#ettiquette

Lingthusiasm Episode 99: A politeness episode, if you please

If it wouldn't be too much trouble, if you have a spare half hour, could we possibly suggest that you might enjoy listening to this episode on politeness? Or, if you'd prefer a less polite version, "Listen! Now!"

In this episode, your hosts Gretchen McCulloch and Lauren Gawne get enthusiastic about what politeness and rudeness are made up of at a linguistic level. We talk about existing cultural notions of "saving face" and "losing face", aka the push and pull between our desire for help vs our desire for independence, and how they've been formalized in a classic linguistics paper. We also talk about being less polite to show intimacy, addressing God in English and French, which forms of politeness are and aren't overtly taught, different uses of "please" in UK vs US English, levels of indirectness, email etiquette across generations and subcultures, rudeness and pointing, nodding norms in Japanese and English, smiling at strangers in the US vs Europe, and how a small number of politeness ingredients can combine in so many different ways that are culturally different.

Click here for a link to this episode in your podcast player of choice or read the transcript here.

Announcements:

In this month’s bonus episode we get enthusiastic about science metaphors and learning everything with Tom Lum and Caroline Roper, cohosts of Let's Learn Everything! We talk about whether programming languages should count as a language credit, numbers and ritual stock phrases like seventeen and "once upon a time", as well as etymology and metaphor in ecology, chemistry, and linguistics. We also talk about turning the "constantly trying to figure things out" part of your brain off, attending the word of the year vote, and how linguists have a tendency to be curious about language all the time, which... sometimes gets us into trouble.

Join us on Patreon now to get access to this and 90+ other bonus episodes. You’ll also get access to the Lingthusiasm Discord server where you can chat with other language nerds. Looking for a last minute gift for the language nerd in your life? Or are you trying to get someone in your life to love linguistics as much as you do? Patreon have newly added a gift memberships feature! So if you'd be excited to receive a patreon membership to Lingthusiasm, forward this link to your friends and/or family with a little wink wink nudge nudge.

Here are the links mentioned in the episode:

'Politeness: Some universals in language use' by Penelope Brown and Stephen Levinson

Wikipedia entry for 'Politeness'

Lingthusiasm bonus episode 'The Most Esteemed Honorifics Episode'

'Routine politeness in American and British English requests: use and non-use of please' by M. Lynne Murphy and Rachele De Felice

@killersundy video about the Irish offering cake to the Irish on TikTok

Lingthusiasm episode 'If I were an irrealis'

Lingthusiasm episode 'Look, it’s deixis, an episode about pointing!'

'Nodding, aizuchi, and final particles in Japanese conversation: How conversation reflects the ideology of communication and social relationships' by Sotaro Kita and Sachiko Ide

'Why Americans Smile So Much' by Olga Khazan for The Atlantic

'Three-year-olds infer polite stance from intonation and facial cues' by Iris Hübscher, Laura Wagner, and Pilar Prieto

You can listen to this episode via Lingthusiasm.com, Soundcloud, RSS, Apple Podcasts/iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also download an mp3 via the Soundcloud page for offline listening.

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Lingthusiasm is on Bluesky, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Mastodon, and Tumblr. Email us at contact [at] lingthusiasm [dot] com

Gretchen is on Bluesky as @GretchenMcC and blogs at All Things Linguistic.

Lauren is on Bluesky as @superlinguo and blogs at Superlinguo.

Lingthusiasm is created by Gretchen McCulloch and Lauren Gawne. Our senior producer is Claire Gawne, our production editor is Sarah Dopierala, our production assistant is Martha Tsutsui Billins, our editorial assistant is Jon Kruk, and our technical editor is Leah Velleman. Our music is ‘Ancient City’ by The Triangles.

not playing a game or not watching a series and still claiming to be a fan doesn’t always earn someone the title of a larper

sure, there are people who genuinely don’t care and piss everyone off to try and satisfy their egos and then it backfires because it is very obvious they aren’t interested at all

however, i think these ‘larp hunters’ need to consider people on the border

i will openly admit that i claim to be a fan of many things that i have never touched or have very limited knowledge on but i think i am still entitled to some sort of status as a fan because i dedicate time and effort to learning and exploring the community and genuinely enjoy consuming the media

i believe that things like watching gameplay and even just learning about something purely through reading a wiki page or following a blog or watching deep dives on youtube can make you a fan. as long as it's just not one interaction but you take time to immerse yourself, it generally shouldn't matter how

some of my takes:

you don't need to own the video game to be a fan of it

manga fans don't need to always watch the anime and vice versa

you can like a band just for their music and claim to be a fan, you don't need to know all their names, backstories and what brand of underwear they wore in 1977

you're allowed to dislike parts of a series or book or show or movie that you really like

you don't need merch to be a "true fan"

you shouldn't have to flex to prove you are a fan

people shouldn't be hated for genuinely enjoying things that are mainstream, sometimes things remain obscure because it doesn't appeal to the general public and it shouldn't be forced upon anyone to like it

the opposite is true, just because something appeals to a really large audience doesn't mean that there aren't gonna be people who just say that it just isn't for them (this is different than haters)

anybody in a community should be open to being educated and criticism. a newbie may have more insight than a vet, a vet will most likely know more than a newbie. there is no excuse for being a sour person if there is no reason to

people NEED to stop fighting for the title of biggest fan. i get flexing the fact if you're an og but it should not be held above people's heads like it is now

i find it so upsetting that you genuinely can't just do what you want without getting so many accusations about things that genuinely don't matter

i think most of this stuff is pretty logical and common knowledge but a lot of people just don't seem to get it

You've completed a piece of art. Digital, physical, written, crochet or knit, sculpted, anything really, let's say it doesn't matter. You go to post it in the art channel of a discord server, but see someone else has just then posted a piece as well.