#comics posting

Long-term narrative around growing up. The mantle is not meant to be forever, you grow into it and through it and eventually out of it, even though it will hurt to lose what it means to be Robin. Just like growing up hurts.

Some form of anger issues and loss of parental figures. If you do not have these when you take the name they will come free with the suit! Does not need to be literal orphaning, but one must be angry with the world and in need of a parental figure to help guide that pain.

Ability to disobey Batman. Fucking essential. You need to be able to look that man in the eyes and say "yeah okay" when he tells you to stay home and then show up and save his stupid ass.

Snark.

Hiii thank you for asking 💗

There is so much, “Gotham City Sirens” has ruined the complexity of their relationships with Selina, prior to the New 52, and is pretty much an industry plant friendship/team that made everything less interesting and usually mischaracterizes or abuses Selina for it. The name and playboy esq covers are the only iconic thing about it, and for some unfortunate reason it’s created the false perception that Harley, Ivy and Selina were friends and had always been, when in reality, before the New 52, they were NEVER friends.

Catwoman's first interaction with Harley involved her slicing Selina’s throat, drugging her, and trying to get her to kill Jim Gordon. For no particular reason.

Catwoman (1993) #82

Catwoman (1993) #83

Of course during the original Hush, Poison Ivy brainwashes Catwoman and forces her to commit crimes for her which leads to Selina almost getting killed by Killer Croc, then Harley Quinn shoots her 😭

Hush #3

THIS is toxic yuri.

I don’t hate the concept of Catwoman occasionally teaming up with rouges, or being friendly with them, but Ivy and Selina had real moral conflict too. No matter how far back we go in Selina’s history, even as a villain, she isn’t down with hurting innocent people. Harley and Ivy have different morals.

One of the more interesting Poison Ivy/Catwoman stories is from Catwoman (1993) #57, set during No Man’s Land. Where we see that theres a lot about Ivy that Selina admires, but she still wont let her hurt Gotham.

I mean Is this not already far more interesting than the “bestie” dynamic??

Following this and Hush, their relationship was shown to be on bad terms in the beginning of GCS. The “partnership” between the sirens was always meant to be temporary because Poison Ivy and Catwoman didn’t trust each other and Selina had ulterior motives for teaming up in the first place. Not to mention this whole book is just “Catwoman gets tortured, drugged, brainwashed and betrayed” 😭

But for some reason people think it’s a peak concept and want them all to be bestie weed smoking girlfriends bc they don’t have any context except the name and sexy covers. Who needs complexity?

The abuse is non stop in Sirens. Harley and Ivy torture Selina over Batman’s identity

Gotham City Sirens (2009) #2

Then she get’s kidnapped and mentally abused AGAIN for Bruce’s identity by Shrike and an old student of Ra’s Al Ghul. Because of this, Talia manages to convince an extremely gullible Zatanna, who was already in trouble for messing with memories, that the CATWOMAN the greatest thief in the world, is too easy to capture and needs to have the identity of the only man she loves (who VOLUNTARILY told her mind u) forcibly taken from her.

No, Talia doesn’t actually gaf abt “protecting Bruce’s identity” all of a sudden. This is specifically about eliminating a romantic rival and using a member of the JL to do it. Stupid.

Hating Gotham Sirens truly isn’t enough I need Selina get a gun and kill all the bitches in this book 😭

It wasn’t enough that they already tried to destroy ALL of Selina’s decades of character development by saying she was only a good person because Zatanna “fixed” her, they have to go ahead and rip away her memories of Bruce. Even the retcon of the spell only working because of Selina’s already existing good potential makes me FURIOUS bc what do you MEAN “She just couldn’t?” Without the mind theft???

CATWOMAN STOLE THINGS! And was NEVER on an evil team. WHY is she in the same conversation as villains like DR LIGHT my god why the fuck would the justice league want to mind wipe a young thief from Gotham this shit is so stupid

Anyway Zatanna, goes through with it again….

Zatanna then finds a memory of Selina and Talia that leads her to discovering she’s been played. About time.

They scrap for a second and Zatanna zaps her like a bug, Talia breaks her nose, Zatanna punches her in the face, and then Talia randomly fires missiles at Selina 😭 I hate this book man

It exploded and we see Ivy and Harley pretend to care for a second before it’s revealed she’s alive.

Zatanna returns Selina’s memories. But also offers to wipe her mind of Bruce with her consent this time. Selina rejects the offer, and things end rough between the two of them. Selina should have at least been allowed to curse everyone out tbh

Near the end of the series, we get to a point of what I think a good representation of the Sirens relationships should be like. Harley and Selina bond briefly over betrayal and love and are friendly enough. Selina and Ivy have a contentious alliance that ultimately breaks down.

After everything she’s been through, Selina “betrays” her “friends” and has them put in Arkham. Ivy is pissed and breaks herself and Harley out to kill Selina for revenge. All of this culminates into Selina explaining that She is the only reason the Bat hasn’t dealt with them himself and shes done nothing but try to help them, and we get this moment where Selina herself explains why “Gotham sirens” never made sense and was NEVER gonna work.

It ends with Selina once again dying on the cross for them as she lets them get away after attacking her and distracts Batman. If these two are supposed to be Selina’s “weed smoking girlfriends” as fanon says, then she is in an abusive ass relationship 😭

And modern Sirens content? Poison Ivy has been so defanged, Harley is Harley, and god help any character written around her, and Selina get’s mischaracterized as a selfish woman only out for herself (hq show Selina) While dc tries to give the anti-hero “villain with a heart” treatment to Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn.

Now apparently they’re going on space adventures in the new siren book. We’ve already known Dc has lost the plot when writing for Harley, but what are Ivy and Selina doing in space?! Why do we have to pause Catwoman’s already struggling solo for this slop that absolutely no one will be reading for the story 😭 It benefits none of these characters and only serves to regress Ivy and Catwoman once actually compelling relationship more.