What do you think of this video?
https://youtu.be/LBncocnAAVg?is=Z1Dbd7DI5-ZLcOCn
I remember watching it at some point way back in the day, let me give it a re-listen...
2:17 he says socrates wrote smth about how hot alcibiades was. We don't have any writting of socrates or any mention of socrates writting anything. But I do apreciate when we all agree that they definitely had sex.
3:17 The fleet that left for sicily was not the biggest navy ever at the time, nor was it the largest athenians had ever deployed.
3:25 trying to take over sicily wasn't "fuck the consequences", athens had always had its sights on sicily. For someone who had dreams of world domination like alcibiades, it was an ambitious but strategically sound move, that, had it succeeded, could've significantly altered european history.
3:30 It wasn't Alcibiades' good looks that made him very persuasive. He was a very good orator, he was loved by the army and he had personal allies from all over the place. The sicilian expedition was not inherently a "very very bad idea". "convincing people to go along with very bad ideas" was NOT "something he did a lot". His advice to athenians, to spartans and to persians was almost always sound and beneficial except for when he wanted to deliberately sabotage stuff, like the spartan embassy he tricked into making a fool of themselves, or sabotaging the athenian/persian negotiations he was the middleman for by making up extreme demands.
3:50 alcibiades had joint command of the fleet along with lamachus and Nicias.
4:12 In Thucydides it is quite clear that alcibiades had nothing to do with the mutilation of the herms, he wasn't named amongst the ones responsible and he was never put on trial for it. He knew he was innocent which is why he even begged to be put on trial right there and then before the expedition. He was recalled from sicily to stand trial for the profanation of the eleysinian mysteries, not the herms. He also did not go straight to sparta upon being recalled, he stayed in argos until he heard news that his trial had happened, his possessions all confiscated and that he had been sentenced to death, at which point he crashed out and went to sparta.
5:06 The story he tells about the kid Alcibiades and timaea potentially/allegedly had is made up for dramatic effect ("the same light skin as alcibiades" is funny because we have.no.description. of alcibiades.none.) Plutarch doesn't say anything about the kid's appearance betraying who his father was, Timaea herself, in plutarch, is very open about who the father is.
but we also can't know for sure if Leotychidas, that kid, was actually alcibiades' or even if alcibiades actually had any such relation with queen timaea. Of course it's a fun story, of course the bit about how he "just did it to have his descendants be kings of sparta" from plutarch is peak megalomaniac behavior, but it's still an anecdote and we can't know how true it is.
5:25 Alcibiades had left sparta on a sparta-issued ship to go do some chores around islands and towns near/at asia minor/at persia. while he was there, still on the spartan side, orders from sparta came to have him assasinated. Not arrested. The most likely reason for that, and the personal dislike king agis had for alcibiades, was that alcibiades had become too popular, and thus too dangerous to those who already had the political power, in sparta.
5:33. He became an advisor to a specific persian satrap called tissaphernes, who had offered him a safe place to be in his court (because people were literally. trying to get him killed)
6:31 He was welcomed back to athens as a hero despite everything because he spent like 2 years after his initial recall and reinstatement as a general at sea winning battles and taking cities for athens left and right and almost restoring the former power of its navy. and then he decided it's safe to return to athens and even then he was afraid when he returned until he saw his friends waiting for him at the port. And also the athenians had understood very well that they had messed up with how they had treated him. And no he didn't "have it so easy" because he was beautiful. Nevermind ho wbeautiful adn charismatic he was, the Athenians were ready to serve him death tea because witnesses who could very well have lied, led by his political enemies, said he profaned a religious ritual.
7:00 The spartan fleet during the battle of notium was not necessarily stronger than the athenian fleet. their number of ships was almost equal. In general the spartan fleet was never better than the athenian fleet because if there was one thing athenians could do was fight with ships exceptionally well. The problem was that the athenian fleet didn't have money, while the spartans were backed by persians more during that period. Lysander also refused to come out and fight the athenian fleet while alcibiades was there. Which is why alcibiades parked the fleet somewhere and told them to stay put while he went to phocaea, leaving, not any second in command, but the helmsman of his own ship, in charge of the fleet, which was a terrible move according to everyone, but maybe, and this is completely my own theory here, shows the trust issues he had at the time. He picked a guy that wasn't qualified but was probably close to him/a friend, thinking he can rely on him.
7:47 During the battle of notium athens lost about 20 ships out of the 80+ it had at the time. that was FAR from the entire fleet, and while a significant defeat, they could have recovered. But it was catastrophic for athens for a worse reason: it resulted in the removal of alcibiades from the position of general, because athenians were already not trusting him 100% and had not forgiven him 100%, and also he had made such a reputation for himself of being always victorious that they thought he hadn't cared/tried hard enough and that he had been careless with his command of the fleet by leaving it. And of course as he correctly mentions in the video this was amplified by his poltiical enemies like everything from all the way back to the herms, and all the way until well after his death, during the trials of his son.
8:38. The only mention we have of lysander involving himself with alcibiades' assasination is him not wanting to do it. He had to get ordered by those in charge back in sparta in order to go and ask pharnabazus to see to it.
9:02 the assasination is never mentioned to have happened in alcibiades' thracian fortress. He had abandoned thrace after the defeat at aegospotamoi (which is completely not mentioned in the video) because after athens was defeated he was unsafe there and was living in phrygia. While we do have the "alcibiades ran out naked with just a swrod" in the sources, we don't know if he managed to attack his assassins. The common story is that they had arrows and javelins so it's most likely that he didn't manage to reach anyone or protect himself.
9:22 "he only went down after he was truck by 15 arrows" now we're writting fanfiction, I don't think this is mentioned in any source ever.
I think Alcibiades' life only stands to lose when we try to sensationalize and embelish it, or twist things or spend way too much time laughing at haha he cucked the king haha statue penises. It's a fascinating story. Also this video was missing so many of his badass crazy moments. He was an olympic champion in the stupidest way possible. The night raid with like 30 guys. The escape from the persian prison. The "Arriving in the middle of battle and nobody knows whose side he's on". The fact that he acted more spartan than spartans while living there and generally morphed himself to fit in with those around him. The fact that he stopped a civil war single handedly. The tons of other anecdotes we have.
can you tell how normal I am about alcibiades.
