Is Achilles considered youthful? I read on some posts and sites that when someone finally grows a beard, they are now an adult. Is that why some people considered Achilles and Patroclus relationship a pederastic one? Because Achilles have no beard while Patroclus does? Does Patroclus actually have a beard?
Sorry if my questions are jumbled, i am quite confused on these two.
Absolutely Achilles was considered youthful. His fate was also to die young so that would mean he would die at the prime of his life. Most of the time the youth of Achilles is a massive part of his lore. Even future writers have commented on it, see for example my other reply on Neoptolemus
How old was Neo when he joined the Trojan War? That is a very good question! Honestly it is hard to estimate since we rarely ever have age
Yes, a beard is a symbol of maturity and it seems that even in the homeric poems the existence of a beard means that someone comes of age (see for example the orders that Odysseus left behind that Penelope is to rule in his place till Telemachus grows a beard). As I have mentioned briefly to my Odysseus age analysis:
So how old is Odysseus exactly? Many make speculations of his age, me included. Interestingly we have several hints in both art and the scr
the beard was by n large seen at individuals at their final 20s or early 30s. Maturity was definitely the age in the 30s. Now indeed Patroclus seems to be older than Achilles. He is depicted with a beard later or with the essence of a beard depending on the artist but it is not implied that he is a whole generation older either. The pederastic relations between them were mostly implied by future writers such as Plato or Plutarch to my knowledge (there are other sources of course) given that pederasty seems to be a cultural thing of later years than Homer's time although is hard to tell due to the lack of evidence. I am not sure how much we can speak on typical pederasty given that Patroclus was not probably THAT much older than Achilles let's say generation older or anything. And yes Patroclus is often depicted with a beard while at other times he doesn't have it. See for example my other reply here:
A question about visual arts this time Do you have any favorite classics artwork(s) that is Iliad related? Like ancient potteries of Homeri
So my estimation is that Patroclus is a few years older but not older than a decade than Achilles. I estimated Achilles to be around in his 20s when he enters the war and around in his mid-30s when he dies (I kinda insinuated that with his beard in my Achillochus one-shot fanfiction) while Patroclus could have been entering or already in his 30s at the beginning of the war and around his final 30s when he died. Achilles is also depicted bearded from time to time (see the link I sent you to my other answer. Exekias for example depicts him with beard as he plays with Ajax showing he has entered maturtity at that point) so that kinda makes me have this hypothesis.
I hope this helps! ^_^
