#fandom menace

"Saw's methods hurts the Rebellion more than it helps"

I've seen this sentiment come up a lot, especially after his appearance in The Bad Batch. In canon, there are certainly people who think that, chiefly Mon Mothma (The Rebel Files, Rebels) but the consensus within the Alliance until it's official formation is that they cannot be picky and that he and his PARTISANS are KNOWN for getting jobs done.

And say what you want about his methods, but the Alliance themselves have more than one time asked for his help and even when they didn't like him whatsoever. And when they didn't, it hurt THEM badly.

In Leia: Princess of Alderaan, Bail is big mad because he killed Moff Panaka, believing he was more sympathetic and didn't like how it almost costed his wife/daughter's life (despite the fact the Partisans had no clue they were meeting). Despite all the hubup and Bail getting bigmad, it actually saved Leia, as he was about to reveal to the Emperor that based on the resemblance, she had to be Padme Amidala's daughter.

In Rebel Rising novel, Saw explicitly talks about how he doesn't like how they prioritize things but remain critical about his methods. One of his former Partisans, Idryssa, went to form her own group in the Rebel Intelligence but found when she wanted to help liberate Tamsye Prime of slavery, the Alliance High Command didn't believe it was worth their time to fight, prioritizing other unnamed dilemmas. She ended up going to Saw in hopes he could do a recon mission that'll give her valuable intellgience. He lambasts her for it, telling her it's ironic she had all the ideas to help the galaxy but could only hope people like him do the dirty work. For context, that part of the story is where Saw gets invited to the Alliance (despite doing the worse thing he's done in canon), which he accepts the mssion for FREE, and it is that mission that created the reason why Jyn was abandoned (ill get to that later).

In the episode "In the Name of the Rebellion" for Star Wars Rebels, the Jaliandi Station the Empire established essentially made it possible for the Empire to quickly respond to any distubances, including a mission Hera was on that was botched unexpetedly. The episode, while grooming over Gerrera's methods, also mentioned that he already warned them about it and they ignored it, paying the price for it. This stems from the fact all their tactics are going to, ultimately, come to a "peaceful resoultion". They also try salvaging this by wanting to plant a tracker so they can also listen into communications and adjust their strategy. Both Ezra and even Hera herself believe it's a damn useless tactic and destroying it was the best option. Plot tiwst: it was. Empire took a L.

Rogue One had a big point that the Rebel leaders were unwilling to act decisively and Rebels had shown that for YEARS, Saw warned them that the Empire were building a superweapon. The reason he wasn't listen to? According to The Rebel Files, Mon Mothma dismissed him entirely on grounds that it was too extreme even for Palpatine and that she doesn't like his line cynicism. It took confirming the Death Star to convince her and High Command to talk to Gerrera and/or take him seriously, who has since cut contact with them altogether.

The Bad Batch is the most recent of these examples as his attempt to kill Tarkin and higher up leaders of the Empire led to a series of events that cumilated to Tech's death and TBB's eventual capture. A lot fans wanna blame Saw despite the fact that they interrupted HIS operation and he was planning to assassinate both Krennic and Tarkin included. Tech has a "counterpoint" but as the audience, we know thsoe two are instrumental to the Death Star and given Rogue One's context, the Empire wouldn't have been able to have a Death Star BECAUSE the research on kyber crystals came from Galen, who was a FRIEND of Krennic (to an extent; Galen wasn't favoring him that had especially later), and after Order 66, a lot of experts on that field were killed or they hid because they knew anybody involved with Jedi was gonna get hunted too. Saw would of killed two importantfigures in the Empire in one fell swoop and lets not forget it was TBB that alerted the Empire in the first place and he was doing it in YEAR 2, when the Empire was still up and coming and had a leadership deficit.

Both the Rebels and TBB show gave counter points with comparing his tactics to instead using it to gather intel. I wanted to address the fact that despite what Tech and one of the guys in High Alliance state that ultimately, they were WRONG: the Jailandi relay being destroyed was a all out positive and Tarkin and Krennic's respecitve connections is what brought to fruition two big parts of the Empire and you couldn't replace the leadership capability Tarkin had. It is literally no surprise in canon, the Empire fell apart in 4 years even if they were close to winning but even in that timeframe, both Sidious and Vader had to be more direct in their approach and the galaxy was quickly against them.

One of the real reasons the Alliance had problems was because of their leadership; it was a known fact that in general and especially after Bail's death, High Command would only act dependent on Mothma or otherwise be indecisive and stall. Her core belief was on searching for a peaceful resolution and she stood on that hill to the point she ERASED Saw contributions while being okay with it if it were her friends that did it, as according to Bloodlines, there have been at LEAST 2 instances prior to the destruction of the Death Star the Rebellion under her leadership engaged in "terrorist tactics", one that involved slaughter.

In fairness, Mothma had a problem with her camp (Rebel Intelligence) using those tactics but at the end of the day, guess what? She endorced Draven, even when he got on his mysoginistic bullshit with Jyn. The Alliance's own propaganda department had to start lying/exageratting because they found out ignorant people will not listen to the truth (shocker). [Star Wars Propaganda: A History of Persuasive Art in the Galaxy] And guess what? She signed off the destruction of the Death Star, which totalled to about 1.5 million deaths, the majority being civilians and low-ranking officers dedicated to maintaining it. (Bloodlines) Mothma spent YEARS ignoring, underplaying, and erasing Saw's influence, contributions, and her problem with him was personal, as essentially, she didn't like how Saw both underline the very methods she will have to endorce/support/perform one way or another and that his actions didn't benefit HER, as he was on that "IDGAF about her methods" team. All that and she ended up having to support doing the more morally repugnant things he said she would have to do.

In short? It's complex but Saw doesn't inheretly actually hurt the Rebellion in any special way, despite what the Empire propaganda in universe claims and some opinions of characters (typically Mothma).

"He is a short-sighted fool who just blows stuff up"

Another big claim I see fans put out here is that Saw lacks forsight and doesn't think things through. It's a hilarious thing because the "short sighted fool" was the only one who saw the the Death Star coming YEARS before anybody suspected otherwise. Characters spent so much time writing him off, trying their hardest to contend with it, and wanted so badly for him to just do things their way even when he told them they were fighting an enemy who plays dirty and didn't care about people.

Funny enough, Leia in canon (by the time she led the Resistance) doesn't actually hold too must amnimosity for Saw because at that point, the New Republic paid the price for playing with Mothma's mindset, the First Order took advantage of her compassionm, the Rebellion/New Republic's still possessed indecisiveness without a clear leader telling them what to do, and the Rebellion/New Republic did not learn their lessons when it comes with dealing with the Empire when they were the leading government. Leia had to create her own militia to fight the First Order and they didn't have no allies for a while. She actually thinks they owe him a lot (The Rebel Files)

Saw said it in Rebel Rising: it'll take a tragedy, the galaxy can't ignore it to get people actually united. And guess what? It happened...3 times over: the 2 Death Stars got people working together after the destruction of Alderaan (Jedha too except in universe, a lot people still bought Jedha being destroyed in a "mining accident") and Palpatine publically announcing himself alive was the only thing that got people to come together against the Empire/First Order/Final Order. The latter happened 35 YEARS AFTER HIS OWN DEATH.

I don't personally agree with his actual methods typically but lack of foresight my ass. Dude had foresight on a level comparable to a Jedi and he has no Force sensitivity. He called out the Death Star and knew what it'll take for the Alliance to get their shit together.

"He's a hot-head, self centered, paranoid leader who hurts his own allies"

I've seen a combination of things, especially regarding his character youthful appearances in Clone Wars/TBB, that suggest he is a hot-head, that he is paranoid (usually spoken in retrospect to his later appearances), and that he doesn't care for his allies. I've seen people in fanfiction try to say he burns people when they outlive their usefulness or claim he on'y is worried about his own skin.

That's especially not true. There's a reason why he parallels as a non-Force senstiive version of Anakin Skywalker; they are both hot headed, they are both competent leaders, they hate slavery and indentured servitude with a passion, their best trait is the care and compassion they have for others in which they subvert with logic and reasoning and it isn't always easy for them, and they are respectively feared in similar ways. With that said, there are some difference

Saw does possess compassion even with his darkness; he is willing to protect his Partisans and not risk their lives. Even though he loves them, he also KNOWS some of them are on that "Fuck them kids" team (which he is not all okay with) and typically tries doing good things for them, he "abandonded" Jyn (she knows why but she refused the explaination) because his own group were wanting to use her as a extortion tool for Galen, which didn't sit right with Saw. He genuinely likes Ezra and Sabine too. He likes Megyn. He was willing to help refugees displaced by the Empire way back since TBB. There's a reason for his own databank saying "Saw loses much in his decades of combat, but occasional flashes of the charismatic and caring man he once was shine through his calloused exterior". Even in his more morally bankrupt decisions like adopting Jyn as a child soldier, he explains he does it because he recognize that child innocence will not protect her from Stormtroopers and evil who don't care and rather teach her how to survive and fight for herself. And he genuinely teaches her everything he knows. She is a good foil for Leia for a myraidof reasons.

That man had inhailed Genosisian insecticide from a mission and chemical burns from saving Jyn's life and that man still fought. He apprently lost his leg the same year he died in and he was almost willing to keep fighting even when he was going off his rockers towards the end.

In all, it's again complicated when you get all things but he is not this cold man who abandons his allies at the first sign of trouble. He is one of the first original rebels, the Empire's most wanted person that isn't a Jedi or in the Alliance (tbf, he was dead then), and one of the most deadliest rebels the Alliance had without factoring in Jedi.

The real reason fans don't like him

Let be for real; a lot of people don't like Saw is because he parallels a lot with Mon Mothma, who is a white privilege woman who emobdies the traits associated with heroes (restraint with enemy, peaceful resolutions, "rising above to be better") though unlike Jedi, she is going to be judged differently because she won't have to worry about the responsibility of the Force and it's relation to a character's mindset. She is on the side of the protagonist whe emobody these similar traits so Saw is always going to be seen as "wrong", even when the good guys run headfirst into his methods like gundarks seeing headlights. That's not to say she doesn't have her own points, reasons, stife, and whatnot but fans in this fandom wanna side with "Mommy Mothma" for a reason.

Another reason is that he is a black character and unlike Mace Windu, he HAS crossed lines and does things morally repugnant and distasteful. That I will never argue. However, people love having black characters like that to vindicate and excuse their racist behavior; there were people on tumblr making actual comments about having a mob and lynching him after bein blamed for Tech's death and tried to pass it off as a joke. I have never seen peole wanna lynch mob Anakin Skywalker for killing younglings but they'll go talk about it for their residental, white-washed favorite boi (he's my favorite too btw) onto Saw and thought they were slick all the while pretend Tarkin isn't there or "Well he's a villain so it's expected". Got people out here making headcanons about how all the Clones hate Saw for what happened to Tech or xyz knows when most likely, they don't know or don't care like the way they think their faves would.

What personally frustrates me about this and why I'm invested in even calling this out is because, in all, this fandom will have people ask for nuance and looking at things beyond the surface but the moment the concept is rooted in ideas outside Western ideals or the character in question is a person of color or at least is "coded" as such, they lose their mind and spread the most surface level of misinformation and Saw is no exception.