gwen was never treated like a 'proper' avenger until her death. Cool. Cool. Cool. Yeah. Cool. Awesome. Im gonna tear a hole through a brick wall

#batman#bruce wayne#dick grayson#tim drake#batfam#dc fanart#batfamily




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gwen was never treated like a 'proper' avenger until her death. Cool. Cool. Cool. Yeah. Cool. Awesome. Im gonna tear a hole through a brick wall

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The Essentials Of A Robin
Long-term narrative around growing up. The mantle is not meant to be forever, you grow into it and through it and eventually out of it, even though it will hurt to lose what it means to be Robin. Just like growing up hurts.
Some form of anger issues and loss of parental figures. If you do not have these when you take the name they will come free with the suit! Does not need to be literal orphaning, but one must be angry with the world and in need of a parental figure to help guide that pain.
Ability to disobey Batman. Fucking essential. You need to be able to look that man in the eyes and say "yeah okay" when he tells you to stay home and then show up and save his stupid ass.
Snark.
Inscrutable relationship with Batman that only another Robin could ever understand.
2009's Dark Wolverine Vol.1 #87 cover by artist Stéphanie Hans. Source
okay so he's like parasocial
Magneto and professor x doomed yaoi but deeper than that even. You were the first person to truly connect with me intellectually but we have such fundamental differences we canât be anything but enemies now. Having/needing/wanting someone to challenge you. To stand up to you and call out the inaccuracies and bullshit in your thinking that you KNOW are there but no one ever has the guts/patience/care to point it out. Approaching the same problem from two angles and creating something better and stronger altogether when combined. Watching that fundamental difference becoming more and more apparent over time. The arguments no longer build a stronger one. They tear down not only the argument itself but the relationship. Points become barbed attacks on the person. Hating the other because they refuse to see your point of view, pitying them because you know they could never, not with that upbringing. Remembering what used to be; building empires from words. Ideas bricks and collaboration the mortar sticking it together. Standing together in the collapsed ruins of that friendship, the mortar crumbled to dust, hoping that maybe this time theyâll see and understand. Knowing that you are doomed to orbit each other on opposite sides of a circle, locked in the gravity of the world you have created between you. Unable to build a bridge across.

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heeyyy, I know you're busy, so feel free to answer this whenever you want/can. why don't you like gcs? i don't read their comics so I'm curious
Hiii thank you for asking đ
There is so much, âGotham City Sirensâ has ruined the complexity of their relationships with Selina, prior to the New 52, and is pretty much an industry plant friendship/team that made everything less interesting and usually mischaracterizes or abuses Selina for it. The name and playboy esq covers are the only iconic thing about it, and for some unfortunate reason itâs created the false perception that Harley, Ivy and Selina were friends and had always been, when in reality, before the New 52, they were NEVER friends.
Catwoman's first interaction with Harley involved her slicing Selinaâs throat, drugging her, and trying to get her to kill Jim Gordon. For no particular reason.
Catwoman (1993) #82
Catwoman (1993) #83
Of course during the original Hush, Poison Ivy brainwashes Catwoman and forces her to commit crimes for her which leads to Selina almost getting killed by Killer Croc, then Harley Quinn shoots her đ
Hush #3
THIS is toxic yuri.
I donât hate the concept of Catwoman occasionally teaming up with rouges, or being friendly with them, but Ivy and Selina had real moral conflict too. No matter how far back we go in Selinaâs history, even as a villain, she isnât down with hurting innocent people. Harley and Ivy have different morals.
One of the more interesting Poison Ivy/Catwoman stories is from Catwoman (1993) #57, set during No Manâs Land. Where we see that theres a lot about Ivy that Selina admires, but she still wont let her hurt Gotham.
I mean Is this not already far more interesting than the âbestieâ dynamic??
Following this and Hush, their relationship was shown to be on bad terms in the beginning of GCS. The âpartnershipâ between the sirens was always meant to be temporary because Poison Ivy and Catwoman didnât trust each other and Selina had ulterior motives for teaming up in the first place. Not to mention this whole book is just âCatwoman gets tortured, drugged, brainwashed and betrayedâ đ
But for some reason people think itâs a peak concept and want them all to be bestie weed smoking girlfriends bc they donât have any context except the name and sexy covers. Who needs complexity?
The abuse is non stop in Sirens. Harley and Ivy torture Selina over Batmanâs identity
Gotham City Sirens (2009) #2
Then she getâs kidnapped and mentally abused AGAIN for Bruceâs identity by Shrike and an old student of Raâs Al Ghul. Because of this, Talia manages to convince an extremely gullible Zatanna, who was already in trouble for messing with memories, that the CATWOMAN the greatest thief in the world, is too easy to capture and needs to have the identity of the only man she loves (who VOLUNTARILY told her mind u) forcibly taken from her.
No, Talia doesnât actually gaf abt âprotecting Bruceâs identityâ all of a sudden. This is specifically about eliminating a romantic rival and using a member of the JL to do it. Stupid.
Hating Gotham Sirens truly isnât enough I need Selina get a gun and kill all the bitches in this book đ
It wasnât enough that they already tried to destroy ALL of Selinaâs decades of character development by saying she was only a good person because Zatanna âfixedâ her, they have to go ahead and rip away her memories of Bruce. Even the retcon of the spell only working because of Selinaâs already existing good potential makes me FURIOUS bc what do you MEAN âShe just couldnât?â Without the mind theft???
CATWOMAN STOLE THINGS! And was NEVER on an evil team. WHY is she in the same conversation as villains like DR LIGHT my god why the fuck would the justice league want to mind wipe a young thief from Gotham this shit is so stupid
Anyway Zatanna, goes through with it againâŠ.
Zatanna then finds a memory of Selina and Talia that leads her to discovering sheâs been played. About time.
They scrap for a second and Zatanna zaps her like a bug, Talia breaks her nose, Zatanna punches her in the face, and then Talia randomly fires missiles at Selina đ I hate this book man
It exploded and we see Ivy and Harley pretend to care for a second before itâs revealed sheâs alive.
Zatanna returns Selinaâs memories. But also offers to wipe her mind of Bruce with her consent this time. Selina rejects the offer, and things end rough between the two of them. Selina should have at least been allowed to curse everyone out tbh
Near the end of the series, we get to a point of what I think a good representation of the Sirens relationships should be like. Harley and Selina bond briefly over betrayal and love and are friendly enough. Selina and Ivy have a contentious alliance that ultimately breaks down.
After everything sheâs been through, Selina âbetraysâ her âfriendsâ and has them put in Arkham. Ivy is pissed and breaks herself and Harley out to kill Selina for revenge. All of this culminates into Selina explaining that She is the only reason the Bat hasnât dealt with them himself and shes done nothing but try to help them, and we get this moment where Selina herself explains why âGotham sirensâ never made sense and was NEVER gonna work.
It ends with Selina once again dying on the cross for them as she lets them get away after attacking her and distracts Batman. If these two are supposed to be Selinaâs âweed smoking girlfriendsâ as fanon says, then she is in an abusive ass relationship đ
And modern Sirens content? Poison Ivy has been so defanged, Harley is Harley, and god help any character written around her, and Selina getâs mischaracterized as a selfish woman only out for herself (hq show Selina) While dc tries to give the anti-hero âvillain with a heartâ treatment to Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn.
Now apparently theyâre going on space adventures in the new siren book. Weâve already known Dc has lost the plot when writing for Harley, but what are Ivy and Selina doing in space?! Why do we have to pause Catwomanâs already struggling solo for this slop that absolutely no one will be reading for the story đ It benefits none of these characters and only serves to regress Ivy and Catwoman once actually compelling relationship more.
Gotham City Sirens, they can never make me like you.
please only answer if you read comic books!
Have you ever DNF'd a comic series?
yes
no
results
if yes, i'd love it if you tagged or commented the title :3
*DNF = did not finish/abandoned purposefully (not something you forgot to finish, for example)