You don’t have to answer this, but I saw someone say that the difference between Alma and Celine is that Alma apologized and actively repents for mistakes to her family whereas Celine never did by the end of the movie. The person does like as a character for what she represents in terms of generational trauma, but will never view her as good person because of what she did to Rumi. The only way they’ll ever change their mind is if she actively apologizes and repents like Alma did to her family.
I can understand their view point, and know that Celine did hurt Rumi, but is it truly forgiveness that makes a good person? I know you enjoy and can understand both characters, so I was wondering on how you feel about this being what separates Celine from Alma in terms of it means to be a good person.
Does Repentance Make A Person Good?
While yes, the difference between Alma and Celine is that one apologised and the other did not, I don't think it's fair to believe that Celine as a character wouldn't be repentant for her actions.
It's also not a fair comparison as both character's roles in their stories are different. See, neither of them are the villains, but rather they act as one of the forces that creates and drives already existing conflicts.
In Alma's case, her own grief and duty to her husband's sacrifice is what keeps her bound to the town's people. In her view, to not give her all in helping the town is to sort of dishonour her husband and his death. It's why she pushed her family to do the same, to put the people above themselves. They were the ones with these supernatural gifts, so what better way than to share in these blessings, even if it came at a cost to their own health. To Alma, Pedro's death led to the creation of the miracle, so it's only right in her eyes to constantly give back to the town, an act of remembrance, and perhaps, a way to distract herself from the grief. Her trauma and grief refuse to let her see another way.
For Celine, her duty first and foremost is as a hunter. In all her life and in all her experiences, these demons she's fought are the enemy, they have never proven to her otherwise. She's a trained soldier, and it's her job to protect the people as one of the honmoon's hunters. So when this baby, born of both human and demon, is suddenly entrusted to her, an internal conflict must have taken place. On one hand, this infant is Miyeong's precious child, a life that she values and loves, but on the other, Rumi is a spawn of these demons that have only been killers in her eyes. Celine herself has said that she swore to protect all that was left of Miyeong, and in that moment, she gave up her duty as a hunter. To protect Rumi is to potentially sacrifice the state of the world at large, after all, demons themselves try to break through the honmoon, while hunters use their voices to strengthen it. To be both can either bring a great calamity, or it might be the biggest blessing in disguise.
Celine, at this point, has thrown out all her teachings. She made the biggest wager of her life in keeping Rumi alive. This came with teaching Rumi to cover her skin, but even here, this action was not born out of hatred for the girl, or done as an act of control, but rather, it was Celine's way of trying to protect Rumi. She does not believe the world as it is to be a safe place for Rumi to expose her skin, and can you really blame her? There's unheard of variables involved that Celine had no choice but to try and plan for.
In both cases, neither Celine nor Alma are the primary conflicts, but they are the ones to drive it. Mirabel not getting a gift was not Alma's fault, and Rumi being born of both worlds was not Celine's.
The story of Encanto surrounds the life that was rebuilt after the displacement of the people due to the civil war. There will inevitably be ghosts of that trauma ingrained into Alma and her actions.
But it was these very actions that caused Casita to fall, in the way Alma always tried to cover the cracks of the family, to force their problems on the back burner, and keep appearances up for the citizens. Her sole focus was in the town, not her family. This home was built on an already crumbling foundation. The invasion was not her fault, but her actions that came afterwards, even in that time of peace, certainly did not help.
Similarly, the conflict in kpdh comes from the demons. What they do and how they shape the storyline is not on Celine, but it explains her actions towards Rumi. The villains of this story are active– unlike in Encanto, demons still attack the fans, they still steal souls at the cost of human life. And besides Jinu, none of the other demons seem remorseful, sure they may be afraid of Gwi Ma, but from what we know, they do not regret their actions. An example of this is when Rumi tries asking one if Gwi Ma was controlling them, only for the demon to continue in trying to attack her. We, as the audience, also don't know how these demons came to be or how many of them are like Jinu. Nonetheless, they are the primary villains, with Rumi's spreading patterns being the central conflict in the story.
Celine has around 2 minutes of screen time, but her lessons are what haunts Rumi, even when she no longer has that major role in Rumi's life. But it's this one ideal of hiding the patterns that drive Rumi's shame. This is different from Alma, who is actively involved in the story, acting as the matriarch, and silencing her family's stresses. The way she refuses to acknowledge Bruno's disappearance or listen to Mirabel's warnings about Casita's cracks is what worsens the miracle, ultimately causing everything to fall apart.
It is only in the ashes can new life begin.
Only when the house collapses and Mirabel runs away does Alma see the errors of her ways, and only here does she finally accept that her family and their wellbeing are also important. That she isn't disrespecting her husband by not constantly working for the town. And it's only when Rumi truly accepts both sides of herself can the honmoon be rewoven. The old one was built off of hiding their faults and fears, something that must have been ingrained into the hunters somewhere along the line.
Grief changes a person, sometimes drastically, and this is central to both women.
Mirabel and Rumi brought a new perspective to both Alma and Celine. These characters can do this because they don't have the trauma that their matriarchs faced.
Does this all mean that neither women are good?
People can do harmful things, but in their heart of hearts, they mean well. The way they act, as in Alma and Celine's cases, are due to previous events in their lives. Both women only wanted what was best for the people around them. But this came at the cost of those they love.
This does not erase the love. Tragically, even if the love was there, it could not have changed the outcome.
The love they held was skewed, it was twisted and shaped by the grief that these characters experienced. It made them hardened into these mindsets that ultimately harmed the main characters.
But they are not inherently bad people. They are not villains in their stories. To say that would be to reduce them to black and white story arcs of cartoonish levels of evil, which they simply are not. They did bad things, yes, but that does not make them bad.
Focusing on Celine, in the climax of the story, as Rumi begs for her to fix her "mistake," Celine absolutely fumbles. She could not be a hunter when it counted, even as the honmoon collapsed around her, and neither could she be a mother, as the girl she raised begs for death.
Rumi confronts Celine with shame that perhaps Celine did not even recognise she had– that she failed Rumi so terribly that the girl feels as though her life meant nothing.
Some have argued that when Celine says "I can't" to Rumi, she means that it's only her duty to Miyeong that prevents her from killing Rumi. I disagree with this point, after all, Miyeong is dead, killing baby Rumi would not change that fact. In the end, Celine may have raised Rumi because of a promise, but you can not tell me that she never grew to love this child. She can't kill Rumi even when the honmoon is actively falling apart because she loves her.
Well, what about Celine not being able to accept Rumi fully? I believe that Celine could not do this because of what she knows about demons. To accept the patterns running across Rumi's skin is to accept that demons can be good. And furthermore, as far as the audience knows, Rumi has never acted like those demons. She never has been inclined to steal souls or attack innocent lives. This may have driven Celine in her belief that the patterns are not who Rumi are, that maybe they can be gotten rid of, that she doesn't have to be associated with these creatures of evil. She only sees Rumi as human.
So, to answer your question, if forgiveness, or rather, repentance, makes someone good, I don't believe so.
The way a person acts, and their own belief system matters as well. To extend an apology to the one that you've hurt is an important way of showing that you've changed, but this action itself does not negate who you are as an individual. You can hurt someone in one aspect, but continue to be good in other ways. Similarly, you can be bad in one person's eyes, but good in another, is either perspective wrong? Again context matters.
Alma was not suddenly a good person only because she apologised, and Celine is not bad because she wasn't given the opportunity to. Either way, an apology does not absolve a person from facing the consequences of their actions. These characters are so human in their reactions, and in their responses to the situations around them. Good and bad do not exist as black and white, the circumstances and context of actions need to be considered.
