would clearly be sexist (and it already is sexist when applied to an MLM character). It's the consistent conflation of "luke in a dress" with "must mean he's 'the bottom' and 'submissive and innocent.'" It's also the fact that there is a Default character in this pairing that such characteristics are given to, even when done respectfully in their own right (e.g. there are fics where Luke bottoming is just Luke bottoming, no bearing on his personality, but the fact that it HEAVILY skews towards Luke when looking at fic percentages is an overall Pattern). Just as above, when these are the default patterns and common threads in a huge percentage of material (vanilla, dark, otherwise) fandom becomes a hostile space for those who constantly experience microaggressions and bigotry in everyday life.
Finger-Pointing and Scapegoating
The person who originally said "louder and meaner" has since apologized for centering dark fic and taken accountability for their mistakes in the conversation, and has clarified what they meant by "louder and meaner." I won't speak for them, but will link their apology post below. However, I'll also leave you with some links to people again clarifying that this conversation should never have pointed fingers towards a specific genre or specific people as solely responsible:
Apology and accountability post
Other posts referenced: Here
and here (same link as shown in point 4)
And of course, there are plenty of more supporting posts than what I have pasted above!
This conversation is not about who is “allowed” to write or read queer characters, or characters of various races and ethnicities and nationalities, or fic showcasing dark topics. It also is not about what genres are “good” or “bad,” or saying writers of one genre specifically are at fault for the overall fandom trends. If arguments of that nature have reached you (I've seen some), they are distortions of the intent (and many of those who initially pointed fingers have checked themselves and listened when told this was not okay and not the intent, and not even accurate, and have re-engaged with the discussion with the intent to learn). It’s also not an accusation of bigotry of any individual.
Overall it is a call for introspection, for recognition of implicit biases pushed by mainstream society that we have defaulted to and currently dominate the ship, and for recognition that this dominance actively pushes microaggressions in unavoidable, unfilterable, and demeaning ways at marginalized fans and prevents them from taking part in fandom without having to endure the stereotypes that pervade their everyday lives. While there are definitely amazing works in the fandom that do not fit the descriptions I have linked and summarized above, they unfortunately aren’t the norm in the culture just yet. I strongly believe that for the vast majority of fans, the harm is unintentional, but the harm is also very real.
Niche fic and content that is not for everyone and is not intended to reflect reality will always exist and has a right to exist, and individual fics and works in their own right do not a Pattern make. However, this post describes the dominant trends in fandom (not just ours!), and it is which trends that emerge as dominant that reveal how we collectively are at least subconsciously still perceiving MLM and Latine people, and this is what we perpetuate by remaining uncritical of these trends.
It is also true that no minority is a monolith, and it may be asked who gets to decide where "the line" is drawn. My own answer to that, speaking only as myself, is that it's messy for sure, there will always be debate and discussion, no two people will always agree, etc. Imperfect works also have a right to exist, and the “perfect” should never be made the enemy of the “good.” The point is that we make a good-faith effort and be willing to listen, because so much of what is presented does not stem from specific malicious intent to drive out marginalized voices. No content will be for everyone, but until we listen and learn, very little content will be 'for' the people who have been speaking on this for so long, people who resemble the marginalized identities the ship portrays in real life. And in the meantime, stereotypes will endure.
This is a very good post, both the original, where that post's OP describes the "death of the author" and "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" ideas of engaging with content in general fandom, which I strongly agree with, as well as the reblog by that OP last year, clarifying that this does not mean that sensitive topics or minorities should not be approached with consideration, respect, and intentionality in fan works, or that stereotyping should be ignored, no matter who is posting.
Here are links to people who have specifically offered to engage with those seeking to learn how to portray MLM and Latine characters without falling back on stereotypes:
