it does feel like there's a hole in my chest when i think of itty-bitty dick grayson whose world & self & way of life was so profoundly wrapped up in batman & robin. that was a baby!!! he brought so much joy to bruce's life. and he was resilient-and-hypercompetent-and-smart-and-funny-and-kind. it will never be like that again for either of them!!! i feel sick. no wonder bruce wayne is crazy. he has to live with this every day
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i think a key thing for most of the bats is that there has to be a certain flavour of assholery. like yes they're all kind and resilient and hopeful. and to gotham (& bruce), their presence is a relief. very much the full body sagging of what a tiny act of kindness can do for you... BUT. there has to be an element of abrasiveness that comes from being hyper-competent, prepared-for-all-kinds-of-doomsday-scenarios & personal projection that can often be myopic, especially with respect to each other. like, ofc there is a steady affection and undercurrent of love (& even fealty) but they're all such perfectionists & so terrified of being perceived as failures... it can't be easy
I have a slight favor to ask of you, hope you don't mind!
As you know, every character has their own flaws, even our boy Dickie G…
Can you tell me what made you first like him? Which characteristics do you love about him? And what are the ones that make you want to pull your hair out of frustration/dislike?
I just LOVE reading your opinion on anything! You've got a way with words that really touches my heart & soul
Thanks in advance! <333
hello! you're too kind <3
so my first real investment in dick grayson was when i saw him in the tv show titans, which i'm afraid, while not very good, is actually kind of fantastic (derogatory). there are these two episodes in season 2 — bruce wayne and atonement — very aptly titled, i know — that had me going a little bit insane. dick spending an entire episode hallucinating bruce — who serves as his conscience, his jailer, his absolution, his critic — while he's going on a guilt-fuelled bender... that was crazy actually. one god of a man who serves every role in his life. biblical. meanwhile, in atonement, when dick is finally honest and owns up to his mistakes, he's disparaged and abandoned. what does he do to fix this? immediately turn himself in to cops in the hope that someone can punish him the way he thinks he deserves. what a freak. i fell in love with him instantly.
i started actually reading comics with outsiders 2003 because i found out that donna dying in the show was based on actual comic lore and from that point onwards, it was a mixture of reading his solos, new teen titans and misc comics focused on dick & bruce's relationship, before i eventually branched out to other characters.
he's my beautiful princess with so many disorders. cbt would not fix him; it would, in fact, make him worse. he's the most resilient guy in the world. a terrible happened to him and he made it his calling to prevent that from happening to someone else, under the guidance of a man who understood his grief & loss intimately. together, they forged a myth so unparalleled that everybody who came after is still paying for being part of his legacy.
he's known the spotlight since he was a child. his first step was on sawdust. he was never going to be normal. he's innately a performer and his showmanship is so goddamn convincing that he has trouble identifying what's real about him, even to himself. at the same time, his desire to help and his sincerity are so earnest that it almost echoes into being a thing of disbelief; how can he be so merciful and kind despite everything that life has thrown at him? he's so good.
he's hypercompetent and chasing an unachievable ideal of perfection; he can never meet it and he hates himself for it. he's cruel when he feels cornered. he wants someone to affirm his self-hate and nobody is ever willing to do it because everybody is caught in his orbit. he can lie to entire teams of superheroes without batting an eye. he can threaten a mentor with kryptonite and nobody ever doubts that he wasn't bluffing. look, this is only a man.
you think you know devotion? nobody in the world is doing devotion like dick grayson. i'd die for you, bruce. i have more faith in you than anyone. i see it, now. clearly. my greatest fear. not that he would fall, but that i would fail him. he's a bird, aspiring to freedom but he will never walk out of his cage. he can't. he doesn't know how to. just abandon you? sorry, i wasn't raised that way. he feels like the child of an alcoholic. he looks up to bruce almost as if he were a god. he's scared of bruce's judgement in a god-fearing way.
his twin swords of failing and falling. duty and devotion. he's a guy who's primarily characterized by his freedom and agency but he gets mind-controlled every alternate wednesday. he's obsessive and paranoid but he wants to give people second chances. he can be so merciful. he's the most intense guy you'll ever meet. he moves through life like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders but he's poetry in motion. he's my most special guy ever <3
hihi! sorry if someone has asked this before, im new here. but i was wondering, most of the dickroy fics ive read are from roys perspective and while i love them all and im so grateful for all the talented authors (including you!^-^) i was thinking, how do you think the pinning would look like from dicks side and what feelings do you think he would harbor towards roy through the years theyve known each other?
what was it ethel cain said in nettles? to love me is to suffer me. for dick grayson, this is both what he believes about himself and what ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy when you're someone in his life except one mister bruce wayne. this is to say, from dick's pov, it would be... mostly unbearable. famously unable to love something without it hurting him (and the recipients of his affection).
but to get real, i think a lot would depend on the era. like in the outsiders era, his feelings for roy are so wrapped up in the twin mingling of his grief and self-hatred that the only way he can love roy is with a gun to roy's heart. like i said in my latest dickroy fic:
It’s rare when he can’t read Roy with perfect clarity; usually, it’s because Dick doesn’t want to be presumptuous of his own estimation in Roy’s book. Tonight, all he wants is the press of Roy against him, no amnesty or accusations, because he lost all his nerve when they buried her, and he’s not brave enough to ask, How can you still trust me?Â
on the contrary, in the early teen titans era, it would be a softer thing. the sweetness of a teenage crush — think thoughtful gestures & affection that don't translate well because roy has poor self-esteem. and because... dick's attention can feel blinding like the sun — but not just in the way that it's bright and warm; it sears and bleaches you down to your bones.
moreover, his relationships with kory & babs have such large places in his life that i truly believe... for the longest time, he wouldn't even recognize that what he feels for roy is so much bigger than the affection & appreciation one can feel for their childhood best friend. as the wise @/bigdvmnhero once seminally characterized dick grayson in their gorgeous spyral fic:
Was this kinship, then? There was no gun, no gauntlet or secret spy gizmo that could rival the intensity of her conviction, Dick knew that now, except for what he always had, inexplicable and ordinary as his own hands. A battle of devotion was a battle Dick was always going to win.
once he does realize, i think it's a coin flip between shying away from acting on it or committing fully... both of which aren't without their pitfalls.
for the former, dick would lie to himself, saying that what he and roy have is enough. vaguely and sometimes deliberately, painfully oblivious to roy's feelings because their dynamic has always been flirty and with true aim. he's terrified that wanting roy so badly is just going to hurt them both; dick isn't supposed to want anything, not like this, not when he'll just ruin it.
for the latter, it would be a lot of adrenaline and single-minded intensity from dick, which is its own kind of warning to roy. roy won't ever doubt dick's heart but he can't bring himself to trust dick's feelings. dick is the most loyal guy you know until he's cutting you down to avoid his neurosis or running away from a bruce-shaped shadow.
either way, it wouldn't be an easy thing. a lot of pushing and pulling away before they reach an equilibrium, but the heart of dick grayson loving roy harper is faith. what was it shara mccallum wrote in madwoman? in you and me resides a history of faith. dick grayson eloquently said this in outsiders #11 himself:
You took one in the heart. If that isn't a check in the retirement column, I don't know what is. But if you're asking me if I think you've lost your edge, or if I think you shouldn't be on this team, or... if I wouldn't put my own life in your hands — man... there is no one... no one I'd rather have fighting at my side than you.
do u think dick acted in or out of character during rise of arsenal? a mix of both?
i'm thinking he had recently lost bruce, so i can see him being Mr. Stoicâ„¢, as he even said "this is why batman doesn't get close to people, you get hurt again and again and again" to donna while roy was in a coma and lian had just died, but i'm thinking abt leaving roy at virgil house, their fights where dick and donna kept trying to bring roy home when they, as the justice league, fought roy when he was with Slade's "Evil Titans," and such.
just wondering if u have any thoughts, etc!!
hmm, this one's tough but yeah, you're right, it's probably a mix of both for me. more thoughts below the cut:
starting off with this supremely vivid moment, dick crashing out is in character, imo — especially when you consider how blackest night happened around the same time & dick has had to deal with the resurrected corpses of his parents, too.
from titans (2008) #23
i think having that wound ripped open, compounded with the sheer devastation of losing bruce is already more than enough to make him want to give his best shot at being emotionally distant but being crippled by his grief.
from titans (2008) #23
plus, i don't think you can ignore that most of roy's arc happens pretty soon after dick becomes batman and apart from losing bruce (which is already something he doesn't know how to deal with), there has been a lot of discord in gotham already. dick didn't want to be batman and, then he had no other choice but to be batman.
from batman (1940) #687
his relationships with his siblings/other vigilantes are terrible — think of cass in batman & the outsiders (2007) #13-14, jason in battle for the cowl (2009), tim in red robin (2009) #1-4, damian in the early batman & robin (2009) issues. so, everything has already been priming him to be cold, at best and reactionary, at worst.
as for the rest of it, titans (2008) as a comic... is nebulous in its characterization. moreover, rise of arsenal & cry for justice themselves are absolutely terrible iffy in terms of characterization for roy so by sheer transitivity, it all becomes somewhat ooc. the bad art doesn't help.
like, i support terrible things happening to characters... that's fun! that kind of storytelling can serve a purpose when it's done well but rise of arsenal is just... badly executed and requires more than the necessary suspension of disbelief when you're reading superhero comics. lowkey, this is the only redeeming moment in the comic for me:
from justice league: the rise of arsenal (2010) #3
to get into the virgil house bit... it's a confusing choice by editorial, imo, because to bring in dinah — the person who sat through roy's withdrawal the first time and pretty much saved roy from himself, the person whom roy himself credits as saving his life — is solid. they're both very important to each other (think of roy being there for dinah when they lost ollie, dinah being there for him when vandal savage threatened lian, their time on the justice league together). narratively, it has meaning.
from justice league: the rise of arsenal (2010) #3
but then you have the direct comparison to arkham and it gets iffy, again. of course, neither dick nor dinah can feasibly be there for roy through every moment of his grief but to just dump him here and hope he comes to the realization that he needs to be clean... when he's lost his daughter and his arm... when he blames himself... it just doesn't work. it's also a disservice to depicting addiction.
moreover, roy hasn't murdered anyone (yet). ollie was the one who killed prometheus. roy only kills the electrocutioner in #4.
from justice league: the rise of arsenal (2010) #3
i always assumed calling the place "virgil house" was a poorly done, on the nose allusion to dante's inferno — where virgil is supposed to guide dante through hell and generally represents human reasoning, especially in the face of sin. once again, this attempt at making the comic meaningful falls short.
besides, dick is fully aware of roy's capabilities & skills. what makes him think roy won't just break out? which he does, by the way. in the very next issue.
from justice league: the rise of arsenal (2010) #4
it's not in character for dick to fail to account for this. you'd think he'd be even more paranoid, especially when you think about the fact that the sole reason prometheus was even able to instigate the destruction of star city (& associated devastation) was because martian manhunter was murdered by libra; consequently, prometheus broke free of his psychic loop and wanted revenge on the JL.
i also don't think donna would've left roy alone just because he lashed out at her in grief. now, the way he lashed out at her was out of character, too... he would never call her a whore... so it's neither here, nor there.
from justice league: the rise of arsenal (2010) #2
but we have multiple instances of donna being adamant that she and the titans help roy through his grief and be there for him... so it doesn't add up. which is something that becomes more and more common through some of the comics from this era.
as for titans: villains for hire, the less said about it, the better. i do not remember much of it beyond its attempt to capitalize on the popularity of teams like the suicide squad. it's tone-deaf, banal & one-dimensional. we get a few good dickdonnaroy moments from it but even those are not enough to make up for how much of a slog the comic is.
dick instinctively trusting roy to help him against clayface even when they're on opposing sides, though — that's a real in character moment:
from titans (2008) #30
him constantly reaching out to roy while simultaneously not shying away from trying to stop him from doing what dick thinks is wrong... is also very much in character, i think. he's a real pain in the ass like that.
from titans (2008) annual
tldr/to conclude: a lot of the storylines from this era are a disservice to the characters so it's fair to say that identifying moments of characters being ooc is a bit nebulous but generally, dick was a mix of both in and out of character! hope this helps <3
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I'm all about nuance and letting people Enjoy whatever their hearts desire except when I come across the idea of Jason being friends with Roy or Kory. In any form or manner, no, they would Not
very few moments post-bruce's return from the timestream that i actually like but they kinda went off with steph slapping bruce in the face. like yeah she should get to do that again actually